Ringmaster Oldie

[Dave Moritz]

Hello to the bros here:

Looking for some advice or perspective on flying this model for fun. It was saved from the dumpster and is older than the hills, with original tissue/dope. I scrounged up a Veco 19 for power. It's scary weak on the wingovers and loops. Here are the stats:
- 32 oz. weight
- 10,500 rpm takeoff
- 5.2 second laps
- 58 feet of .014 stranded
- prop 9 x 3.5 (Top Fite 10" cut to 9")
- Fuel 8-24

I could go through a bunch of permutations but thought I'd check here first. My inclination is that I need more horsies up front (Fox 35 perhaps).

What do you think?

Dave Mo...

[Dave_Trible]

Yes more ponies always helps.  However that is an awful flat pitched prop too.  Try a 9-5 or 9-6.   That's what we used on a lot of .19s--accept Enya .19.  These can go like a bat out of haties with an APC 9-4.  Another option would be to go with 55' or 56' lines.   I'm flying my Fox .35 classic airplanes on 56' and like it.

Dave

[Dave Moritz]

Dave

A couple of very good suggestions there - more prop and shorter lines. Perhaps that’ll do the job.

Many thanks.

Dave Mo…

[Brett Buck]

Hello to the bros here:

Looking for some advice or perspective on flying this model for fun. It was saved from the dumpster and is older than the hills, with original tissue/dope. I scrounged up a Veco 19 for power. It's scary weak on the wingovers and loops. Here are the stats:
- 32 oz. weight
- 10,500 rpm takeoff
- 5.2 second laps
- 58 feet of .014 stranded
- prop 9 x 3.5 (Top Fite 10" cut to 9")
- Fuel 8-24

I could go through a bunch of permutations but thought I'd check here first. My inclination is that I need more horsies up front (Fox 35 perhaps).

What do you think?

Dave Mo...

   9-4 APC!

    A Fox 35 is *not* more horsies, I would guess a Veco 19BB in proper condition and set up correctly is 25% more powerful.

     Brett

[Dennis Toth]

Dave,
The Ringmasters like a little bit more speed than you are flyng speed on 58' lines about a 4.8 sec ish lap time. If your Veco 19 is the later BB version it can do the APC 9x4 set for a 2-2-2 run style. If it is the original Veco plain bearing go with the APC 9 x 5-6 still set for the 2-2-2 just on the rich side (use fuel with at least 25% total oil, 50/50 is OK).

Best,   DennisT

[Dave Moritz]

Dennis and Brett

My Veco is the BB version, so I take it that a Fox 35 would be a step down. The standard APC 9-4 comes to the rescue again. Thanks, Brett.

Dennis, I wasn’t aware this model likes faster laps. I’ll gladly shoot for that number.

Much obliged to both brothers of the ring!

Dave Mo…

[Dave Moritz]

Success! The 9X4 APC and 55-feet lines did the trick. In spite of my making two changes at the same time, I’ve got a sweet fly in’ model now. You gents’ experience and generosity really helped. Thanks.

Dave Mo…

[Brett Buck]

Success! The 9X4 APC and 55-feet lines did the trick. In spite of my making two changes at the same time, I’ve got a sweet fly in’ model now. You gents’ experience and generosity really helped. Thanks.

Dave Mo…

   55 foot lines!!! That's got to be crazy short lap times.

    Brett

[Gary Dowler]

On top of anything Brett tells you to do, Id suggest going back to 60' lines, straighten out any rudder offset and engine offset and try it again.  Rudder offset is counterproductive to maintaining line tension overhead. It hurts more than it helps.  Getting the aircraft to fly as tangent to the circle as reasonably possible is what you want.  Yaw increases drag which kills energy, especially overhead where you need it the most.  Speed is your friend here, which yaw kills.

Gary

[Mike Griffin]

   55 foot lines!!! That's got to be crazy short lap times.

    Brett

I was thinking the same thing Brett.

Mike

[Dave Moritz]

Gents
Will need to fire ‘er up and check out line lengths. Stay tuned.
Dave Mo…

[Dan Berry]

Gents
Will need to fire ‘er up and check out line lengths. Stay tuned.
Dave Mo…

Be aware that the best Ringmaster flyer ever uses 57 ft lines.

[Dave Moritz]

Gents: Here is the latest.

Flight One
- lines 55'
- 11,300 launch RPM
- laps 4.8 seconds

Flight Two
- lines 60'
- 11,900 RPM
- laps 5.1 seconds

Sorry about changing both the line length and the launch RPM, but it was just eating too much fuel on Flight One, so turned the needle in 1/8.

I like the feeling of Flight Two as the wingover resembles the feel of my Skyray / OS 20FP combo.

Dave Mo...

[Brett Buck]

Flight Two
- lines 60'
- 11,900 RPM
- laps 5.1 seconds

Sorry about changing both the line length and the launch RPM, but it was just eating too much fuel on Flight One, so turned the needle in 1/8.

I like the feeling of Flight Two as the wingover resembles the feel of my Skyray / OS 20FP combo.

    That's more like it, although still pretty slow. But yes, for something like this, theres so much excess power that the airplane is just there to aim the engine in the right direction.

    Brett

[Motorman]

Be aware that the best Ringmaster flyer ever uses 57 ft lines.

Is that eyelet to eyelet or handle to thrust line?

[Dan Berry]

Is that eyelet to eyelet or handle to thrust line?

Eyelets

[Dave Moritz]

Brett
Decreasing the lap time to 4.8 was much better for handling. Thanks.
Dave Mo…

[Brett Buck]

Brett
Decreasing the lap time to 4.8 was much better for handling. Thanks.
Dave Mo…

   Yes, they aren't going to do too well flying like Noblers. As I am sure you have found out, *reducing the control rates*, that is, making the elevator move very slowly for a lot of handle motion, is the key to getting them to fly decently.

    Brett
     

[Dave Moritz]

 I certainly did as you’d recommended this in another thread some time ago. Double thanks.

Dave Mo…