Author Topic: RSM Kits (Read 13264 times)

Motorman · « **on:** August 05, 2015, 01:00:07 PM »

Couldn't get through on the phone so, thought I'd ask the populous. I need to build a plane that will take me to expert level.

Generally how are the RSM kits in quality and wood weight?

Do they come with a complete control system, are the push rods carbon tubes?

I'm looking at a modern stunter (Trivial Pursuit) and wondering if they come in electric version.

Does it come with adjustable lead outs and weight box?

Says it has a hardware package what's that?

Does it come with landing gear struts, mount on the wing or fuselage?

What are lucky boxes?

Thanks,
MM

frank mccune · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2015, 02:02:18 PM »

Hello Walter:

Why are you asking those questions here? It would be much better to call Eric Rule at 951-678-1406. Not only he could answer all of your questions, but he is a very nice person. I think that he is the head honcho at RSM.

Good luck,

Frank McCUNE

Motorman · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2015, 02:38:01 PM »

Why am I asking questions here? Any reason I shouldn't? Thanks for the advise but, I called a few times already.

MM

Mike Griffin · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2015, 04:09:49 PM »

If you leave a voice mail for Eric, he will call you back.

Mike

Larry Renger · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2015, 04:31:52 PM »

Eric is not only the head honcho, he is the designer, production manager, printer, balsa cutter delivery man and janitor.

eric rule · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2015, 05:14:00 PM »

Was out of the shop today. If you leave a voicemail I will return your telephone call.

Couldn't get through on the phone so, thought I'd ask the populous. I need to build a plane that will take me to expert level.

Generally how are the RSM kits in quality and wood weight?
** Since we sold over 400 kits last year and have been selling kits for over 19 years I would say they are very high quality. We were the first C/L company to go to laser cutting and have always used contest grade balsa. Just ask anyone on the forum if you don't believe me.

Do they come with a complete control system, are the push rods carbon tubes?
** Yes.

I'm looking at a modern stunter (Trivial Pursuit) and wondering if they come in electric version.
** Any glow powered stunt ship can be converted to electric. No problem whatever.

Does it come with adjustable lead outs and weight box?
** Yes

Says it has a hardware package what's that?
** Hardware package consists of the following:
Adjustable lead out guide,
Wing tip weight box,
lead out wires with eyelets and crimp sleeves.
bell crank
3/32 music wire,
carbon fiber push rod
flap & elevator horns

Does it come with landing gear struts, mount on the wing or fuselage?
** Depending upon the model they come with either wire or aluminum gear

What are lucky boxes?
** They are small boxes that sit inside the flap or elevator. You slide the horn legs into the Lucky Box and it provides you with a hard point mount so that the horn legs will not break through the flap or elevator. You can twist or tweak to your hearts content and you do not have to worry about breaking the control surface. Simple, inexpensive and they work!

Our hardware packages do not include hinges. That is because we used to put them in and everyone complained that what was in the hardware package was not the type of hinge they wanted to use. After hearing this for a couple of years and changing the type of hinges a number of times I just gave up and stopped including them.

If you have any other questions please feel free to call me at the shop. If I am busy or not there to answer just leave a voice mail with your phone number and I will call you back.

Eric Rule

Tony Drago · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2015, 05:52:43 PM »

RSM produces a very good selection of High Quality C/L/ kits. Check out his web site and you will see that he produces designs from some of the top experts in the country. Just a matter of choice. That's half the battle. The other half is up to the pilot holding the handle. Even though this is not baseball sight. Maury Wills was asked what did it take to get to the majors. His reply. Practice, Practice, Practice and More Practice. Find the plane that you feel is a good fit for you and hit the flying circles.

Mike Keville · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2015, 07:50:18 PM »

RSM kits and other products are among the finest in the hobby. Wood selection and other amenities are top-notch ... as is Eric himself - one of the finest, most honest and upright gentlemen you'll ever encounter.

