Sig kits are back

[rich gorrill]

Just went on the Sig website and saw all control line kits are listed again. From posts a month or so ago sounded like Sig was getting out of the kit business and going A.R.F. radio only. Glad to see they changed gears, they are good starter kits at a reasonable price.

Rich

[steve bittner]

The pictures might be up, but out of stock on u/c kits

[Steve Scott]

I put the Twister, Skyray and Super Chipmunk kits in my cart and it didn't fuss.  No indication at all they were still discontinued.

[wwwarbird]

 I do hope it's true, but I'd be surprised if it is.

[Dwayne]

This would be great news 

[SteveMoon]

I hope this is true, I've always liked Sig products and kits. When I
worked at Hall's Hobby in Dallas we tried to deal with Sig as much
as possible. They were always friendly and pleasant.

I did talk with one of the Sig reps at the Toledo show in April and
asked him about their future kit plans. At the time, he was non-committal
and said they were evaluating all of their kit lines, from simple HLGs to
big RC ARFs to determine what they would be keeping in production,
what would be discontinued and what would be added in the future. I
told him that I really hoped they would keep the CL kits in production
and that everyone in the CL community has always appreciated Sig's
support for this segment of the model aviation hobby.

Steve

[Scott Richlen]

Oh no!  This is terrible news!  I had 2 Chipmunks that I was holding onto until the price skyrocketed on EBay.  Then, with dollar signs flashing in my eyes, I was going to put them up for sale and drool while I watched the ensuing bidding war.  This ruins everything!

Another great scheme for making a fortune down the toilet!  Rats!   

Scott

[wwwarbird]

This would be great news 

 Yes it would. 

[Dennis Moritz]

Is this nostalgia speaking? Are Sig kits now laser cut? One nice element of the Sig profiles are the simplified wing structures on their stunt trainer profiles. Such as the Twister and that plane BB obsesses about. But Brodak kits feature a similar wing structure on some of their simpler models. The sheeted leading edge Brodak profiles are potentially better stunt fliers. The Sig Chipmunk kit and model is outclassed by many contemporary offerings.

[Randy Cuberly]

Is this nostalgia speaking? Are Sig kits now laser cut? One nice element of the Sig profiles are the simplified wing structures on their stunt trainer profiles. Such as the Twister and that plane BB obsesses about. But Brodak kits feature a similar wing structure on some of their simpler models. The sheeted leading edge Brodak profiles are potentially better stunt fliers. The Sig Chipmunk kit and model is outclassed by many contemporary offerings.

I agree with Dennis.  Further I would add that all of the Sig CL kits are completely out classed by kits by RSM and Brodak, not to even mention Walter Umland who totally out classes any of them.  They provide better wood better instructions and excellent laser cutting.  The Sig kits are poor second choice to any of the above kits and I frankly have never understood the fascination for any of them.  They outlived their usefulness in the 1980's.

Some guys just seem to get all mushy about old crap and I don't get it.  The Twister for instance is Ugly and totally out classed by nearly any of the RSM or Brodak profiles...makes no sense to me!

The only thing I can figure is it's the same nonsensical musing that we see with Fox 35s and Harley Davidson sportsters...outclassed over rated and over priced for what they deliver!

Phooey!

Randy Cuberly

[55chevr]

The new owners at Sig stopped making the control line kits because no one was buying them.  The kits were not well cut and they are old designs.  They are just not competitive with the current kits manufactured by other companies. If Sig could make money with the control line kit line they would continue. The nostalgic attraction is the only reason I see anyone missing them. 

[Scott Richlen]

For instance, if they offer the Banshee again they need to correct a bunch of stuff in the design and redraw the plans.  At the minimum, the bellcrank is not properly anchored (a good pull-test rips it out if built per plan), the nose is too long, the engine mounts are too narrow, the landing gear always get loose (due to their poor mount design), and the control system is antiquated.  I don't recall if it had adjustable lead-outs or tip weight.  There are additional corrections that don't come to mind as I write this, but for starters, these things all need to be fixed.

Scott

[Jim Thomerson]

The Twister should not be written off as Ugly.   Each individual bit is ugly, of course, but as a well designed, complementary and unified whole, the Twister is not a bad looking airplane. 

[YakNine]

One thing about Sig has always confused me, do they own the rights to kit the primary force or sell it as an arf , but Mike Pratt owns the rights to sell plans of it as the designer? Just curious. T.J.

[Andrew Saunders]

Randy i have two twisters both with the proper modifications. They are great planes to fly .They are not ugly.

[dave siegler]

Sig Twister  $54.89.

Brodak Mustang profile $109.99

So you can do a lot with a Twister, for not a lot of money. 


I applaud SIG for bringing them back. 

you should be supporting SIG not slamming them. 

