Post by: Paul Taylor on January 29, 2025, 03:15:18 PM
I really liked the way it flew today.
My flying buddy Dick Carville asked if I made any changes and I said yes a different handle.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250129/d3e35163ae9d9995b1f6132694dbf173.jpg)
Post by: Brett Buck on January 29, 2025, 06:59:01 PM
Brett
Post by: Paul Taylor on January 30, 2025, 12:40:08 PM
Line spacing seems the same. The Kaz fits tighter and is slimmer to grip.
Or maybe I just forgot how well the plane flys. She has been hanging up for awhile.
Any who I’m going to fly it more often. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250130/f92b5a2a52894d5bb2ee54d014ba6182.jpg)
Post by: Brett Buck on January 30, 2025, 01:07:17 PM
Went from a Tom Morris to a Kaz.
Line spacing seems the same. The Kaz fits tighter and is slimmer to grip.
Or maybe I just forgot how well the plane flys. She has been hanging up for awhile.
Any who I’m going to fly it more often. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250130/f92b5a2a52894d5bb2ee54d014ba6182.jpg)
The Kaz handle is much less compliant than the Baron-style handle. The difference is where the cable loops from the neutral adjuster though the sliders. When you move the controls those loops tighten up and loosen and soften up the control. What both handles have in common is that you also have to bend the cable when you move the controls, that also creates a curve in the cable that the loads either close up or open up, basically, another springy element. Interestingly, the thicker or stiffer you make the cable, the more compliant it gets, because the stiff cable pulls into a bigger radius curve. Larger cables also fail much sooner, because you put more stress in a large cable when you bend it.
Another big step forward would be a Ted-style or Walker-style hard point handle, same effect to an even greater degree. I went straight from a Baron-style handle with a big old 1/16 7x7 Stainless aircraft cable to a Ted handle and I almost couldn't believe how much different it was.
Brett
Post by: Paul Taylor on January 30, 2025, 02:42:50 PM
Post by: Ken Culbertson on January 30, 2025, 03:14:50 PM
Thanks for the feed back. I am temped to try it. My problem is gets one that is adjustable. My lines alway seem to be off 1/4 inch. :DWith all of the combined engineering genius visiting this site, someone could probably come up with an adjustable, within a small range, say 1/4", line clip.
About the hard point. It takes some getting used to but once you make the transition you will never want to go back. I fly with very fast controls. I use my fingers a lot and follow the plane with my arm. When I switched I found that I could fly an entire pattern without using any wrist movement including triangles. It was suggested that I try a light weight hardpoint and the change was even more dramatic. The handle in the pic is 19grams w/o the lanyard. I never thought the weight of the handle made any difference, until I tried it. You really feel like your fingers are on the bellcrank and that takes some getting used to. Try one and make a set of clips for the fine adjustments. Once you have a set of clips you are home free.
Ken
Post by: Brett Buck on January 30, 2025, 03:17:12 PM
Thanks for the feed back. I am temped to try it. My problem is gets one that is adjustable. My lines alway seem to be off 1/4 inch. :D
You can use different length clips (people usually make them themselves). The Ted handle has a small range of adjustment but you would not want to adjust it by 1/4". The Paul handle has no adjistment so you use the clips to adjust the neutral.
Brett
Post by: Dan McEntee on January 30, 2025, 04:56:22 PM
Thanks for the feed back. I am temped to try it. My problem is gets one that is adjustable. My lines alway seem to be off 1/4 inch. :D
Search on here on how to make a tool for bending your own line clips for hard point handles. Jim Lee sells the tool and the wire needed for them. Since I have been experimenting with the new fishing lines for flying lines, I find that it's easier to get lines very close to even, and the adjustment that is there on the Kaz, Fancher, , Morris, or any hard point handle that has a slot to slide the brackets are usually enough for you to take up small amounts of slack. I just can't think of the name of the guy that came up with it. He is/was a forum member here. It uses a large diameter find threaded bolt with pins located on the hex head and nut for forming the wire around.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Post by: realSteveSmith on January 30, 2025, 04:58:46 PM
https://stunthanger.com/smf/lee-machine-shop/derek-moran-line-clip-bender/
Brent Williams will also sell you a set of 14 pre-made clips (7 pairs) that vary in length by 1/16" increments....Details in the thread below.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/
Post by: Tim Wescott on January 31, 2025, 06:08:37 PM
With all of the combined engineering genius visiting this site, someone could probably come up with an adjustable, within a small range, say 1/4", line clip.
Yup. Done. You carry around a bag of about a dozen clips; 8 in 1/32" increments to span that 1/4", plus some extra-long and extra-short ones for the really bad line-length oopsies. If you're smart, you also carry a line clip bender and a bunch of blanks to bend into line clips.
Post by: Ken Culbertson on January 31, 2025, 07:05:50 PM
"clips"No, I already have a bunch of those. Just one adjustable one. Not that we really need one, the set approach is perfectly fine. It was more like an engineering challenge. I am working on a hard point with one adjustable side, just for the fun of it. Like the man said, "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing" LL~
Ken
Post by: Joe Gilbert on January 31, 2025, 08:32:44 PM
Post by: Ken Culbertson on January 31, 2025, 09:42:39 PM
Sliding the moveable-part in or out to adjust neutral is no good , use line clips to get the neutral. You will get different feel from up and down when overhand not equal.You are right, I noticed that sketching out one today which takes me back to the adjustable clip. I am starting to think they are only found on zero ounce stunters.
Post by: Perry Rose on February 01, 2025, 08:15:35 AM
Post by: Tim Wescott on February 03, 2025, 02:23:38 PM
... I am working on a hard point with one adjustable side, just for the fun of it. Like the man said, "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing" LL~
Ken
I haven't been practicing lately so I don't know if I could now. But when I first tried the experiment, I could tell the difference between a 25 gram handle made from an old printed circuit board vs. an 18 gram handle made from carbon fiber plate.
Having a simple, light-as-possible handle assembly means having simple, light-as-possible clips. So I use a collection of simple, light clips of varying sizes.
Post by: Ken Culbertson on February 03, 2025, 09:41:48 PM
I haven't been practicing lately so I don't know if I could now. But when I first tried the experiment, I could tell the difference between a 25 gram handle made from an old printed circuit board vs. an 18 gram handle made from carbon fiber plate.I think you are right. I use some super light fishing clips on the handle side. My handle is 19g.
Having a simple, light-as-possible handle assembly means having simple, light-as-possible clips. So I use a collection of simple, light clips of varying sizes.
Ken
Post by: Steve Helmick on February 04, 2025, 03:45:57 PM