ringmaster engine

[Dan Berry]

Gents.
I need to know if a OS 25 FP will fly a stock Ringmaster. Is it a good choice?
 If so, how much tank are you recommending?

Thanks in advance.

Dan

[Tim Wescott]

An OS FP 20 will fly a Ringmaster admirably, as will an LA 25.  The FP 25 may work, but it may be a bit much.  I don't know how much like an LA 25 the FP is, but if you run an APC 10-4 prop on it and richen it up a bit it may be alright.

Use 60 foot lines.

[Dan McEntee]

  Excellant choice for a Ringmaster. Use a 3.5 to 4 ounce tank, muffler pressure, APC 9-5 to 10-4 prop, 1/2 synthetic/1/2 castor fuel with 22% total oil and 10% to 15% nitro, take off RPM anywhere from 9,000 to 10,000 RPM depending on prop and other variables. USe the stock muffler, as it helps out and you will most likely need the nose weight. The tank size will allow you to easily to the OTS pattern and the moder AMA pattern. Not quite the glamor and romance of a snarling Fox .35 but gets the job done quite well.
   Good luck and have fun,
     Dan McEntee

[Duke.Johnson]

Great chose. My son Daniel had a ringmaster with a OS .25 FP on a 10x6 prop and a 4oz tank.  It should have had a 3-3.5oz tank but other than that it flew very well.

[Clint Ormosen]

I agree. FP 25 will work well on that model. I can get through the entire pattern on less than 2.5oz of 10% fuel using a box stock version and a 9-4 APC prop.

[Dan Berry]

Thanks for the help.
I was wanting to use an engine that would run on 5% pop and synthetic oil as well as simply using something a bit more modern than the fox. I guess I can stock another fuel........
I figure the Nelson36 is only a good choice for special applications.

[Dan McEntee]

Thanks for the help.
I was wanting to use an engine that would run on 5% pop and synthetic oil as well as simply using something a bit more modern than the fox. I guess I can stock another fuel........
I figure the Nelson36 is only a good choice for special applications.

      If you are using 5% nitro sport fuel for R/C engines, it will run fine on that, just make the tank a little smaller. If it's something like Omega or any other pink synthetic blend, you can add castor. The extra castor just helps cool the little bugger while it's spinning away. If it's all synthetic it's probably only about 15% to 18% oil content, and the engine will run, just not last very long. The FP series engines have a plain bronze bushing for a front bearing, and that is another reason for the extra oil and castor. R/C engines are on and off the throttle a lot, and have lots of cooling time bewteen periods of high throttle. Control line engines runs in the constant RPM mode and are loaded all the time, and that is where the oil really comes in. You can't buy that engine any more, and piston/liner sets are hard to find, so it makes sense to take care of what you got.
    Type at you later,
      Dan McEntee

[Mike Griffin]

Dan I have probably built and flown 25 Ringmasters and gave most of them away.  I ran FP25 and OSLA25 on them with a 3.5 ounce tank and they did great.  A lot of people on here i noticed are using 10/4 or 10/6 props but I ran a 9/4 APC on mine and it flew great. 

I just loved Ringmasters for some reason.  Guess it goes back to my first plane when I was 14....

Mike

[Jeff Traxler]

APC has a 9.5x4.5 that works very nicely on my LA25.You might want to give that one a try too

[Dan Berry]

      If you are using 5% nitro sport fuel for R/C engines, it will run fine on that, just make the tank a little smaller. If it's something like Omega or any other pink synthetic blend, you can add castor. The extra castor just helps cool the little bugger while it's spinning away. If it's all synthetic it's probably only about 15% to 18% oil content, and the engine will run, just not last very long. The FP series engines have a plain bronze bushing for a front bearing, and that is another reason for the extra oil and castor. R/C engines are on and off the throttle a lot, and have lots of cooling time bewteen periods of high throttle. Control line engines runs in the constant RPM mode and are loaded all the time, and that is where the oil really comes in. You can't buy that engine any more, and piston/liner sets are hard to find, so it makes sense to take care of what you got.
    Type at you later,
      Dan McEntee

I get the fuel made. The bronze bushing is news to me. I'll get the castor into it.
Understand, I don't have the engine. I could be talked into the LA25 if that would also be a good choice.

[Chris Wilson]

Understand, I don't have the engine. I could be talked into the LA25 if that would also be a good choice.

So why limit yourself to one brand then?
An Enya SS 25 or 30 would be a good choice also.

[Steve Thomas]

So why limit yourself to one brand then?
An Enya SS 25 or 30 would be a good choice also.

x2. 

[Dan McEntee]

I get the fuel made. The bronze bushing is news to me. I'll get the castor into it.
Understand, I don't have the engine. I could be talked into the LA25 if that would also be a good choice.

