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Author Topic: So here's what happened....  (Read 1965 times)

Offline Phil Coopy

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So here's what happened....
« on: January 18, 2011, 04:32:52 PM »
For those of you who witnessed my practice vertical eight turn into a spectacular vertical nine at KOI Saturday evening, here is what happened.  The top brass ferrul on the bellcrank post apparently suffered from a bad solder job (embarassing 'cause I was an electronics tech for many years) and moved up far enough to let the bellcrank bushing move along with it.  Subsequently the bellcrank moved up also and hung up on a rib. And at my skill level, on the bottom loop of a vertical eight, it was all over by the time I realized I had a problem.  I couldn't figure out what happened till we tore the wing center section apart.  Ordered a new Vector 40 kit today.

Phil

Offline ray copeland

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 04:49:07 PM »
Phil, sorry for your loss but thanks for the post. As you know i am constructing a Vector kit now, i will double check my bellcrank solder joints and mounts. Good luck on your next one!!
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline John Stiles

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 04:49:39 PM »
Boy I bet that sucked bigtime.....I hate soldering anything for that reason, and I use watered down muriatic acid to make sure I get adhesion. But I hate it...and that copper wire wrapping and then soldering; hasta be about the ugliest thing I ever saw...........but ya gotta do what ya gotta do I guess. Hate it 4ya and the plane. H^^
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 06:13:15 PM »
 Ouch! JB Weld-JB Weld-JB Weld... :)
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 06:48:26 PM »
The top brass ferrule on the bellcrank post apparently suffered from a bad solder job (embarassing 'cause I was an electronics tech for many years)
The bottom ferrule joint actually looks like the soldering jobs I used to do on large items until I recovered from doing lots of electronics work.  So if I'm telling you a bunch of stuff you already know -- please forgive me.

The key thing to remember when soldering is to get everything clean enough, and hot enough.  You know this already, but what I tended to forget for years is that steel needs to be cleaned more vigorously and more recently than just about anything that you'll find in an electronics parts bin, and things like 1/8" diameter rod needs to get a lot more heat than a 30 mil diameter resistor lead.  I suspect that you got really nice adhesion to the thin brass (which is doubly easy to solder to because of its makeup and its thinness), and a cold solder joint on the music wire.  The "lumpies" in the solder on that lower ferrule are a dead giveaway for a good joint to the thin piece and a cold one on the fat piece.

It looks like you either soldered that with a 30W pencil iron, or one of those crappy "soldering guns" that the unsuspecting buy at Home Depot.  Neither of these really do the job.  What you want when you solder stuff like this is some well controlled heat source.  In a pinch I'll use a propane torch, but what I like even better is really large chuncks of hot copper heated up good and hot.  Like Bertha, in the picture.  This is an iron that I inherited from my favorite uncle's estate, and which he used (I'm pretty sure) for building Tube Radios of the Gods.  It's really a poor fit for soldering surface-mount devices onto boards, but it sure does a nice job on music wire.  I plan on using it until I die of old age or electrocution. 

If I didn't have Bertha I'd go get one of those nasty enormous plumber's soldering irons and I'd be heating it with a propane torch (and probably burning down my shop).

Whenever I'm soldering something like this that has a big disparity in the thermal masses of the pieces I'll always go back to basics -- make sure that the solder is melting on both pieces.  Generally this means make sure that the solder is melding on the biggest piece.  In addition, unless you're soldering easy things like brass or copper, make sure that you can see that the solder is really wetting the surface -- just the tiniest bit of finger-grease on music wire, allowed to sit for an hour or so, will make enough surface corrosion that the solder won't stick.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 08:25:30 PM »
I dont like solder when working with controls.. Vibration can cause them to loosen over time.

