Solid lines are they safe?

[frank mccune]

    Hi:

    I "found" as set of .015"X60' solid lines in my attic and I am wondering if these are safe for sport flying.

    These lines were assembled with great skill and are like new.  They have been stored  on a large red plastic reel.  No kinks or bends are seen.

     I have been warned that these have a "single point failure" margin built into them.  I used to fly a Nobler on .015"x60' solid  lines in the old country with no problems.  I just broke a set of .012" lines with very little stress! Can one free flight  airplane! Not Lol!

                                                                                                             Tia,

                                                                                                             Frank

[Randy Ryan]

Well, I'm sure there will be disagreement, but I used solid lines, the same set, for a number of years flying various .35 size profile stunters in the 60's. I still have them but wouldn't use them now due to rust. I can't see any wear in the eyes, these were twisted and soft soldered, both major no-nos in today's accepted termination technique. I never had a problem except binding after not "unwinding" from maneuvers.

[Brett Buck]

   Hi:

    I "found" as set of .015"X60' solid lines in my attic and I am wondering if these are safe for sport flying.

    These lines were assembled with great skill and are like new.  They have been stored  on a large red plastic reel.  No kinks or bends are seen.

     I have been warned that these have a "single point failure" margin built into them.  I used to fly a Nobler on .015"x60' solid  lines in the old country with no problems.  I just broke a set of .012" lines with very little stress! Can one free flight  airplane! Not Lol!

   They are safe for sport flying if you keep them in good shape. They are a single point failure but they are generally much stronger than .015 stranded so you make up for the single pointedness by having more margin.

   I wouldn't use them for sport flying (or anything else) just because of the maintenance required to keep them from sticking but breaking (if in good shape) is not a concern.

   Brett

[M Spencer]

Theyre NOT suitable for 8 year olds . 

Clean , WD 40 , Dont Bunch unravelling twists , will go pig tailed , then youre shot . DONT KINK . Keep Tight Always.

IF theve gone LOOSE , youve got a SNARL . A good pull will wreck them . So Un thingoing them  requires PATIANCE & Cunning .

[Derek Barry]

   They are safe for sport flying if you keep them in good shape. They are a single point failure but they are generally much stronger than .015 stranded so you make up for the single pointedness by having more margin.

   I wouldn't use them for sport flying (or anything else) just because of the maintenance required to keep them from sticking but breaking (if in good shape) is not a concern.

   Brett

    Brett

After going back to braids for a couple years I think the upkeep is well worth the effort.

Derek

[Trostle]

Clean , WD 40 , Dont Bunch unravelling twists , will go pig tailed , then youre shot . DONT KINK . Keep Tight Always.

Putting any kind of oil on solid lines is bad advice.  If you want sticky lines, put oil on them.  The viscosity of the oil on solid lines is not a good thing.  Solids must be kept clean.  Use a solvent that leaves no residue.  Brake cleaning fluid works.  So does acetone.

Keith

[Steve Helmick]

    Hi:

    I "found" as set of .015"X60' solid lines in my attic and I am wondering if these are safe for sport flying.

    These lines were assembled with great skill and are like new.  They have been stored  on a large red plastic reel.  No kinks or bends are seen.

     I have been warned that these have a "single point failure" margin built into them.  I used to fly a Nobler on .015"x60' solid  lines in the old country with no problems.  I just broke a set of .012" lines with very little stress! Can one free flight  airplane! Not Lol!

                                                                                                             Tia,

                                                                                                             Frank

I used solid lines on my Veco Warrior in the early '70's. Didn't like them at all, but also didn't know squat about cleaning and caring for them.  Maybe your climate and locale are better suited to solids than ours, but I just don't see them as practical for either sport or competition stunt flying.

If your .012" lines that broke were braided cables, either they were not "assembled with great skill", or they were used & abused. I used .012" cables for a couple of .25 powered planes (it's legal) and never had a problem with them. Copper wire bindings with heat shrink tubing over...no crimping. They are not as tolerant of being stepped on or snagged on weeds and such as would be .015's. 