     It's pretty much the same drill for the LA.25 also. They have a plain bushing front bearing also. In my opinion, they make just a tiny bit less power but still a very good match up for the Ringmaster. Same set up as the FP.25. You can find decent used LA.25 pretty cheap at swap meets and such with busted R/C carbs, and just swap them out for a venturi. Use the same tank, plug, prop, fuel, etc. as the FP.25.
    Type at you later,
       Dan McEntee

[Tim Wescott]

So why limit yourself to one brand then?
An Enya SS 25 or 30 would be a good choice also.

I find the FP 20 with the Brett Buck Tune Up to be a very good fit with a Ringmaster.  If anything, it's more motor than is really needed.  I've got a friend who runs an LA 25 in one and he runs it quite rich to keep from drilling himself into the ground.  So if that Enya 30 is significantly stronger than an LA 25 I'd hesitate.

[MarcusCordeiro]

I think the engine choice depends on who will fly the model.
Mine flies with the Enya 30, and I love it! APC 10X5 and a 3oz tank, 6 minutes of fun, fun, fun...
I love to fly my Ringmaster.
How can one old design like that still be soooooo cooooooolllll to fly???
It always cheers me up!!!
A video of a friend flying one with the Enya 30...



Marcus

[Brett Buck]

Gents.
I need to know if a OS 25 FP will fly a stock Ringmaster. Is it a good choice?
 If so, how much tank are you recommending?

   It's not a great choice because it has grossly excessive power for a Ringmaster. It will tend to go extremely fast - set properly in a medium 2-stroke, you will be going about 3.5-3.6 second laps with any commonly available prop. I would recommend a 20 or even a 15FP.

     Forget anything more than 4" of pitch. I would suggest a 9-4, 10-4, or 10-3 APC.

     It will use about 2 ounces of fuel when broken in. Brand new it will take about 4.5-5 oz, but that will go down drastically over the first 5-10 flights.

      Brett
 

[John Stiles]

Marcus, thanks for the video...I bet that combination would work on even longer lines.

[Larry Fernandez]

 I would recommend a 20 or even a 15FP.
 

      Brett
 
[/quote]


Before anybody shakes their head and discounts the FP.15, believe me when I say that the best flying Ringmaster from around these parts, was in fact powered by an FP .15. Uncle Jimby won Old Time at the Golden State Stunt Championships with one a few years back and I believe a couple of other contests as well.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Martin Quartim]

The Enya SS30 is a top seller here in Brazil. People use it with a 9-10x6 in 4-2-4 or with an APC 9x4-5 and APC 10.5x4.5 in 2-2-2.  It has mild timing and works really well in a wide range of conditions. No problem with going too fast, quite  the contrary.

Martin

[Tim Wescott]

Before anybody shakes their head and discounts the FP.15, believe me when I say that the best flying Ringmaster from around these parts, was in fact powered by an FP .15. Uncle Jimby won Old Time at the Golden State Stunt Championships with one a few years back and I believe a couple of other contests as well.

I sure ain't.  The way mine works with a 20FP I think it might be fine with a 15FP and my Ring is a porker.  Built lighter I think it'd do great with an FP-ish run and a smaller engine.

[john e. holliday]

Dan, if you have an FP .20 go with it.   No sense buying another engine when you don't have to.   Watched Dave Fitzgerald fly a Ringmaster at VSC and did very well with it.  Remember to keep it light.

[Brett Buck]

Dan, if you have an FP .20 go with it.   No sense buying another engine when you don't have to.   Watched Dave Fitzgerald fly a Ringmaster at VSC and did very well with it.  Remember to keep it light.

   Dave's has a Veco 19bb. Jim's has a 20FP. Keeping it light is not necessary for the engine to pull it, it performs much better an any weight with a 20FP than it ever did with a Fox. Keeping it light to be able to turn acceptably well is another matter, but you have to be very very careful because with a 15/19/20/25 it will corner so much better that there is a real danger of pulling the wings off of it.

   The single most important performance adjustment is to *make the elevator motion ridiculously slow*. That means a long elevator horn, a large bellcrank, or a short pivot to pushrod distance. The heavier or the crummier the motor, the less motion you can tolerate. Adjust the motion until full handle motion just avoids a stall.

   Brett

[Tim Wescott]

The single most important performance adjustment is to *make the elevator motion ridiculously slow*. That means a long elevator horn, a large bellcrank, or a short pivot to pushrod distance. The heavier or the crummier the motor, the less motion you can tolerate. Adjust the motion until full handle motion just avoids a stall.

I listened closely to this advice when I built my Ringmaster, then didn't go far enough and now I need to use 2-1/4" line spacing.  Brett means ridiculously slow.  If you have a drawing with the long elevator horn, use it.  Drill a new hole in the bellcrank that's as close to the pivot as it can be without interfering (5/8" I think is the quoted figure).

[Dan Berry]

How about a Magnum 25?
I can get it at a good price or trade.

[Howard Rush]

The Enya SS30 is a top seller here in Brazil. People use it with a 9-10x6 in 4-2-4 or with an APC 9x4-5 and APC 10.5x4.5 in 2-2-2.  It has mild timing and works really well in a wide range of conditions. No problem with going too fast, quite  the contrary.

