Sig Banchee

[MrSteve09]

Hi All,...

I am interested in information on the Sig Banchee; modifications, acceptable weight, engines used, tank sizes, and line length.  I did a search on this site and SSW and didn't come up with much.  Is anybody flying this plane?  Will it make a good stunt trainer to learn the pattern with?

I've had the kit sitting around for a while and since the wife is away on business I was looking for a project to work on now that I can get unlimited shop time!!

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!!

Sincerely,
Steve T.

[Wynn Robins]

shorten the nose an inch or so - depending on what motor you are using.....

they fly reaonabaly well

[Elwyn Aud]

Or you can move the wing forward an inch and a half or so.

[Dennis Moritz]

Take a few inches off the nose and power it with an LA46. Use 1/8 inch five play for the nose doublers. 1/4 inch balsa tripler opposite to engine side is nice.

Or get the plans of a Fancherized Twister and modify the plane like that. AND add 5ply, tripler, LA 46.

Or move the wing forward an inch or two and use the kit stab and tail.

Buy a Twister instead. The moments are better, wing and tail are the same. (I think.)

Us half ribs. Make wing tips. Install adjustable leadouts and and an adjustable tip weight box.

On the other hand I've seen (with my own two eyes) an unmodified Banshee win Intermediate at Brodak. Not easy to do considering the high incidence of sandbagging at the BIG B.

Twisters and to a lesser extent Banshees were the classic instruments for the right of passage into Comp Stunt. ARFs and better flying Brodak profiles have, alas,  altered the ritual. But I think T's and B's 're still good enough for messing around in Intermediate.

Bellow is my serious (?) stunt war wagon for Intermediate Nostalgia. It's a zooted up Twister with half ribs, lengthened tail moment, and adjustable leadouts and weight box. By all means zoot up your Banshee in any case.

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

Here's the article I used to modify mine and it turned out beautifully.

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

Three more

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

and the last three

[Kim Mortimore]

Steve,

Your search results may possibly be due to spelling:  Banshee rather than Banchee.  I tried both spellings on both forums and got a little with the c and a whole lot with the s. 

The Banshee should make a good stunt trainer, and since you already have the kit.....Moving the wing forward has the added advantage of lengthening the tail moment.  Shortening the nose instead will give OK results, just not quite as good. If you build it with stock nose and tail moments you will need a lot of tail weight to balance it.  The extra work is worth it.  Maximum weight in the low 40 ounce range should be OK.  Minimum weight is unlikely to be a problem.  60 foot lines.  Are you planning on using an engine you already own, or buying a new one?  If one you already own, what engines do you have to choose from?  My suggestion would be in the .35 to .46 range.  A lack of power causes problems.  Tank size depends on the engine chosen.  Hope this helps.

Good building!

Kim Mortimore

[Allan Perret]

I had a Banshee that flew good with both an OS25FP and a Fox35, but it was light around 36oz.
Best bet is to try to keep weight is low 40's and power it with a good 40 engine,  Brodak 40 would be perfect.   
I shortened the nose about 1",  but agree with the others that moving wing forward is a better option..

[Paul Smith]

I built one when they first came out.

Shortend the nose (didn't think about moving the wing, kind of a chore on a kit, maybe a good idea for a scratch build).

Used leading edge sheeting to get a proper airfoil.

Shortened the nose even more to achieve balance (make sure engine mounts are long enough to allow this).

Put on a proper rudder in lieu fo the kit dinky rudder.

It lasted for decades before I scrapped it out (not crashed).

[Bill Hummel]

Hi, Steve,
   My 2 cents...built a stock Banshee years ago, with a Fox 35. Learned the entire pattern with it, great flying ship, outstanding engine run!  Guess I was just "lucky"...

[Dave Holtsclaw]

I aggree with you Bill. I must be lucky too.  Mine is completely stock and I use a Fox 35. Nice flying plane and easy to build. Im a sport flier and have had a lot of fun with the Banshee

[Jim Kraft]

I have one that is 16 years old, and has been flown with a Fox 35, an OS40FP, and a McCoy 40. Fly's superbly with all engines. Mine weights around 46 oz., and is still one of the most consistant planes I have flown. They fly very well stock, or like mine that was stretched a couple of inches, and the nose shortened an inch. I have never had a Twister, so I cannot compare the two. I do think the Twister has a different wing, and that in my opinion, the Banshee is a better windy weather flier. Just my observation. My favorite profile is still the Midwest Magician in stock form with flaps.

[Alex Givan]

  I have one that is all stock with a Fox 35.  It is the best flying, most forgiving aircraft I have flown yet.  I'm at the point were I'm making the transition from beginner to learning the whole pattern. A very solid stable airplane, it doesn't dart around or do anything other that inspire you to push your skills a bit further. I plan to use the Banshee to take me to the next level and beyond.