Dwayne · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2015, 07:55:43 PM »

Quote from: eric rule on August 05, 2015, 05:14:00 PM

Was out of the shop today. If you leave a voicemail I will return your telephone call.

Couldn't get through on the phone so, thought I'd ask the populous. I need to build a plane that will take me to expert level.

Generally how are the RSM kits in quality and wood weight?
** Since we sold over 400 kits last year and have been selling kits for over 19 years I would say they are very high quality. We were the first C/L company to go to laser cutting and have always used contest grade balsa. Just ask anyone on the forum if you don't believe me.

Do they come with a complete control system, are the push rods carbon tubes?
** Yes.

I'm looking at a modern stunter (Trivial Pursuit) and wondering if they come in electric version.
** Any glow powered stunt ship can be converted to electric. No problem whatever.

Does it come with adjustable lead outs and weight box?
** Yes

Says it has a hardware package what's that?
** Hardware package consists of the following:
Adjustable lead out guide,
Wing tip weight box,
lead out wires with eyelets and crimp sleeves.
bell crank
3/32 music wire,
carbon fiber push rod
flap & elevator horns

Does it come with landing gear struts, mount on the wing or fuselage?
** Depending upon the model they come with either wire or aluminum gear

What are lucky boxes?
** They are small boxes that sit inside the flap or elevator. You slide the horn legs into the Lucky Box and it provides you with a hard point mount so that the horn legs will not break through the flap or elevator. You can twist or tweak to your hearts content and you do not have to worry about breaking the control surface. Simple, inexpensive and they work!

Our hardware packages do not include hinges. That is because we used to put them in and everyone complained that what was in the hardware package was not the type of hinge they wanted to use. After hearing this for a couple of years and changing the type of hinges a number of times I just gave up and stopped including them.

If you have any other questions please feel free to call me at the shop. If I am busy or not there to answer just leave a voice mail with your phone number and I will call you back.

Eric Rule

MM
Eric is first class all the way, as are his kits and products he sells.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2015, 08:04:27 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 05, 2015, 02:38:01 PM

Why am I asking questions here? Any reason I shouldn't? Thanks for the advise but, I called a few times already.

MM

   I'm surprised you felt a need to ask the question at all? For anyone who frequents this or any C/L forum, RSM's reputation should not be a question. I like his kits, and don't think I have ever heard any one with a problem with them, and you know if someone had a beef with one, it would be all over the forums. Some people you just can't please and would find something to complain about if it were built, finished and trimmed out right out of the box!
   I would like to make this statement to all who post the "has anyone built a Belchfire 500 and how does it fly?" type of question. If it's a C/L stunt model, in current production, or heck, even out of production, I'll guarantee you it's a "good airplane" or it wouldn't have been produced in any kind quantity. It's all up the the buyer/builder/flyer to make an airplane a good one or a bad one. If some one took the time and effort to design an airplane, build it, fly it in competition, engineer the kit and it sells, I'm confident that its a good airplane. Everything in RSM's catalog is a proven design with verifiable track records.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

RC Storick · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2015, 08:34:37 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 05, 2015, 02:38:01 PM

Why am I asking questions here? Any reason I shouldn't? Thanks for the advise but, I called a few times already.

MM

Any question is ok on this forum. He was wanting to know whats included in the kit.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2015, 10:17:53 PM »

I found everything he wanted to know on the RSM web site. And it takes more than an airplane to get you the Expert level. That doesn't come in a box.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2015, 11:01:10 PM »

I don't see anything wrong with the question and I doubt Eric does either. Eric's kits are some of the best ever produced. Eric is a real true Gentleman and does what He does for love of the Hobby. It keeps him young...

I have built several of Eric's kits in the past, and currently have 12 of them still in the box.

Also I have built two Trivial Pursuits in he past and have one currently partially framed up.

I have a kit of Eric's that I am just beginning to build that I would reccommend to you. It's a relatively new kit for RSM by Kaz Minto called the Blue Max Eternal. Kaz has developed this stunter over period of more than 25 years. This is the first time a kit has been offered for it. It's a great flying airplane and very good looking. It's a very fine kit and the plans are really first class with lots of notes from Kaz.