[Dwayne]

I agree with Dennis.  Further I would add that all of the Sig CL kits are completely out classed by kits by RSM and Brodak, not to even mention Walter Umland who totally out classes any of them.  They provide better wood better instructions and excellent laser cutting.  The Sig kits are poor second choice to any of the above kits and I frankly have never understood the fascination for any of them.  They outlived their usefulness in the 1980's.

Some guys just seem to get all mushy about old crap and I don't get it.  The Twister for instance is Ugly and totally out classed by nearly any of the RSM or Brodak profiles...makes no sense to me!

The only thing I can figure is it's the same nonsensical musing that we see with Fox 35s and Harley Davidson sportsters...outclassed over rated and over priced for what they deliver!

Phooey!

Randy Cuberly

You're being a bit harsh, the Twister is not ugly at all and for the money is a great plane, mine is stock other than adding 1.5 inch to the fuse, it's a great flier and I'd put it up against anything in it's size.

[Dane Martin]

as an intermediate pilot, i like the sig kits. with a few slight modifications, i can do a reasonable pattern with the banshee. and i would definitely buy another twister. yes, there are better planes, but for the price and for the guys who still crash, i like them.

[55chevr]

I don't think anyone said that the Sig kits were bad flying planes.  Just crudely cut and more modern designs are available.   Intermediate flyers were mentioned and they are perfect for that purpose.  Fancher Twister is a beautiful plane and the correctly built Chipmunk certainly is a good design.  Just that they are not competitive with the modern kits that are available. 

[Sean McEntee]

I agree with Dennis.  Further I would add that all of the Sig CL kits are completely out classed by kits by RSM and Brodak, not to even mention Walter Umland who totally out classes any of them.  They provide better wood better instructions and excellent laser cutting.  The Sig kits are poor second choice to any of the above kits and I frankly have never understood the fascination for any of them.  They outlived their usefulness in the 1980's.

Some guys just seem to get all mushy about old crap and I don't get it.  The Twister for instance is Ugly and totally out classed by nearly any of the RSM or Brodak profiles...makes no sense to me!

The only thing I can figure is it's the same nonsensical musing that we see with Fox 35s and Harley Davidson sportsters...outclassed over rated and over priced for what they deliver!

Phooey!

Randy Cuberly

        "A bit harsh" is very kind...

        The Twister, I will go out on a limb and say, is one of the most built design in the last 20-30 years.  Tons of beginners have built it as their first 35-40 sized stunter.  One in particular, in the St Louis area, went from beginner to placing in expert with THE SAME box-stock Twister, having lived through several inadvertent wing removals, wearing through 2 engines (OS40 FPs I think) and at least 4000 flights.  It's simple, easy to build and repair, durable, a great starting point if kit bashing is your thing,  and it flies well even without the fuselage and stab modifications.

        The Banshee was designed in a time when mufflers were an exception rather than the rule.  A simple shortening of the nose alleviates this problem if using a modern power plant.  It too is an honest, good flying design.

        The Akromaster, Mustang, Chipmonk, and Magnum are all great flying models as well.  Does it come with 4-6 lb wood? No.  Would I build a sig kit with the intent of going to next years Nat's? Certainly not.  Would I recommend to a newcomer to go drop 100 bucks or more on a brodak or RSM KIT? Heck no!

        This may be a difficult concept to understand, but there ARE sport fliers out there who don't want or need a 100 dollar stunter kit to accomplish their goals.  Same thing with beginners.  Sig kits are, in my estimation, entry-level kits for those who actually want to go the traditional route and build rather then go ARF. 

         Aesthetics are, of course, in the eye of the beholder and I'm sure there are those out there who have your views on the RSM kits--overpriced and not worth it.

[Randy Cuberly]

PHOOEY...And you know it!

They are neither competitive in the quality of the kits or the designs.  If they're so dammed great why do they require so many modifications like shortening noses and lengthing tails and changing bellcrank mounting systems...the very things that would affect a beginner most!

I repeat PHOOEY...if SIG is serious about building control line kits then they will need to upgrade both the quality and the designs or they will fall flat just like they have in recent years!

Why plan to fail!

Randy Cuberly

[Dennis Leonhardi]

PHOOEY...And you know it!

They are neither competitive in the quality of the kits or the designs.  If they're so dammed great why do they require so many modifications like shortening noses and lengthing tails and changing bellcrank mounting systems...the very things that would affect a beginner most!

I repeat PHOOEY...if SIG is serious about building control line kits then they will need to upgrade both the quality and the designs or they will fall flat just like they have in recent years!

Why plan to fail!

Randy Cuberly

Randy, with all due respect, I think you speak as a "purist" (do you prefer "competitor"?), and not as one who understands market forces, especially our "control line world".

