Matt;
Really nice work on your new ride. It will be nice seeing you again and flying with you this year.
Hope to see you and the other people at the Wrentham Fun Fly on June 12 -13. Are you going ?
I'm thinking about going to Flushing Meadows Meet on May 23 as well. Anyway,
beautiful job and can't wait to see it up close. See you soon
Will Moore
Hey Matt,
The Plane looks great. I like those colors ;D
You really did a great job building and finishing this plane, I hope it flies well for you.
Hey Matt,
You did an outstanding job on your new ship. How come we're not coming to Flushing, I feel hurt, especially since you might go to Palisades. Just kidding. Good luck and I look forward to seeing you and grandpa.
Cheers, Bob Lampione
Thanks Derek!
I did use your red evolution as a basis to my paint job, just added some curves to keep the classic lines.
Thanks Bob! We can't make it to Flushing because grandma and grandpa want to take a vacation on the last week of May, and that's when Flushing is. So we may go to Palisades insteadI recommend a girlfriend with a car.
I recommend a girlfriend with a car.
Heck put it up after your Baseball game launch from the outfield. LL~
Why would I since my dad is mowing the grass tomorrow, and my backyard is specially set up for stunt flying, remember the concrete pad... ;DKeep rubbing it in Matt!!!
Yes Matt,
Not all of us have a flying field in their back yard, although I do have Flushing Meadows Park about 10 minutes from the house. I'm definitely almost as lucky as you.
Cheers,
"Champione"
How many more years before you become an open member? Also hopefully you will find a girl friend that likes your planes and activity. H^^
Very Nice !!! ............I would recognize that plane anywhere. Good job Matt. Now I want to know if it has the famous "Matt Colan" blinding corner??? Ha Ha Ha
Flight 2: Grandpa and I found that the flaps were off to begin with, so we just tweaked them level. This flight, i turned the needle in to get the revs up to about 10300RPM. We also made a slight handle adjustment, but stuck with the same one. Grandpa got my lap times and the plane was flying at 6 second lap times! At that speed and in Stunt Heaven air I was able to get some inverted flight inside loops, outside loops, inside squares and outside squares. Up until I got above 45 the plane felt solid at that speed suprisingly. I did land the plane much better this flight since I concentrated a lot more landing the plane.
Matt, congrats on your full on stunter! I cant wait to see it in person. I guess I'll have to solve Stoli Special cooling problem and give you some competition this season!
A few thoughts/questions on first flights:
1) what is the prop setting? Diameter and Pitch. Square tips or round. Carbon fiber, APC or wood..
2) that's the line length?
3) Looking at the side view picture of the model in flight, it looks like the landing gear is in proper place. Are you sure CG is in the right place? If CG is too far back, a model will tend to bounce on landing.
4) 5.8-6.0 lap time is kinda slow and could be the reason for poor tension overhead. That said, I noticed the most folk forget to use lead out position and tip weight as trim aids to combat overhead tension. Most pilots will try faster lap times(by increasing prop pitch and/or RPMs) or larger diameter props but seem to forget about tip weight and leadouts. Make sure you set test those items properly and verify.
5) Did you seal hinge lines yet?
Steve.
P.S. Trimming for tip weight is easy: add tip weight until the model does wing slaps in square corners. Then start taking out tip weight until it stops slapping. If you begin to fly with outside wing up in level AND inverted flight, you've take out too much. The amount of tip weight the wing can carry without slapping is directly proportional to lap speeds so don't do any trimming until you get proper lap time(5.2-5.3?)
P.P.S Trimming for lead outs is even easier: find the CG, measure the distance from the wing trailing edge(not flap trailing edge), measure the same distance at the wing tip and mark it with a dot. Measure 1 1/4 in. back and that's where middle distance between lead-outs should be. I am sure Noel Drindak know a more scientific way of measuring the distance but this will get you 95% there.
Hi matt,
The initial flights sound very promising! I know you will be happy with her. ;D
Having to pitch the prop up to 4.75 sounds like a bit much, but I haven't dealt with the 40UL. Only the *regular* PA 40. I would give Randy Smith a call (if you haven't already done so) and get info from him to make sure everything is set up correctly as to pipe length and all. We have used a lot of PA engines on pipe between my son and I, so I just had the questions. Not talkng down, just wondering.... I have also checked Bolly props and many were not *as advertised* when I first check them on the Prather. But, either way, just find whatever works!
Keep on trimming and getting use to her, I am sure she will serve you well! Maybe I will finally get back to Brodak's this year.
Big Bear
Thanks Steve! for putting in the third flight, I thought I was flying darn good with the plane up until the end of the flight. I'll try to answer your questions here:
1) The prop I am using is a Bolly 11.8-3.8. I repitched it to about 4.75 today for more speed.
