Author Topic: Which engine? (Read 3730 times)

Richard Logston · « **on:** June 10, 2014, 04:21:08 PM »

I posted my Dynamic on this forum with a O&R23FRV engine that I can't get to run, so thinking of installing a Fox 15 or an OS25FP. I'm leaning toward the OS since I should be able to fly it on 60 Foot lines. The Fox would be limited to 50 foot.
What say you control line experts. I'm getting back into U/C and have only two flights to my credit since my control line days of the sixties. Felt good getting that feel through the lines again! Richard

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2014, 04:33:28 PM »

I don't know how big the plane is, but my feeling is that if it can fly on a Fox 15, then a 25FP will be way too much engine.

What do you want to do with the plane?

Maybe the best thing to do with it is to put the 23 back in it, and put it on display pending figuring out what's going on with the engine (or getting another one that works). Then build a Sig Skyray for the FP 25 and fly the pants off of it.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2014, 05:13:52 PM »

If you have a running Fox .15 that would be more like the power of the O&R. We've flown many a .15 size on .012X 60' lines- especially if not stunting much. That OS .25 will pull your airplane too fast to be much fun.

Dave

Richard Logston · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2014, 05:46:50 PM »

Thanks for your suggestions folks, just as I figured the OS is too much power for the old timer Dynamic. I built this plane just for a trip back in time, don't expect much but going around in circles. I do have a OS 25 on a firecat that fly's nice. I tried starting the O&R 23 FRV engine a little while ago and I suspect faulty needle valve for this engine. The engine will pop on every flip of the prop but acts like too much fuel coming out the exhaust. Had to turn the needle all the way in then back out to 1 turn. Engine after much flipping will eventually start but will only keep running with finger choking. It seems to have fair compression, I did install a 10-6 wood prop. I think the problem is fuel draw related. Besides the OS 25 being too much power it is also much heaver than the Fox 15. I had a Fox 15 with throttle way back in the early days of flying RC and it was a good engine responding to my wishes. The O&R looks new as though right out of the box. hardly any marks on mounting lugs. But one never knows what parts may have been put in the past. I think the needle was from a Fox since it is a two hole type. I did solder one hole closed and it did help a little. I don't know if anyone repairs these old engines any more, might consider that option if available. Richard

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2014, 06:08:33 PM »

Actually and OSFP.10 will give you a little more power than the O&R 23 and about the same as a Fox.15 and will be a whole lot easier to start and deal with.

Might have to add a little nose weight but it would still be a big improvement. The only thing I've ever heard Fox .15's were good for was "Hurling"...ask Brett Buck! He's a past "Hurling Champion" as well as being a past National Stunt Champion.

Randy Cuberly

Richard Logston · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2014, 10:58:33 PM »

Randy, Thanks for your input. I used to play high school baseball as a youngster but my hurling arm is not what it used to be. Richard

Brett Buck · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2014, 11:11:46 PM »

Quote from: Randy Cuberly on June 10, 2014, 06:08:33 PM

The only thing I've ever heard Fox .15's were good for was "Hurling"...ask Brett Buck! He's a past "Hurling Champion" as well as being a past National Stunt Champion.

Ahem - 3-time Champion of the Hurl, including the coveted 10-year Anniversary Trophy. And Deputy Commissioner of the Hurl (self-appointed). And, to date, the only simultaneous AMA National Stunt Champion and Champion of the Hurl (Hurl Sept 2005, Stunt July 2006).

I would however defer evaluations of the Fox 15 as an engine to the originator of the Hurl and its only Commissioner, Larry Fernandez.

Brett

George · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2014, 08:02:12 AM »

Quote from: Richard Logston on June 10, 2014, 05:46:50 PM

...I think the needle was from a Fox since it is a two hole type. I did solder one hole closed and it did help a little. I don't know if anyone repairs these old engines any more, might consider that option if available. Richard

Richard,

Why don't you try to get the O&R running on primes with the tank not connected. If successful you can bet it's in the fuel feed.

Is the tank mounted high enough that it will gravity feed and flood the engine?

