Author Topic: Rocket launch on Tuesday (Read 4062 times)

Paul Walker · « **on:** July 12, 2019, 08:03:59 PM »

Brett, are you going to launch a model rocket remembering Apollo 11 on Tuesday?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2019, 10:00:26 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on July 12, 2019, 08:03:59 PM

Brett, are you going to launch a model rocket remembering Apollo 11 on Tuesday?

Probably not, fire season, you know. I am thinking about printing some of the Gulf Oil Lunar Module paper model and offering them to my colleagues, which is what I was putting together while waiting for them to get out of the LM.

I launched several rockets on July 16, 1969 so that should count for something:

Centuri T-bird, B14-0/C6-0/C6-7, two grasshoppers, first fully-successful 3-stage flight. Way OOS, may still be going up for all I know.

Centuri Aero-Dart, Minimax/Coaster F10-8, massive shred at about 200 feet, unstable, crashed, and started a small fire. This was far beyond my capabilties at the time, and launching off a core-burning "F" black-powder engine from about 6 feet is quite an experience, and *very very loud*. Neighbors thought I had finally blown myself up. Cat hid for several hours under bed. At least this particular engine did not explode on ignition, all the other Coaster engines I ever had blew to bits almost immediately, probably due to cracks in the propellant grain (core-burnign to the point I could stick my 8-year-old pinkie all the way into it, brittle black powder grain, and the sort of handling care you might expect from an enthusiastic 8-year-old)

Estes Mark, A8-5, boring but successful.

little brother's Astron Midget, A5-0s/A5-4s, unstable, looped over the house and lawn-darted in back yard.

Little brother Astron Space Man, A5-0S with spacer, weenie flight to about 40 feet, landed in the street, minor damage but fixable.

Brett

p.s. Fully illustrated launch report, with isometric views of trajectories, and markups showing (unacceptable, of course) changes in the last 50 years. This proves to Ted that it's not just airplane flights that I remember, and it goes back a very long way.

It's OK if you call me Sheldon after this one. Well, not OK, but understandable:

Gary Dowler · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2019, 10:25:43 PM »

Great after action report, Brett! Loved the schematic.

Gary

Brett Buck · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2019, 10:54:28 PM »

Quote from: Gary Dowler on July 12, 2019, 10:25:43 PM

Great after action report, Brett! Loved the schematic.

I would classify it as "disturbing". What is worse is that I have flown maybe 10,000 model rocket flights since about 1967, mostly 40+years ago, and if need be, I might be able to reproduce just about every one of them the same way.

Brett

viz.:

D Dual Eggloft Duration, AeroTech D21-4, model built in < 1 hour night before contest, 72" mylar parachute. 1st Official, 4 misfires (copperheads), chuff but ignite on 5th try (Igniterman), boosted to about 750', deployed immediately into strong thermal, lost it, caught second massive thermal, theodolites got 2100' at highest, OOS to timers at about 7 minutes, recovery crew chased over and past Lawrence Livermore lab, landed in a field in near Brentwood at 35:17, DQ (egg broke, almost certainly in one of the misfires). Record at time was about 3 1/2 minutes.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2019, 11:14:07 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on July 12, 2019, 08:03:59 PM

Brett, are you going to launch a model rocket remembering Apollo 11 on Tuesday?

No, and it is certain that we are not going to launch a real rocket on the 17th, either. Slipped to NET August 8, but that's just for planning.

The solution we discussed in May seems more and more appealing.

Brett

M Spencer · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:46:52 AM »

They could rename Barnes Mill Road , to Peenemünde Street .

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2019, 07:11:39 AM »

My Estes Saturn V will be at Muncie, hopefully conditions will be okay for a launch Tuesday evening.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:17:08 AM »

We (Grumman Lunar Module Reunion Committee) wont be launching anything this week, but we do have (3) of our Apollo Astronauts/Lunar Module pilots attending our festivities this week in the Cocoa Beach area and at the SaturnV facility at Kennedy Space Center. We have maintained contact since the 60's.
Hard to believe it has been fifty years and we did this as "kids".

Hope to get back to building and flying when celebrations are over, I have 1020 attending.

Sincere best wishes to all at the Nats, will be checking in daily.

Roger

Paul Walker · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2019, 04:41:54 PM »

[quote

The solution we discussed in May seems more and more appealing.

Brett
[/quote]

😁😁

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2019, 11:53:15 AM »

Unless the weather makes a miraculous improvement tonight's Saturn launch at the L pad is scrubbed.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2019, 07:20:46 PM »

The wind relented at last light and we had a liftoff!

Shorts,David · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2019, 08:34:59 PM »

Sounds like we found a CD for the exhibition model rocketry event at the next CL contest or maybe at Golden State. Rocket must clear 1000' and then measure landing distance from the launch pad. 2 launches combined. Or something of that nature.

