RSM Electra

[Randy.Birt]

Greetings all, I was hoping I might be able to get some insight on the Electra. Any mods recommended, or advise about building and flying? still a relative beginner, so any information would be greatly appreciated. I did search for it hereon this board, and not much came up.   Thinking of using either an fp-35 or and LA 46. Thanks ahead of time.


Randy

[John Miller]

I built and published the Electra, on the old model builder magazine. (Memory lapse) EDIT, It was April, 1996 issue of Flying Models. (Thanks Kieth) I believe this was the first time it was ever published, though the design, By Dick Williams, went back to 1959. Dick made the US Team for the World Champs with his Electra, and he took it to Ukraine for the contest. He saw his model box being loaded on the plane in the states, but when he arrived in Kiev, it was not there. They never did find it, so he had to fly another team mates backup. The Electra is a fine example of the West Coast early 60's style competition design.

I liked the way it looked, so I built not one, but two. I lost the first one when my elevator horn malfunctioned. The main tricky construction involved the leading edge sheeting at the wing tips. The original hand drawn plans, had an error on one of the ribs. It was too thin, and had to be corrected or the sheeting would not attache correctly.

The type of main spar, and how it is used and placed, is different. One could use a rod style jig. I didn't use a jig on either of the ones I built, and they came out straight for me. Your mileage may differ, so do what you think is best for you.

The plans used for RSM's Electra has had the thin rib addressed, and you should, If you're a careful, (good) builder, be rewarded with a very nice Classic plane.

Dick Williams power of choice was a Mcoy .35, and later when they became available he switched to, Mcoy .40's. He liked Grish black blade 10" 3 blade props.
My first one used an OS .35S and a Rev up 10X5 or 6 prop. my second one used a Mcoy .40 lightening bolt and a black Grish 10X6 three-blade prop. Use your OS .46 LA, and a good prop, you should be happy.

If you choose to build the Electra with the same care you'd normally use for a competition plane, I believe you'll find joy.

John Miller

[Larry Renger]

Send a PM to Bart Klapinski, he won big with one if I recall right.

[Trostle]

Send a PM to Bart Klapinski, he won big with one if I recall right.

Actually, Bart Klapinski won ("big") at the 67 Nationals (Los Alamos) with his Tempest.  The Tempest is a trike gear, with a jet look (forward canopy) and a swept tail and used a McCoy .40.  But otherwise, the numbers and airfoil for Bart's Tempest are much the same as the Electra.  Bart was a protege' of Dick.  The Electra spawned several successful designs in Southern California in the early-mid 60's.  The Electra was/is a good flying airplane.  There have been several renditions of the Electra at VSC, all good fliers.

Keith

[ericrule]

The Electra is a very good flyer, designed well by one of the true gentlemen in this hobby.

Wing is very simple to build as it has equal panels. Mr. Williams accomplished the shorter outer wing panel by moving the wing center towards the outboard side of the fuselage. A simple yet very effective method to allow you to end up with the shorter outboard wing panel thought to be necessary in those times. The only item you have to be careful with during the wing construction is to make certain that you do not glue the leading edge sheeting to the longitudinal spar. The spar needs to float free from the sheeting or you will get a nasty looking glue line that will detract from the appearance.

Also a quick note about the plan. Be aware that the wing as shown on the plan is positioned as though you were looking upwards from the bottom of the model.  If you look at the plan you will see that the trailing edge of the wing is positioned at the top of the plan where every other plan ever drawn shows the leading edge of the wing positioned towards the top of the plan. John Miller is the only person I have ever known who uses this particular method of showing the wing plan view. Why I do not know but I can tell you that it has caused numerous problems for people who have built both the Electra and the Tempest as they think they are looking at a wing positioned like every other model plan but everything is actually upside down. This problem usually exhibits itself when they go to install the landing gear because the plan actually has them extending upwards while they look at the plan and think it shows the gear exiting towards the bottom like all other plans. Just keep this fact in mind and you will be OK.

[wwwarbird]

 Not trying to scare you off from the Electra project Randy but if you're "still a relative beginner" you may want to hold off on the build for awhile. Like John explains the wing construction is a little different from the norm and it's kind of a trick to get everything right. The Electra is one of my favorite designs though, a great looking airplane.

[John Miller]

Also a quick note about the plan. Be aware that the wing as shown on the plan is positioned as though you were looking upwards from the bottom of the model.  If you look at the plan you will see that the trailing edge of the wing is positioned at the top of the plan where every other plan ever drawn shows the leading edge of the wing positioned towards the top of the plan. John Miller is the only person I have ever known who uses this particular method of showing the wing plan view. Why I do not know but I can tell you that it has caused numerous problems for people who have built both the Electra and the Tempest as they think they are looking at a wing positioned like every other model plan but everything is actually upside down. This problem usually exhibits itself when they go to install the landing gear because the plan actually has them extending upwards while they look at the plan and think it shows the gear exiting towards the bottom like all other plans. Just keep this fact in mind and you will be OK.