[Kim Mortimore]

Bill, Dave, Alex,

Unmuffled Foxes?

Kim Mortimore

[Alex Givan]

  Unmuffled, 10/6 APC, standard vent tank but I have a uniflow on order from Brodak to give a try.  Also I have another kit that I plan to begin building very soon, it will be all stock with silkspan I will dye blue with Rit dye.

[Dave Holtsclaw]

Kim,  My Banshee weighs 37oz, covered in Ultra kote, SilverFox 35 w/ tongue muffler. I did replace some of the kit wood and I fly it on 60ft lines.

[Bill Hummel]

Kim, stock Fox 35, with a tongue muffler...silkspan, clear dope only, about 39 ounces total.

[john e. holliday]

Some people still like the sound of an un-muffled Fox .35 Stunt.  I beleive the two planes were designed around the ole Fox .35 Stunt.   I have had both in stock build and a Twister using Ted F's recomendations.  Loved all three.

[Brett Buck]

Some people still like the sound of an un-muffled Fox .35 Stunt. 

     And if they did it very much, that's about the *only* thing they can hear!   I used to do it too - Nobler with an unmuffled Fox aimed right at my head for hours on end. Now, I hear an unmuffled Fox or McCoy, and I have to go hide in the car.

    The other thing we found about Fox noise - it gets much, much louder and "sharper" when you move up to 15% nitro. That, I didn't expect. Sure makes it run good, though. 

     Brett

[Dennis Moritz]

Mike Palko worked his way through Advanced flying a stock Twister powered by a stock Fox 35. But that's Mike. A kit, unless you're real lucky, will build an iron wood mod on the heavy side. It's possible that a hard running 20 or 25 will pull the bird with authority. Perhaps on 58' lines. My 46 ounce Twisted is overbuilt and porky, but stiff and pretty straight. On the front is hung a nasty powerful FP40 that breaks in the right spots. A good match of power to plane. At the field today after a Dan Banjok analysis (years overdue!), I pulled an ounce of weight out of the tip weight box (leaving a half ounce in) and bolted a half ounce to the tail. No more yanking the handle to do a corner. Suddenly the old dog turned quick and sharp. Trim. Trim. TRIM.

[MrSteve09]

Thanks to everyone who responded!!

Yes,... just after I listed my original post I realized I had the incorrect spelling for Banshee.  That is why when I did a search on "Banchee" I came up with very limited results.  However a search using the correct spelling "Banshee" yields an abundant supply of information. 

Once again, thanks for all the suggestions and advice.  I sincerely appreciated it all !!

Signed,
Steve T.

[Jerry Reider]

I flew my newly built Banshee and I liked the way it flew but I thought it should be a bit more responsive.  A fellow club member told me to cut an inch and a half off the nose and move the engine back.  I did that and it flew much better.   Now it does the tight turns and it is still as stable and preditcable as it was with the extra inch and a half on the nose.  Cut that nose back you won't regret it.  It even looks better with the shorter nose.  Mine has an OS 46LA on it and I'm using a 12-4 Master Airscrew.  Pulls it nice and even through all stunts.

[MrSteve09]

Hi All,...

Just thought I'd give an update on the progress of my Banshee build.  I've got all the sub-assemblies done and ready to be put together.  I installed a 4 inch Brodak bellcrank, sheeted the leading edge, added caps strips on the wing.  The rudder shape and nose were changed to be more appealing, and the wing was moved up two inches.

Can't wait to finish it and start flying.

Sincerely,
Steve T.

[john e. holliday]

That looks great, now for the finished product.

[MrSteve09]

Pieces are finally put together!!

Signed,
Steve T.

P.S.  I'll be using an OS 40FP to power this Banshee!!

[john e. holliday]

Not finished yet?   It's looking good and don't let me rush you as it takes time to make a decent plane.

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

After much study I have come to the conclusion that that's not a Banshee, it's a BanCHEE....and don't you forget it!   It's looking real nice....waiting to see how you finish and trim her.  I have a kit and its next on the build line-up.

[Damian_Sheehy]

Hi Steve,

This is looking terrific! I also have a modified Banshee in the works, in addition to two other planes I am putting the finishing touches on. (But, unfortunately, my wife is not away on business...  )

I have a concern regarding the CG location. At this scale I find theory is only useful for examining cause and effect. Handling is difficult to quantify and trial and adjustment seems like the way to go. Perhaps someone who has Fancherized can provide provide some insight?