I've been selling on eBay for nearly 15 years, and sold many, many engines and kits on internet forums prior to starting on eBay.  I can assure you for every "serious" buyer out there, there are many who simply want to collect, admire plans, fly in their back yard or at the nearest school, look over a kit they wished they had 30 years ago, or ... whatever.  And have absolutely no interest in a club, competition, meeting the nearest flyer, or looking up better ways to build, finish, fly.

NONE!  As in Nada, el zippo, ninguno, nessuno, ни один, brak, aucun, aon cheann!

I can't tell you, for example, how many times I've sold a plan or kit to someone who was very close to an individual, club, or competition that I've personally known well, and emailed them info encouraging them to check these out - only to have them follow with multiple purchases but show absolutely no interest in contacting anyone else in their area.

I've seen this in my own back yard ... I'm in a town of about 7,000 with several active RC flyers and some very active RC clubs in the area.  Several months ago, I purchased a couple of engines on eBay from a seller who posts here ... he commented it was surprising that one of his engines sold that week literally went to a neighbor, perhaps a mile and a half from me.

Well, being a sociable kind of guy, I drove out to meet this mystery man.  He sent a cousin to answer the door.  Long story short, I left name, address, phone #, email address, suggested that some of us in town get together.  Never heard from him.  None of my flyer friends in town have heard of him.

He obviously wants to be left alone to play on his "back 40".  With old (real losers in my opinion) engines.  And probably old Sig kits.

I agree that the kits offered by many - including Brodak, RSM and Umland - are far superior in many respects.  But, let's face it, a lot of less experienced flyers don't expect to win the Nats.  They'd actually be quite happy to run out a tank of fuel without crashing, better yet complete a loop or two.  Are you going to tell them they're idiots for buying a $60 Sig kit instead of a superior $180 kit?  I sure won't ...

The way we see 50-year-old kits show up on eBay in pristine condition should convince us that probably a relatively small fraction of the kits sold ever end even up being finished.

Any my bet is that many, many more Sig kits have been sold than any of the others you've mentioned.

Dennis[/size]

[Dwayne]

PHOOEY...And you know it!

They are neither competitive in the quality of the kits or the designs.  If they're so dammed great why do they require so many modifications like shortening noses and lengthing tails and changing bellcrank mounting systems...the very things that would affect a beginner most!

I repeat PHOOEY...if SIG is serious about building control line kits then they will need to upgrade both the quality and the designs or they will fall flat just like they have in recent years!

Why plan to fail!

Randy Cuberly

I don't understand this, why the downer sir? As stated the Twister flies fine stock and is a great inexpensive kit for a beginer looking to move up to 35 size stunter. Also John Brodak, Eric Rule and others are getting up there, how long will these companies be around?  Yes we are enjoying a golden age in control line so to speak with many top notch products a click away, but for how long?  Yes Sig kits were designed back when shorter tails were the thing  but even a beginer can add a inch to a fuse or shorten a nose it's not hard and they may be all that's available 10 years down the road.

[Dennis Moritz]

Brodak's Shark 402 is Skyray dimensions, more or less. A club member regularly wins Advanced at our contest with a Shark 402 powered by electric. Brodak kits are often discounted by local sellers. Probably price diff not that great. There is room in the Brodak line for a simple Twister profile with flaps. A Fancherized update should sell well, if the price is kept down. The Brodak Magician is a bit smaller than a Twister. But not much. Our local Hobby Shop, just before it went out of business last year (alas) discounted Brodak kits but sold Sig stuff at a premium. $70 for a Twister.

[Clint Ormosen]

PHOOEY...And you know it!

They are neither competitive in the quality of the kits or the designs.  If they're so dammed great why do they require so many modifications like shortening noses and lengthing tails and changing bellcrank mounting systems...the very things that would affect a beginner most!

I repeat PHOOEY...if SIG is serious about building control line kits then they will need to upgrade both the quality and the designs or they will fall flat just like they have in recent years!

Why plan to fail!

Randy Cuberly

Wow. Some serious Sig hatred going on here.

I flew nothing but Sig kits (and a few Flite Streaks) for years. From kiddie sport flying days, to beginner contests, up through advanced class. Most were built box stock because I didn't know any better. Never had a bellcrank pullout either, although that might have been lucky.
Every one of Sig's designs are great flying models. Not really a dog among them except maybe the Mustang Stunter as it usually comes out too heavy. But even that one is still a great design because I whooped some ass with a Mustang built much lighter.
As for the Twister, it's looks do leave a something to be desired. However, it's probably one of the best flying profile models EVER designed. If you disagree, you most likely have never built or flown one. The Twister is still competitive up to the Advanced class to this day. Not bad for a $55 kit.

