Ringmaster/Fox 35 line length?

[Larry Renger]

I have been flying this Ringmaster  on 50' lines with a low pitch prop. Not happy with the overall result! 

I plan to try a 10x6 and longer lines. The question is "how long"?  I fly on .012 lines since the model is moderately light at 28 ounces. Could I get away with 65 ft? 

[Dan McEntee]

  Sure! That is the length Sean flies his RSM kuit version with a L&J Fox .35 on it. I think he uses a RSM 10-6 prop also. Says that he had to go out that long to slow the lap times down to what he wanted, and he still uses .015" lines I think. He's over seas right now, and if Uncle Sam lets him stand down for a bit he may see this and fill in any blanks. I have flown my Brodak ARF on lines that long also with an FP-25 in the nose just to see what it's like, and it weren't bad!
   Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

[Larry Renger]

Many garcias! I’ll start out there with caution. Easier to shorten lines than make them longer.  BTW it is aWollard .35 

[M Spencer]

Id try 60 ft. of 15 thou. , if its blustery ( a bit of wind ) . the 65 of .012 if its calm . Youd need a good engine run .

[Gary Dowler]

Pretty standard is 60' for that size plane. .015" lines will work well. Your 65's should be fine, and might be needed with a 35, even a Fox, on a Ringmaster.  The 10/6 prop is a good choice for the Fox 35.

Gary

[Brett Buck]

I have been flying this Ringmaster  on 50' lines with a low pitch prop. Not happy with the overall result! 

   That's not surprising - the Fox doesn't have the kind of poop you need for that. I did beat David one time flying a Skyray with an L&J Fox 35 and a Rev-Up 9-4, but that was just to get through the contest. And we came in second and third - behind someone who WAS NOT experimenting with new engines! You might be better off in some circumstances with as low as 5" of pitch on heavy airplanes, but 4" is pretty much out of the question.

  I won't bother completing the thought...

I plan to try a 10x6 and longer lines. The question is "how long"?  I fly on .012 lines since the model is moderately light at 28 ounces. Could I get away with 65 ft? 

  50 is extremely short. I would start at 58 or so, and then adjust from there. Even a foot makes a huge difference, going from 50 to 65, I think you will jump over the optimum.

    Brett

[Sean McEntee]

Hola Larry et al!

         SUPER busy out here between flying, college and a bunch of other side projects.  We have a 19B Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic out here that's into airplanes, so I even have some to sit around and talk shop with for once!  Will be home before I know it at this rate. 

         My ringmaster is on 68'x.015" lines, nose to handle.  Not so much to adjust lap times, but a theory I hold regarding flying smaller models on longer lines and how well they present in the pattern.  Power is also an L&J Fox with an RSM 10x6.  Not sure why Eric labels them that way--I hear they pitch out to about 5.5" or a bit less--but they work really well.  Collected quite a bit of hardware with it over the years in OT, Classic and Profile.  Also placed 2nd in the Tulsa Mirror Meet with it behind...wait for it...Joe Gilbert .  Need to build another one...

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

I'm looking forward to a season of - precision.  For this reason, I've tied lines .015 x 50', 52'6", 55', 57'6", 60', 62'6", 65'.  The idea here is that I can adjust to find the optimum.  I'm running a Fox .35 on a plane about the size and style of a Ringmaster, as well as an O.S. LA .46 on a stunter.

Soon, I hope to be flying these planes instead of running the motors.  They are 100% ready.  Our club in Northern Virginia has an awesome field, two circles in a meadow that is several acres in size, surrounded by a recreation area which is about 800 acres.

Peter

[Larry Renger]

 I forgot to mention that it is a Lou Woolard Fox. 

[BillP]

Original S1 with stock Fox 35.  .015 x 60' with 9/6, 9.5/6, 10/5 and 10/6 prop.  Lines stay plenty tight but 6 pitch is a tad fast for me to do the pattern.  5%/29% all castor at sea level.

[Phil Spillman]

Hi All, My most fun with the old Sterling Models trio is had with an LA .25 or OS .20 on muffler pressure swinging a 9X5 on 56.5' .015 lines and using  7.5 11/11 fuel. I fly over grass fields and the .012 lines would not stand up to regular hard usage!

Tally Ho!


Phil Spillman

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

Phil,

You have a point about .012 lines.  I lost a nice Nobler with a Fox .35 due to using kinked .012 lines over pavement.  Bad decision that put a serious kink in my stunt flying.  For .012 lines to work with a .35, they must be absolutely perfect.

