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Author Topic: Safety Thongs  (Read 7307 times)

Offline john e. holliday

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Safety Thongs
« on: July 20, 2010, 08:17:41 AM »
To Paul mainly as I couldn't find the icon to reply to your post on the Cheesehead flying.  I too do not use a thong when I am first teaching a new flyer.  If the get dizzy or having trouble it is easier to take the handle and let them sit down.  Then when ready they can take the handle.  If someone has a problem with that they have not tried to teach a newbie.  I got a brother and sister soloed in one afternoon using my technique.  One would get dizzy and sit down while the other would start flying.  About six or seven tanks of fuel and they were on their own using the safety thong as I was on the outside ueling and starting.  Big secret is short tanks of fuel.  I think we were averaging about 25 to 30 laps each flight once they soloed.   H^^
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Online Paul Taylor

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 08:30:10 AM »
Bingo! Thanks Doc.
Yes after Tyler got the hang of it he did put the thong on.
I locked the other thread cause it just chaps my butt when folks try and suck the fun out of a great day. They always look for the negitive.
Paul
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Offline Marvin Denny

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 08:48:41 AM »
   After having taught beginners for some 60 years now (and still going) I agree with what doc has said.  Short flights and lots of them and NO THONG as long as the instructor is having to remain in the circle with the student.
  I agree with Paul---some people seem to have to "flame" some threads, and they need to be shut down.

  bigiron
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 10:31:50 AM »
  At KidVEnture, we use the "short tank" method also. We have light weight thongs on the handle, and I always put it on the student. We usually only fly from 12 to 15 laps, and when a kid gets dizzy I just help hold themselves up. In ten years of doing this, I can't remember a kid ever falling down. I like to put the thong on the child, as I sometimes have to switch hands during the flight to stay ahead of them. I agree wholeheartedly, short flights and lots of them are the way to go. We leave for Oshkosh in a week! y1
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Online Paul Taylor

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 12:50:28 PM »
It is hard to hold a kid up when he out weighs you and is just a little taller as well. And short tanking them 1/2a's will make a very short run. Chris, Joe, myself and my son did the kid venture in 2008. What a fun time.
Paul
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Offline dave siegler

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 05:40:09 PM »
  At KidVEnture, we use the "short tank" method also. We have light weight thongs on the handle, and I always put it on the student. We usually only fly from 12 to 15 laps, and when a kid gets dizzy I just help hold themselves up. In ten years of doing this, I can't remember a kid ever falling down. I like to put the thong on the child, as I sometimes have to switch hands during the flight to stay ahead of them. I agree wholeheartedly, short flights and lots of them are the way to go. We leave for Oshkosh in a week! y1
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

At Kidventure I put the thong on my wrist.  But that is very early training.

When you get a little further into it, handing off, and getting back the airplane from a student is required.  I don't know how you can do that in a safe way with a thong.  Note I ALWAYS use thong.  I am not anti thong.  I just wonder how you can safely had off wiht one?
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 06:33:16 PM »
Dave, Paul

I have a different take on this idea.  I cheat, I use my U/Tronics and a throttle equipped engine.  If the student starts to get dizzy I just slow the plane down for a few laps.  As for the thong I use a 3 foot long one that is on my wrist.  Handing off to the student is easy with my dual handle setup.  See picture.  It also helps that I am left handed and fly with my left hand which is why the throttle is on the left handle.
The picture was taken before I changed the thong.  

The throttle also allows me, if we are flying over short grass of pavement to throttle back and land, change students and take back off without having to restart the engine.

Clancy
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Offline Scott Hartford

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 08:25:40 PM »
I figure these guys are not dumb, and safety is not being overlooked, so you do whatever you feel comfortable with! Those pictures seem to indicate a flyaway would need a really big tank to get anywhere on the farm, so what's the harm? Didn't see too many spectators in harms way so the Safety Police can just move along, nothing to see here! H^^ Actually I didn't notice anything about a thong, I just saw a guy teaching some kids to fly, and I liked it!  H^^ Keep on doing your thing!

Offline Clayton Berry

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 06:48:39 PM »
I've only been doing this CL thing a few years.  1964, I think.  I've never let a handle leave my hand, nor have I seen anyone else do it.  Hell, I'd actually like to see a hot Flite Streak fly off across the parking lot and put a nice big dent in some woman's Ferrari.  Hopefully she'll be hopping mad and sporting DDs.

I use 'em when I have to. 