Randy is correct though, about Sig kits failing these days. But I think that's partially due to the fact that they've been around so long, meaning we've all been there, done that and moved on. The market for cheaper beginner CL kits is miniscule at best. We all have these kits sitting under our benches and on our shelves. They're on eBay, forum classifieds, and yard sales. They've saturated the market, to say the least. I personally have at least one of each Sig stunt kit from the Akromaster on up to the Magnum.  
Some new offerings and updates from Sig would be nice, but no reason to hate on their classic line. They're not high tech, but good solid flying models.

[YakNine]

I do this as a hobby strictly for fun and to spend time with my kids I can do basic maneuvers , working on inverted flight now, I am a retread , I am in the Garden State Circle Burners and they are a great bunch of guys with a lot of legends of control line amongst their ranks but I don't fly in contests. I have more fun with a Goldberg Wizard from when I was a kid a Sig Buster and an old Craigslist ringmaster in the backyard, I probably spent $800.00 last year on this hobby and have enjoyed every minute of it. I have bought State of the art custom laser kits and sheet wing .049 beginner planes and lots in between. I am not out for trophy's but to make memories like I have of flying in the backyard with my Dad when I was their age, he's been gone 5 years this Friday and I hope my kids remember me as fondly as I remember him, and for me Sig was a big priceless part of that and I will continue to buy from them and hope the best for them. T.J.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Comparing the quality of Sig kits with others misses a point.

Suppose you have 2 Yak-9 kits and decide to sell them on der Bay: One the old Sterling release, the other the new Brodak version.

Which is the better (quality) kit?

Which will sell for the most?

And, Thanks T.J.!  You clearly illustrate what I've expressed in Reply #21 above.  For every buyer who's looking for quality and performance possibilities, there are probably at least 25 buyers much more like you!


Dennis
 

[Dennis Moritz]

Why doesn't Sig update. Punches wear out, do they not. Lots of folks have laser cutters. Easy enough to improve those offerings, if Sig turns to laser. Anyone figure out how to make that plastic cowl work in a Chipmonk?

[Sean McEntee]

Why doesn't Sig update. Punches wear out, do they not. Lots of folks have laser cutters. Easy enough to improve those offerings, if Sig turns to laser. Anyone figure out how to make that plastic cowl work in a Chipmonk?

If anyone has [tried] putting a Guillows kit together in the past, I'm sure they remember much of the same--bad "die-crunched" wood that is not-so-light.  A couple years ago, Dad sent me a couple Guillows kits for my birthday.  They were of the de Havillin Beaver and the Pilatus Porter--new kits (when was the last time Guillows released a new kit...the 60's maybe?).  The first thing I noticed on the box was "laser cut" and couldnt believe it.  I popped the box open and not only was the wood laser cut, but the wood itself was actually pretty decent.  I called one of my Free Flight constituants up in Colorado and asked if he had looked at any recent Guillows kits...maybe mine was a fluke.  He got a Porter kit to build for a construction article and took the time to weigh the wood...it was in the 5lb range! 

I flipped through the brochure that comes with every Guillows kit.  They're now laser cutting allot of their civilian, WWI and WWII flying model kits.  I picked up one of the 28" span Mitsubishi Zero kits to build possibly for FAC competition.  Same good wood, same laser cutting.  Kit built great and came out looking pretty nice.


Sig would do well to echo Guillows updating of their kit line.

[Scott Richlen]

In some ways this is reminiscent of the Fox 35 in later years.  A lot of people loved them, but wished for improvements.  It was well known in the modeling community what was needed to make them run better (and thus, a lot of people doing engine mods).  But for years, Fox just wouldn't step up and make those fixes.

I don't have anything against SIG, in fact I'd like them to bring their planes up to date (and as I noted about the Banshee in my previous post, there's a lot of up-to-dating to be done.)  This would benefit both the contest guys and the "just like to cut holes in the air" guys by giving them all a better kit.

Scott  

[Larry Renger]

Once you transition to laser cutting, modifications and improvements cost essentially nothing. Eric Rule will put in a fix immediatly when an error is found. I have worked with him for years and can assure all that it is true.

If you find an error in one of his kits, let him know immediately and it will be fixed on the very next kit he puts in the box. All RSM kits are individually produced, not batch processed!

[rich gorrill]

When I posted that Sig kits are back on their website I never thought I would open up such a can of worms. But like everything else in this world everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.
I have to agree the quality of RSM kits and Brodak kits probably due surpass Sig, but as said you can't beat $55.00 price point.

As far as being out-dated how many guy's are still building Ringmaster's, throwing any kind of engine on it and still having a ball flying with their kids or grandkids.

Rich

[Mike Lauerman]

I've built and flown 4 twisters since 1978...not one did I build strictly to the plans.
First order was the bellcrank mounting. The only one that was built as a 'Twister' was the first...Second one became an Ag Wagon (profile, double ugly; but nicely finished)
Numbers 3 and 4 got reshaped as standoff scale P51s, just so I could stand looking at a nice familiar profile shape at the end of the lines.