Regarding your statement about your set of solids being  "assembled with great skill and are like new"...I would only suggest that you check the AMA website and see if they were assembled by the approved method. If they are NOT, you might shorten them a tad and bind all the ends per AMA specifications. With great skill, of course. Otherwise, there is a liability concern that I would not risk. I you assemble them per the current methods, I would probably use them after giving them a good look for corrosion with a 30 power pocket microscope that I happen to have.  FWIW.  Steve

[Randy Ryan]

Putting any kind of oil on solid lines is bad advice.  If you want sticky lines, put oil on them.  The viscosity of the oil on solid lines is not a good thing.  Solids must be kept clean.  Use a solvent that leaves no residue.  Brake cleaning fluid works.  So does acetone.

Keith

Never tried it but I would think silicone lubrication would be ideal. I used Son-of-a-Gun as a rubber lube and it dries and doesn't collect dust and grit. Another might be windshield silicone, can't remember the trade name but is dries and repels water which may be another plus feature. I used it on some chrome plated cast iron parts that kept getting rust stains. I used Naval Jelly to remove the stains, rinsed well and dried with a heat gun then applied the silicone. 6 months, still no sign of rust and the water still beads up on them. Heck, come to think about it, that may not be a bad treatment for braided lines, they'd be super slick.

[Brett Buck]

Never tried it but I would think silicone lubrication would be ideal. I used Son-of-a-Gun as a rubber lube and it dries and doesn't collect dust and grit. Another might be windshield silicone, can't remember the trade name but is dries and repels water which may be another plus feature. I used it on some chrome plated cast iron parts that kept getting rust stains. I used Naval Jelly to remove the stains, rinsed well and dried with a heat gun then applied the silicone. 6 months, still no sign of rust and the water still beads up on them. Heck, come to think about it, that may not be a bad treatment for braided lines, they'd be super slick.

   We have tried all sorts of silicone spray, and while some people have had luck with it, all I ever found it to do was put tremendous drag on the lines. They didn't stick, but they were draggy like the controls were dipped in gear oil.

     Running them dead clean and dry with NOTHING on them seem to be the best approach. Dry lube (like graphite or teflon spray) doesn't seem to hurt but doesn't do anything much useful when I tried it, it probably just falls off.

    Brett

[Randy Ryan]

   We have tried all sorts of silicone spray, and while some people have had luck with it, all I ever found it to do was put tremendous drag on the lines. They didn't stick, but they were draggy like the controls were dipped in gear oil.

     Running them dead clean and dry with NOTHING on them seem to be the best approach. Dry lube (like graphite or teflon spray) doesn't seem to hurt but doesn't do anything much useful when I tried it, it probably just falls off.

    Brett

Interesting, I'd never have expected that. Seems the Rain-X (I remembered the name finally) would be ideal both dry lubrication and water repellent and as you can see, it dries and is clear since its on glass. Oh well, just a thought.

[Trostle]

Seems the Rain-X (I remembered the name finally) would be ideal both dry lubrication and water repellent and as you can see, it dries and is clear since its on glass. Oh well, just a thought.

CAUTION!!!

Unless you have actually tried any specific material on solid lines, please do not even suggest for others to try it.  Rain-X and some other materials like it DO NOT WORK unless you want to have sluggish or locked up controls which will usually happen.  Yes, one application of some of these materials might act like they help, particularly when it is raining.  The problem will come up with the thinking that one application worked OK, the second application should be better.  WRONG!!!  If you use any of this stuff, even talc or graphite (or a mixture thereof as some use), the lines need to be scrupulously and often cleaned before extended use or any further applications.

Besides, solid lines should be thoroughly cleaned after several flights, particularly in areas where smog is prevalent (like any field in LA).

Keith

[Brett Buck]

Interesting, I'd never have expected that. Seems the Rain-X (I remembered the name finally) would be ideal both dry lubrication and water repellent and as you can see, it dries and is clear since its on glass. Oh well, just a thought.

  Rain-X is also pretty notorious for building up and making your wipers chatter! In fact you usually have to scrub the windshield perfectly clean with Bon-Ami (the original) and reapply once that starts happening. We tried it on lines and it make them very sticky and draggy, and acetone barely touched it to clean it off. It's not a lot different from silicone spray.