They're a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, in my opinion.  Sort of like Peabody.  He's a solution.  Worse than the problem, no matter what it is.  Peabody, that is.  Thongs?  Sheesh.  I remember when I saw my first thong.  Three of them, actually.  1986, Daytona Beach.  Holy smoke.  Whatever it takes to keep my Nobler from hitting the ground...  I'll use a thong to keep people happy.  Heck, I'll wear a thong if it makes people happy.  I'm for everyone being happy.

And uh, like there's gonna be some busty lady in a Ferrari anywhere near where I fly?  Somehow, I don't think so.
Clayton - forever busy committing random acts of coolness

Offline thomas farmer

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 07:22:36 PM »
I don,t believe in safety thongs for aerobatics,I wear mine every time I fly. I have not seen or have had a fly away in the fifty plus years of sport or aerobatic flying. Tom Farmer

Offline thomas farmer

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 07:28:40 PM »
I think Clayton might need a cold shower.

Offline Clayton Berry

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 08:31:18 PM »
Nah, I'm fine.  A cold front.  That'd be nice.  Too hot to fly.  Or do anything else besides traversing between the A/C equipped abode and the A/C equipped mini van and yet another A/C equipped structure. 
Clayton - forever busy committing random acts of coolness

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 10:23:00 PM »
Well, Clayton, I don't know about the woman and Ferrari, but we use to have a fairly "busty" woman in a 'vette show up at the parking lot to watch us fly! ;D  I know, it was a 'vette and not a Ferrari, but...........

And I don't think it would actually make ANYONE happy to see you flying in a thong, or even wearing one.......... LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Hope to see you soon!
Bill
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Offline Clayton Berry

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2010, 04:17:10 AM »
Hey, she could be driving Mack truck.  The dent would still be there.  Cool.

But, seriously.  I've never once seen where a thong was 'used', or lack of one was regretted.  I heard about some combat incident where the lines wrapped around some power lines -  and an 'incident' occurred.  I like fireworks, as long as someone else is lighting the fuze.  And them combat guys are of a different breed.

Perhaps some anecdotal evidence of a thong's ultimate use could be provided by someone.  But again, I think it are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. 
Clayton - forever busy committing random acts of coolness

Offline frank carlisle

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2010, 04:31:12 AM »
I love a thong....especially when there is a tramp stamp tattooed just above it.  #^
When they first instituted the wearing of a thong I had a difficult time stretching out for the overhead eights. Linda refers to them as "fanny floss".
But really-----at Sig one year I forgot to put the thong on and I lost all of that flight which was one of my better patterns. So---I don't resist and make sure the thong is in place.
In practice sessions I usually just skip the thong because I have a good grip.
I think that as we age the thong might come in handy if a pilot were to have a heart attack or some other difficulty.
Frank Carlisle

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2010, 06:54:32 AM »
How does the use/non-use of a safety thong affect the AMA liability insurance coverage?  If there was a non-thonged flyaway that caused damage or personal injury, would AMA say "See Ya?"
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Offline Leester

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2010, 07:00:42 AM »
The thongs are for a reason as I found out. I've been flying only about 5 years, 3 or so years ago on take off my lines snagged weeds and the plane came in on me. This was the first time this had ever happened to me, I had no idea what to expect. When the plane finnally regained line tension it yanked the handle out of my hand (40 size) but the thong did it's job. Lucky for me it was only about 5' off the ground and went straight down. I thought I had a good grip on the handle but obviously I didn't. We fly at a smallish airport and an incident of a fly away I'm sure would have caused a big problem. I ALWAYS use my thong, I also don't attempt to train anyone either LL~ LL~.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2010, 07:54:45 AM »
How does the use/non-use of a safety thong affect the AMA liability insurance coverage?  If there was a non-thonged flyaway that caused damage or personal injury, would AMA say "See Ya?"

Yes, the AMA would probably tell you to go on down the road.  It has happened before in accidents not thong related.  But, when training we try to be more alert.