Eric, the plans are drawn so you can turn them 180 degrees and the wing will be in the normal position with the trailing edge closest to the builder. A clue, all the callouts (text) for the wing assemblies will be upside down if you don't rotate the plans. The wing is not drawn showing the bottom rather than the top of the wing.

I, and many others, do not like the trailing edge of the wing in the middle of the sheet. I prefer to have it closest to me so It's convenient for building. Rotating the sheet places the wing in a better location for most builders. I'm not the only one who will sometimes draw a plan like this.

It was necessary to draw it this way to fit and combine the plan on the 1 sheet size, with the detail that you wanted.  My original drawings used 2 sheets. Sheet 1 for the fuselage with all the bulkheads and cowl details, and sheet 2, for the entire wing, with all the ribs, and details.

Rotating the plan is a solution many other draftsmen have used when they have to combine drawings to attempt to get a lot of information on one sheet. When the fuselage is right side up, the fuse details are closest to the builder, and all the text for that part of the plan, will be right side up. The same goes for the wing. if you do not rotate the plan, all the text for the wing will be upside down. The cure, rotate the plan 180 degrees. Now, all the text for the wing will be right side up and the trailing edge will be closest to the builder.

I hope this information will help you, and apparently some builders understand how to use the drawing. Other issues can and should be discussed off line.

John Miller

[Randy.Birt]

Thanks everyone for the great insights. I really appreciate it. Warbird, thanks for the concern, I should have clarified the beginner comment better, I have been building and flying control line and rc for 40 years now. The beginner part is the aspect of moving into competition. I have a cardinal and a twister that my son and I have been using to learn the beginner pattern. We are going to the North Georgia contest in a few weeks. We both plan on using our respective planes to learn the modern pattern this fall and winter. I am planning on building the Electra this winter and flying it only when I can complete the full pattern safely. : )  I also finished up a Vampire last year that i may work on doing the OTS pattern with.
Question if I may.

With the idea of having one wing longer than the other that was popular in the 60's, but no longer popular, would any of you build the electra without offsetting the wing? Would this hurt the performance? Should I just build as designed?

Thanks again. 

[John Miller]

Randy, I suggest that you build your first one as designed. On any next one you build, you can move the fuselage slightly, about 1 inch, towards the inboard side.

You will have the benchmark established  from the first one to compare it with. Don't get too worried, the Electra, as designed, is a very good design and has won at many levels over the years. Dick Williams did a great job with this one.

John Miller

[John Leidle]

   Hi Randy,
  I built one because after seeing John Miller's I was hooked on something that looks like an airplane. Mine came in at 48 ounces with a Double Star  .54. Just because it has a ton of power I rarely use it. I like the plane there are many engine options but I'd over power it just in case.
      Best Wishes , John L.

[dale gleason]

I ran into trouble with the Williams Electra before getting in touch with Ray Firkins, who can build them in his sleep. It is a very different build!
 
Slide the wing in the fuselage 2 inches for the offset, no big deal, but the wing landing gear slides over with it, looks funny to me. Two torsion bars, un-equal length.  The wing leading edge is a compound curve, makes for a tough "lost foam" cradle. The Leading Edge sheeting has to be split, relieved, to fit the compound curve.

BTW, I have an RSM Electra kit for sale, but cannot talk about it here...(PM)

If I could build one correctly, I'd try again. And now I realise how the plans are drawn, never figgered that out...

dg

[John Miller]

Dale, this is a jpeg from my original drawing. It may help to clarify some of the wing construction.

John

[dale gleason]

Thank you, John. The first Williams Electra I saw was Ray Firkin's at the VSC. It blew me away. I emailed him and he pointed toward Carsten's (Flying Models) where a full description article of the design/construction were explained...except I never got Carsten's to reply to me about getting a copy of that issue. Ray said you needed that article to build that plane.

With your plans, blown up, I will give the Electra another try.

Again, thank you,

dg

[Trostle]

Thank you, John. The first Williams Electra I saw was Ray Firkin's at the VSC. It blew me away. I emailed him and he pointed toward Carsten's (Flying Models) where a full description article of the design/construction were explained...except I never got Carsten's to reply to me about getting a copy of that issue. Ray said you needed that article to build that plane.

With your plans, blown up, I will give the Electra another try.

Again, thank you,

dg

The Electra article written by John Miller was in the April 1996 issue of Flying Models.  I will send you a copy if you want.

Keith

[dale gleason]

Thank you, Keith. That's a lot of effort for you to go to, but, it would be really appreciated.

dale g

[John Miller]

Dale please PM me.

[John Miller]

Thanks, Colonel for your help with the correct date, issue, and publisher of the Electra article. May I presume to ask you for a copy from your amazing collection?

Sometime, over the years my copies of the magazines seems to be missing. Thanks in advance.

John Miller

I've recently received a large manila envelope from the Colonel. Thanks, there's all the info there.

[Bart Klapinski]

Hi Randy. I was taught by Dick Williams who designed the Electra. He built four, I built two and they were excellent flying models. I can tell you a lot and answer questions but, it would be much easier over the phone.

                                                  520-906-1105      Happy to help

                                                                                                 Bart