Author Topic: Scratchbuilt Ringmaster (Read 12441 times)

Juan Valentin · « **on:** November 24, 2013, 02:58:55 PM »

I just finished my scratchbuilt Ringmaster, I wanted to finish it for this years ringmaster day but other things prevented me from finishing it ,also I didn`t want to do a rush job since I decided to learn how to paint with duplicolor spray cans. I built the plane using SIG balsa. I covered the fuse with silkspan and the wings with SLC my first try with this covering. I made the landing gear,gas tank,aluminum control horn,adjustable leadouts and weight box. After covering with silkspan and SLC I used Brodak white primer that I block sanded. I used Duplicolor bright white as a base color ,Bright red and chrome yellow. I made a gas tank using a new quart paint can I bought from a PPG paint shop.Landing gear I bent from aluminum 7075,Wheels are dubro 2" lightweight treaded with aluminum hubs that I made. Is powered by a Fox .35. I really enjoyed doing this model. Here are some pics.
Juan

kenneth cook · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2013, 03:27:59 PM »

Superb job Juan. You really do a quality job. A lot of effort on a profile and it shows. Ken

Bootlegger · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2013, 04:49:08 PM »

Gotta question on the paint, was it enamel or lacquer, and where did you get it?
Thanks, and the model looks real nice..

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2013, 05:20:06 PM »

Really nice!!!

Marcus

Howard Rush · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2013, 05:54:05 PM »

Quote from: Juan Valentin on November 24, 2013, 02:58:55 PM

...I didn`t want to do a rush job...

You won't be receiving any valentins from me if you make comments like that.

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2013, 08:59:54 PM »

Hello Guys
The Duplicolor paint I bought at Pep Boys is lacquer, The spray max urethane clear coat I got from my buddy Alex,But if you do a google search you might find a source in your area. With the paint and LG,Engine and Tank including Spinner and prop it weights 30 ounces.

Howard I will remember that,thanks for the warning.Hahaha.
Juan Valentin
AMA 110695

Akihiro Danjo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2013, 11:30:31 PM »

Quote from: Juan Valentin on November 24, 2013, 08:59:54 PM

With the paint and LG,Engine and Tank including Spinner and prop it weights 30 ounces.

Juan Valentin
AMA 110695

No need tail weight to adjust the C/G?

Very nice, Juan san.
I am interested in how the LG that has incidence affects the performance.

Aki

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2013, 08:29:46 AM »

  Hello Aki San
   I have not flown the model yet and since I will be going on a trip it might be a while before I fly it. The engine needs breaking in and there are a few details I need to do,like sanding and polishing the finish. You have real good eyesight,the landing gear does have some positive incidence that I tried to eliminate but didn`t do enough. The first bend at the landing gear Should have been in paralel with the thrust line of the engine and wing as not to induce lift right side up or detract lift upside down since the landing gear can act as a canard. I will correct that before I fly it by making new aluminum landing gear. About the CG the plane is balancing 2 inches from the leading edge but recomendation for this model is 2 1/4 from leading edge. I will remove the spinner and see what other measures I can make to remove weight from the nose before I add at the tail. Here are some pics.どーものありがとう.
   Juan

john e. holliday · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2013, 10:13:15 AM »

Another great looking Ringmaster. At two inches for CG location, fly your plane before adding tail weight or removing nose weight. You may be surprised at the performance of the plane.

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2013, 04:37:02 PM »

Hello John
I was able to reduce weight by removing Metal from the front of landing gear and taking off the spinner,now the ringmaster weights 29.3 oz but I will follow your advice and will reintall the spinner and see how it flys. I was going to drill the front of the motor mounts but remembered I had milled a slot before and after the engine mount area to lighten them up. I wont be able to do any flying for a while but will let you know how it flys.here is a pic of aluminum LG modification.
Juan

Akihiro Danjo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2013, 07:35:19 PM »

Hi Juan san,

>About the CG the plane is balancing 2 inches from the leading edge but recomendation for this model is 2 1/4 from leading edge.