I too thought I had a good grip.  Nothing like a Nobler after take off and starting the RW.  The plane turned and leveled off about head high coming straight at me.  I thought about catching it and decided to side step.  It hit end of lines and handle came out of my hand.  It also destroyed the inboard wing.  My wrist hurt for several days after ward.  I have witnesses as it was at a Tulsa contest years ago.  De is supposed to be rebuilding it. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline frank carlisle

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2010, 08:11:50 AM »
Have you ever seen how R/C planes are prone to crash on any spot, anywhere? I've seen a few fly away c/l planes but they didn't get far. And sure it could really hurt to get hit by one but the odds of being missed are very high. Same deal with r/c but when there's a fly away there's no telling how far or where they're going to hit. Right or wrong the thong rule exists and I'll use one. I guess an umbilical thong attaching the radio to the plane wouldn't work for r/c----but still.............
Frank Carlisle

Offline dave siegler

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2010, 08:59:08 AM »
This doesn't asnwer the question. 

For instruction of a new pilot, the 5- 10 flights it takes to go solo, what should you do?  When the student is mostly flying solo, a thong realy gets in the way. 
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2010, 09:18:55 AM »
If they hae soloed, yes they use the thong.  My grandson for some unkown reason had the handle come out of his hands.  He said he felt a jerk and it was gone.  Yes he did have the safety thong on.  Right now I know of only one event that does not require a safety thong and that is racing.  By the time they get to racing planes they should be able to hold them.
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Online Paul Taylor

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2010, 09:38:02 AM »
I don't think a thong is used in combat??

For the record... I use a thong every time I fly. I think they are a good thing. Anything that might add safety to our sport / hobby. And as said above, a plane coming across the circle on slack lines will give a big jerk when it hits the end of the lines on the other side. Or like someone said a pilot falls while in the circle. I wear a thong... on my wrist. LL~
When training it makes it a little hard. In my case, if we had been in a different setting a thong might have been used.

If it makes anyone feel any better... Now after we launch Tyler runs out to the circle and comes up behind my right shoulder, slips the thong on and grabs the handle. So he is flying with a thong now. <=
Paul
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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2010, 09:43:23 AM »
A thong is a good safety feature when flying with a stooge.  Mine is fastened to the down side of the handle and I put the loop over a stake.  I walk behind the lines on the way to the center, the theory being that if something goes wrong and the plane gets loose it will pull full down and nose over quickly.  Hopefully with nothing worse than a broken prop. 
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Offline Marvin Denny

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2010, 10:11:40 AM »
I don't think a thong is used in combat??


  Oh yes it does require one in combat.   That is where the latest "thong requirement" started.  That was because of a quite expensive (to AMA)  flyaway at one of the Lincoln NE nationals.  It took out a very large portion of the base where we were flying.  The tower, fire dept, and a host of other concerns had to go to their back-up or emergency power systems.   That evening at the MACE meeting  it wes decided to install safety thongs on combat models so such an occurance would not occur again.  So an emergency safety rules proposal was submitted and approved.   My son and I had our handles so equipped the next morning, ready for competition even though the rule proposal had not gone into effect at thet time.  We also had enough clothsline rope to equip anyone else who wished to put one on their handle, could.
  In my opinion, AMA  saw what the MACA  SIG did, and over reacted and broad brushed all CL except racing to require thongs.  Yes I use them except when initially training new fliers while giving dual  instruction.  As SOON as the new flier is capable of flying hands off by the instructor, I require them to use the thong.

  Bigiron
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2010, 11:15:38 AM »
as I stated previously, I use a 3 foot thong when training new CL pilots.  If they let go of the handle at least the model is going to crash close to the circle.  I have had a young student get dizzy and just let go of the handle.  The thong is no problem unless the student is much taller than me.  I try to stay centred in the circle and the student walks around me.  This helps in two ways. It helps prevent dizziness in the student by them walking in a circle rather than standing in one spot and turning around.  Second it gets them to concentrate on staying in line with the model.  I have had students get 90 degrees behind the model and try to control it by twisting their wrist in place of raising and lowering their arm.   I cannot do it!

I have had one crash that tried to take the handle out of my hand.  At the1988 NATS my 76 inch twin 14+ lb scale model's wing failed and it turned and flew across the center of the circle.  When it hit the end of the lines it JURKED but I was notwearing a thong.  I was wearing TWO thongs.  I had wrapped my handle with 1/8 in nylon cord for better grip and made loops on each end of the wrapping.  That way if it pulled out of my hand I could still control it by raising my arm.  It worked but the model fit in a small trash bag to take it home. 
Clancy
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Offline John Miller

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2010, 12:39:58 PM »
I've personally witnessed two cases where handles were jerked or released from the pilot. One was a case where the plane flew across the circle. These were pre-thong days, but in this case since the plane was low, and the handle was dragged through the grass, it didn't get far before it hit the ground.