Suppose we move the wing 2" forward. If the CG is moved with the wing it will have the effect of making
the plane more stable (increasing the tail volume, static margin...). My intuition tells me swapping some stability for maneuverability may be a better trade, but I just measured the CG location and it's already at about 25% MAC.

In Ted Fancher's modified twister I believe he increased the tail arm by 3" inches, but "relative to the plan" he moved the CG location forward by an inch. (The term "relative to plan" is ambiguous. Is this a forward movement relative to the LE?)

Anyone have a feel for this or info on what worked for you?

(PS - Steve, I don't mean to hijack your post, but I thought this may be of interest to you, too).

Thanks!

Damian

[Clancy Arnold]

Look at topic "Profile vs Built Up Fuselages" started on April 6, 2010 by Jerry Leuty.

It is about two pages back.

In Reply #22 I explained the mods that Jack Sheeks recommended and I incorporated into my SIG Banshee to make it into a winning Bansheek's.

Clancy

[Damian_Sheehy]

Thank you, Clancy; you're a gent.

[Mike Anderson]

Look at topic "Profile vs Built Up Fuselages" started on April 6, 2010 by Jerry Leuty.

It is about two pages back.

In Reply #22 I explained the mods that Jack Sheeks recommended and I incorporated into my SIG Banshee to make it into a winning Bansheek's.

Clancy

Clancy--

Probably just my own fuzzy memory, but didn't the Bansheeks also have the stab/elev moved back a couple of inches, but just adding a balsa extension to the fuse?  (I have a fuse I started some time back and never finished with just such an extension on it).

[Clancy Arnold]

Damian

Nope!  I almost didn't use the original profile plank because it was warped.  Then I looked again and the warp was in my favor so I used it as is except for the 3/4 inch nose bob.  Also the long motor mounts and tank recess area were cut into the plank.

The 22 inch Stab and elevator made it look longer.

Clancy

[MrSteve09]

Hi All,...

Looks like I am finally ready to start covering, well almost!  The main landing gear on my Banshee seems a bit too short.  I'm thinking about relocating it and positioning it more vertical, trying to get more "height" and therefore prop clearance. 

Any suggestions on color schemes??  Originally I was planning on doing a quick and dirty covering job just to get this in the air and start practicing the pattern with it.   However this project is turning out better than I expected and I'd like to do it justice by putting a respectable covering job on it.  Besides as someone from R/C Universe Control Line form once wrote, "Life is too short to fly ugly airplanes!".

Sincerely,
Steve T.

[Clancy Arnold]

Steve
The Quote "Life is too short to fly ugly airplanes" is probably from Steve Couch, another member of the Indy Sportliners CL club here in Indianapolis.    Steve also flies Bansheeks with Jacks mods incorporated.

Do not paint it to match my model Mr. Ugly.  I used what was handy to cover and paint it. The wings and horizontal tail plus the cockpit area were in Orange $cote and the rest was painted in flat camouflage Tan.  The paint was left over from a Scale CL model of a C-7A Caribou and the covering was donated by Jack Sheeks to get me started in stunt.

Clancy

[john e. holliday]

Hi All,...

Looks like I am finally ready to start covering, well almost!  The main landing gear on my Banshee seems a bit too short.  I'm thinking about relocating it and positioning it more vertical, trying to get more "height" and therefore prop clearance. 

Any suggestions on color schemes??  Originally I was planning on doing a quick and dirty covering job just to get this in the air and start practicing the pattern with it.   However this project is turning out better than I expected and I'd like to do it justice by putting a respectable covering job on it.  Besides as someone from R/C Universe Control Line form once wrote, "Life is too short to fly ugly airplanes!".

Sincerely,
Steve T.

I like what you did to the wing.  Now a decent finishing job is not that hard especially if you use the iron on stuff.  Like anything, it takes time to do it right.

[L0U CRANE]

Very brief summary of my Banshee 575 -

Wings extended to 48" span for ribs... (full length of the kit spar, LE and TE pieces.)

Wing moved 1" forward - yeah, messy, but useful...

Flap root and tip chords about doubled...

New center section ribs, identical to outer ribs. All outer ribs capstripped 1/16 x 1/4; center section cutout enlarged to match...

Tail aea increased to 20% of new wing area (disregarding tips, which serve the aerodynamic function of keeping the rain out...)

Re-hacked the fuselage side view to something I could tolerate from the handle. Sorta 'stretched Spitfire fuse and fin...'

Wing mounted gear, second rib out...

Originally designed around a 12 oz PAW 35 diesel (which I later learned had an oversized venturii ID) that needed 3 oz tailweight for design CG. Substituted a Brodak 40, scrapped all tailweight. Flies like it did with the PAW, but more consistently. IOW - GREAT! Flying weight w/Brodak 40, about 40 oz (w/PAW 35D about 45 oz, and certainly capable of toting that weight.)

Nothing personal, but I do not want to look at the side view of a stock Banshee. It does not inspire me. My B-575 has enough area and airfoil% to fly very differently from the kit Banshee, and for me, is much more pleasant to look at while it does.

Just might post a pic of my B-575 (the working area with the mods described.) Later...

[Paul Taylor]

You asked for covering ideas.... I always liked Chris Sterner's Banchee.
BTW-He also built a cool Talon.

[brian thomas bennett]

I have a banshee that flys really well. The only mod i did was to move the wing forward 3/4". Mine was a kit so i just scribed in a piece of 1/2" balsa to the wing slot and recut 3/4" forward. Like it so much i am about to build another.

[Clancy Arnold]

Brian
I think that moving the wing forward 3/4 inch accomplishes the same thing as cutting 3/4 inches of the nose.  Be sure to enlarge the stab and elevator to 22 inch span and 3 inch center cord and 2 inch tip cord on each piece especially with the 3/4 inch greater gap between the wing and tail.  The 12 inch motor mounts prevent problems with fox engines.
Clancy

[scott ross]

Not exactly; moving wing increases tail moment also. Increasing the elevator/ stab (perhaps still a good idea)
will give even more authority then if not increasing moment.

[MrSteve09]

Hi All,...

I just wanted to post an update on my Banshee project.  I finally finished it!!  After starting this project back in March of 2010, thinking I could whip this thing out in no time, over two years later its finally done.

My more recent goal was to fly the plane today, but that didn't happen either, the Banshee wasn't quite finished, and the weather wasn't all that good this morning.  Instead I stayed home and worked on the plane all day long.  Finally completing it around one O-clock in the afternoon, long after the wind had come up.

Thank you to all those who offered advice, support, and inspiration.

Sincerely,
Steve T.

[Leester]

The Banshee looks Fantastic, Good Luck on the first flight.

[steven yampolsky]

Hi All,...

I just wanted to post an update on my Banshee project.  I finally finished it!!  After starting this project back in March of 2010, thinking I could whip this thing out in no time, over two years later its finally done.

Wow, that's one sweet looking Banshee. Bring it to Wrentham Steve! I promise I won't fly it!

[Matt Colan]

That is one of the nicest looking banshees I've seen!!  I hope I'll be able to see it in Lee?

[MrSteve09]

Thanks guys for all the positive comments and praise for my newly completed Banshee.

Yes,... I'll be bringing it to Lee and Wrentham in the Fall.  Looking forward to seeing you all there.

Steve T.

[john e. holliday]

That is one great looking Banshee.       Couldn't you find a good looking lady to hold it for you, just for us old men???

[Joseph Lijoi]

Two modified Banshees are the Mr. Ugly Jack Sheeks modified Banshee and the Big Jim modified Banshee.  Clancy Arnold describes the Sheeks Mods in in Control Line World.  Jose Modesto (I think) descrbes the Big Jim mods on Stuks Stunt Forum.  Either way the nose is too long, and I would add half ribs and 1/16 vertical shear webbing between the spars and at the TE for Monokote.  I'm sure there are a lot of variations out there.  Check out the forums.

[John Craig]

Steve,

Thank you for your building photos & the photos over the plans.  Your photos & everyones suggestions are hepling me greatly with my rebuild & modification of a Banshee that was recently given to me.  I hope your plane flies as good as it looks.  I may steal some of your trim ideas.

Thanks
JEC   

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

Hello out there.  I am wondering if asnyone could help me.  I had the complete Fancherized Twister article and plans (including the "C" tube wing mod) on my external hard drive and it went KABLOOY!  If anyone has it, would they be kind enough to email it to me?  Thanks in advance.

gravitywell2011@gmail.com

[Geoff Goodworth]

Glenn, et al, look here

http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Fancherized/index1.htm

[DanielGelinas]

Steve,
You banshee looks GREAT
Thanks for the inspirations
-Daniel

[john e. holliday]

I think you can find it in the archives of the PAMPA site.   But, you have to be a member.

[Jan Novak]

Hi dear sir pleas tell me,, magician with flaps flies nice... Stabilizer must be longer way?? Thank you very much Jan Novák.

[Brett Buck]

Hi dear sir pleas tell me,, magician with flaps flies nice... Stabilizer must be longer way?? Thank you very much Jan Novák.

 

    Deflecting the flaps causes a "nose down" torque when applying "up elevator". Normally, you would want a larger stabilizer to overcome that. However, having the ratio of flap movement to elevator movement less than 1:1 can help the issue (like 2 parts flap to 3 parts elevator).

   You can do it without any changes, it will just tend to "swoop" into corners.


    Brett