News:



  • June 22, 2025, 04:51:51 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Ringmaster Technical Questions  (Read 7602 times)

Offline raby fink

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 31
Ringmaster Technical Questions
« on: January 24, 2009, 10:25:33 AM »
I have a Sterling profile Ringmaster and I am at a building point where I need some technical questions answered if you can.

1. What is the maximum angle (from level) that the elevator should be (in both the up and down position)? I want as much as I can for stunts, but I dont want to get too much. I think if there is too much angle, then drag may occur

2. What would be a good weight amount for the outside wing. I want to get it close because once I monokote the wing it pretty much is a done deal.

3. when you glue your wings to the fuselage, do yall use epoxy or will Ambroid be all right.

If yall can help i sure would appreciate it.
Thanks
Raby

 

Offline Clint Ormosen

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2632
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 10:34:18 AM »
For elevator travel, 30 degrees of travel each direction should be plenty. You can build in more travel but you will probably never need it.
Put about 1 oz of wingtip weight in it. With MonoKote, it's easy to add or remove weight and patch the hole.
Use epoxy at the wing/fuse joint. Much stronger than Ambriod.

You did join the wing halves together and sheeted the center, right?
-Clint-

AMA 559593
Finding new and innovated ways to screw up the pattern since 1993

Offline Scott Hartford

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 11:57:06 AM »
also see the Brotherhood of the Ring site for all things Ringmaster!


http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 12:29:29 PM by Richard Grogan »

Offline Phil Spillman

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 806
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 07:04:36 PM »
If your airfoil the rudder you won't need much weight or less than you might otherwise have added. Try using modeling clay to get the weight closer to right without adding any lead inside at first! Simply add the clay to the bottom of the outside and once you've arrived at the right amount cut the M...Coat and install whatever the equivalent weight in lead the clay was! Or you could install weight box and go modern! I agree with the previous reduced movement amount and think that the 30 degree amount may be a bit much! I once installed two wheel collars, fore and aft of my fair lead on the push rod to directly limit the movement of an overly moved elevator on a Ringmaster!

Tally Ho,

Phil Spillman 
Phil Spillman

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 14476
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 07:53:38 PM »
If your airfoil the rudder you won't need much weight or less than you might otherwise have added.

Try using modeling clay to get the weight closer to right without adding any lead inside at first! Simply add the clay to the bottom of the outside and once you've arrived at the right amount cut the M...Coat and install whatever the equivalent weight in lead the clay was! Or you could install weight box and go modern! I agree with the previous reduced movement amount and think that the 30 degree amount may be a bit much! I once installed two wheel collars, fore and aft of my fair lead on the push rod to directly limit the movement of an overly moved elevator on a Ringmaster!


   I agree with this for the most part, although it's MUCH better to limit the travel of the elevator by reducing the speed of the controls, not by blocking it. A very long elevator horn with a relatively short arm on the bellcrank will make the elevator move less for a given amount of handle movement. Leaving it fast, but limiting the travel with hard stops leaves it very twitchy around neutral. Of course, it's still better than the classic "flipper" that moves +- 60 degrees. But you are probably right, depending on how much it weighs and what motor you, 30 degrees could be quite a bit too much.

     A kit Ringmaster with a Fox, with a flying weight in the mid-30s, and a near-the-aft-limit CG may be able to take as little a +-15 degrees. A really light custom-built model in the low-mid 20s, with Veco 19, 15FP, 20FP, etc, might be able to handle +-30. The rate should be adjustable - increase the elevator throw until it starts wanting to stall, then back up one step. Having more travel "for emergencies" just CREATES the emergency. Essentially ever kit  Ringmaster with stock control setup (to the extent you can tell what it was supposed to be)  and a Fox was undergoing almost continuous emergencies. The reason the airplane has such a bad reputation as a dog was because it was stalling at almost any control input. Fix that, and while it's no Impact, it's not nearly the same level of barking dog.

   I would disagree pretty strenuously that you can replace tip weight with rudder offset/airfoil. It will work to get more tension in level flight, but it could have dramatically bad effects on maneuvering. Taken to an extreme, you get Twister disease, where it seems OK in level and rounds, but hinges severely inboard on hard corners, and has no overhead tension. You need to get the airplane in balance laterally no matter how much weight it takes, and the rudder offset/airfoil just yaws the airplane out and kills the power. The fortunate thing is that it takes very little actual added weight, since the engine/tank hanging out there tends to provide most of the needed tipweight.