The second case was different, and except for extreem good luck, no damage was suffered. The maiden flight on a buddies Sterling Spitfire in So. Cal. At the top of the wing over, he was hit with a jolt of static electricity, so bad that he involuntarily opened hus grip on the handle, an EZ Just. The plane sort of leveled out, making big lazy circles around the swinging handle. He had a full load of fuel on board so it continued to climb until we could no longer see it, just flashes of light reflecting from the wings.

When the engine quit, we watched trying to see where the breeze was taking it. Eventually we spotted it, still making those big circles, and the wind was moving it to the N.E. at about 5-10 MPH.

We didn't have cars, so we jumped on our bikes and took off after it. It went down in a bunch of houses, and we were sure it probably went through some ones large glass window, or worse. hit someone in their back yard.

When we found it, we also found that we had been extreemly lucky. The plane was hanging by the lines, which were drapped over the roof of the house. No one was home, so we disconnected the handle, pulled the plane and the lines free, packed the plane and parts onto our bikes, and left.

It was pure luck no one, or nothing was damaged that day.

Using thongs has, and will prevent accidents.
Getting a line on life. AMA 1601

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2010, 02:16:55 PM »
It's a definite advantage to be able to lock a thread, to prevent any sort of reply (a polite one, of course).

How can I get authorized to do that?

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Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2010, 03:24:52 PM »
Gents,
 I always try to be as safe as possible. I had my boys out a couple of months ago and was teaching without the thong on. I held my hand about a 1" or so in front of the handle. Just in case they let go and also to pull up when they were headed for the ground. You definitely need to be consciences of the first time you say to them, you got it? How do I know this; when I was around 4-6 years old I went out with dad for my first flight. First couple laps he held the handle then we where flying just past the side of the circle where everyone pits and those famous words came out "you got it" I said yes and he let go. when I felt how hard the plane pulled me, I let go of the handle ~^. the plane flew about 30 feet into a tree. the image of, who I don't know, retrieving that airplane from the tree has stuck with me for 40 plus years. I think I was the reason they became mandatory at the umac field. This was probably around 69 or 70.

 I agree wholeheartedly with teaching without a thong until they're capable of solo. Just make sure they got it! y1
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2010, 03:49:51 PM »
Gentlemen:  I offer no apology for my crusade for safety thongs.  I once was clobbered by a flyaway C/L plane. The pilot did not have a safety thong.  He got dizzy, fell down, and let go.

Fortunately, I was wearing a heavy jacket, so I only suffered some bruises.

A foot or so higher, and the results would have been quite different.

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Offline George

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2010, 06:58:52 PM »
Have you ever seen how R/C planes are prone to crash on any spot, anywhere? I've seen a few fly away c/l planes but they didn't get far. And sure it could really hurt to get hit by one but the odds of being missed are very high. Same deal with r/c but when there's a fly away there's no telling how far or where they're going to hit. Right or wrong the thong rule exists and I'll use one. I guess an umbilical thong attaching the radio to the plane wouldn't work for r/c----but still.............

But still, you can fly RC while wearing a thong...just might get a few laughs!!  >:D  ;D  S?P

George
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2010, 09:27:45 PM »
I don't think a thong is used in combat??


  Oh yes it does require one in combat.   That is where the latest "thong requirement" started.  That was because of a quite expensive (to AMA)  flyaway at one of the Lincoln NE nationals.  It took out a very large portion of the base where we were flying.  The tower, fire dept, and a host of other concerns had to go to their back-up or emergency power systems.   That evening at the MACE meeting  it wes decided to install safety thongs on combat models so such an occurance would not occur again.  So an emergency safety rules proposal was submitted and approved.   My son and I had our handles so equipped the next morning, ready for competition even though the rule proposal had not gone into effect at thet time.  We also had enough clothsline rope to equip anyone else who wished to put one on their handle, could.
  In my opinion, AMA  saw what the MACA  SIG did, and over reacted and broad brushed all CL except racing to require thongs.  Yes I use them except when initially training new fliers while giving dual  instruction.  As SOON as the new flier is capable of flying hands off by the instructor, I require them to use the thong.