Mr Minato is a very fine designer, builder, and flier. I've seen his airplane fly many times and it is truly at the top of the heap.

There are a lot of fine airplanes that can take you into Expert. This is definitely one of them and is a very straight forward build.

The work and practice is up to you!

Randy Cuberly

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2015, 11:11:10 AM »

The questions are legit., and the answer was complete. More time answering than I would have spent!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2015, 11:16:08 AM »

I will admit I had a problem with one of Eric's kits and I've built several of them. On this particular kit it seems the program left out a couple of ribs. Eric took care of it once he seen the problem. I've known Eric since my first VSC many moons ago and he is a very fine gentleman. But, really if you go on his site you will see the kits and discriptions. And as stated if the description is not enough leave a voice mail. He does get busy once in a while.

Motorman · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2015, 12:57:48 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on August 05, 2015, 10:17:53 PM

I found everything he wanted to know on the RSM web site. And it takes more than an airplane to get you the Expert level. That doesn't come in a box.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Not that I have to explain myself but, I did my due diligence with the search function on here and searching the RSM site. Asking for details on a forum is just another way to get info and maybe the best way to get specific answers. I'm not sure RSM shares your(reputation beyond question) sentiment as they have graciously answered my inquiry and I'm sure any good businessman would welcome a chance to explain their product to a perspective customer. I also have avenues to explore with Robins View Productions, Brodak and others. So, all you vendors prepare to be offended.

On your other point, it does take more than an airplane and I've got the drive but, it also takes an airplane. Unless you think I can win Expert with allot of practice and a profile Tanager or Sig Banshee because, if that's possible I'm good to go.

MM

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2015, 01:48:39 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 06, 2015, 12:57:48 PM

Not that I have to explain myself but, I did my due diligence with the search function on here and searching the RSM site. Asking for details on a forum is just another way to get info and maybe the best way to get specific answers. I'm not sure RSM shares your(reputation beyond question) sentiment as they have graciously answered my inquiry and I'm sure any good businessman would welcome a chance to explain their product to a perspective customer. I also have avenues to explore with Robins View Productions, Brodak and others. So, all you vendors prepare to be offended.

On your other point, it does take more than an airplane and I've got the drive but, it also takes an airplane. Unless you think I can win Expert with allot of practice and a profile Tanager or Sig Banshee because, if that's possible I'm good to go.

MM

Nice looking airplanes MM.

Unless you're a budding Paul Walker, or David Fitzgerald they probably won't get you into the Expert Class, at least not the real "Expert Class". Then again you mentioned "Winning" the Expert Class. Getting in is one thing, and requires a lot of work and a good airplane or two, or three. Winning, is another thing entirely. Competition gets very tough at the top!!!

I've been flying in the Expert Class for over 35 years and can fly fairly descent scores sometimes, but I guess I just don't work hard enough. A contest here in Tucson with some top level experts entered put me in seventh place with a score of 572...fight hard and be prepared for a lot of disappointment.

Best of luck to you.

Randy Cuberly

Paul Walker · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2015, 02:08:17 PM »

Eric is a nice guy...If you turn your head he will fill your motor with JB weld.!!

I'm sure he can esplain!!

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2015, 05:41:48 PM »

On your other point, it does take more than an airplane and I've got the drive but, it also takes an airplane. Unless you think I can win Expert with allot of practice and a profile Tanager or Sig Banshee because, if that's possible I'm good to go.

MM

I have posted before that a local guy here in our club, used the same Twister,( box stock as a rock Twister,) powered by a stock FP-40 and went all the way from beginner to expert, and I personally witnessed several whippings he put on pipe powered ships. I would like to remind everybody that Todd Lee placed eighth at this years NATS with model powered by an LA.46! and the model was a sorta plans bashed Jack Sheeks design. The main ingredient in both cases is that these guys can FLY, know how to tune their engines, practice a LOT, and are constantly paying attention to the trim of the airplane. And NOT ONCE did either post a question on the internet!