Hey...Easier to reshape than Ringmasters... Just sport flyers, but quite nice flyers.
Loved SIG...

[john gunn]

I just talked to SIG and they are making our control line kits some of them are being laser cut.  The twister is mostly laser cut now.  The misunderstanding of not producing CL kits was just that. Someone that did not have all the facts spoke at the wrong time about about something he or she did not did not have complete knowledge of.  Enjoy flying all of the SIG kits for a long time.

[Sean McEntee]

When I posted that Sig kits are back on their website I never thought I would open up such a can of worms. But like everything else in this world everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.
I have to agree the quality of RSM kits and Brodak kits probably due surpass Sig, but as said you can't beat $55.00 price point.

As far as being out-dated how many guy's are still building Ringmaster's, throwing any kind of engine on it and still having a ball flying with their kids or grandkids.

Rich

     You talking about the Ringmaster like mine that has scored 500+ points at contests and has several classic wins to its credit, having beat "more capable" airplanes...and with a Fox 35 on the nose?


 



 

I've built and flown 4 twisters since 1978...not one did I build strictly to the plans.
First order was the bellcrank mounting. The only one that was built as a 'Twister' was the first...Second one became an Ag Wagon (profile, double ugly; but nicely finished)
Numbers 3 and 4 got reshaped as standoff scale P51s, just so I could stand looking at a nice familiar profile shape at the end of the lines.

Hey...Easier to reshape than Ringmasters... Just sport flyers, but quite nice flyers.
Loved SIG...

another great aspect of the Twister is that it is easy to kit-bash.

As a junior, I built a Twister wing and added LE sheet and cap strips to make the airfoil thicker, then using the Fancher numbers, built the rest to look like Lew McFarland's Akromaster.  Flew it in Advanced and Senior at the Nat's.  It presented well and was very compeditive with it.  Both met odd fates: One to a control failure at said Nat's, and the other to a bird trying to fly through the lines.

[Dan McEntee]

  SIG was one of THE first in the laser cutting business. Lots of their stuff has been laser cut through the years. They have been doing it on a contract basis for years. SIG has been an industry leader like this for years. Like it was mentioned above about Guillow's, they may have had a large stock of die cut parts and needed to work through that stock first before re-issue/redesign. SIG is one of the grand old kit manufacturers that laid the foundation of where we are today. Economic conditions and other life stuff have affected their operations, but they are still here! The Twister, Banshee and almost ANY other C/L line kit have been modified and kitbashed a ton through the years, because that is what modelers do to get what they want or just something different. But the fact is the basic design of all the SIG models was and is very good and very capable right out of the box. The varying factor is the person on the handle. Wood quality is something that can't be controled sometimes, and if you have been in the hobby for any length of time you have witnessed the shortages and quality issue through the years. Sometimes you just have to make the best of a bad situation and put out the best kit you can. I have a Twister at home with the Fancher mods on it and it's kit bashed to look like my Jetco Shark 45. It had wing ribs that I could not cut with a hobby knife! I wanted to trim them a bit because I was adding leading edge sheeting and cap strips. I resorted to stack cutting them on a band saw. I used EVERY piece of wood that came with that kit, added wood to get the shapes I needed plus added the leading edge sheeting and cap strips, and STILL came out with a 47 ounce airplane, I think it was, and have a pretty fair collection of hardware that myself and Sean collected with it. Some people would complain if you hung them with an old rope. I hope that they continue with the line and will continue to recommend tham to anyone that asks about them.
     One thing to keep in mind. Lots of people don't like Sterling kits, and never have. Lots of people didn't like their version of the Skylark and poo pooed it a lot. This past VSC, I think it was a gentleman named Walker that won the contest with an old, kit built version of it with a McCoy Red Head .40, Top Flite prop, and Hot Rock handle and was scoring in the 600s, was he not?
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

  Edit to add:Regarding the eye appeal of the Twister. If you look at it closely, you'll see a resemblance to the Stevens Akro, that evolved into Leo Loudenslager's Laser 200. I think it looks pretty nice actually.

[Mike Keville]

. . . Regarding the eye appeal of the Twister. If you look at it closely, you'll see a resemblance to the Stevens Akro, that evolved into Leo Loudenslager's Laser 200. I think it looks pretty nice actually.

==================================================

I always kind of liked it, too.

[Randy Cuberly]

Wow. Some serious Sig hatred going on here.

I flew nothing but Sig kits (and a few Flite Streaks) for years. From kiddie sport flying days, to beginner contests, up through advanced class. Most were built box stock because I didn't know any better. Never had a bellcrank pullout either, although that might have been lucky.
Every one of Sig's designs are great flying models. Not really a dog among them except maybe the Mustang Stunter as it usually comes out too heavy. But even that one is still a great design because I whooped some ass with a Mustang built much lighter.
As for the Twister, it's looks do leave a something to be desired. However, it's probably one of the best flying profile models EVER designed. If you disagree, you most likely have never built or flown one. The Twister is still competitive up to the Advanced class to this day. Not bad for a $55 kit.

