Smoothie vs Nobler vs Ruffy

[Mark Romanowitz]

So I'm thinking of building a good plane that would work for Old Time or Classic..
My choices are Smoothie vs Nobler vs Ruffy.

Assuming they all fly well when built light..

Which would you choose and why?

Thanks,

Mark

[Steve Berry]

I'd go for the Ruffy or Smoothie, as there almost as many Noblers out there as there are trees. Be different.

Steve

[Dan McEntee]

So I'm thinking of building a good plane that would work for Old Time or Classic..
My choices are Smoothie vs Nobler vs Ruffy.

Assuming they all fly well when built light..

Which would you choose and why?

Thanks,

Mark

   If you wish to fly Old Time with the same model, I don't think any qualify as being old enough, with maybe the exception of the the Smoothie, as I'm not quite sure of that. The Nobler would qualify if you built the correct version, which would be the M.A.N. version as presented in the magazine, or the version that George had plans available that he drew up himself from parts of the original airplane. The Green Box Nobler is an entirely different airplane in my opinion and similar in name only and not old enough for OTS.. I don't think the Ruffy is old enough either. Among the three for flying Classic, I would go with the Nobler.
   Type at you later and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
  Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

So I'm thinking of building a good plane that would work for Old Time or Classic..
My choices are Smoothie vs Nobler vs Ruffy.

Assuming they all fly well when built light..

Which would you choose and why?

Thanks,

Mark

Mark, I have had all three and I can rank them on flying ability #1 Nobler, #2 Smoothie #3 Ruffy.  It was really close between 2&3.  If you want to spend a lot of time trimming then you might go with the Smoothie, it certainly IMHO is the better looking of the three and you can squeeze a decent pattern out of it.  I never got my Ruffy to perform over 45 but that was in the Fox 35 is King days.  More power and it might fly well.  Some have had success with it.  Maybe they will chime in.  All three will do the old time pattern in their sleep if they are legal.  Classic, not so much.

My 2c - Ken

A quick search on Outerzone:
Old Time Legal - Pre Green Box Nobler 1952, Upright motor Smoothie 1952
OUT - Ruffy 1958

My choice is the Nobler, it will handle classic better.

[Dave_Trible]

I've always been a Ruffy fan.   My first full stunt airplane was a Ruffy my dad bought from someone.   It really flew well.   Then I built a Ruffy and did a mild makeover into a Navy jet to impress the Navy Nats judges for the 1970 Nats in Glenview.   I was a Senior flier at that time.   Lastly I built another about ten years ago.   That one I built from a heavy kit (1st error) then with the stock landing gear (2nd error) the airplane was just too low to the ground to take off from grass which became necessary as we lost flying fields.   It had a pretty thick finish (3rd error) and looked nice but I used the standard cloth hinges (4th error) which made the controls so stiff and limited with the added dope that it was doomed.   As long as you build yours without the listed errors you should love it.   Build it light and straight.  The wing is sort of thin and won't carry too much weight very well.    The Nobler will always fly well but as mentioned has been too common to be noticed much.   The pollywog wing Smoothie has never been something I could get excited about but thats in the eye of the beholder.  The Ruffy was the preferred up-and-comer for Windy Urtnowski.   Seems like he built at least a half dozen of them.   When I first met Lew McFarland at my first Nats in 1968 I told him I wanted to build a Shark 45.   He told me to build the Ruffy instead-said it flies better-true story.

Dave

[Motorman]

I think for old time you get ding 10 points for flaps.

[Steve Helmick]

Ruffy isn't OTS legit. Some versions of the Smoothie and Nobler ARE OTS legit, but others are NOT.

Regarding the Ruffy, Ted (Fancher) campaigned a Ruffy for years in Classic and sometimes wrote about it's deficiencies. What I remember was that the horizontal tail surfaces are relatively small, but since it isn't OTS legal...

Another design that I like that should be OTS legal (check Ty's list in the OTS forum) is the Pow Wow. I saw one at VSC in '07 that was really nice looking. A .46LA would be perfect. It was published in the same MAN annual as the first NOBLER. If you want, I have a Walter Umland kit for it, and it's available for purchase.  Steve

[Ken Culbertson]

Ruffy isn't OTS legit. Some versions of the Smoothie and Nobler ARE OTS legit, but others are NOT.