    Brett

[Randy Ryan]

CAUTION!!!

Unless you have actually tried any specific material on solid lines, please do not even suggest for others to try it.  Rain-X and some other materials like it DO NOT WORK unless you want to have sluggish or locked up controls which will usually happen.  Yes, one application of some of these materials might act like they help, particularly when it is raining.  The problem will come up with the thinking that one application worked OK, the second application should be better.  WRONG!!!  If you use any of this stuff, even talc or graphite (or a mixture thereof as some use), the lines need to be scrupulously and often cleaned before extended use or any further applications.

Besides, solid lines should be thoroughly cleaned after several flights, particularly in areas where smog is prevalent (like any field in LA).



Keith

WAS NOT A SUGGESTION, ONLY A THOUGHT.

[Trostle]

WAS NOT A SUGGESTION, ONLY A THOUGHT.

Randy,

Not trying to be contrite, but your "thought" sort of suggested that "Rain-X would be ideal both dry lubrication and water repellent".  Your "thought" could be interpreted as a suggestion for some inexperienced flier and could result in disastrous results.  OK, so perhaps I should have written "Unless you have actually tried any specific material on solid lines, please do not even write your thought that something would be 'ideal' for such use."  The stuff is far from "ideal" even if it does "dry clear".  (Quotes are your "thoughts" which might be construed as "suggestions".)

Keith

[Derek Barry]

Doug, Bob Hunt, the Bear, Mike Scott, and I all use "No Touch Rain Shield" in wet weather on our carbon steel solids with good results. I have seen The Bear dip his lines in a puddle on the L-pad on his way to the center of the circle. He flew the entire pattern without problems. I have done similar things to ensure myself that everything was good.

I clean my solids with acetone before and after every flight and sometimes more than that if the lines have been laying in the grass or dirt for a while. If and when I use "No Touch" I spray it on a dry rag and keep another clean dry rag in my pocket. On the way to the handle to fly I wipe the lines with the No Touch rag followed by the dry rag in the other hand. It works for me.

Derek

[Randy Ryan]

Randy,

Not trying to be contrite, but your "thought" sort of suggested that "Rain-X would be ideal both dry lubrication and water repellent.  Your "thought" could be interpreted as a suggestion for some inexperienced flier and could result in disastrous results.  OK, so perhaps I should have written "Unless you have actually tried any specific material on solid lines, please do not even write your thought that something would be 'ideal" for such use."  The stuff is far from "ideal" even if it does dry clear.

Keith

I'm sorry Keith, I wanted to leave this alone but I can't. I'm not a school boy, my statement started with IT SEEMS and ended with JUST A THOUGHT. Anyone that could misconstrue that as any sort of recommendation is as stupid as you seem to think I am.

Robert, this is the sort of thing I was talking about when I said in your thread that no matter what someone always wants to take you back to school. It sure makes a person feel looked down on.

[Bill Little]

The times I have used solids, I have been lucky (no rain or high humidity).  I was scared to leave them "out" laying in the pits so I reeled them up after each flight and unwound them for the next flight.  Being a single solid wire, they are easy to kink if stepped on, etc., so I was paranoid..........

I actually liked them better than braids, but have gone away from them due to maintenance required.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Balsa Butcher]

My experience with solids for stunt has been similar to Bills. They work but just too much trouble, especially as our field here is grass, OK, grass like weeds. 

[M Spencer]

Used them centuries ago on combat wings , 52 Ft , .015 . Found still moved at 15 ' loops ' . Stuck at 18 / 20 . possable to reverse loops to outsides at 22 turns , giveing the handle a great thwack .
When youre 14 .

These days polish them with meatal polish , C.R.C. and lightly wipe with tissue , as the sea air & damp are corrosive . dont store any lines near battery / acid or solering flux , either . 

Need regular cleaning ( say Ea four flights ) . Handle with spike somewhat necessary , as putting them in grass or dust doesnt help the freedom . Polishing off the gook & castor does .