Randy is correct though, about Sig kits failing these days. But I think that's partially due to the fact that they've been around so long, meaning we've all been there, done that and moved on. The market for cheaper beginner CL kits is miniscule at best. We all have these kits sitting under our benches and on our shelves. They're on eBay, forum classifieds, and yard sales. They've saturated the market, to say the least. I personally have at least one of each Sig stunt kit from the Akromaster on up to the Magnum.  
Some new offerings and updates from Sig would be nice, but no reason to hate on their classic line. They're not high tech, but good solid flying models.

Clint, and everyone else here...I have no serious hatred for SIG or any else. 
I simply have disdain for people who defend inferiority and settle for less!

Any manufacturer of any product who goes on making it past the time it has market value is planning for failure.  Sig CL kits have not done well in the past years and most of the traffic in sales has been discounted kits that were manufactured some time ago and sold second hand.

I simply fail to understand why anyone would prefer an inferior product to save a few dollars, especially when it usually requires actually spending more on Modification and wood replacement.

As for the Twister it has long outlived it's usefulness in stock form...a modified version like the Fancherized twister would probably be a welcome addition to the CL community.  I might even have to have one of those myself.

I do totally disagree with the premise that the CL community is mostly made up of sport fliers that just want to run down to the local school yard and fly round and round...real kit sales from the likes of Eric, Walter, and Brodak prove that to be false.  Those kits are not being sold to serious Competitive fliers as most of us do not build from kits.  They are being sold to sport fliers and beginner intermediate fliers who appreciate the better technology and quality!

Nothing would make me happier than to see SIG redesign or newly design some CL Kits and join the modern market.  SIG was a real leader in the kit market in the past and certainly has the potential to be so again if they wanted to.  However marketing 50 year old technology won't fly even in CL.  I would also be willing to bet that if they do continue to build the current kits as is, the price will increase significantly, and remove the only possible advantage that those kits now have!

Randy Cuberly

[Clint Ormosen]

Clint, and everyone else here...I have no serious hatred for SIG or any else. 
I simply have disdain for people who defend inferiority and settle for less!

I simply fail to understand why anyone would prefer an inferior product to save a few dollars, especially when it usually requires actually spending more on Modification and wood replacement.

Ok, I see your point. But that's like having disdain for someone because they bought an Escort instead of the Town Car. Yes, the old Sig kits are definitely not the quality of RSM, Brodak, Umland, ect. But then Sig isn't charging quite as much for their product. Some people buy what they can afford. And in a some cases, it's more than a few bucks.
Most of the Sig Kits I've seen have pretty decent wood and would build a fine model even if nothing was replaced. These days I know better, and I know you know better. So these kits probably are not optimal for builders like you and I. Doesn't change the fact that these kits are actually fine the way they are.

Any manufacturer of any product who goes on making it past the time it has market value is planning for failure.  Sig CL kits have not done well in the past years and most of the traffic in sales has been discounted kits that were manufactured some time ago and sold second hand.

Agreed. While I defend The price and quality of Sig kits, the market just won't support what it used to.

As for the Twister it has long outlived it's usefulness in stock form...a modified version like the Fancherized twister would probably be a welcome addition to the CL community.  I might even have to have one of those myself.

Well, not to sure about that one. There are few models like the Twister in that price range that perform as well. It doesn't take much modification to use a Twister well into the advanced class. It's simple and sturdy.

I do totally disagree with the premise that the CL community is mostly made up of sport fliers that just want to run down to the local school yard and fly round and round...real kit sales from the likes of Eric, Walter, and Brodak prove that to be false.  Those kits are not being sold to serious Competitive fliers as most of us do not build from kits.  They are being sold to sport fliers and beginner intermediate fliers who appreciate the better technology and quality!

Can't argue this one. I have no idea what the Competitor to sport flyer ratio is.

Nothing would make me happier than to see SIG redesign or newly design some CL Kits and join the modern market.  SIG was a real leader in the kit market in the past and certainly has the potential to be so again if they wanted to.  However marketing 50 year old technology won't fly even in CL.  I would also be willing to bet that if they do continue to build the current kits as is, the price will increase significantly, and remove the only possible advantage that those kits now have!

Randy Cuberly

Given the current market of CL pilots, I agree.

[Scott Richlen]

I think that one of the problems CL kit manufacturers get into is that after a few years they've pretty much saturated the market with a particular design.  For instance, I have 2 Chipmunks, a Magnum, and a Mustang kit.  I like SIG, but why would I buy another one of these?   And I really don't have much interest in any other available SIG designs.  I suspect there are quite a few CLers with a similar situation.  So, unless SIG is regularly introducing new models, their potential market will always be really small (in an already small market.)