    Brett

Offline John Stiles

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1928
  • one shot=one kill
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 08:03:45 PM »
   I agree with this for the most part, although it's MUCH better to limit the travel of the elevator by reducing the speed of the controls, not by blocking it. A very long elevator horn with a relatively short arm on the bellcrank will make the elevator move less for a given amount of handle movement. Leaving it fast, but limiting the travel with hard stops leaves it very twitchy around neutral. Of course, it's still better than the classic "flipper" that moves +- 60 degrees. But you are probably right, depending on how much it weighs and what motor you, 30 degrees could be quite a bit too much.

     A kit Ringmaster with a Fox, with a flying weight in the mid-30s, and a near-the-aft-limit CG may be able to take as little a +-15 degrees. A really light custom-built model in the low-mid 20s, with Veco 19, 15FP, 20FP, etc, might be able to handle +-30. The rate should be adjustable - increase the elevator throw until it starts wanting to stall, then back up one step. Having more travel "for emergencies" just CREATES the emergency. Essentially ever kit  Ringmaster with stock control setup (to the extent you can tell what it was supposed to be)  and a Fox was undergoing almost continuous emergencies. The reason the airplane has such a bad reputation as a dog was because it was stalling at almost any control input. Fix that, and while it's no Impact, it's not nearly the same level of barking dog.

   I would disagree pretty strenuously that you can replace tip weight with rudder offset/airfoil. It will work to get more tension in level flight, but it could have dramatically bad effects on maneuvering. Taken to an extreme, you get Twister disease, where it seems OK in level and rounds, but hinges severely inboard on hard corners, and has no overhead tension. You need to get the airplane in balance laterally no matter how much weight it takes, and the rudder offset/airfoil just yaws the airplane out and kills the power. The fortunate thing is that it takes very little actual added weight, since the engine/tank hanging out there tends to provide most of the needed tipweight.

    Brett
Can I copy this reply and print it out, Brett? I want to remember this very wise suggestion! H^^
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline John Cralley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1236
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 08:18:22 PM »
All of the above have given you some good advice.

Try to keep the weight under 30 oz and 20 to 25 oz is better. As to elevator throw 25 degrees is plenty and excess throw will lead to stalling in hard maneuvers. Fifty eight to 62 foot lines are most often used and as stated above little rudder offset is required. One to two degrees of engine offset is also commonly used (a washer under the front mounts). Using clay to get level wings in both upright and inverted flight will allow you to come up with the correct tip weight for your model. Properly trimmed Ringmasters are great fliers and I seem to recall the Joe Gilbert, with a Ringmaster, won the Expert Old Time Stunt competition last summer at the Brodak Fly In!!

Do checkout the "Brotherhood of the Ring" for loads of Ringmaster information (you will have to register to see the forum).

Have fun.

John

John Cralley
Scratch Built - Often Re-kitted!!!
AMA 52183
Central Illinois

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 14476
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 05:07:04 PM »
Can I copy this reply and print it out, Brett? I want to remember this very wise suggestion! H^^

    Of course, that's what these forums are for!

    Brett

Offline Phil Spillman

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 806
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 09:03:01 PM »
Hi All, Here I go again with just one more idea! I forgot to mention my penschant for leather fillets! I use these without exception on all my profile planes new or used! They give a very firm mount to your fuselage and hence a much better engine run whether you're using a "modern" engine or a classic engine! Soak the leather in epoxy, or at least that's the way I do it.And also either cut small notches in the outside edges, as the piece goes around the leading edge of the wing, or use two pieces ending at the center of the leading edge and fill the gap with micro balloons then once cured sand smooth. This simple idea will prolong the life of the profile in a joint where it is most prone to fail!

Naturally for all this stuff there are a many ideas on what's best as there are persons expressing them!

Tally Ho!

Phil Spillman
Phil Spillman

Offline tom hampshire

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 391
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 06:36:36 AM »
For a wing fuse joint which hangs together and stops oil seep, replace the wing joiner with a tee brqace of 1/8 birch ply, so:

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 14476
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 09:52:29 PM »
Hi All, Here I go again with just one more idea! I forgot to mention my penschant for leather fillets! I use these without exception on all my profile planes new or used! They give a very firm mount to your fuselage and hence a much better engine run whether you're using a "modern" engine or a classic engine! Soak the leather in epoxy, or at least that's the way I do it.

   I was amazed at how strong my experiment in leather fillets turned out. Very very tough. I don't know why I am so surprised, leather holds 1000-lb cows together!