There are guys like this all over the country. There are some that can take their model and beat you and yours, and then take you model, give you theirs, and then beat you again! A big thing that hold a lot of guys back is bouncing around from one design to another, from one power plant to another, hoping to find the one combination that will take them over the top. Pick a design and stick with it. Pick a power plant and stick with it. Learn to master them both, then wear them out practicing.. That is what breeds success.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

SteveMoon · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2015, 09:20:16 AM »

WTF people?!?!? He was just asking for some advice. What the
hell is wrong with that?

Geez, Steve

Motorman · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2015, 12:37:44 PM »

That Twister with FP40 is a great combo. I had a friend let me fly his many years ago and it was on rails. I almost built one but I always want something different so I went with the Tanager and it's been good. I just need something a little bigger with a full fuselage.

MM

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2015, 03:43:04 PM »

Quote from: SteveMoon on August 07, 2015, 09:20:16 AM

WTF people?!?!? He was just asking for some advice. What the
hell is wrong with that?

Geez, Steve

Well Steve...I think advice is what he got! What's wrong with that? I think just about everyone that posted was trying to be helpful...uhhh except maybe you...what's wrong?

Randy C.

Motorman · « **Reply #22 on:** August 10, 2015, 11:54:05 AM »

Through the hail of gun fire I have a few more questions.

Can the Trivial Pursuit (E power) be brought in under 64 oz. easy or hard?

Are the control system parts generic (Brodak) parts or something designed by Ted Francher?

4" bellcrank, CF or plastic?

Is the landing gear on the fuselage or wing?

How is the leading edge made 1/2" square with sheeting or...?

Thanks,
MM

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #23 on:** August 10, 2015, 12:09:01 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 06, 2015, 12:57:48 PM

On your other point, it does take more than an airplane and I've got the drive but, it also takes an airplane. Unless you think I can win Expert with allot of practice and a profile Tanager or Sig Banshee because, if that's possible I'm good to go.

I am only doing this to be a smartass, because I really, really need a better plane. Here's my current ride, and a shot of me flying it in Expert. I expect better scores when I finish my Legacy build (if ever -- I've been pretty busy with paying work lately), but I'm in the bottom third of Expert and I doubt that I'll be anywhere but in the bottom third of Expert when I start flying it.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #24 on:** August 10, 2015, 12:16:40 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 10, 2015, 11:54:05 AM

Through the hail of gun fire I have a few more questions.

Persevere anyway. I don't think the bellcrank choice makes a huge difference (unless it breaks), but if you feel strongly about it you can make your own. There's a lot of options if you want to go down that road -- personally, I think that if you want to whack a bellcrank out of something flat, you should use 1/8" phenolic, and if you want some fancy-dancy built-up thing you should search out Brett Buck's 3-layer bellcrank design and make one of those.

BUT: I'll be that neither of us are good enough that we'd notice a Brodak bellcrank in there.

Motorman · « **Reply #25 on:** August 10, 2015, 01:56:52 PM »

I just want to know what I'm paying for in the kit. I use a brodak unit now but I need 200% safety where I fly around houses.

MM

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #26 on:** August 10, 2015, 02:00:44 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 10, 2015, 01:56:52 PM

I just want to know what I'm paying for in the kit. I use a brodak unit now but I need 200% safety where I fly around houses and with a bigger plane...why do I have to keep explaining my questions to people that have no answers? I'm going back to Stuka Stunt.

I'm just trying to keep you entertained while Eric is getting around to looking at his 'puter again.

The one Eric Rule kit that I've put together is an ET-2 trainer kit that he's building to support his club. It's hardly representative of a top control line stunter -- but it's the best damned laser cutting I've ever seen, which is doubly impressive because it's for a plane that's designed to be sold as inexpensively as possible. I'd certainly buy a "real" kit from him.

RC Storick · « **Reply #27 on:** August 10, 2015, 02:05:54 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 10, 2015, 01:56:52 PM

why do I have to keep explaining my questions to people that have no answers? I'm going back to Stuka Stunt.