2"!? I think it is too far aft and you may need nose weight to move the CG fwd.

Good flying, Aki, どーもありがとう this is correct 'thank you very much'

john e. holliday · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2013, 08:36:23 PM »

Rethink, 2" is further aft from fuselage than 2 1/4 inches?

?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2013, 09:48:21 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on November 25, 2013, 08:36:23 PM

Rethink, 2" is further aft from fuselage than 2 1/4 inches??

Many I see are more like an inch from the LE - right at the rear of the leading edge wood, or slightly behind there. Getting it to pitch around fast enough is not a problem with the Ringmaster! Having it too twitchy to fly without stalling is the biggest issue. Running the CG absurdly far forward is perfectly fine on airplanes like this. You are not likely to run out of control authority before you run out of lift.

Brett

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2013, 11:22:54 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on November 25, 2013, 09:48:21 PM

Many I see are more like an inch from the LE - right at the rear of the leading edge wood, or slightly behind there. Getting it to pitch around fast enough is not a problem with the Ringmaster! Having it too twitchy to fly without stalling is the biggest issue. Running the CG absurdly far forward is perfectly fine on airplanes like this. You are not likely to run out of control authority before you run out of lift.

Brett

As Brett says. And I might add, keep that large elevator deflection at a MAXIMUM 30 degrees.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Brett Buck · « **Reply #14 on:** November 25, 2013, 11:44:22 PM »

Quote from: Larry Fernandez on November 25, 2013, 11:22:54 PM

As Brett says. And I might add, keep that large elevator deflection at a MAXIMUM 30 degrees.

Maximum for the lightest possible featherweight model with a super-hot-rod engines. Almost certainly far less, however. I have seen them that couldn't handle +-3/8" at the trailing edge. Even that turned pretty well, and was not sluggish-feeling on the handle.

Getting the elevator slowed down enough to prevent stalls is the single most important thing you can do to improve the flyability. It's more more important than the weight and the engine!

Brett

RknRusty · « **Reply #15 on:** November 25, 2013, 11:47:04 PM »

Juan, that's a beautiful Ringmaster, thanks for showing it to us.
I found Spray Max urethane clear coat easily enough on Google. It's a two part aerosol. I'm interested in hearing how well it stands up to glow fuel. Please keep us posted on how she flies and how well the clear holds up.

Rusty

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2013, 08:15:02 AM »

Hello Guys
I appreciate your coments and advice,I know it will help a lot since this is my first Ringmaster and I haven`t seen one fly since 1970. I will install the spinner back and I might just add a little nose weight to be on the safe side. The little plane has adjustable leadouts,weight box and a control horn that I made that allows me to reduce travel like suggested by you. I will let you know how it flys and how well the paint hold up.here is a pic of how much travel it has now.
Juan

Akihiro Danjo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2013, 08:38:01 AM »

Don't you forget to install a muffler?

Aki

RC Storick · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2013, 09:00:22 AM »

Very nice build. You might want to check thrust line. I looks from the picture the motor is pointed down a little. Let us know.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2013, 10:30:59 AM »

Quote from: Juan Valentin on November 26, 2013, 08:15:02 AM

Hello Guys
I appreciate your coments and advice,I know it will help a lot since this is my first Ringmaster and I haven`t seen one fly since 1970. I will install the spinner back and I might just add a little nose weight to be on the safe side. The little plane has adjustable leadouts,weight box and a control horn that I made that allows me to reduce travel like suggested by you. I will let you know how it flys and how well the paint hold up.here is a pic of how much travel it has now.
Juan

If that is full handle movement, it is likely to WAY too much travel unless it is feather-light, like less than 20 oz all-up. I would certainly get a longer horn so it can be slowed down further if necessary. You can also adjust it with handle spacing but it is much better to use as much handle spacing as possible and slow the controls down on the airplane end.