I want to get the plane flying around 5.4 lap times, instead of 5.8.
4 3/4! That's a tremendous amount of pitch for that engine. It sounds to me that you were awfully close the way it is. I would guess that you have a bit too much diameter, too little venturi, too little rpm, too much pipe length, or not enough nitro. But just about no one is using that much pitch and if you do you are losing a bunch of power.
Brett
I was turning 10600 RPMs on the ground on Saturday, and we're using 10% nitro. We do have the prop that is supposed to work REALLY well with this motor, but we need to plug up the hole and redrill it for 1/4 inch (it is now a 5/16 hole since it was on the big 40). Pipe length is 17.5". It's a learning experience, as this is the first time I've fooled around with a piped motor...
Don't fill and redrill it - get a piece of fiberglass arrowshaft, or the right sizes of brass telescoping tubing and make a sleeve that has about a 1/4" ID and a 5/16 OD. Redrilling can be pretty iffy and there's a good chance it won't be in the center any more.
17 1/2" seems a bit on the long side (or the short side*) for 11,000 or so.
The pitch range you are looking for will be between about 3 3/4 and 4 1/4". If you can't get sufficient speed with that, it's not the prop that needs to change.
Brett
*depending on which pipe you are talking about, there can be multiple "right" lengths.
Thanks for the info! Grandpa should be over in a few minutes, and we'll get some flights in!
I'm not sure what pipe that I have on because he got about 4-5 pipes back around 1997, so I'm in the dark there...
I have 2 big problems with the plane:
1) the plane flies great up until the square 8. I'm losing line tension when I turn inside to outside, and I have to almost back up to get enough tension or just bail out.
2) I can't do an hourglass, period. As soon as start the second corner, I lose tension.
Anybody got suggestions ???
I was turning 10600 RPMs on the ground on Saturday, and we're using 10% nitro. We do have the prop that is supposed to work REALLY well with this motor, but we need to plug up the hole and redrill it for 1/4 inch (it is now a 5/16 hole since it was on the big 40). Pipe length is 17.5". It's a learning experience, as this is the first time I've fooled around with a piped motor...
I'll find out what it does today
Or it could be a lack of power. How did the prop fiddling work out, and what was the lap time?
Brett
Matt,
Have you got Paul Walker's trim chart? I think Scott Reise has it in Excel or something. I use this religiously when trimming a plane. It can really help.
Matt,
Have you got Paul Walker's trim chart? I think Scott Reise has it in Excel or something. I use this religiously when trimming a plane. It can really help.
Randy Smith has already posted a very good analysis on how to get the prop, nitro and run in balance. Follow that for the engine run.
You are finally getting snow? %^@ It's about time, now maybe we can catch on with you on practice. H^^
AS I had written in my email to you, This is the setup you should start with for the plane. Use the 2 blade bolly 11 3/4 x 4 1/4 cut down to 11.5 inches, The stock pitch the way it comes is about 3.8 at the 10 inch station, USE the prop as is... first, adjust later if need be
I use a #14 venturie with this prop a 16 7/8 inch pipe lenght, You should be on the ground at about 11,000 RPMs, launch with the motor just into a 2 cycle, after launch it should drop into a strong 4 cycle within 1 lap...mine drops at 1/2 lap.
These are symptoms of either the wrong tipweight or incorrect rudder/leadout positioning or a tweak (both problems are on hard outside corners).
1) The prop I am using is a Bolly 11.8-3.8. I repitched it to about 4.75 today for more speed. Will try that out hopefully tomorrow.
2) The line length is 64 feet 8 1/4 inches. The length may or may not be shortened.
3) The cg is in the right place per the plans. I may have to turn the landing gear around to get it swept back instead of swept foward.
5) I haven't sealed the hinge lines, although they do have about as tight a hingle line as you can get without sealing them. I'll probably seal them in the near future
None of this is intended to dampen your enthusiasm or interest in experimenting, but you *must* get a working baseline system before you can go off into the world of experiments. So I very strongly urge you to put the pitch back to normal, set the engine up the way Randy says, and get it working. After you get some time, then you can experiment.
p.s. BTW, I went back and looked at my notes, and as a point of interest, my last PA40 setup, after years of fiddling, is essentially identical to what Randy recommends, and recommended at the time. Now, that was before the UL version but as near as I can tell they run about the same. The pipe length and pitch were certainly not in debate! This was about 15 years ago, but the laws of physics haven't changed much since 1995. I also think my little buddy/WC Team Member Derek ran essentially the same on the engine I sold his dad, when he gave me a run for my money at the 2006 NATs.
There is one thing I did slightly differently but I think it's a complication you don't need at this point.