MM

Your choice but I am not going to have that here. Thanks. Just call Eric he will return your call when he has a chance.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #28 on:** August 10, 2015, 02:30:31 PM »

Erics kits are top notch - you can check out my build article on his web page that I did for the Mosquito - it has detailed pictures of whats in the kits and how it goes together.

http://rsmdistribution.com/guides/mosquito.pdf

All the hardware is top quality - when I was building brodak stuff - I'd swap out the bellcranks etc and use other systems - with the RSM stuff -there is no need to - its tough and will serve you well

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #29 on:** August 10, 2015, 06:40:19 PM »

Well, it just so happens that I have an RSM Trivial Pursuit kit. Wood quality and lazer cutting are excellent. I think it would be difficult to build it under 64 ounces with electric power especially if you want a painted, not plastic, finish. 4" Bellcrank is very sturdy and made out or phenolic material. I guess you could say it is generic RSM, not a bad thing. Horns are 1/8, bushed, very high quality. Ball links could be used with them as could old-school 90" push-rod bends.

LG is in the wing, it is pre-bent, included in the kit. Wing leading edge is made with two laminations of 1/8 balsa due to its thick/blunt LE profile. Different but very workable. Front portionof wing is sheeted, nothing special there. Stab is built up. The plans are very complete but no instructions book is included as in the Brodak kits. Building guides are available on the RSM web site but this model is not one of the ones featured. I would recommend this kit for experienced stunt builders.

Motorman · « **Reply #30 on:** August 10, 2015, 06:45:09 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on August 10, 2015, 02:05:54 PM

Your choice but I am not going to have that here. Thanks.

Have what here? Whatever it is I think you had it before I came here.

MM

RC Storick · « **Reply #31 on:** August 10, 2015, 06:58:48 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 10, 2015, 06:45:09 PM

Whatever it is I think you had it before I came here.
MM

Did you call Eric and leave a message? Or send him a PM? Did he answer?

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #32 on:** August 10, 2015, 07:29:23 PM »

Quote from: Balsa Butcher on August 10, 2015, 06:40:19 PM

Well, it just so happens that I have an RSM Trivial Pursuit kit. Wood quality and lazer cutting are excellent. I think it would be difficult to build it under 64 ounces with electric power especially if you want a painted, not plastic, finish. 4" Bellcrank is very sturdy and made out or phenolic material. I guess you could say it is generic RSM, not a bad thing. Horns are 1/8, bushed, very high quality. Ball links could be used with them as could old-school 90" push-rod bends.

LG is in the wing, it is pre-bent, included in the kit. Wing leading edge is made with two laminations of 1/8 balsa due to its thick/blunt LE profile. Different but very workable. Front portionof wing is sheeted, nothing special there. Stab is built up. The plans are very complete but no instructions book is included as in the Brodak kits. Building guides are available on the RSM web site but this model is not one of the ones featured. I would recommend this kit for experienced stunt builders.

I also have an RSM Trivial Pursuit kit and agree essentially with everything Balsa Butcher said about the kit. All the hardware is very high quality and and very serviceble and completely safe. That said I always use Tom Morris control parts because they are adjustable an that adjustability has become pretty much the standard fare in the expert class. it offers a level of trimming ability not available with standard type control horns etc.

I will make one comment about electrifying the Trivial Pursuit. While it is very beautiful large stunter it would not be my first choice for an electric. It has a very deep large fuselage to house a large engine and pipe and that essentially means a lot of wood for construction. It also has a very thick airfoil on the wing and that also means a lot of wood. Those items means it is very difficult to build it as a light airframe. The first one I built about 12 years ago weighed 73 oz with PA65 and pipe and flew very well. I think (if my memory is correct) that Ted Fanchers original weighed 69 oz with a ROJett 61 on pipe. I seriously doubt that an electric one could be built to be lighter than that.

All that said, it is an excellent airplane as proven by Ted's Nationals win with it! You don't get into that circle without a really good airplane.