Brett

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2013, 04:15:35 PM »

Hello Guys
I will follow your advice and check engine aligment,add weight to the nose and adjust the handle spacing but since the engine has no muffler mounting lugs I will fly it like in the old days. Luckly we are in a park and far enough that the club will allow me to fly it sans muffler. When I was building it I checked the thrust line and I aligned the wing and elevator,don`t recall checking engine aligment with my Robart incidence meter. The elevator has 25 degrees of travel both ways. I have to say that what has been great from this post is the amount of help I have received. I appreciate all the advice and coments. I`m not in a hurry to fly it since I have a trip coming up Plus all the holidays but when I fly it I will be posting the results.Here is a pic of glueing the wing and tail making sure everything was aligned.Thanks to all and Happy thanksgiving day.

Mike Lauerman · « **Reply #21 on:** November 26, 2013, 06:06:04 PM »

Hi, Juan!
That last pic in the jig is so pretty it doesn't need paint! Magnificent finish, (and it has yet to be color sanded and polished!)

This should be shared with the Brothers on Brotherhood of the Ring. A STERLING example of the familiar Ringmaster.

Happy Thanksgiving. We will await your first flight after your vacation...

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** November 27, 2013, 07:28:34 AM »

Also remember to do only one change at a time when you do start flying the great looking Ringmaster.

john gunn · « **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2013, 01:20:02 PM »

good looking plane,try the super stunt Fox 35, you will like it, I used it in a ringmaster on 63 ft lines and the combo was great.

Norm Faith Jr. · « **Reply #24 on:** November 27, 2013, 08:32:21 PM »

Geeze Juan! That's a super Ringmaster, I'm going to have to bust my butt to get my Sportster to look near that good. Lets us know about how it trims out. You need to make some plans to come fly with us this Summer. You do know you are not that far away from us.

Norm

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #25 on:** November 27, 2013, 08:54:36 PM »

Hello Norm
I will let you guys Know as soon as I fly it, It took a lot of work to get it to look good and not weight a ton. I primered a few times removing all but what was in the low areas and then spent a lot of time masking, painting and letting the paint dry. The main thing is not to hurry. This summer I wont be able to go, got married and my wife`s daughter is giving birth and we are going to go spend time her. Hope to make it To VSC in the future. It`s nice hearing from you.Take care.
Juan

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #26 on:** April 27, 2014, 02:10:43 PM »

Hello Guys
I finally got around flying the scratchbuilt Ringmaster Pro 35 by Estes. The center of gravity I placed it 1 3/4 inch from the leading edge. I did two flights but the Fox .35 was giving me trouble maybe it needs more running. The plane flew stable at that CG but I stopped flying it when I noticed that due to engine vibration the nose cracked and one of the tank straps broke. I have to repair it. Planing on fiberglassing the nose to the wing. I guess the advice of having the CG at 1 inch from the leading edge applies to the Sterling S1 Ringmaster but I will know better when I fix it and fly it again. I might go to another engine this FOX.35 vibrates a lot.Here are pics.
Juan

john e. holliday · « **Reply #27 on:** April 27, 2014, 05:49:10 PM »

Sounds like the Fox may need a lot of run in time. Of course my Stuntin Ringmaster is powered with a Fox .25 that is just barely braking in. Forgot to say the plane looks great.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #28 on:** April 27, 2014, 06:13:46 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on April 27, 2014, 05:49:10 PM

Sounds like the Fox may need a lot of run in time. Of course my Stuntin Ringmaster is powered with a Fox .25 that is just barely braking in. Forgot to say the plane looks great.

Sounds more like it needs to be replaced with a better engine (or $150 of aftermarket parts).

Of course it shook the nose off - this has been happening exactly as shown since 1950.