Perhaps you might try adjusting the needle by starting with it closed, then open one turn and see if fuel is drawn into the fuel line. Open it up one turn at a time until it draws fuel.

I know this is basic stuff but sometimes we overlook something.

Good luck...and I don't hurl MY Foxes!

George

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2014, 09:27:41 AM »

All FRV O&R engines require the stamped metal venturi insert in order to run. The venturi is too big, and instead of fixing it, they just added the restrictor. Won't draw fuel without it.

Floyd

Richard Logston · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2014, 10:33:06 AM »

My engine has the venturi insert. Thanks everyone for your help and idea, I have tried them all before posting my problem. Will keep plugging along I suspect the wrong NV assy. If I find the cure I will post it here so no one else has to go through this. Maybe I should start getting my hurling arm in shape, It appears that Brett is the current champion and the one to displace as self appointed champion hurler. Richard

Brett Buck · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2014, 12:13:57 PM »

Quote from: Richard Logston on June 11, 2014, 10:33:06 AM

My engine has the venturi insert. Thanks everyone for your help and idea, I have tried them all before posting my problem. Will keep plugging along I suspect the wrong NV assy. If I find the cure I will post it here so no one else has to go through this. Maybe I should start getting my hurling arm in shape, It appears that Brett is the current champion and the one to displace as self appointed champion hurler. Richard

To be entirely clear, I am NOT the current champion. I would have to consult the archives to determine the current champion, as I was unavoidably called away (on official hurl business*, which is of course the only acceptable excusable absence per Rule 22, Paragraph e, as I am sure you are aware) during last year's Hurl. I can't reveal the full details of my task at this time, but I can assure you that exciting times are ahead for the Hurl!

Commissioner Larry and and his son Aaron Fernandez are the world experts on the actual running of Fox 15 Slantplugs (accept no substitutes!), so I defer to their experience.

Brett

*There were actually two bits of hurl business, and I can't give full details. Let it suffice to say that between Bud and I, anyone on the Biogenesis list needn't bother showing up in Davis this year.

Richard Logston · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2014, 01:34:28 PM »

Brett, I understand that Rule 22 paragraph e, is poorly written and open to one interpretation. But that being said I will continue my hurling training program so I am prepared to take on all comers. I'm like the gunslinger coming to town seeking out the fastest gun ( Hurler). Richard

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2014, 02:58:03 PM »

OH BOY!

This is going to be a great spectator year!

I can't wait to see all the tough competition..............

I'm rooting for Buck!

Jerry

PS: Unless Larry signs up.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2014, 03:39:52 PM »

A malady many O&Rs suffer is the breakdown of the cylinder base gasket which causes a crankcase leak resulting in the behavior you're describing. Get the engine in good light and look around the gasket at the top of the case. You can use oil or liquid soap, apply it to the gasket all around and roll the engine over. If you get bubbles there when the piston is going down, that's your problem. In many of them you can see chunks missing. It can be repaired but at a fairly high cost. The cylinder lugs have to be machined out and the cylinder removed. The gasket replaced and new lugs spot welded back in with the cylinder clamped in place to compress the gasket.

Richard Logston · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2014, 07:09:10 PM »

Randy, Sounds as though you are know a lot about O&R engines. There was a prior post saying the gasket can be replaced with JB-Weld in the area. Is the gasket a fiber type? I will check that out tonight. Richard

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #15 on:** June 11, 2014, 08:52:31 PM »

Quote from: Richard Logston on June 11, 2014, 07:09:10 PM

Randy, Sounds as though you are know a lot about O&R engines. There was a prior post saying the gasket can be replaced with JB-Weld in the area. Is the gasket a fiber type? I will check that out tonight. Richard

That was in a different thread, I think. I think it was Floyd Carter who suggested it, and Floyd's pretty smart.

I look at it this way: if the gasket is the problem, and you goober it up with JB Weld, and that doesn't fix things -- you're no worse off than when you started. If it does fix the problem -- you're done!