Nice!!! Move the pipe in and you'll be hauling 4.7/lap!!! Crazy corner territory! LL~ LL~
Yikes!!! Add ~30" of wingspan and you are at 67"!!! That's loooong for that bird size and weight. As a general rule of thumb, assuming typical stunt model size and speed, cuting 1.5 feet of line will give you about .1 laps speed improvement. but this is secondary to the real benefit of shorter lines: more precise steering and better wind handling.
Take 100' tape with you next time to the field, measure 64" from the center of the handle to the center of the model. cut excess line. you'll thank me!
Matt, there is easy way to figure out where landing gear should be. I believe it was Ted Fancher(or was it Brett Buck???) who wrote that after years of experemintation, The most optimal landing gear position is at 15 degrees forward of the CG. This is how you figure the position:
1) Draw wing centerline(or use a masking tape) forward of wing leading line
2) mock mount landing gear and measure the distance from the wing center line to the bottom of the wheels.
3) multiply that distance by 0.26795(formula is 1/tan(90-15)). measure that distance from the CG location forward on the wing center line
4) The wheel of the landing gear should be located at that distance.
I hope this makes sense.
This could be the reason for your funny behavior. I am yet to see a model where taping of hinge lines did not improve handling and consistency. My Chipmunk required a lot of concentration to steer precisely. Carbon Cardinal would fall out in at 45 degrees in square maneuvers and the Red Cardinal had very mushy corners. All were cured by taping hinge lines! At this point, I don't even bother flying new models without tape. Trimming a model requires balancing of MANY variables, eliminating one will make the process a lot easier. The point I am trying to make is "MATT, TAPE THOSE HINGELINES!!!" ;D
Yes, I loved my little PA 40 (weenie motor as "The Bear" would say).
Reminds me of when the other guys were making fun of P. T.'s Magnum .36 and my VF .40.
5) I haven't sealed the hinge lines, although they do have about as tight a hingle line as you can get without sealing them. I'll probably seal them in the near future
Weenie motor? This from the very last Fox 35 holdout!? If a piped 40 is a weenie, the Fox is a Vienna sausage.;D
Brett
Man, that is tough news. I know you want it fying again but make sure you also take your time - dig a little deep and be thorough on your inspection & repair. Foamies tend to crack break just outside the center reinforcement, or around the ends of the stub spars...
You talk about blending the repair - you might want to consider stripping the finish down to bare and refinishing. Aside from the fact that it will let you do a very thorough inspection, it will save you the grief of trying to blend the repair in. Two of the Randy's (Powell and Ryan that is) have done postings on stripping finishes down to the wood.
I also think it would be prudent to send the engine to another Randy (Smith!) for an inspection - just cuz seemingly minor bumps can damage things (slightly bent shaft???) that cannot be easily seen but might give you fits when you are ready to run it again.
Matt; I think someone has just posted it earlier, "Don't rush it". Take your time putting it back together and do it right. I hope you have a back up plane and if you do that is the one I would be getting practice on while working on the damaged plane. Again don't push it. H^^
(snip) Bill, that Junar that you said you had at the 96 Nats, was it red and black???
Hi Matt,
I am sure you will get it back to probably better than ever!
Yes, it was red and black. It flew GREAT before the crash, but it was a dog after the crash. ALL my fault!
Big Bear
Matt
That is a mighty fine paint job there ;D Great work sure like those colors.
Bryan
Hi Matt. I have been reading your amazing saga from the start. Only one crash in five years?? What is your secret? I seem to crash every tenth flight. LL~ The only good ting about a crash is the emotional tie to the plane has ended. Now it's just another plane, pre disastered. Sounds like you have a winner on your hands. Good luck on all your contests. Love the simple but effective paint scheme. y1 H^^ #^
Well, if you'd like to crash more come on over and I'll show you how NOT to do the vertical eight. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
4 3/4! That's a tremendous amount of pitch for that engine. It sounds to me that you were awfully close the way it is. I would guess that you have a bit too much diameter, too little venturi, too little rpm, too much pipe length, or not enough nitro. But just about no one is using that much pitch and if you do you are losing a bunch of power.
Brett
Matt,
Listen to what Brett says, he's not kidding that 4.75 is too much pitch. Try about 4.0 or 4.1 and that should about do it. 4.25 should probably be tops for pitch. If you need a little extra rpm you could try shortening the pipe just a tad, maybe 1/8" or so.
Jim Pollock H^^
NICE JOB! She's good "CHAMP" all over her with you at the stick. Hope you enjoyed the old stuff on those tapes I sent. Good luck! -----"Dead stick" louie
She's gonna fly tomorrow, at approxamitely 10am!!! Grandpa said he took an ounce of nose weight out, so it should fly even better!!! #^
Sheesz that's an extreme way to lose weight! Good luck and "sneek up" on it.