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Author Topic: She's ready to fly! (and now I need to repair her)(pics of repair)  (Read 16965 times)

Offline Matt Colan

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The Oriental Plus is done, and ready to fly.  We bench ran it tonight, and the PA 40UL runs like a swiss watch!
 
I learned a lot on how to to get a smooth finish, sheeting a foam wing, molding balsa, making a pipe tunnel, and actually getting good cockpit detail.
 
I'm not sure how much the plane weighs, but I did have to add two ounces of nose weight to get it to balance where the plans show.  The vertical cg is just a bit bottom heavy, I'm starting with 63 foot lines (handle to center of plane) and 1 1/2 ounces of tip weight.
 
Thanks Windy for making a set of CF landing gear for me.  Also I gotta thank, Bob Hunt for supplying the foam wing, Bill Hummel for supplying the kit, and a big thanks to grandpa, for making sure I don't screw something up in building and painting the plane.
 
I'm not sure when I'll be able to fly for the first time since this weekend is not looking good, but I do have April vacation coming up!!!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 08:02:00 PM by Matt Colan »
Matt Colan

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 06:16:05 PM »
Awesome Matt - Let us know how it flies - I am sure it will be SWEEEEEEET
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Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 06:52:41 PM »
That is just too cool Matt, can't wait to see it at Brodaks.
Paul
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Offline Karl Knipper

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 06:53:51 PM »
Nice Looking Plane Matt. Great job.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 07:28:22 PM »
Your paint scheme looks simple to mask-off and paint.  But looking at it gives me vertigo.  Is that the plan?

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 07:37:33 PM »
Looks nice, Matt. Effective scheme. I hope if flies well for you.
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Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 08:02:42 PM »
Very Nice !!! ............I would recognize that plane anywhere. Good job Matt. Now I want to know if it has the famous "Matt Colan" blinding corner??? Ha Ha Ha
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 01:43:39 PM by Greg L Bahrman »
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Offline Will Moore

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 08:23:24 PM »

Matt;

Really nice work on your new ride.  It will be nice seeing you again and flying with you this year.

Hope to see you and the other people at the Wrentham Fun Fly on June 12 -13. Are you going ?

I'm thinking about going to Flushing Meadows Meet on May 23 as well.  Anyway,

beautiful job and can't wait to see it up close.   See you soon

Will Moore
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Offline Randy Ryan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 08:38:54 PM »
Gorgeous Matt, Ya dun good!! Real good!!!

I might steal some of your styling ques for the Gladiator!
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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 08:49:54 PM »
Looks great Matt! I like it! Hope you get some flying weather soon, looking forward to reports.
EricV

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 09:00:42 PM »
Really nice job Matt, and finished in plenty of time to start the practice season.  looking forward to seing you in PA.
Denny Adamisin
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 11:14:05 PM »
 Looks great and sounds like quite a weapon! y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 05:49:43 AM »
Everybody has said it already.  Don't push it too hard as it looks like a winner to me.  Grandpa can be proud of ya. y1 y1 H^^
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 12:21:16 PM »
Hey Matt,

The Plane looks great. I like those colors ;D

 You really did a great job building and finishing this plane, I hope it flies well for you.

Offline Richard Grogan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2010, 01:21:46 PM »
Great job Matt! You've got skills,man!
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 02:52:04 PM »
Matt;

Really nice work on your new ride.  It will be nice seeing you again and flying with you this year.

Hope to see you and the other people at the Wrentham Fun Fly on June 12 -13. Are you going ?

I'm thinking about going to Flushing Meadows Meet on May 23 as well.  Anyway,

beautiful job and can't wait to see it up close.   See you soon

Will Moore

Hi Will,

We can't make it to Flushing or the Wrentham fun fly this year.  Once Lee gets sanctioned, we'll go there, and maybe Palisades again.  Not sure.

Matt Colan

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2010, 08:07:09 AM »
Hey Matt,

The Plane looks great. I like those colors ;D

 You really did a great job building and finishing this plane, I hope it flies well for you.

Thanks Derek!