    Brett

Offline Bill Little

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12668
  • Second in COMMAND
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 02:57:18 AM »
Sir Thomas of Luper was winning everything in sight around here several years ago with a Ringmaster (OTS) which only had 15* of up and down.  He said that might have been more than needed.  His was powered by a McCoy 35 RH and was in the low 20 oz. range.

Mongo
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline John Stiles

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1928
  • one shot=one kill
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 08:08:14 AM »
   I was amazed at how strong my experiment in leather fillets turned out. Very very tough. I don't know why I am so surprised, leather holds 1000-lb cows together!

    Brett
Would some please post a picture of the leather fillets and explain how it's done without making a mess? H^^
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Online john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22975
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 08:14:10 AM »
Reading this I wonder how many people learned to fly with a Ringmaster built straight from the kit.  Using the plywood control horn and set up according to the plan.  I know I have taught a lot of people how to take off, fly level and land with a Ringmaster.  A lot of people also say they are ugly, but, for the period of time it was one beautiful airplane to me and was lower in price than the Firecat.  Of course after getting and building a Firecat I could see the difference in price with building quality.  Anyway, "Ringmasters" forever.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline John Stiles

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1928
  • one shot=one kill
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2009, 08:25:59 AM »
Reading this I wonder how many people learned to fly with a Ringmaster built straight from the kit.  Using the plywood control horn and set up according to the plan.  I know I have taught a lot of people how to take off, fly level and land with a Ringmaster.  A lot of people also say they are ugly, but, for the period of time it was one beautiful airplane to me and was lower in price than the Firecat.  Of course after getting and building a Firecat I could see the difference in price with building quality.  Anyway, "Ringmasters" forever.  DOC Holliday
Yer talkin about me now...I'm still in love with the ringmaster and have 6 goin on 7! Anybody that has a crashed ringmaster or one they think is ugly can send them to me, I'll pay the postage ;D
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Bill Gruby

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1488
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2009, 08:35:58 AM »
 You gotta get in line to get those "Pilgrim" By the way, if you have almost seven Ringmasters that 2667 sq. in. of wing area. I have four at 4734 sq. in. total.   LL~ LL~ LL~

  "Billy G"  VD~
Bill Gruby
AMA 94433
MECA 5393-10

Offline John Stiles

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1928
  • one shot=one kill
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2009, 08:41:23 AM »
You gotta get in line to get those "Pilgrim" By the way, if you have almost seven Ringmasters that 2667 sq. in. of wing area. I have four at 4734 sq. in. total.   LL~ LL~ LL~

  "Billy G"  VD~
I called it first LL~ LL~ LL~
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline raby fink

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 31
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2009, 08:45:57 AM »
We flew ringmasters (and crashed them) during my earlier years. I agree that they are beautiful and tough. Our problem was as kids, we thought that the greater elevater angle the better. You guys have taught me different. That may be why we crashed alot of Ringmasters (and others through the years). This is a great place to find knowledge about flying. Thanks again
Raby

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 14476
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2009, 10:11:42 AM »
We flew ringmasters (and crashed them) during my earlier years. I agree that they are beautiful and tough. Our problem was as kids, we thought that the greater elevater angle the better. You guys have taught me different. That may be why we crashed alot of Ringmasters (and others through the years). This is a great place to find knowledge about flying. Thanks again


   The eye of the beholder, I suppose. Jim 'Uncle Jimby' Aron's Ringmaster (cover model for the RSM Ringmaster Kit) got 20 appearance points at VSC.

     Tough, unfortunately, it isn't. Fortunately, given that the world has been graced with close to 1,000,000 of them over the years, the weak spots are well-known. The worst of all, by far, is the tendency for the fuselage to crack right at the wing leading edge. With the stock parts this will likely happen before you even get the engine started the first time. The stock doublers are of such poor quality and of such a shape that it's essential to replace them with real plywood that goes back much further. AND use the "t-joiner" as Tom described above, AND the leather fillets (or something similarly tough) and pass on the Fox 29/35 unless it's tricked out.  If nothing else, if you use the stock doublers, the engine will keep coming loose until the doublers have been completely compressed, from 3/32 start with, to about .005 after a dozen flights.

      The most dangerous problem is the bellcrank mount. The same crummy plywood just flat-glued to the spar will let go pretty quickly when subjected to the pull-test. There are a variety of methods to fix this, but at least replace the kit plywood with real 1/8 aircraft ply and reinforce the connection to the spar. And don't use model cement to put it together.