Attached is a photo of the one in my shop that I'm building now. It's actually a little farther along now than the photo depicts but you can get the idea from the Fuse and Wing and the plans taped on the wall behind it. It is being built from the kit except for the control system as mentioned before. The wood in the kit is first class contest balsa.

Randy Cuberly

Randy Powell · « **Reply #33 on:** August 11, 2015, 11:26:25 AM »

I'm just finishing an RSM Trivial Pursuit kit. And it will be electric. But I didn't build it stock and made many, many changes including different ribs and airfoil, a lot of modification to the fuselage and tail plane, etc. The kit was very good overall. Nice laser cutting (that I ended up not using much of since I went crazy and changed so much). I will say that the kit is fine and there was nothing wrong, I just used it as a base for what I wanted.

On a side note, the kit came with a very poor canopy. Just a bad molding. I talked to Eric about it and he sent another free of charge. Instantly. Then I messed that one up (left it in the dye too long with the water too hot) and called Eric again and he sent out another one (though I paid for that one - go figure) and again it came almost instantly. Good guy to deal with.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #34 on:** August 11, 2015, 02:38:13 PM »

a friend of mine flew nothing but trivial pursuits - until he went electric - then he changed to the thunder gazer for the thinner foil as the TP was too thick.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #35 on:** August 11, 2015, 02:41:37 PM »

Well, that's why I modified mine.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #36 on:** August 11, 2015, 08:22:06 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on August 11, 2015, 02:41:37 PM

Well, that's why I modified mine.

Well I want the thick, blunt airfoil for my ROJett 76... It carries weight really well!

Randy Cuberly

Randy Powell · « **Reply #37 on:** August 12, 2015, 10:59:41 AM »

Randy,

I was the same when I was flying slimers.

REX1945 · « **Reply #38 on:** August 30, 2015, 04:43:28 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on August 11, 2015, 11:26:25 AM

......On a side note, the kit came with a very poor canopy. Just a bad molding. I talked to Eric about it and he sent another free of charge. Instantly. Then I messed that one up (left it in the dye too long with the water too hot) and called Eric again and he sent out another one (though I paid for that one - go figure) and again it came almost instantly. Good guy to deal with.....

Randy,

What kind of dye do you use on the (RSM) canopy ?

I know that SIG canopies are not compatible with RIT dye.

Rex

Sean McEntee · « **Reply #39 on:** August 30, 2015, 09:00:08 PM »

I'll jump in here and say the move to expert is a HUGE step!!

When starting in beginner or moving up to intermediate or advanced, you are competing on a fairly equal skill field relative to your own. Expert is not that way. Depending where you go, you will be flying against past and present national and world champions, or at least guys who have been flying longer than I have been alive. This move up is going to take some commitment. Lots of building and a LOT of practicing and learning that every piece of advise you get needs to be taken home and figured out if it's right for you or not. There's a billion different ways to get a model airplane to go around in circles and no two people have the exact same method.

Best of luck!

Motorman · « **Reply #40 on:** August 30, 2015, 10:06:07 PM »

Thank you very much. Anyway, I ordered 2 RSM kits that should be here Fri. Going to get the Humongous in the air right away with a K&B 4011 as I've taken an interest in old time stunt and save the Thunder Gazer for a winter project since it's so late in the season. Hey, got to get outside sometime while the sun's shining.

MM

Brett Buck · « **Reply #41 on:** August 30, 2015, 10:14:26 PM »

Quote from: Sean McEntee on August 30, 2015, 09:00:08 PM

I'll jump in here and say the move to expert is a HUGE step!!

When starting in beginner or moving up to intermediate or advanced, you are competing on a fairly equal skill field relative to your own. Expert is not that way. Depending where you go, you will be flying against past and present national and world champions, or at least guys who have been flying longer than I have been alive. This move up is going to take some commitment. Lots of building and a LOT of practicing and learning that every piece of advise you get needs to be taken home and figured out if it's right for you or not. There's a billion different ways to get a model airplane to go around in circles and no two people have the exact same method.