I did use your red evolution as a basis to my paint job, just added some curves to keep the classic lines.

Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2010, 10:06:52 AM »
Great work, Matt! Looking forward to seeing you fly it this year!

-Chris

Offline George Grossardt

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2010, 04:37:50 PM »
Outstanding build.  Hope you have a great time flying that thing.

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2010, 05:07:05 PM »
Hey Matt,

You did an outstanding job on your new ship. How come we're not coming to Flushing, I feel hurt, especially since you might go to Palisades. Just kidding. Good luck and I look forward to seeing you and grandpa.

Cheers,  Bob Lampione
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2010, 09:26:25 PM »
Hey Matt,

You did an outstanding job on your new ship. How come we're not coming to Flushing, I feel hurt, especially since you might go to Palisades. Just kidding. Good luck and I look forward to seeing you and grandpa.

Cheers,  Bob Lampione

Thanks Bob!  We can't make it to Flushing because grandma and grandpa want to take a vacation on the last week of May, and that's when Flushing is.  So we may go to Palisades instead
Matt Colan

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2010, 07:33:19 AM »
Thanks Derek!

I did use your red evolution as a basis to my paint job, just added some curves to keep the classic lines.



Thanks Matt. I am Glad you liked the Evolution. I think you did a great job of adapting that idea to you're plane.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2010, 08:33:32 PM »
HI Matt,

She looks awesome and I am sure it will be a great flying plane!  Work on getting her trimmed and have fun. ;D

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2010, 09:58:44 AM »
Well executed Matt,
very clean, take the trimming process slowly and methodically, she should serve you well....
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2010, 08:03:47 PM »
I'm hoping Saturday, I'll be able to get the first flights in on the Oriental Plus!  After my baseball game of course.  If I do get the first flights in on Saturday, I'll have about 8-10 pairs of eyes watching the plane, and critiquing it!

That flight is coming, just need to mow the grass #^ H^^
Matt Colan

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2010, 08:15:02 PM »
Heck put it up after your Baseball game launch from the outfield. LL~
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2010, 10:13:17 PM »
Thanks Bob!  We can't make it to Flushing because grandma and grandpa want to take a vacation on the last week of May, and that's when Flushing is.  So we may go to Palisades instead
I recommend a girlfriend with a car. 
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2010, 01:11:09 PM »
I recommend a girlfriend with a car. 

Howard, you are 1 in a million  LL~
Matt Colan

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2010, 01:12:03 PM »
Heck put it up after your Baseball game launch from the outfield. LL~

Why would I since my dad is mowing the grass tomorrow, and my backyard is specially set up for stunt flying, remember the concrete pad... ;D
Matt Colan

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2010, 01:36:16 PM »
Why would I since my dad is mowing the grass tomorrow, and my backyard is specially set up for stunt flying, remember the concrete pad... ;D
Keep rubbing it in Matt!!!

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Offline stunt1

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2010, 04:35:59 PM »
Yes Matt,

Not all of us have a flying field in their back yard, although I do have Flushing Meadows Park about 10 minutes from the house. I'm definitely almost as lucky as you.

Cheers,
"Champione"
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2010, 07:49:04 PM »
My backyard is almost perfect except...

The ground isn't perfectly level
If you get a few days of a good rain, the backyard becomes a lake
the ground is rough because it used to be farmland.

I'm always full of complaints ;D
Matt Colan

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2010, 07:58:17 PM »
Yes Matt,

Not all of us have a flying field in their back yard, although I do have Flushing Meadows Park about 10 minutes from the house. I'm definitely almost as lucky as you.

Cheers,
"Champione"

And Bob, you can hold a contest at Flushing, we got one circle for the two of us, sometimes my uncle if he is feeling up to it.  I have been thinking about getting my CD license when I get old enough, and hold a contest at my school, where we have enough room for about 50 circles, and 1 paved circle, if you would like a place to park.  Or get rid of the paved circle, park in the parking lot and hold the contest on the grass.