      If you fix the first two problems, and use (as is highly recommended) a small, high-rev motor, you might encounter the third problem. Since we started running better engines with better props (a 15FP works remarkably well on a kit Ringmaster), learned to cut the elevator travel to a reasonable amount, and generally learned how to trim, there have been a spate of Ringmaster wing failures. The reason is pretty obvious - the structure of the wing is absolutely terrible. All the wood is right down the middle of the structure, which is the worst possible place to put it.

     Back in the good old days with Foxes and +-60 degree "flipper" elevators, and kit leading edges carved from what appeared to be solid hickory (or balsa that closely approximated that) it never cornered hard enough to put any stress on the wing. Now. we are all clever guys who use the finest contest balsa, Veco 19's, and +-20 degree elevators that make it do full AMA stunt patterns with panache and decent scores. That is, until the wing folds and comes fluttering down at your feet.

So everybody needs to be careful trying to shave off weight. For reference, after seeing about 5 of them "clap hands", DO NOT, under any circumstances, do ANYTHING to remove "weight" from the first open rib bay, In particular, while it's fine to hollow out the leading edge starting about halfway out on each wing, DON'T do it in the first rib bay after the sheeting ends. If anything, you need to ADD something there to strengthen it.

      Trimmed and powered correctly (and the *power* is almost everything) the airplane will fly recognizable square 8's, hourglasses, or just about anything you can think up and can be nursed through to 500-point patterns if you are really good. Not bad for something with a reputation of having a tough time doing the OTS pattern.

      Brett

Offline Steve Fitton

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2278
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2009, 10:30:44 AM »
Would some please post a picture of the leather fillets and explain how it's done without making a mess? H^^

Here's a pic of the leather fillets:

Steve

Online FLOYD CARTER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4503
    • owner
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2009, 12:14:50 PM »
I've used leather fillets for years (beginning in about 1949, when they were sold as "patternmaker's fillets").  Now, Bill Sawyer sells them.

I read with horror the suggestion that the fillets are first "soaked" in epoxy!  That sounds like a big mess, and unnecessary.  The leather is very strong simply glued down with Ambroid.

After the Ambroid dries, I wet the leather (water) and burnish the outside curve with a convenient round tool.  This "sets" the concave curve and they look much better.  After the water dries, they keep the proper curve.

Floyd in OR
91 years, but still going
AMA #796  SAM #188  LSF #020

Offline John Stiles

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1928
  • one shot=one kill
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2009, 12:25:51 PM »
Here's a pic of the leather fillets:


Thanks, bro....I think I can handle that, I have one of those[in red and white] parked right out back! ;D ;D ;D H^^
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Phil Spillman

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 806
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2009, 08:59:52 AM »
Yes my epoxy soaking is a veritable mess! But I have two Ringmasters both built in 1975 which are still sound at the wing fuselage joint. Once soaked, probably with Ambroid as well, the material becomes more mailable/ shapable into the joint. My epoxy method is more durable than Ambroid and besides I believe that Ambroid is no longer available! I heard that the EPA shut them down due to the toxic ingredients contained in their mix. Sad for me in that I used it almost exclusively over the last 64 years.

Tally Ho!

Phil Spillman
Phil Spillman

Offline John Stiles

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1928
  • one shot=one kill
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2009, 09:04:31 AM »
Yes my epoxy soaking is a veritable mess! But I have two Ringmasters both built in 1975 which are still sound at the wing fuselage joint. Once soaked, probably with Ambroid as well, the material becomes more mailable/ shapable into the joint. My epoxy method is more durable than Ambroid and besides I believe that Ambroid is no longer available! I heard that the EPA shut them down due to the toxic ingredients contained in their mix. Sad for me in that I used it almost exclusively over the last 64 years.

Tally Ho!

Phil Spillman
Hi Phil, where do you get the leather? Will any leathers do, like bootlaces, or what? I'd like for you to tell me how it's done, if you will H^^
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Online john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22975
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2009, 09:23:40 AM »
Go to Vendors Corner here on the forum and look at Windancer Models by Bill Sawyer.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline bill marvel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Lafayette Esquadrille, St. Louis
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2009, 09:41:40 AM »
***SNIP*** ...and besides I believe that Ambroid is no longer available! I heard that the EPA shut them down due to the toxic ingredients contained in their mix. Sad for me in that I used it almost exclusively over the last 64 years.

Tally Ho!