David

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2019, 09:29:55 PM »

How about posting a posed static shot of the Saturn? I don't fly rockets but often thought of buying that kit just to build for display someday.
Thanks a lot,
Dan McEntee

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2019, 10:08:42 AM »

Quote from: Shorts,David on July 16, 2019, 08:34:59 PM

Sounds like we found a CD for the exhibition model rocketry event at the next CL contest or maybe at Golden State. Rocket must clear 1000' and then measure landing distance from the launch pad. 2 launches combined. Or something of that nature.

David

Since the GSSC happens at a municipal airport under FAA scrutiny, this seems like a real bad idea, what with all the "drone" crap and FAA's intrusion into our airspace!!!

Steve

Brett Buck · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2019, 03:33:11 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on July 22, 2019, 10:08:42 AM

Since the GSSC happens at a municipal airport under FAA scrutiny, this seems like a real bad idea, what with all the "drone" crap and FAA's intrusion into our airspace!!! Steve

Rocketry appears to operate under different set of rules and are supposedly independent of the FAA drone operation. Which reminds me, I need to get back to (NAR President John) Hochheimer about how they think they are exempt - presumably "not a UAS".

There is no issue whatever with operating inside Class B airspace, apparently, several NARAMs, including recent ones, have been held either on airport properties or inside the airspace. as long as you get permission.

The Fresno County Fire Marshal is likely to be a bigger holdup.

Brett

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2019, 06:35:21 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on July 16, 2019, 09:29:55 PM

How about posting a posed static shot of the Saturn? I don't fly rockets but often thought of buying that kit just to build for display someday.
Thanks a lot,
Dan McEntee

This is a pic when it was finished. Its not a great job but its pretty light and flies ok on a D12-3 motor. The newest release is supposed to have injection molded fins vs the vacuform parts.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2019, 07:46:00 PM »

Thanks for posting the pic Steve, looks cool! I would give a certain part of my anatomy to have seen a live full scale launch of one of those! Are the models just a single stage? I sold a lot of model rocket stuff at the hobby shop over 35 years but never got into launching any. We share Buder Park with a local rocket club and get to see those launch on occasion and they sometimes stop by the circles.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Brett Buck · « **Reply #17 on:** July 22, 2019, 08:56:20 PM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on July 22, 2019, 06:35:21 PM

This is a pic when it was finished. Its not a great job but its pretty light and flies ok on a D12-3 motor. The newest release is supposed to have injection molded fins vs the vacuform parts.

The injection molded parts are OK, but none of the other parts fit correctly. The centering rings are laser-cut rather than die-cut, and are undersized. They require two wraps of card stock wrapped around them to fit properly. The rings out of the Centuri kit from 1969 fit perfectly, so do the Estes K-36, 2001, and the mid-80s version, all the same and just right. The coupler tube that forms the tenon between the two rings fit perfectly. The new blow-molded SLA also doesn't fit, the tubes on either end are the right sizes but the SLA is extremely loose in one of them (I want to say the service module end). I am not even sure how to fix that, it would be easy to build up the tenon, but the OD doesn't fit right, either. The capsule fits the tube, so you can't just slice out 1/32 off the circumference.

This is very disappointing, same thing with the centering rings on the new Little Joe II, Mercury Little Joe, Nike-Smoke. Old parts for the same tubes fit perfectly, laser-cut are all wrong and all unacceptably loose. The Centuri parts for the equivalent tube, and old Estes die-cut parts, all fit fine. I have originals for all of these recent releases (since they were all originally Centuri kits, except for the Mercury Little Joe (which uses the Centuri ST-20 Mercury capsule instead of the horrific Estes BT-70 paper/balsa capsule), they never had this problem before,

BTW, the Nike-Smoke was also sold as an Enerjet model, if you can believe that, with an F67-8 on the recommended engine list! This for a model that flies dandy on a A8-3. It also had a functional smoke generator. I never had one, but I never saw one successfully fly on any Enerjet E or F that didn't shred in very short order. That was frequently the case with any Enerjet F67 model, particularly if you weren't extremely careful in airfoiling and aligning the fins. My first Aerodart (as above) shredded because of various workmanship issues and omission of the gauze reinforcement, which seemed like a lot of unnecessary work to an 8-year-old.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2019, 11:56:08 AM »

Steve:

Did you have a moustronaut in it? I recall a magazine article years ago (American Modeler?) where the authors launched a moustronaut into the wild blue. It was a pretty humorous article. Not sure how much the mouse was laughing.....

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2019, 02:27:36 PM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on July 23, 2019, 11:56:08 AM

Steve:

Did you have a moustronaut in it? I recall a magazine article years ago (American Modeler?) where the authors launched a moustronaut into the wild blue. It was a pretty humorous article. Not sure how much the mouse was laughing.....