It may happen, hopefully...
Matt Colan

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2010, 05:54:32 AM »
How many more years before you become an open member?  Also hopefully you will find a girl friend that likes your planes and activity. H^^
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2010, 04:45:44 PM »
How many more years before you become an open member?  Also hopefully you will find a girl friend that likes your planes and activity. H^^

The girlfriend is the HARD part (well finding one that likes planes).  An open member is age 18 right?  If so, then I will become an open member in 2 1/2 years.
Matt Colan

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2010, 08:30:26 PM »
Check with AMA as I think 19 is when you become an Open member.   H^^
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2010, 07:13:48 PM »
I flew the Oriental Plus today, and I have one word to describe the way this plane flies...



WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since I have family over right now i'll provide the full story tomorrow morning!  #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^ #^
Matt Colan

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2010, 06:53:03 AM »
Ok here is the story on the Oriental Plus:

Flight 1:  She flew!  Although I was flying too slow to really do anything with it, although I was able to get shallow wingovers and a couple of loops with it.  Through that, I determined that it needed a slight flap tweak and a smaller handle, plus a faster airspeed (the motor was running rich).  I can kind of determine if the plane is overweight if it doesn't glide well during landing, and the plane did glide well, so that was a good sign.  The landing gear is probably a bit too far back because you really need to get it glide in slow and descending at a small angle, otherwise, if I don't accomplish either of them, I bounce the landing, and it SPRINGS back up in the air.

Flight 2:  Grandpa and I found that the flaps were off to begin with, so we just tweaked them level.  This flight, i turned the needle in to get the revs up to about 10300RPM.  We also made a slight handle adjustment, but stuck with the same one.  Grandpa got my lap times and the plane was flying at 6 second lap times!  At that speed and in Stunt Heaven air I was able to get some inverted flgiht inside loops, outside loops, inside squares and outside squares.  Up until I got above 45 the plane felt solid at that speed suprisingly.  I did land the plane much better this flight since I concentrated a lot more landing the plane.

Flight 3:  Grandpa and I quickly drove to his house to get a couple of things that we needed, a smaller handle, 100ft long measuring tape, a jacket for grandma, and jacks to watch the footage we took.  I put the smaller handle on, reset neutral, and went at it again.  I brought the needle in a little more and got it running at 10600RPM.  I was now flying at 5.8 and with the smaller handle I started flying the pattern!!!!!!!!!  That plane was flying GREAT up until I got up high.  I did the vertical 8 and I was losing tension but thought I could still do the hourglass, Just after I touched for the second corner on the hourglass, I completely lost line tension and had to bail out.  I flew the rest of the flight level.

Through all that, I determined that I just needed more pitch on the prop, plain and simple.  The motor was happy where it was so I don't want to fool around with that, just more pitch.

The plane is a terrific airplane to fly!!!!!!!!!!  Grandpa weighed it and it weighs 58 ounces, more than what I would have liked but it is not overweight, especially when I could almost fly the pattern at 5.8.

The plane also has a terrific corner, and rotates right around what seems like the cg, plus it LOCKED after the corner.

The Oriental Plus is a point and shoot airplane, just need to get a little more speed and it'll be good to go.  If you are looking for a first piped plane, this could be it, a little bigger than 35 ships, but smaller than SV-11s and such.
Matt Colan

Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2010, 07:58:15 AM »
Congrats Matt!  Sounds like you are well on your way to success with the new bird.  Remember to practice conservatively and go-for-broke on contest day... 
Denny Adamisin
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2010, 08:46:59 AM »
Thanks Dennis,  There is no question, you will see it at Brodaks in June!!!

Here are some pics:

Matt Colan

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2010, 08:51:31 AM »
Nice photos, Matt. Thanks for posting them - 'looks like a good day!

SK

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly!
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2010, 08:56:16 AM »
Very Nice !!! ............I would recognize that plane anywhere. Good job Matt. Now I want to know if it has the famous "Matt Colan" blinding corner??? Ha Ha Ha

It does have a blinding corner, so I guess so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matt Colan

Offline Jack Mulinix

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2010, 11:42:06 AM »
Matt  glad your first flights were all good. Better than mine. Good luck at brodaks    Jack

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2010, 02:39:33 PM »
Matt, it is great to hear when someones plane is flying well.  Just don't push it til every thing is closer.   H^^
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2010, 04:23:27 PM »
Good work Matt!
glad to hear the initial flights went well, hope the adreneline rush was good for you? I know when I flew the Avenger the first few times I was rushin pretty good!
On the gear, normally if the gear is to far forward it will bounce on landing, has to do with leverage from the cg to the wheels. Pat Johnston taught me a good rule of thumb. set it level flight attitude on the bench. weigh the tail wheel, you should have about ten percent of the weight on the tail wheel with it sitting level. so on yours, something like 5.8 ounces on the tail wheel.. just a thought
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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2010, 05:21:13 PM »
Flight 2:  Grandpa and I found that the flaps were off to begin with, so we just tweaked them level.  This flight, i turned the needle in to get the revs up to about 10300RPM.  We also made a slight handle adjustment, but stuck with the same one.  Grandpa got my lap times and the plane was flying at 6 second lap times!  At that speed and in Stunt Heaven air I was able to get some inverted flight inside loops, outside loops, inside squares and outside squares.  Up until I got above 45 the plane felt solid at that speed suprisingly.  I did land the plane much better this flight since I concentrated a lot more landing the plane.

Matt, congrats on your full on stunter! I cant wait to see it in person. I guess I'll have to solve Stoli Special cooling problem and give you some competition this season!

A few thoughts/questions on first flights:

1) what is the prop setting? Diameter and Pitch. Square tips or round. Carbon fiber, APC or wood..
2) that's the line length?
3) Looking at the side view picture of the model in flight, it looks like the landing gear is in proper place. Are you sure CG is in the right place? If CG is too far back, a model will tend to bounce on landing.
4) 5.8-6.0 lap time is kinda slow and could be the reason for poor tension overhead. That said, I noticed the most folk forget to use lead out position and tip weight as trim aids to combat overhead tension. Most pilots will try faster lap times(by increasing prop pitch and/or RPMs) or larger diameter props but seem to forget about tip weight and leadouts. Make sure you set test those items properly and verify.
5) Did you seal hinge lines yet?

Steve.

P.S. Trimming for tip weight is easy: add tip weight until the model does wing slaps in square corners. Then start taking out tip weight until it stops slapping. If you begin to fly with outside wing up in level AND inverted flight, you've take out too much. The amount of tip weight the wing can carry without slapping is directly proportional to lap speeds so don't do any trimming until you get proper lap time(5.2-5.3?)

P.P.S Trimming for lead outs is even easier: find the CG, measure the distance from the wing trailing edge(not flap trailing edge), measure the same distance at the wing tip and mark it with a dot. Measure 1 1/4 in. back and that's where middle distance between lead-outs should be. I am sure Noel Drindak know a more scientific way of measuring the distance but this will get you 95% there.


Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2010, 05:55:17 PM »
Matt, congrats on your full on stunter! I cant wait to see it in person. I guess I'll have to solve Stoli Special cooling problem and give you some competition this season!

A few thoughts/questions on first flights:

1) what is the prop setting? Diameter and Pitch. Square tips or round. Carbon fiber, APC or wood..
2) that's the line length?
3) Looking at the side view picture of the model in flight, it looks like the landing gear is in proper place. Are you sure CG is in the right place? If CG is too far back, a model will tend to bounce on landing.
4) 5.8-6.0 lap time is kinda slow and could be the reason for poor tension overhead. That said, I noticed the most folk forget to use lead out position and tip weight as trim aids to combat overhead tension. Most pilots will try faster lap times(by increasing prop pitch and/or RPMs) or larger diameter props but seem to forget about tip weight and leadouts. Make sure you set test those items properly and verify.
5) Did you seal hinge lines yet?

Steve.

P.S. Trimming for tip weight is easy: add tip weight until the model does wing slaps in square corners. Then start taking out tip weight until it stops slapping. If you begin to fly with outside wing up in level AND inverted flight, you've take out too much. The amount of tip weight the wing can carry without slapping is directly proportional to lap speeds so don't do any trimming until you get proper lap time(5.2-5.3?)

