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Author Topic: Side Force Generators with Pictures  (Read 1861 times)

Offline proparc

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Side Force Generators with Pictures
« on: June 11, 2007, 11:28:19 PM »
Someone on this forum asked about side force generators similar to the new RC artistic ships i.e. Mike McConville etc. Here are some CL stunt ship shots.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 02:14:06 PM by proparc »
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline frank carlisle

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Re: Side Force Generators
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 01:57:05 PM »
Have they made a difference?
Frank Carlisle

Offline proparc

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Re: Side Force Generators
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 02:13:44 PM »
Good question ::)
I haven't a rats ass idea. I just posted them to let the person who inquired know that somebody is already trying it.  Looks like he's taking care of business to me, but who knows; maybe 2 seconds after the pictures were taken he crashed :!

That wing section looks mighty interesting to me though.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Side Force Generators
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 02:14:33 PM »
I'd worry about what happens in a cross wind.  Reports, please.

--Ray
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Offline Bill Gruby

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Re: Side Force Generators with Pictures
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 03:04:05 PM »
OK, I'll Bite;

   In case no one noticed, why is the one on the inboard wing smaller than the one on the outboard wing?


        "Billy G"  ???
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Side Force Generators with Pictures
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 03:49:10 PM »
Were I to hazard a guess, (um which I guess I am in fact D>K) I would say the theory is that if you are in fact generating lateral force you would want it to pull on the airplane as opposed to pushing on it as the inner tip would. However, that being said, to generate a lift vector, you are creating a perpendicular (?) drag coupling. so, I would theorize that if in fact you created significant side force, you are also introducing a yaw moment making the aircraft fly nose out, which in moderation wouldnt be horrible, but I would think not a good thing, so perhaps you could counter that by using rudder to yaw the nose back in. Of course this would be a static adjustment, so would create some trimming issues ESPECIALLY as it the needed rudder would seem to want to change with speed. In fact to balance a systme such as this so that it didnt introduce yaw, my logic would say that you needed the inboard SFG to be larger by the same percentage as the speed differential between the tips. Interesting to think about, nice theory.
you stated that he crashed shortly after the pictures, did the crash occur as a result of loss of control , pilot induced trauma, or power,, In other words, did the SFG'x create a problem that caused the crash?

In looking closer at the second picture it appears to me that the plane is flying with substantial nose out yaw,, hmmm
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Offline Shultzie

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Re: Side Force Generators with Pictures
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 04:27:16 PM »
OK!
Although not exactly Stunt....but in the early 80's while on one of those amazing 60+days infamous BOEING STRIKES, I mooney-lighted for Joe Clark and Bernie Gratzer of  Aviation Partners.

Does the word "SPIROIDS MEAN ANYTHING TO YA?" Joe Clark gave me some great in flight photos of a corp. jet with outboard Spirods...like appear to look like OVER-SIZED  EMPTY POP CANS WITH BOTH THE BOTTOM AND TOP REMOVED...that were mounted to the wing tips..

http://www.aviationpartners.com/spiroids.html
www.smartcockpit.com

(LOoooooong story short!) As amazing as the seemed to work....do virtually dampen out all wing tip vortex issues...BUT WHEN THEY TRIED TO SIDE-SLIP...ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE (ALMOST!)
Joe and his test pilot Clay Lacey...both almost lost all BLADDER CONTROL getting that jet back on a smooth track.  The tests were conducted on models and in the wind tunnels and both were really showing some real promise...but when they were attached to the REAL AIRPLANE...WELL!
IN THOSE EARLY DAYS...before new Computer skills...they soon may do some more research and development with these weird tip devices.
Let me dig through my old Boeing junk and get back on these "SPIRODAL'WEIRDODAL'S  LL~
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 05:46:14 PM by Shultzie »
Don Shultz

Offline proparc

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Re: Side Force Generators with Pictures
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 07:19:54 PM »
My understanding of winglets on real commercial planes is that they "fool" the wing into thinking it is longer than it really is, thereby increasing AR, lowering drag and improving fuel economy. On RC "artistic" planes, they are supposed to improve rudder authority at lower speeds where a lot of the artistic shenanigans takes place. There are a number of commercial pilots in stunt. I am sure they can give us the 411.

As to the value of them at 55mph where we operate, I don't see it. But, I think it is really cool to see a cat pull out the old exacto knife and make something happen instead of just guesssing. This is kind of the thing you could expect to see at Flushing Meadows,New York back in it's "golden period".

Remember, there is some validity to this in that, Ted Fancher touched on the sinister evil doings going on at the wing tips in his seminal work back in 1979.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

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