Brett

Andrew Hathaway · « **Reply #29 on:** April 27, 2014, 06:33:18 PM »

My Fox 35 powered Ringmaster only had those cracks from 1996 until 2012 when it crashed and I opted not to rebuild it since the entire thing was oil soaked. They do that, but the cracks are usually only cosmetic, if it was built well it's not in danger of having the nose fall off. If it really bothers you, get a modern engine.

John Rist · « **Reply #30 on:** April 27, 2014, 07:30:45 PM »

Quote from: Juan Valentin on November 24, 2013, 02:58:55 PM

Is powered by a Fox .35. I really enjoyed doing this model. Here are some pics.
Juan

Just remember that a modern Fox 35 tends to burp and or quit when it goes inverted on a profile mount style airplane. I destroyed my Ringmaster before I learned this. Evidently the fix is simple. I sold my Fox before I learned how. Should find lots of comments on this BB on how to fix it.

Richard Logston · « **Reply #31 on:** April 28, 2014, 09:59:02 AM »

Beautiful Ringmaster!!

Brett Buck · « **Reply #32 on:** April 28, 2014, 10:04:19 AM »

Quote from: John Rist on April 27, 2014, 07:30:45 PM

Just remember that a modern Fox 35 tends to burp and or quit when it goes inverted on a profile mount style airplane. I destroyed my Ringmaster before I learned this. Evidently the fix is simple. I sold my Fox before I learned how. Should find lots of comments on this BB on how to fix it.

Old ones do it too, just not as frequently.

Brett

Norm Faith Jr. · « **Reply #33 on:** April 28, 2014, 08:48:03 PM »

Hi Juan, I don't know how "pure" you want to keep your Ringmaster, but I would ditch the Fox, plug the holes and re-drill for a OS.25 or a Brodak .25. I know I'll get jumped on by the Foxes, but that's just my opinion. Nice ship.
Norm

john e. holliday · « **Reply #34 on:** April 29, 2014, 09:56:12 AM »

Well, every one has their opinion. Why not use what you have and have fun.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #35 on:** April 29, 2014, 10:08:17 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on April 29, 2014, 09:56:12 AM

Well, every one has their opinion. Why not use what you have and have fun.

Certainly everyone it entitled to their opinion.

But this sort of story is EXACTLY why I did the small engine experiments back in the late 80's/early 90's. Time after time, someone spends a fair bit of time building a nice airplane, and it shakes itself apart in a few flights, or won't run through the outside corners, or generally just doesn't fly well. That doesn't sound like much fun to me.

This is a solved problem with well-known perfectly practical (not to mention cheap and supportable) approaches, and yet, here we are again, still telling people to use a 60-year-old slag motor for more "fun".

Brett

john e. holliday · « **Reply #36 on:** April 29, 2014, 10:26:28 AM »

I guess it is the devil in me.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #37 on:** April 29, 2014, 11:51:25 AM »

...."this Fox vibrates a lot...."

that pretty much sums it up

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #38 on:** April 30, 2014, 05:57:22 PM »

Thanks for the advice to all. I do have an OS.20 and .25 FP I could use. I will test my Fox.35 again on the bench to see if a couple of tungsten carbide slugs in the crankshaft opposite to the crank pin help with balance. I have already drilled the crank with a tungsten carbide bit and cut the slugs. I`m just curious to see if they help. Is the first time I mess with a fox and if it doesn`t help I will just put it away. I do have a brand new shinny case .35 in my collection but is going to stay unused.here is a pic of the drilled crank
Juan

Avaiojet · « **Reply #39 on:** April 30, 2014, 06:31:50 PM »

Juan,

Won't you have to re-balance the crank? Or am I missing something?

Charles

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #40 on:** April 30, 2014, 07:02:50 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on April 30, 2014, 06:31:50 PM

Juan,

Won't you have to re-balance the crank? Or am I missing something?

Charles

Yes Charles You're missing the fact that what He's doing will balance the crank against the piston weight and motion and should help the vibration situation. It's been done successfully before.

Randy Cuberly

Juan Valentin · « **Reply #41 on:** April 30, 2014, 09:13:35 PM »

Hello Charles
Randy is right I have seen in the forums cranks with a slot milled to be filled with lead and I read that it helps a lot I didn`t have a small milling bit to do the slot so I used a tungsten drill bit I had. I will fix the slugs in place with JB weld and plenty of drying time.
Juan

Ron Cribbs · « **Reply #42 on:** April 30, 2014, 11:34:12 PM »

The only time my Fox vibrated excessively was when my doubler seperated from the fuse slightly. Once repaired all was well again. I have put well over 100 flights on my Ringmaster and it's still trouble free.

Be sure that the Fox is mounted solid and I mean SOLID.

Your Fox will vibrate and even more so if not broken in. It may take a good gallon of fuel before that happens and it's best done on a bench so as not to beat up your airframe.

This was what I was told to use by a Philly flier and it works so well I feel compelled to pass it along.

Powermaster GMA 10/22 fuel
Thunderbolt RC long plug

Also be sure the prop is balanced.

Keep at it, and don't give up on the Fox just yet. There are better engines out there, but that engine is fine for that airframe. An engine that has been in production for almost 70yrs can't be all that bad.

Ron

john e. holliday · « **Reply #43 on:** May 01, 2014, 08:02:08 AM »

I remember Duke Fox telling me the biggest mistake people make is not making a good mount for his Fox's.

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #44 on:** May 01, 2014, 10:00:25 AM »

Juan,
Another old timey Fox trick. If vibration causing problems, (and prop is balanced!), Loosen prop, turn it around 180 degrees, and retighten! Cukoo right? Try it.

W.

John Park · « **Reply #45 on:** May 01, 2014, 10:33:31 AM »

Folks:
That trick of rotating the prop. 180 degrees to reduce vibration - we used to do that all the time with our Allen-Mercury diesels back in the '50s and '60s, in profile models like the Peacemaker. It was amazing how often it made a big improvement! Takes fifteen seconds to do, and well worth a try.

Regards
John

John Rist · « **Reply #46 on:** May 01, 2014, 11:04:45 AM »

Quote from: John Park on May 01, 2014, 10:33:31 AM

Folks:
That trick of rotating the prop. 180 degrees to reduce vibration - we used to do that all the time with our Allen-Mercury diesels back in the '50s and '60s, in profile models like the Peacemaker. It was amazing how often it made a big improvement! Takes fifteen seconds to do, and well worth a try.

Regards
John

ba
Works even better if prop is not balanced. Put heavy blade opposite piston.

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #47 on:** May 01, 2014, 11:12:44 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on April 29, 2014, 09:56:12 AM

Well, every one has their opinion. Why not use what you have and have fun.

Because its not fun when the engine stutters or quits while performing outside loops.

And its not fun repairing cracks at the wing fuselage joint from severe vibration.

And Its not fun when you cant find the proper fuel with the proper castor content.

Great advice as always Doc

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #48 on:** May 01, 2014, 01:39:19 PM »

After observing several OS 25 LA engines in action, and having one myself, I can't understand this strange attachment to the Fox 35.

Tommie Lay once said he never ran a Fox 35. I did, but I gave the last one away in the 1990's.

Floyd

steve bittner · « **Reply #49 on:** May 01, 2014, 02:25:49 PM »

I just finished a Ringmaster I started 35 years ago and put a new never run Arnold & fox with no number as to size, but box says 35. I have several variety of engines I could have used, but I thought I would see what happened. That motor is so tight, had hard time getting it started for the first time. I ran a 4oz tank thru it at 4cycle, didn't vibrate to bad. Next to last fox I ever had let me down at 61 Nats and I pulled the engine and threw it as far as I could on the run way. Never had a love for foxes since when you needed all you could get on a hot day they would sag so bad you couldn't do any maneuvers with it. If the Arnold doesn't work out I will just use a brand new $5.95 McCoy red head. Im a real glutten for punishment. LOL.