Phil Spillman

Just an urban myth, Phil.  Ambroid is still available.  Try http://www.ambroid.com/Ambroid.html

You may have to buy a carton but it lasts forever.   I have a half a tube from the 1980's that is still good.

regards,
bill marvel
Bill Marvel, AMA 793835
Lafayette Esquadrille, St. Louis

Welcome to Stunt Hangar

Offline George

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1468
  • Love people, Use things.
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2009, 02:56:52 PM »
I bought a single tube at my LHS recently. I think it was about $4.00 for a 3.5 oz. tube.

The size puts it somewhere between the $0.25 tube and the $0.49 tube when I first used it.  y1

George
George Bain
AMA 23454

Offline Jim Kraft

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3431
  • AMA78415
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2009, 05:54:29 PM »
I use to use a lot of Ambroid, but never liked the way it bled orange through white dope. Went to Sig Sigment a long time ago, and it don't do that. Still use a little Duco also.
Jim Kraft

Offline Phil Spillman

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 806
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2009, 06:43:37 PM »
Hi John et al., Glad to learn that Ambroid is still available! I sent off to New England about 3 years ago and bought another quart of it! Back in the day when I flew Combat, 1960 through 1984, I Used ambroid almost exclusively! At one point I bought it by the gallon! But more to the point leather fillets are triangular cut Lengths of leather in various widths: 1/8 to 3/8" is the largest I've seen. The point of the triangle goes into the crotch of the joint you are wishing to make stronger and the "flat" part forms what might be called the face of the fillet. These things will last for a very long time as will the profile planes they're added to! Their lengths varies with the size of the hide from which they are cut so there really is no standard size per/SE! I have never been accused of being a "light" builder! But my planes fortified with leather fillets will take one fine beating and keep on....circling!

Tally HO!

Phil Spillman 
Phil Spillman

Offline dale gleason

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 842
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2009, 07:04:03 PM »
I've seen a lot of Ringmasters with bellcranks mounted as Brett described...even worse, for the bellcrank pivot in this case goes right through the mainspar. Edit: I was just "circling the bases" with that stuff about quarter inch spars. My bad. Having looked at an original set of Ringmaster plans and RSM's plans, I find the bellcrank mounts are the same-a 1/8th ply plate on which two 1/8th ply "buttons" are glued. The pivot bolt goes through all three plys. The plate is glued to the bottom wing sheeting and the whole "stack" is glued against the center rib.  This assembly is fairly robust and a 24 oz Ringmaster handles the whopping 15 lb pull no sweat. Get up over 40 oz with the pulltest getting close to 30 lbs and experience has shown you are treading on thin ice.

Another thing I've seen is the bolt the bellcrank pivots on has only one nut. At one time, bellcrank asemblies (Veco) were sold with two nuts, and an illustration on how to install them. Basically, the pivot  bolt is mounted securely through the plywood platform with proper washers and one of the nuts, then the bellcrank and bushing are placed on the pivot and then the second nut is placed on the pivot bolt and tightened.

Lastly, for what it's worth, The Jr. Ringmaster had the bellcrank platform glued to the wing spar, just as Brett described earlier.   

Respectfully submitted,
dg







« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 10:39:45 PM by dale gleason »

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 14476
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2009, 08:10:28 PM »
Here's a pic of the leather fillets:


   That's the "Before" picture, right?

    Brett

Offline nobler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2009, 11:01:52 PM »
Three or so years ago, I (partially) scratch built a R., using a S1-A wing, with the sheeted leading edge. Tried really hard to get the weight down, with contest balsa for the rest of it. I did run the doublers back to the peak section thickness (light ply on the inboard only), and drilled many holes in the mounts where they do not show. Also, one size down on the landing gear music wire, dyed clear paint, even a hollowed balsa canopy, which I admit is getting a bit anal. Extremely light wheels, too.

The result, with a FP 15, was just over 20 ounces. Flew it on 52 foot lines here in often windy Michigan, and it was a very relaxing flier. I since have changed to a FP 25, which of course provides plenty of power, so perhaps the FP 20 is ideal.

Currell

Online john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22975
Re: Ringmaster Technical Questions
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2009, 08:30:08 AM »
I use to use a lot of Ambroid, but never liked the way it bled orange through white dope. Went to Sig Sigment a long time ago, and it don't do that. Still use a little Duco also.

Good ole "Duco Household Cement".  I can't remember how many planes I built using the stuff.  But, then I started to fly competition in 62 and was told "Ambroid" was the only cement to use.  Of course when Charley's was out of Ambroid there was Testors Cement.  Having fun,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


Advertise Here
Tags: