Scale and Semi-Scale Stunt

[Tom Niebuhr]

For those who have not seen it, go to the Scale Thread and admire the scale Airplanes at Buder Park. I feel that Uncle Mikey's 1/2A scale in Tucson has been a shot in the arm. Scale is beginning to pop up in many areas.

Baton Rouge now has Warbird Stunt, profiles and full bodied airplanes are allowed.

Many stunters are becoming more realistic, leaving the lawn dart image behind.  The "Shark" flown by Orestes has a realistic look that mimics midget racers.

Wayne Willey's profile stunters are beautiful. (I love his PBY). Don Hutchinson's Profile Series of Semi-Scale Stunters are wonderful and they all fly well.

I am working on a full bodied Korean era jet for stunt. It will be electric and have retracts.

I hope that this trend continues. It is very refreshing.

[pat king]

I agree. I think it is nice to see airplanes that look like their full scale brethren. I have laser cut kits for profile scale airplanes that go from about 100 square inches to 536 square inches for monoplanes and from 49.6 square inches to 700 square inches for multi-winged airplanes. The Profile scale airplanes are not designed as precision aerobatic airplanes, but they are far from the "brick on a string" that some scale airplanes are. Except for the .010 size airplanes they all will loop, fly inverted, do wingovers, and lazy eights. I have had some of my airplanes compete at the 1cc multi-engine profile scale meet in Tucson.

Pat

[Bill Little]

Brother Tom,

I have always like the Scale/Semi Scale models MUCH more than just a "Stunter".  Yeah, I do have a BIG sweet spot for the Ares, Argus, and some other I-Beams and such from my youth, but a real scale model or a "Scale Stunt" model really gets the juices flowing!

I am finishing up a modified Bob Hunt Mustang (I made it a "B" model) and it will be finished as Paul Mantz' racing plane #46.  I am going to add some exterior details to make it look a little bit more scale.  I do have a "Randy" plane to finish, but I will be doing some Warbirds much more, both for PAMPA class, profile, and Nostalgia 30/Classic.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Fred Cronenwett]

I talked with Wayne at the Contest and told him that his PBY was impressive. He did a great job keeping the classic lines of the PBY and yet turned it into a semi-scale stunt model.

Fred Cronenwett

[MarcusCordeiro]

A little gasoline to feed the fire...

This ship is on my building list for sure!

Marcus

[Avaiojet]

A little gasoline to feed the fire...

This ship is on my building list for sure!

Marcus

Hey! Hey! Marcus!

This one is on my building list for sure!

Charles

[Dave_Trible]

It seems to be a cycle that keeps repeating and with good reason.  Some of the most memorable and beautiful stunt planes have been semi-scale.  They're fun.  What has happened in the past is that designers keep pushing the envelope to be more scale like and soon find these airplanes aren't quite keeping up with the non scale purebreeds.  So the competition edge brings it back.  Then maybe it's the jet styled ships,  then classics.   The new worlds of power we now have could make the next semi scale wave really exciting!

Dave

[Tim Wescott]

A little gasoline to feed the fire...

This ship is on my building list for sure!

Marcus

Hey Marcus -- it's definitely Flying Models.  What issue?  If it's post-1977 I may have that in my library.

[Tim Wescott]

Having seen pictures of a stunt Piper Cub and that PBY, I really want to do a Westland Lysander or one of the Cessnas in the C-34 through C-195 line.

I think one of those would just look so impressive in the level inverted parts.

I just need to get up my nerve, I guess.

[Trostle]

What issue? 

Flying Models, Jan 76.

[Randy Cuberly]

I don't want to start a Row...but the only way to really make Scale stunters truly competitive at the top levels is to return to the 40 point appearance schedule...a lot of those extra points were for "Realism".  Modern competitive stunters are realistic only in that they FLY!

Randy Cuberly

[Tim Wescott]

I don't want to start a Row...but the only way to really make Scale stunters truly competitive at the top levels is to return to the 40 point appearance schedule...a lot of those extra points were for "Realism".  Modern competitive stunters are realistic only in that they FLY!

I think I've seen that particular row, here, with good points on both sides.

[Mark Scarborough]

Hey I would support 40 points for appearance

jus tsayin,,,,,

[Tom Niebuhr]

Randy,
No one has said that stunt has to be a scale contest. If fact, a totally scale stunter would not fly very well. My only gripe with the current 20 points is that the description of what to look for should always include the 4 old categories.

Billy, Keith, and Bob McDonald have been very successful with their airplanes. It will  always take a good pilot at the handle, no matter what airplane is used.

I am also glad that there are several areas now having total scale contests. This is healthy for CL.

[Randy Cuberly]

Randy,
No one has said that stunt has to be a scale contest. If fact, a totally scale stunter would not fly very well. My only gripe with the current 20 points is that the description of what to look for should always include the 4 old categories.

Billy, Keith, and Bob McDonald have been very successful with their airplanes. It will  always take a good pilot at the handle, no matter what airplane is used.

I am also glad that there are several areas now having total scale contests. This is healthy for CL.

Tom,
My point is that as long as there is no advantage in flying a scale like (I didn't say anything about a full scale stunter...I didn't just start doing this last week) stunter it's not likely to happen very much at the top eschelons of stunt.   I think current practice bears that out.
The real advantage in appearace points  for the scale like stunter is primarily what made them competitive with the conventional airplanes.  Without that advantage they simply are not as likely to win or even be used.

I'm not on a soap box to return to the 40 point appearance schedule...I really don't care either way.  However we tried several years ago to pass a rule to return to that and it lost by a large majority.  The major emphasis of the opposition is actually on having no appearance points at all.

I build my own airplanes but I'm not in either camp and really don't care personally what the rules are as long as they're the same for everyone.

My point is simply that it's easier to be competitive in the expert class with a conventional stunter under the current rules.

Randy Cuberly

[wwwarbird]

Having seen pictures of a stunt Piper Cub and that PBY, I really want to do a Westland Lysander or one of the Cessnas in the C-34 through C-195 line.

I think one of those would just look so impressive in the level inverted parts.

I just need to get up my nerve, I guess.

  Thanks for the kind words above on the PBY guys.

 I've considered the Cessna 195 quite a few times. It's a great looking airplane and the scale profile outline could easily be "cheated" into very reasonable stunt proportions. If you study the 195 the airfoil centerline to thrust line isn't really that far off, no worse than a typical low wing design, actually better than most. Just nail the vertical CG with the leadouts and you'd be good to go.

 I don't think it would look quite as odd flying inverted as PBY though.

[Gary Schrader]

 I like any plane that looks realistic. Here are some photos of my nearly completed semi-scale P-40 for 1/2a. Own design. 30" span approx. 165 sq.". weight as is with no color finish or fuel tank 8.2oz. Will finish soon as i am in the mood. Then must finish my williams Bearcat reduced to 50" span and 425sq.". Going to power with Satio 30.

Happy Flying and building to all.

Gary

[Gary Schrader]

Photos of williams Bearcat for Satio 30, 50" span. Even used scale sonic-tronic hinges as used in original article. Character building exercise along with the rib cutting. Been putting off finishing as I am scared I will stuff up during finishing as often happens.

Cheers Gary

[Balsa Butcher]

NorCal flier Brian Moore's P-40. Modified RSM kit. He does not post here but I'm sure won't mind me posting this picture. Power is a Super Tigre 46. Very good flier. 

[Avaiojet]

Gary,

Nice workmanship on those two models. Kudos for each one. 

Your "William's" Bearcat, is that Al Williams?

My favorit aircraft of all times is the Al William's F3F-1.

I'll be looking forward to seeing it completed.

Charles

[Tom Niebuhr]

Here are some examples of very good flying semi-scale stunt ships.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Charlie Reeves sent me these pictures of Ron Harding's incredible P-40

[MarcusCordeiro]

That P40 is simply amazing!!!!
As are the other ships as well.
Guys, keep those pics coming...

Marcus

[Tom Niebuhr]

And more:

[Tom Niebuhr]

Gleason's Cub and Tom's Curtiss Swift for OTS

[Avaiojet]

O..........My Gosh!!

A millian kudos to Ron Harding's incredible P-40, and outstanding it is.

Real airbrush work and all! A million more Kudos!!   

This kind of work makes you want to go finish a model.

Thanks for those photos!

Charles

[FLOYD CARTER]

This "Cub" built from Don Hutchinson plans.  It is a fine stunter.  I added a few scale features.  Power is OS46LA.

Floyd

[Don Hutchinson AMA5402]

Here are a few more from my drafting board and workshop. These all fly very well, Joe Gilbert has won a bunch of contests with the T-6G, the SBD does as well as I can fly it and the Vega is a Lew McFarland classic airplane.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Here is Sparky's Supermarine Racer

[Don Hutchinson AMA5402]

 I have one of these also, the Tucker version, Magnum 36 XL power. Need to fly it more often! Have more airplanes than time to use them!

[wwwarbird]

 Ok, what's the story and/or history on the Ron Harding P-40? That thing is awesome!

[Steve Thomas]

Any flight reports on the semi-scale HC Quek Yak 9, as kitted by Mike Griffin? I've got one half-built, but it'll be a little while before it's in the air.

[Geoff Goodworth]

Welshman Noel Stephenson designed a range of semi-scale Spitfires and had three of them published by Aeromodeller. Two were actually free plans included with the Magazine.

He used scale outlines but different scales. One, approx 45" span had the wing at 1.25":foot, the fuselage 1":foot with tail feathers 1.5":foot. All Noel's designs used the same proportions and he scaled the plans up and down for the size he wanted.

Here are two pics that Noel sent me.

Noel devised a clever, but heavy way of achieving the double curvature of the fuselage and I can't help but wonder whether a moulded fuselage would be lighter and permit proportions closer to the same scale.

Then there is the Shoestring that Bob Reeves and I designed around the Pat Johnston designed P-40 wing—the Brodak kit and ARC/ARF. I have one more profile version on the board at present and the one after that will be full fuselage—probably with the engine mounted like the profile with the cylinder inside the cheek cowl.

[Avaiojet]

Here's that great P-40 designed by Charlie Bauer. I'm told it flies really well with that thick airfoil. 2.25" I believe.

Charles

[Steve Helmick]

But I rather prefer model airplanes that look like model airplanes. The Bob Palmer Thunderbird II and the Guillows Barnstormer are great looking examples of what I mean. There is a 1:1 scale plane that I do admire, for the same reason, a local design, in fact. See the picture.  Steve

[Bill Little]

But I rather prefer model airplanes that look like model airplanes. The Bob Palmer Thunderbird II and the Guillows Barnstormer are great looking examples of what I mean. There is a 1:1 scale plane that I do admire, for the same reason, a local design, in fact. See the picture.  Steve

Hi Steve,

In fact I like ALL model airplanes, especially those which are meant for stunt competition!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Walter Hicks]

Laser 200, I build this one from Gid Adkisson plans , Saito 72 740 sq , 63" span flew well


<a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/kickercoach12/media/Laser01_JPG-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j262/kickercoach12/Laser01_JPG-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Laser01_JPG-1.jpg"/>[/url]

[Chris McMillin]

I always liked this one.
Chris...
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/Inferalanding/3-17-06-12Aud.jpg

[Paul Taylor]

Seems like this guy built a few scale planes?


https://www.google.com/search?q=windy+urtnowski&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i%7C0%3Bd%7CBp82S4mlDvG2gM%3A

[Paul Taylor]

And this guy is not too shabby either

https://www.google.com/search?q=windy+urtnowski&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i%7C2%3Bd%7CMNwFSb_IxLBP7M%3A

[Will Hinton]

Let's see: so far the score for me is 3 F9F Cougars, two Piper Pawnees, 1 P-40 Warhawk (Magnum kit-bashed) and various others while in the Navy that I can't seem to recall.  Yes, I love semi-scale because it gives me access to those beautiful designs from WW 2 and others shortly after as well as current civilian ships.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Here is one Will's F9Fs

[Tom Niebuhr]

Here is Will's latest Pawnee. You can see more on this beauty in the Building Techniques forum under Sloooooooooooow build.

[Will Hinton]

hey, thanks Tom!!  I was too lazy to hunt those down!  That was nice of you.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Ed Ruane,
Ref reply #38, can you tell us more about the B-25 pictured with your Bearcat??

[Avaiojet]

Soon!

How soon?

Real soon!

Charles

[Bill Little]

Tom
 That B25 is a RC plane.  I guy who was flying over on the RC field carried it over so we could take a picture of them together. Maybe he offered to launch my plane as I see the stooge is hooked up. Hard to remember even six months ago.
Ed

It looks about the same size as the Del Gatto Classic Legal B-25, except the Del Gatto model does not have the gull wing.  I really do hope to have one of these and have made a "kit" of the parts.  If I can break out of my "depression", I will have one built.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Avaiojet]

It looks about the same size as the Del Gatto Classic Legal B-25, except the Del Gatto model does not have the gull wing.  I really do hope to have one of these and have made a "kit" of the parts.  If I can break out of my "depression", I will have one built.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Bill,

That B-25 could be an ARF? If it is or not, you might attempt assembling an ARF R/C model and do it up for CL. 20 hours or so and you could be in the air! A relaxing build.

I may look around for a good twin ARF and do just that. I have two .25's.

Charles

[Bill Little]

Bill,

That B-25 could be an ARF? If it is or not, you might attempt assembling an ARF R/C model and do it up for CL. 20 hours or so and you could be in the air! A relaxing build.

I may look around for a good twin ARF and do just that. I have two .25's.

Charles

Hi Charles,

If I were doing a scale model I would look at doing that.  But, since I am looking at a stunt plane,  I will go with the Del Gatto model.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[EddyR]

I think this is it. All foam but a different decal set. It was very light even with batteries.
http://www.bananahobby.com/5-ch-fms-green-giant-b-25-mitchell-bomber-rc-warbird-airplane-arf.html