  Bigiron

But a thong does no good if the lines get cut.  I seen several at the 2004 worlds.  Also at another combat meet I was spectating at.  At the speeds the fast planes go, it doesn't give the shut off much time to work.  
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 02:17:55 PM by Bill Little »
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2010, 01:42:53 PM »
I have been flying control line for well over 50 years now, without ever wearing a safety thong. Maybe the first 30 or so was out of pure ignorance! The last 20 years have been flying by myself ar a very remote location (truly nothing to hit or damage except myself!). So again, no thong!
  If I ever fly elsewhere, or in company, then a thong it must be! It really is a no brainer under those circumstances, mind you, it really is going to feel awkward after all this time.

Andrew. 
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2010, 04:28:14 PM »
But still, you can fly RC while wearing a thong...just might get a few laughs!!

  If they are wearing a thong, laughing would not be my first reaction!

    Brett

Offline Phil Coopy

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2010, 05:58:54 PM »
C'mon, how much extra effort is it to use a thong? n~

Phil

Offline Clayton Berry

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2010, 06:39:42 PM »
Hi, Phil.

Very little extra effort.  Perhaps on that note, I may just slip the ol' wrist thru it for awhile.  We'll see.  Then again, when I talk with my brother abut releasing any one of his three classes of FF planes he runs Nelsons with - it seems a little pointless.  Those things honk, and there be no genuine control as they blast up towards outer space. 

Hopefully I won't need an incident in my life to change my tune.
Clayton - forever busy committing random acts of coolness

Offline Louis Rankin

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2010, 07:08:44 PM »
Be careful or this thread may be called a dead horse too.  y1 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Louis Rankin
Somerville Tennessee
AMA 10859

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2010, 08:16:41 AM »
The administator has the power and my permission to lock this.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Clayton Berry

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2010, 01:13:43 PM »
The administator has the power and my permission to lock this.

Why would anyone want to lock a thread?  This one especially.  Just a few folks talking about thongs.  Am I missing something?
Clayton - forever busy committing random acts of coolness

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2010, 07:27:53 AM »
You didn't see Louis' post? H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Dalton Hammett

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2010, 11:07:06 AM »
I know this subject has been around before but as our group does try to help a lot of youngsters I'll resppond too.  We have several ways of helping youngsters learn but the safety thong is always a part of it.   Using an extra long one can make it easy for one individual to tke control of the plane,  we also have a dual-control handle that makes it easy for the instructor to take control.   I am lucky enough to own and maintain the field that our club flys on and I enjoy people using it.  The only thing I ask of the club is that they do it safely.  We have had fly aways on the field and I personally had one several years ago.  Mine was caused by grass catching a line as someone else outlined - I won't guess on the cause of the others.  Before my plane crashed the lines caught on other  things and the plane stayed in the area.  It gave me a real scare because of the people around.   I think the important thing is there are normally spectators watching what we do , especially when kids are involved.  It would be very poor publicity for our sport if someone was hit and even worse if the media pointed out that the involved flyers were not following safety rules.  Thats the kind of thing that can cost flying sites.

I don't think there is ever a reason to teach someone to do it wrong and as long as we accept the AMA as our governing organization, like them or not,  we should feel obligated to follow the safety rules.   
Dalton Hammett  
Albion, Pa.
Bean Hill Flyers
AMA  29918

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2010, 08:41:55 PM »
Good points, Dalton. In our club's futile efforts to get a permanent (and good) flying site, the things that really seem to get us some respect is the "steel cables", the $1,000,000 liability insurance, the safety cones, the safety thong and the pull test requirements. Of course, they are still building soccer fields and skateboard parks, while we get nothing but empty promises... R%%%% Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2010, 08:13:33 AM »
Can I sue the person or persons responsible for the broken ankle my grandaughter suffered while skate boarding at one of the special built parks?  If it were flat I could fly there as it is not used too much during the day.   S?P
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Fernandez

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2010, 11:26:12 AM »
Can I sue the person or persons responsible for the broken ankle my grandaughter suffered while skate boarding at one of the special built parks?  If it were flat I could fly there as it is not used too much during the day.   S?P

Of course you can sue !!! Its the American way.

Hell, if that old bag who poured her coffee in her lap can sue MacDonalds for eighty thousand dollars, we can sue anyone. ( Gee, how was I to know that hot coffee might burn my crotch??)

What was it that Shakespear said? "The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers"
I think ole Billy was on to something.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline Dalton Hammett

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Re: Safety Thongs
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2010, 01:09:40 PM »
Steve

    I wish I know some good answers for that problem.  Best of luck finding sites...........

Dalton H.
Dalton Hammett  
Albion, Pa.
Bean Hill Flyers
AMA  29918


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