Scott

[Dan McEntee]

I think that one of the problems CL kit manufacturers get into is that after a few years they've pretty much saturated the market with a particular design.  For instance, I have 2 Chipmunks, a Magnum, and a Mustang kit.  I like SIG, but why would I buy another one of these?   And I really don't have much interest in any other available SIG designs.  I suspect there are quite a few CLers with a similar situation.  So, unless SIG is regularly introducing new models, their potential market will always be really small (in an already small market.)

Scott

    With that being said, you don't think Brodak has hit that point?I don't get around to contests like I used to (not for the lack of wanting to) but I don't exactly see the pits loaded up with Brodak designs. They have their popular models like the Vector and Legacy with a Pathfinder thrown in here and there, but the rest of their line usually isn't overly represented. Lots of those kits sitting on shelves, including mine. Still see Twisters and Banshees and a Chip now and then. And don't forget the Primary Force. If it were not for the Primary Force ARF, I probably wouldn't have gotten much flying done in the last 5 years or more. It's been my work horse, and maybe had several thousand flights on it and it's built 100% as per instructions. I upgraded the engine to an OS .32 after years of flying it with LA.25 and then a FP.25, and it got a recover job last summer with real MonoKote. I'll have to get it's back up finished and ready for next year.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Dave_Trible]

Something to be appreciated about Sig-  they have the cookies on the lower shelf where the kids can find them-  they have a network of dealers and hobby shops putting the product where a novice might find it.  Newbies have no idea about our small mail order suppliers and might not ever be exposed to something flown on lines these days without Sig having there stuff where nobody else can.  Whatever the vintage,  it's brand new and modern to a beginner.  Just hope they can find everything else they'll need to make it work.

Dave

[Scott Richlen]

Dave:

Very good point!

Dan:

Yup, Brodaks, RSM, SIG, whoever.  If they don't keep introducing new product they won't stay in the game (as small as it is).  Frankly, unless you love this hobby there isn't that much economic incentive in producing for it.  If model airplane guys are running the company, they'll likely do the right thing.  If they are doing it only for profit, well, they've picked the wrong thing to do. 

Scott

[Randy Cuberly]

Dave:

Very good point!

Dan:

Yup, Brodaks, RSM, SIG, whoever.  If they don't keep introducing new product they won't stay in the game (as small as it is).  Frankly, unless you love this hobby there isn't that much economic incentive in producing for it.  If model airplane guys are running the company, they'll likely do the right thing.  If they are doing it only for profit, well, they've picked the wrong thing to do. 

Scott

Aha!  Great way to make my point!

Thanks,
Randy Cuberly

[Sean McEntee]

OK Randy...go ahead and explain to us how Sig discontinuing their kit line will help advance the hobby....


Were listening.

[Bill Morell]

Seems like a silly argument. Anyone who makes anything that promotes this hobby is alright by me. If you don't like it don't buy it but dogging it accomplishes nothing.

[Sean McEntee]

Seems like a silly argument. Anyone who makes anything that promotes this hobby is alright by me. If you don't like it don't buy it but dogging it accomplishes nothing.

 

[Randy Cuberly]

OK Randy...go ahead and explain to us how Sig discontinuing their kit line will help advance the hobby....


Were listening.

Sean,
What the Hell is the matter with your reading skills...I know you're a bright guy.  I didn't say anything about  "advancing the hobby".  
My point is that building the same old SIG kits is a non-event.  I do think it's a bad investment for SIG and I would rather see them spend their money where it will do them and us some good!  However it is their money.  I think they could be misled by well meaning folks that falsley make them believe that there's a real active market for those kits and there simply isn't.

Enough said from me...frankly I don't need your condecending attitude or your belligerance and I do not have the personality to take it!

Randy Cuberly

[Steve Hines]

Let see most all of there kits were gone, so they went in the dumpster or they were sold. Now they are back, maybe they just need to fill the dumpster. As for me I will spend my money on what I want. I would bet money. that Brett Buck could beat all the Sig haters with is no good Skyray, and they could use a good plane.

Steve

[Chris Wilson]

If SIG kits have been re-released back on the market then perhaps someone should at least take another look inside one BEFORE commenting - just a thought.

[Norm Furutani]

i thought I would ask Sig- Here's the response.

"HI Norm,
Yes we are bringing them back. They are not laser cut yet. They will still be diecut.

Becky"

Here's my original query:

Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:35 PM
Subject: Controline kits


> Talk is that the Sig controline kits are again available and that they may be laser cut instead of the prior diecut? I hope this correct?!
>
> Of special interest to me are the Twister and the Banshee kits. In stock and laser cut?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Norm Furutani, AMA9408
>


Norm

[Tony Drago]

 Will still be die cut. Don't forget the parts that were on print wood/silk screed.
Time will only tell. Hope it is not just a run of a parts clean up.