Regarding the Ruffy, Ted (Fancher) campaigned a Ruffy for years in Classic and sometimes wrote about it's deficiencies. What I remember was that the horizontal tail surfaces are relatively small, but since it isn't OTS legal...

Another design that I like that should be OTS legal (check Ty's list in the OTS forum) is the Pow Wow. I saw one at VSC in '07 that was really nice looking. A .46LA would be perfect. It was published in the same MAN annual as the first NOBLER. If you want, I have a Walter Umland kit for it, and it's available for purchase.  Steve

Don't forget the Chief.  Same tribe.  I think the Chief was a bit larger than the Pow Wow and became the Nobler when it went off of the reservation. 

Ken

[Dave_Trible]

If you are trying to straddle both events with one airplane and be fairly competitive in both-thats sort of tough.    That first version Nobler might.  If I wanted an Old Timer with some performance I'd look at the Wildman 60 by Floyd Carter.   LOTS of wing area.  The 'problem' is the 'worthless gap'.   From when OT ends and the new, later era of high performance, flapped airplanes begin in Classic there is about a four or five year gap of time.   Airplanes in that period are too new for OT but not yet competitive for Classic.   The Super Ringmaster is one such airplane.   It's sort of worthless for either event.   I happened to just have built one since I talked Doc out of the kit he had but it's something I'll only use for Ringmaster weekend and maybe the St. Louis Turkey shoot if we get there next year.    Best bet is to build something for BOTH events-two airplanes.   This is of course if your purpose is to fly something in a contest.    If it's just for fun then it doesn't matter.


Dave

[Mark Romanowitz]

Mostly it's because I have a number of reworked/chromed OS Max S .35s and I was looking for something "interesting" to put them in.. I can strap one on an S-1 Ringmaster for OTS, I suppose, and then build something else for Classic.. I don't need a 2 for 1 solution here.

If I did that then I could put one in a .35 size Stiletto or Shark .35.. Or a Geiseke Nobler..
But I too have "seen a lot of Noblers" and I know that's because the Nobler is a proven plane and more readily available.

And I'm somewhat familiar with Ted Fancher's thoughts on the Ruffy.. But other than Lew calling the Ruffy the Ruffy as a play on Palmer's "Smoothie" I know little about the Smoothie, but I see Brodak has a kit of it.

My first built up kit was a Jetco Dolphin when I was 14. I needed help but my Dad was too busy and really didn't know much about control line so I never got it done and never flew it.. So that is another possibility.

Now that I have a lot of scratch building behind me, building from plans isn't an issue.. And actually I prefer it to kits, but sometimes having a kit does speed things up, But I 've had some unexpected expenses and had to use up my hobby cash for the short term so building from plans is the solution at this point.

So now I've gone beyond the original question, but at least this is helping me refine what direction to go in..

Thanks,
Mark

[Brett Buck]

So I'm thinking of building a good plane that would work for Old Time or Classic..
My choices are Smoothie vs Nobler vs Ruffy.
Mark

    I was hoping Ted would add his comments, but failing that, I have flown Noblers very extensively in the past, and flew Ted's Ruffy to a good finish at the NWRs. I probably prefer the way the Ruffy responds, and I was able to be very precise with it in very little practice. It has more reasonable flaps than the Nobler, and both have relatively small tails.

   The one big difference is that the Ruffy seems to suck up power far worse than the Nobler. Talking to Ted on the way back from the regionals one year, we figured that the aspect ratio is "over the cliff" low, so it was very demanding of power, and you had to be pretty careful to manage your energy. It would turn substantially tighter than any of my Noblers, and much more "coordinated" for lack of a better word, but you couldn't take full advantage of it because it got slow very quickly. I *think* this one had a Rustler-Merco 35 Metamorph just like his Tucker, but even that, you still had to be pretty careful with it.   With a 60's-style engine/prop I would think this would be greatly exacerbated.

     Otherwise, this is classic, not Top 20 day, so ultimately the performance is probably good enough if you can avoid getting too ham-handed with it, at least against other guys with "period" power.

     Brett

[Will Hinton]

Loved the Ruffy from the moment I saw the original article.  Finally built one in 1989 and campaigned it through the intermediate class with an OS Max 35 in it.  It still adorns the wall in my big shop along with a picture of it with Lew and I at the nats one year.  Do the Ruffy!