   To expand on Sean's comments, building an individual airplane will not be nearly enough to be competitive in Expert. You need to master building, trimming, engine and prop setup, in addition to learning to fly what you might currently imagine to be perfect flights in any sort of weather. That's going to take more than building one kit (even if it is a really good one like the RSM Trivial Pursuit).

   I am not sure what your current skill level is for sure, but from a solid advanced flier to competitive in local expert (outside Texas, the southeast, or California/Arizona) might take 4-5 years of concerted effort, presuming you have the proper assistance. People here will be glad to help but you cannot expect to do this in a vacuum with only internet assistance. You also need to commit to both the financial and personal cost, neither of which is insubstantial, particularly travel costs. Think of buying fuel in cases rather than gallons.

   We can help you lay out a plan if you can explain your current situation a bit better.

   Don't take any of this as discouragement, far from it, I obviously think it was worth the effort in my case. But I would hate to see anyone go in without a realistic expectation of what it's going to take. As a start, what class do you currently fly, and what engine were you planning on using?

   Brett

Howard Rush · « **Reply #42 on:** August 30, 2015, 11:39:53 PM »

Quote from: Randy Cuberly on August 10, 2015, 07:29:23 PM

I will make one comment about electrifying the Trivial Pursuit. While it is very beautiful large stunter it would not be my first choice for an electric. ... It also has a very thick airfoil on the wing and that also means a lot of wood. Those items means it is very difficult to build it as a light airframe.

I see lots of people chimed in to agree. Stunt people seem to think that thin wings are lighter than thick wings and that electricity required for an electric stunter is proportional to wing thickness. Neither is true.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #43 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:02:08 AM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on August 30, 2015, 11:39:53 PM

I see lots of people chimed in to agree. Stunt people seem to think that thin wings are lighter than thick wings and that electricity required for an electric stunter is proportional to wing thickness. Neither is true.

Uhhh well Howard...all other things equal...thin wings are lighter than thick wings. Simple physics my friend and you know it better than anyone. More wood and paint equals more weight! Granted that doesn't necessarily mean that thin wings are better.

Given that I'm not at all sure what you mean! Can you explain your statement a little better?

Randy Cuberly

RC Storick · « **Reply #44 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:09:08 AM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on August 30, 2015, 11:39:53 PM

I see lots of people chimed in to agree. Stunt people seem to think that thin wings are lighter than thick wings and that electricity required for an electric stunter is proportional to wing thickness. Neither is true.

I only know this. If you are in the back of a pickup moving 55 MPH with a 3/4x4'x8' sheet of plywood it would be easier to hold it up into the wind with the 3/4 edge facing forward than if you turned it flat with the 4' side facing forward.

So my mechanical deductions are thick wing = more drag. More drag more energy used but heck that's just me.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #45 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:24:13 AM »

Quote from: Randy Cuberly on August 31, 2015, 11:02:08 AM

Uhhh well Howard...all other things equal...thin wings are lighter than thick wings. Simple physics my friend and you know it better than anyone. More wood and paint equals more weight! Granted that doesn't necessarily mean that thin wings are better.

Given that I'm not at all sure what you mean! Can you explain your statement a little better?

Randy Cuberly

Not Howard,, ( by a long shot LOL)
apples to apples,, if you want to build a wing of "X" strenght and rigidity,, assuming the skins are the actual strength of the structure,, a thick wing can be built lighter and be as strong as a thin wing built to the same strength,, laymans understanding,, the farther apart the surfaces are from each other , assuming the interior structure prevents deformation,, the lighter the skins can be to obtain a certain strength,,
on our stock car cages,, we used .0900 wall 2.5 inch tubing instead of .125 wall 2 inch tubing to obtain the same rigidity,, lighter, more rigid, and stronger,, at least in our observation,, and yes,, they were crash tested LOL

Will Hinton · « **Reply #46 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:59:42 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on August 10, 2015, 11:54:05 AM

Through the hail of gun fire I have a few more questions.

Can the Trivial Pursuit (E power) be brought in under 64 oz. easy or hard?