It was an unmanned demonstration flight.
Many years ago I did fly several siberian dwarf hamsters that belonged to a colleague of mine on a model with three clustered G42 engines. The hamsters did not seem impressed. When I closed the payload compartment they were enthusiastically shredding the tissues cushioning the compartment. When I opened the compartment post recovery, I expected the furry crew to be in a state of gibbering incomprehension from their spectacular flight, but, there they were, still shredding the tissues like nothing happened. My co-worker was much more worked up then the rodents when word got out her hamsters had flown a space launch and been returned safely to her office over the weekend.

EricV · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2019, 02:35:37 PM »

Sometimes, getting the sense of scale of these things is hard until you are standing underneath one... Some pic's from our trip in 2010. I would have loved to see one of these things go up!!! (these are linked images, so no storage was harmed on Sparky's board, heh)

The old rocket garden

Lisa here giving a sense of scale to the old 1B at the rocket garden...

When you walk the length of this thing the stages seem to go on forever. Then you get to the modules and think, all this, to push those little things?!

I took this angle because when I looked up at this mess of rather fragile looking plumbing, I thought... ummm...yeah, those guys were brave indeed.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2019, 03:52:44 PM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on July 23, 2019, 02:27:36 PM

It was an unmanned demonstration flight.
Many years ago I did fly several siberian dwarf hamsters that belonged to a colleague of mine on a model with three clustered G42 engines. The hamsters did not seem impressed. When I closed the payload compartment they were enthusiastically shredding the tissues cushioning the compartment. When I opened the compartment post recovery, I expected the furry crew to be in a state of gibbering incomprehension from their spectacular flight, but, there they were, still shredding the tissues like nothing happened. My co-worker was much more worked up then the rodents when word got out her hamsters had flown a space launch and been returned safely to her office over the weekend.

Live Biological Payload, eh? The NAR might be a bit worked up about that, too, naughty.

Brett

Archie Adamisin · « **Reply #22 on:** July 24, 2019, 05:42:19 PM »

Had some fun with the local Boy Scout troop and 3D printed some model rockets. Video shows the 32in tall D/E sized rocket flying with a D12-5. 24in parachute using printed piston to eject recovery. Worked like a champ.

Rocket printed using the spiralized technique or continuous strand with 0.75mm wall thickness. Very smooth and light. RTF weight 7ozs. Printed in 4 8in sections.

Enjoy!!

Archie Adamisin
Burlington, KY

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2019, 06:33:50 AM »

Question for Brett: On Eric's picture of the Saturn 1B, it looks like the center H-1 cluster can gimbal. I thought only the outboards could gimbal or did they change it to all at some point?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2019, 10:53:46 PM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on July 25, 2019, 06:33:50 AM

Question for Brett: On Eric's picture of the Saturn 1B, it looks like the center H-1 cluster can gimbal. I thought only the outboards could gimbal or did they change it to all at some point?

I see what you mean, but as far as I know the center 4 engines are fixed. I will dig out my old scale substantiation data from my team trials model and see. Also, I think I recall seeing a gimbal test movie for a S-1B on "The Mighty Saturns" DVDs, they sure have everything else (including video that looks inside the propellant tanks in flight).

Brett

p.s. OK, the center engines are fixed. You can just see from Eric's picture that there is a plate that holds the 4 engines to each other. What looks like clearance to gimbal is actually clearance to pass the turbine exhaust through the aft closure. The engines on the static display do not have the turbine exhaust duct or skirt (which is where the turbine is exhausted), and are under storage covers. This was removed for delivery/shipping, and the skirt and exhaust duct was installed when preparing it for flight.

Note that the F1/Saturn 5 is similar with regard to the skirt. The turbine exhaust was injected out of the engine right at the end of the engine proper, and then travelled out the expansion skirt (which is not regeneratively cooled) which is installed during launch prep, and is removed for shipping.

Note that it is only one one side, and if it were clearance to move, it would be only one axis and only one direction along that axis. The clearance to move the gimbals is actually the flexible "bag bellows" you can see around each of the outer engines. As always, you need at least 3 of them to control all three control axes, it could keep going as far as thrust goes with only 6, but it better not be two of the gimbaled engines, or you lose control. It never happened, of course, as Rube Goldberg as it is to cluster 8 Redstone missiles, a Jupiter missile, 8 engines, etc., the Saturn 1/1b never had a mission failure, and only minor occasional scrubs - a perfect operational record, which is better than you can say about the Saturn V, although it did pretty good, too.

H1 engine, the turbine/pump and turbine exhaust duct really hang out there:

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2019, 05:31:58 PM »

You're right! I totally missed that the vehicle was missing the aspirators and the plumbing for the turbine exhaust! I had no idea the H-1 shipped that way-I thought only the F1 did.