What I do with the bellcrank is carbon tube running from top of wing to bottom of wing into 1 in sq ply / carbon plate jb welded in.
The bellcrank housing sits inside the carbon tube sitting free. NEVER had a bellcrank failure.
If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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 I Yearn for a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

Offline Phil Coopy

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 04:18:15 PM »
Ya, I gotta take responsibility for not paying enough attention to the details.  The next time I do that post type of bellcrank setup, rather than ferruls soldered in place, I am going to use full length spacers so that nothing can move vertically.

Offline John Stiles

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 04:45:39 PM »
Ya, I gotta take responsibility for not paying enough attention to the details.  The next time I do that post type of bellcrank setup, rather than ferruls soldered in place, I am going to use full length spacers so that nothing can move vertically.
Why not fabricate some phenolic pillow blocks? ::)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 10:47:44 AM by John Stiles »
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 07:40:51 PM »
Were it me I'd feel more comfortable with some sort of spacer that goes from wood to wood.  I'd use circuit board spacers from DigiKey or Mouser, because that's what I'm used to.  Or I'd make something up from scratch, either out of aluminum or suitable plastic.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Steve Hines

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 07:54:12 PM »
Need to check out Tom Morris bellcrank, two washer, two wheel collar's and to piece's of fuel tube. It works great did two planes that way.

Offline SH Stunter

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2011, 05:50:00 PM »
For those of you who witnessed my practice vertical eight turn into a spectacular vertical nine at KOI Saturday evening, here is what happened.  The top brass ferrul on the bellcrank post apparently suffered from a bad solder job (embarassing 'cause I was an electronics tech for many years) and moved up far enough to let the bellcrank bushing move along with it.  Subsequently the bellcrank moved up also and hung up on a rib. And at my skill level, on the bottom loop of a vertical eight, it was all over by the time I realized I had a problem.  I couldn't figure out what happened till we tore the wing center section apart.  Ordered a new Vector 40 kit today.

Phil

Phil,
Got any videos of that  flight?  I sure missed the excitement, but I'm still sorry for your loss.
Don4029

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2011, 04:07:55 PM »
Need to check out Tom Morris bellcrank, two washer, two wheel collar's and to piece's of fuel tube. It works great did two planes that way.

The article I got from Tom showed using J-B Well also.  I even run the rod long enough that I groove it with a Dremel Wheel top and bottom out side the wing surface and use J-B Weld on the washers to keep the rod in place.   H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline George

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2011, 05:35:16 PM »
Whenever I'm soldering something like this that has a big disparity in the thermal masses of the pieces I'll always go back to basics -- make sure that the solder is melting on both pieces...

And of course, in some situations the parts can be tinned before assembly so it is not necessary to heat the part so much in place.

George
George Bain
AMA 23454

Offline Phil Coopy

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2011, 07:53:05 PM »
My new Vector 40 in the box is still leaning against my workbench...having a hard time to get motivated again after my KOI poor  performance and crash.  Oh well, it'll come back...it did after a 30 year hiatus.

Phil

Offline Alan Buck

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2011, 08:07:05 PM »
Hi Phil you did good at KOI even with the crash of the Vector. You got the back up out and done well with it and trying pressure on it still moved ahead and done good.
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Steve Thomas

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2011, 02:57:58 AM »
Sorry to hear about that Phil.  I had something similar happen, but with a happier outcome.  The split-tube coupling on the elevator pushrod of my Ares let go, due to my crappy soldering.  Luckily the thing wasn't pointed at the ground when it happened, so I was able to fly around with flaps only while berating myself for my lousy work. (Amazing how little effect just flaps with no elevator has on the flight path...)  The weird bit was when the coupler somehow grabbed the pushrod again, giving me back normal control for landing. 

There's nothing worse than the feeling of something letting go (or locking up) somewhere in the control system, and I certainly didn't deserve to be so lucky.

Steve

Offline louie klein

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Re: So here's what happened....
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 07:47:15 AM »
Sorry about your plane. I also hate those electric soldering tools but when I do solder I found a Butane pencil torch at Lowes for lest than $20 and it works like a charm. You can adjust it to get a real fine flame, it also has different tips for other applications. A good adition to any hobby shop.---LOUIE


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