That said, we've had good luck using .012 x 35' for 1/2A combat, and I'm planning to use .012 x 48' and 52' for a Fox .15x powered project.

Peter

[Brett Buck]

I forgot to mention that it is a Lou Woolard Fox. 

   Then even less chance that it's going to like low pitch.

     Brett

[Jim Carter]

Y'all are probably gonna' think I'm strange but for years I've been settled using .018" x 60' with my flying using everything from Fox 35's to OS 25's, to OS 40's and props from 9 x 4 - 11 x 7's !!  Ain't had a problem yet, least ways that I can attribute to the lines!     A few years ago, I made and tried a set of Spider Wire 80# x 60' lines and I'm still using them ..... again, no problems to report that I can attribute to the lines!  My skills  !!  Well that's another discussion  !!

[Brett Buck]

I'm looking forward to a season of - precision.  For this reason, I've tied lines .015 x 50', 52'6", 55', 57'6", 60', 62'6", 65'.  The idea here is that I can adjust to find the optimum.  I'm running a Fox .35 on a plane about the size and style of a Ringmaster, as well as an O.S. LA .46 on a stunter.

   Of those, start with the 57' 6", then adjust either way one step, just to see what happens. With a Fox, the lines will tend to wind up shorter than with current engines like the 20FP. If Larry ran his with a 20FP/9-4 as it was intended to run, with 50' lines, it would be going about 3 seconds/lap.
 
    None of this is breaking new ground, the right answer as determined over the 70 years people have been flying Ringmasters with Fox 35s is about 58-60 feet, mostly dependent on how heavy it is.

     Brett

[Terrence Durrill]

   I have always flown my Sterling S-1 Ringmaster's with Fox .35 stunt engines / 10/6 props (mostly old style wood paddle blade) on 60' lines for 65 years.  Started with that combo in 1955 and it has always worked just fine for me.  ...   Still does.  ..............     

[Jim Carter]

If you really want to fiddle with line length use a U-Realy!! 

[Ron Cribbs]

Larry,

I am a little late to the party, but many Ringmaster users including myself use 58’ from eyelet to eyelet. APC 10x5 has worked well for me and my Lew Woolard Fox .35

My Ringmaster almost weighs twice as much as yours.

Ron

[Doug Burright]

Lew Woolard Fox .35 engines are quite prolific, aren't they? Too bad The Silver Foxx is no longer making them. What ones did remain are being hoarded by some people. Ya know?

The Ringmaster, with a good Fox on it, works great with 60'-62' , .015  lines. A 10x6 prop, even the TopFlite 9-1/2x6, and some 10x5 props work well. My opinion is that.012" lines of any length, are not suitable on a Ringmaster with a.35 on it.

[Larry Renger]

I flew the model today on 65’ x .012” lines. Ideal conditions, 15/25/3 fuel, Xoar 10x6 prop. Just a bit too loose on the lines up top. I may give it a try with a wider blade prop, but suspect it needs to go down to 62’ before it is safe to fly in all conditions.

The engine was really cranking out the r’s, so that wasn’t the problem. I suspect that the prop isn’t loading up the engine enough. Lovely quality props, but really narrow blades.

Ya never know till ya try!

The thing is to experiment with extreme caution. I like the airplane!

[Dan McEntee]

   Hi Larry;
    That is exactly correct! You can always try another prop on the same lines. That's why I have a couple of big old boxes of props, because they ain't all the same, and what works on one model/engine might not work on another. I have had good luck with Xoar props on some engines, and not the best on others. It may be OK down at the 62 to 63 feet range. But if your get a RSM 10-6, try that 65 " set of lines one more time, just so you'll have the knowledge. and experience of how it works. I only had a couple of flights on my Brodak ARF Ringmaster on long lines before winter set in, and that was with a FP.25 and a LA.25, and it was promising, but I'll have to start from scratch because I've slept a few times since then and don't remember too much about it other than being able to do the OTS pattern capably. Flying weather is finally starting to break here in St. Louis, but flood season has hit also, and I hope Buder stays high and dry. Time will tell.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Brett Buck]

I flew the model today on 65’ x .012” lines. Ideal conditions, 15/25/3 fuel, Xoar 10x6 prop. Just a bit too loose on the lines up top. I may give it a try with a wider blade prop, but suspect it needs to go down to 62’ before it is safe to fly in all conditions.

   Start with *58'*, then you won't have to blow up the engine to get it to go. And I didn't mean "blowing up" figuratively - if you are running it at (relatively) high revs with 15%, you are running some danger of a crankshaft failure.

     You are not breaking new ground here.

     Brett