P.P.S Trimming for lead outs is even easier: find the CG, measure the distance from the wing trailing edge(not flap trailing edge), measure the same distance at the wing tip and mark it with a dot. Measure 1 1/4 in. back and that's where middle distance between lead-outs should be. I am sure Noel Drindak know a more scientific way of measuring the distance but this will get you 95% there.



Thanks Steve!  for putting in the third flight, I thought I was flying darn good with the plane up until the end of the flight.  I'll try to answer your questions here:

1)  The prop I am using is a Bolly 11.8-3.8.  I repitched it to about 4.75 today for more speed.  Will try that out hopefully tomorrow.
2)  The line length is 64 feet 8 1/4 inches.  The length may or may not be shortened.
3)  The cg is in the right place per the plans.  I may have to turn the landing gear around to get it swept back instead of swept foward.
4)  I have 1 1/2 ounces of tip weight in the plane right now.  Leadouts seem to be in the proper place.
5)  I haven't sealed the hinge lines, although they do have about as tight a hingle line as you can get without sealing them.  I'll probably seal them in the near future

I want to get the plane flying around 5.4 lap times, instead of 5.8.

Looking foward to seeing you this year!  You heading to Brodaks??? H^^
Matt Colan

Offline Bill Little

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2010, 06:21:38 PM »
Hi matt,

The initial flights sound very promising!  I know you will be happy with her. ;D

Having to pitch the prop up to 4.75 sounds like a bit much, but I haven't dealt with the 40UL.  Only the *regular* PA 40.  I would give Randy Smith a call (if you haven't already done so) and get info from him to make sure everything is set up correctly as to pipe length and all.  We have used a lot of PA engines on pipe between my son and I, so I just had the questions.  Not talkng down, just wondering....  I have also checked Bolly props and many were not *as advertised* when I first check them on the Prather.  But, either way, just find whatever works!

Keep on trimming and getting use to her, I am sure she will serve you well!  Maybe I will finally get back to Brodak's this year.

Big Bear
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2010, 07:47:29 PM »
Hi matt,

The initial flights sound very promising!  I know you will be happy with her. ;D

Having to pitch the prop up to 4.75 sounds like a bit much, but I haven't dealt with the 40UL.  Only the *regular* PA 40.  I would give Randy Smith a call (if you haven't already done so) and get info from him to make sure everything is set up correctly as to pipe length and all.  We have used a lot of PA engines on pipe between my son and I, so I just had the questions.  Not talkng down, just wondering....  I have also checked Bolly props and many were not *as advertised* when I first check them on the Prather.  But, either way, just find whatever works!

Keep on trimming and getting use to her, I am sure she will serve you well!  Maybe I will finally get back to Brodak's this year.

Big Bear


Hi Bill,

In MA a couple years ago, Don Ogren wrote an article on how to make a pitch gauge.  I found the article when I was looking throught some old stuff, and gave it to grandpa, and he made the gauge today.  If anybody's interested, the issue the article was in is the May 2007 Model Aviation.  We also have a Bolly 11.75-4.25 that I would like to try as well.  We do have the pipe trimming chart, and if I can't get enough speed, I will refer to the chart to find what I'm looking for.

I'll try the prop out hopefully tomorrow.
Matt Colan

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: She's ready to fly! (and now she's been flown!)
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2010, 11:51:55 PM »
Thanks Steve!  for putting in the third flight, I thought I was flying darn good with the plane up until the end of the flight.  I'll try to answer your questions here:

1)  The prop I am using is a Bolly 11.8-3.8.  I repitched it to about 4.75 today for more speed.
I want to get the plane flying around 5.4 lap times, instead of 5.8.

    4 3/4!  That's a tremendous amount of pitch for that engine. It sounds to me that you were awfully close the way it is.  I would guess that you have a bit too much diameter, too little venturi, too little rpm, too much pipe length, or not enough nitro. But just about no one is using that much pitch and if you do you are losing a bunch of power.

      Brett


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