Are the control system parts generic (Brodak) parts or something designed by Ted Francher?

4" bellcrank, CF or plastic?

Is the landing gear on the fuselage or wing?

How is the leading edge made 1/2" square with sheeting or...?

Thanks,
MM

The short answer is yes. But it always takes much work to build light. I have two TP based stunters that came it at 61 and 62 ounces. They both have around 1000 flights on them and are many years old. It's a good airplane. Mine are scratch built, but I'm sure Eric's kits will enable you to come in light and straight.

On the subject of why are you asking the questions here, HEY PEOPLE, just what in the heck is this forum for, anyway? I thought the idea was for people to be able to ask questions of other modelers. Slack off, okay? Give MM a break, he's just using the 'hanger the way it was intended to be used.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #47 on:** August 31, 2015, 12:53:17 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on August 30, 2015, 11:39:53 PM

I see lots of people chimed in to agree. Stunt people seem to think that thin wings are lighter than thick wings and that electricity required for an electric stunter is proportional to wing thickness. Neither is true.

My electric will have a thinner wing than the Infinity. But that has more to do with the fact that I think the current version is too thick for IC, too. In fact I might build one electric and one IC just to see what the deal is.

I have a 90% complete clone of the current model, too. And lots of grandiose plans, many of which will never actually happen.

Brett

Howard Rush · « **Reply #48 on:** August 31, 2015, 01:48:31 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on August 31, 2015, 11:24:13 AM

apples to apples,, if you want to build a wing of "X" strenght and rigidity,, assuming the skins are the actual strength of the structure,, a thick wing can be built lighter and be as strong as a thin wing built to the same strength,, laymans understanding,, the farther apart the surfaces are from each other , assuming the interior structure prevents deformation,, the lighter the skins can be to obtain a certain strength...

Yep. In our case the lighter the spar can be.

Aerodynamically, a thinner wing may have a tad less drag in level flight, but more in maneuvers. This is opposite of what you want.

There's probably an optimal thickness. Looking at electric stunters that have been winning the world, European, and US national championships, one sees rather plump wings, pretty much the same as those that won with internal combusion engines.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #49 on:** August 31, 2015, 02:26:54 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on August 31, 2015, 11:24:13 AM

Not Howard,, ( by a long shot LOL)
apples to apples,, if you want to build a wing of "X" strenght and rigidity,, assuming the skins are the actual strength of the structure,, a thick wing can be built lighter and be as strong as a thin wing built to the same strength,, laymans understanding,, the farther apart the surfaces are from each other , assuming the interior structure prevents deformation,, the lighter the skins can be to obtain a certain strength,,
on our stock car cages,, we used .0900 wall 2.5 inch tubing instead of .125 wall 2 inch tubing to obtain the same rigidity,, lighter, more rigid, and stronger,, at least in our observation,, and yes,, they were crash tested LOL

Of course Mark, that's obvious but the context of the question and answer is a KIT from RSM with structure and wood thicknesses already determined. What you're suggesting, while certainly true, requires re-engineering the structure and scrapping most of the wood in the kit and replacing it. I simply didn't answer the question within that context.

The Trivial Pursuit wing shown in the photo I posted weighs 9.1 oz as shown with the bellcrank, leadouts, flap horn pushrod and flaps. The wingtips, weight box, and leadout guide will add another 3.5 oz for a total of 12.6 oz. Hanging on the wall close to the TP is a GeoXl wing that is actually larger in area and a good deal thinner with Geodetic construction that weighs 9.6 oz with all of the parts mentioned before including tips, weight box, leadout guide, etc. The wood quality in both of these wings averages about the same but of course there is significantly less wood in the Geo Xl wing.

Also my completely unproven theory is that Electric powered airplanes can operate with thinner wings because they do not need the extra damping provided by the increased drag of the thicker wing due to the increased controllability of the powerplant.

At least that's my story an' I'm Stick'n to it!

Randy Cuberly

Author Topic: RSM Kits (Read 13264 times)

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