Richard Logston · « **Reply #16 on:** June 11, 2014, 10:42:49 PM »

OK, I took engine off test stand wiped any oil off the exterior and turning the prop slowly did notice a very slight wet weeping at the gasket area were cyl attaches. It is so little I just can't bring my self to think it would cause any problems. It appears to be some sort of soft gasket material. Why can't a person dig out the gasket clean the area with alcohol and press in some JB-Weld? I can get it to burn out the prime through the exhaust. Only once or twice has it ran beyond the prime and very poorly when it did for a few seconds. When I was a kid my O&R 19 sideport ran very well and started easy. ran it on spark and later changed it over to glow. As a kid in those days I thought it had a lot of power. Richard

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2014, 09:38:24 AM »

Quote from: Richard Logston on June 11, 2014, 01:34:28 PM

Brett, I understand that Rule 22 paragraph e, is poorly written and open to one interpretation. But that being said I will continue my hurling training program so I am prepared to take on all comers. I'm like the gunslinger coming to town seeking out the fastest gun ( Hurler). Richard

Richard has brought up a very good point, and yes Brett and I have discussed Rule 22 at length over the last six months. At first I didn't think it was a big deal,
but Brett made it very clear that if there is ANY grey area or wiggle room in the rules, that it would be exploited by Dave, as has been done in the past.(many times). As of now, there have been no changes to Rule 22, but Brett and I will be meeting next week end and iron it out.

The current Fox .15 Hurl Champion looks forward to doing battle with you Richard. See you in September.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Richard Logston · « **Reply #18 on:** June 12, 2014, 09:45:45 AM »

Would that be High Noon on main street! Richard

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2014, 12:07:19 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on June 10, 2014, 11:11:46 PM

Ahem - 3-time Champion of the Hurl, including the coveted 10-year Anniversary Trophy.

Brett, howz about posting a picture of the "Coveted 10-Year Anniversary Trophy"

Its been a few years and I sure some of the newcomers would enjoy seeing it.

And the story of how Fox Manufacturing stepped up to the plate in our support and provided us with three gold plated versions to celebrate the ten years of our prestigious event, is a story not to be forgotten.

I cant wait to see what they might do for the 20th Anniversary.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Tean

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #20 on:** June 12, 2014, 01:35:22 PM »

Larry,

Sounds like you are pretty optimistic that they will still be around by then.

Oh, speaking of being around.......Where have you been lately?

Hope to see you soon, GA

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #21 on:** June 12, 2014, 04:41:19 PM »

Quote from: Gerald Arana on June 12, 2014, 01:35:22 PM

Larry,

Sounds like you are pretty optimistic that they will still be around by then.

Oh, speaking of being around.......Where have you been lately?

Hangin new quarters on the el Camino. I'd like to have the body off by the end of the month.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Brett Buck · « **Reply #22 on:** June 12, 2014, 07:09:47 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on June 11, 2014, 08:52:31 PM

That was in a different thread, I think. I think it was Floyd Carter who suggested it, and Floyd's pretty smart.

I look at it this way: if the gasket is the problem, and you goober it up with JB Weld, and that doesn't fix things -- you're no worse off than when you started.

Except for having goobered J-B Weld all over your engine. I would use silicone as a test, at least you have a chance of getting that back off again.

Brett

Richard Logston · « **Reply #23 on:** June 14, 2014, 04:13:07 PM »

Well, Actually got the O&R 23 to run twice today. Had to open needle out about 5 turns and was able to turn needle in to get a faster run. Problem is I could not repeat the run with any regularity or at will. If I tried to start it with the needle 5 turns out it would most likely flood. So in order to get second start I turned needle all the way in and propped and propped until it was clear of excess fuel. Now turn needle out and hopefully it will start before flooding again. Otherwise it is hit or miss getting it to run. It ran fine on first long run, but second run it quit after a min or less. I might need to go to a fuel with nitro added. I'm running FAI fuel now but did add an 8oz Hobbico 1/2 fuel to the 1/2 gal FAI, ( 75Meth.25%sig castor) I don't know what the adds up to but bound to help some. Richard