[peter jurczyk]

Sig kits were around when I first started in controlline, They were the only ones that Eds hobby store in covina ever had. The twister,banshee,chipmonk are some of my favorites and they did me well all the way thru advanced. Loved my two magnums too

[Chris Wilson]

i thought I would ask Sig- Here's the response.

"HI Norm,
Yes we are bringing them back. They are not laser cut yet. They will still be diecut.

Becky"

Here's my original query:

Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:35 PM
Subject: Controline kits


> Talk is that the Sig controline kits are again available and that they may be laser cut instead of the prior diecut? I hope this correct?!
>
> Of special interest to me are the Twister and the Banshee kits. In stock and laser cut?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Norm Furutani, AMA9408
>


Norm

Thanks for asking Norm.

[Tony Drago]

Sig kits were around when I first started in controlline, They were the only ones that Eds hobby store in covina ever had. The twister,banshee,chipmonk are some of my favorites and they did me well all the way thru advanced. Loved my two magnums too

Eds Hobby shop was one of the shops to go to for all your hobby needs.He knew how to run his shop along with his wife Peg. Keep it stocked and they will come. Now that there both gone even though their sons still run the store. I get the impression they did not learn well from their parents on how to run a hobby shop. Sad to see a once great shop that is no more.

[john e. holliday]

Sounds like Johnny Clemmons hobby shop.   I was fortunate enough to go visit while he was still able to have it open.

[Dwayne]

Sig kits were around when I first started in controlline, They were the only ones that Eds hobby store in covina ever had. The twister,banshee,chipmonk are some of my favorites and they did me well all the way thru advanced. Loved my two magnums too

Wow Ed's in Covina, back in the 80's when I started back in the hobby someone gave me a worn out Fox 15 S bushing, when at Ed's I asked the guy behind the counter if he knew where I could get a P/L. He turned reached in a drawer and handed a Fox 15 S P/L, blew me away. 

[Mike Keville]

Sounds like Johnny Clemmons hobby shop.   I was fortunate enough to go visit while he was still able to have it open.

============================================================
...on Greenville Ave in Dallas, before some worthless punk burned it down, destroying so much history.

[Maurice Thorne]

This is my first purchase after a few days of research.  Hopefully my new Skyray and Akromaster will actually fly.  The price point allows me an opportunity to try this sport.  If I had to spent 200.00 for just a kit I would not ever get off the ground.  Thankfully Sig is still around for a newb like me.  Now finding the accessories is next.  This is a very difficult hobby to get information about.  Just getting a list of what I need has been almost impossible.  Thank you Sig.

[Steve Helmick]

Yo, Maurice...First...add your approximate location to your "profile". It could turn out that another member of the forum lives nearby and you could become flying buddies. Mike Fitzgerald asked me how to do that, so I'll go and figure it out and come back later if I have any luck...

There are several useful websites you can find via Google, but you might start with the Vendor's Corner below. Between these vendors, Tom Morris (Stunt Hangar Hobby), RSM and Brodak, you can get about anything you need. If you can't get what you need, asking is not frowned upon. It's really important to "have the right stuff"!!!  Steve

[Stew Robinson]

My son in law showed some interest in CL. He bought a Skyray. We've made some modifications to the control system and a made a handle with 2 inch line spacing. It was awful twitchy when set up according to the plans. It has ( sort of ) survived a few faceplants. When the glue dries, we'll try it with the less responsive controls. This thing will easily do loops, even with an extra ounce or so of gussets and epoxy.    

Had a lot of fun getting my 45 year old Cox .049s screaming again

[Randy Ryan]

I see they now have a Vintage Series that so far consists of only the Berkley Mini-Zilch. However it IS laser cut! I don't remember ever seeing this before so maybe they are fighting back.

[bob jablonski]

Sig may not be laser cut but for there price they are hard to beat.  I am glad they are still making KITS. Not very many RC kit manufacturers or large CL manufacturers. What is funny there seems to be more CL kit manufacturers that will deal with hobby shops then RC kit manufacturers. As long as company's make kits for shops I will carry them.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
countylinehobbies@yahoo.com
www.countylinehobbies.com

[proparc]

They are numero uno in RC trainers. The absolute best.

[JIM Nordin]

I just looked a sig twister . I bought last spring as a project to do this winter it's mostly laser cut and the wood is average wood . Not bad but not what you would call contest grade ? It looks like decent kit and as good if not better than some othere manufactures out there . Well worth the $55 I paid for it

[Maurice Thorne]

go Sig.  I can't wait for my new kits.  I am the new person to the hobby.  If I can do it, anybody can do it.  I am pushing it at work and getting new people.  keep it simple and cheap.