Works great on Martin's Ringmaster.

[Chris Wilson]

How about a Magnum 25?
I can get it at a good price or trade.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=23182.0

[Dan Berry]

So, we're voting 'Nay' on the Magnum engine?

[Mike Greb]

I had a Magnum 25 on my ringmaster and loved it.  Ran it until it was so worn out I could not hardly start it cold.

[john e. holliday]

So, we're voting 'Nay' on the Magnum engine?

You never know  til you try it.   Everybody has their preferenes for power/plane combos.

[Dan Berry]

OK. I also have a OS 20 FP.
It's that or the Magnum 25.
What say the experts?

[Tim Wescott]

I love my ringmaster with an OS FP20 on it.  Does yours have the E2030 muffler?  Search on "Brett Buck Tune Up" and do what Brett says.  The short story is to use a bone stock FP20 with the E2030 muffler and an APC 9-4 prop, and CHANGE NOTHING.  Mine flies great.

[RandySmith]

There are many engines that work Great on that plane. not only the OS 20, but the Enya 20 ,25 ,or 30 will work very well, The GP 25 will also work well
The BB Veco 19, I even saw one with an old ST 23 running very well.

Randy

[Fred DiMaria]

I am just about done building an S-1 ringmaster and I drilled it out for a brand new Fox 35.  After watching the video of it with an enya 30, I am a littile hesitant, that thing really cranks.  I flew a little control line as a kid, but certainly not a stunt flyer.  I mostly went in circles and did an occasional wingover.  I am trying to step it up now.  I know the fox 35 was kind of a staple for this model, but honestly I have never seen one fly with a fox 35.

[john e. holliday]

The Fox .35 Stunt is a great choice for the Ringmaster if it is broken in properly and run right.

[Brett Buck]

The Fox .35 Stunt is a great choice for the Ringmaster if it is broken in properly and run right.

   And you do an extensive series of modifications to make sure it keeps running in outside corners, and doesn't shake the nose off the airplane in 1/2 a flight.

    Just about any small engine you can get today is a better choice, from a 15FP to maybe a 25LA (which is really too much) - no vibration issues, will keep running, and better "power".

    But even more important is SLOW CONTROLS, like +-1/2" or less movement at the TE of the elevator, with full hand motion.

     Brett

[Terrence Durrill]

The Fox .35 Stunt is a great choice for the Ringmaster if it is broken in properly and run right.

Hey, don't forget the Fox .29 stunt, while not as common and easy to obtain as the Fox .35 stunt these days, is also an excellent choice if broken in properly and run right.  I have an 1955 model Fox .29 on an S-1 Ringmaster that thinks it is a .35 stunt.  I can hardly tell the difference as it runs great and delivers more than enough power to get the job  done.         

[Howard Rush]

And if I were looking to buy a car to drive to the Nats, I'd try to find a 1959 Oldsmobile.

[Steve Helmick]

Having run both the .25LA-S and the Magnum XL .25 (hecho en China, a twin ball bearing engine), I'd be happy using either on a Ringmaster.  Find the right prop (around 4" pitch), and you'll like either of them. The Magnum will probably last longer, because it is twin ball bearing and real ABC, not ABN, but neither is a huge deal. I'd say that if you can get a nice Magnum XL .25 or .28 at a good price, go for it. They have been advertised for around $50 new from Hobby People, so bear that in mind. $25? 
I don't know anything about the Taiwan version, but since parts are probably not available, I'd probably pass.

The deal is that I don't like the plastic backplate RN setup on the OS, tho I did try it. Fuel ran back to the tank after choking, so starting was not great. The plastic backplates may be ok, or not, but I don't like to have problems when I'm at the field, so always change them out (also on the .40/.46LA) with aluminum ones. And a good .156" spraybar through the venturi. The stock size venturi works fine, but I drilled mine out to .272", and that also works fine.

With the Magnum, there is no CL version, so you need to get a venturi made for it. Mine has a .257" venturi bore and a .156" spraybar through it. This is on the small side...I'd suggest .265" as a happy size. The Magnum muffler works ok, and is lighter than the equivalent OS muffler, but the engine itself is heavier. Fox .35 and OS .40/.46LA mufflers bolt on, if you need nose weight. Their rear NV assy is excellent, but would probably suffer the same starting problems as the .25LA. Not a problem if you use an "electric finger".  Steve

[Dave_Trible]

x2. 

x3

[phil myers]

x3

x4 (ss25 +10x4 Graupner)

Phil

[Terrence Durrill]

And if I were looking to buy a car to drive to the Nats, I'd try to find a 1959 Oldsmobile.

Well, the 1959 Oldsmobile would certainly be a much better choice than a Toyota Prius....so as usual, that's another great choice, Howard!

Anyway, we are not all  "World Class Competetors".          

[James D. Hayes]

I'm running a Fox .35 on mine and I love it, it is the best part of my entire week when I pull the nose up and it breaks into a screaming two stroke. I'm still learning, I can do wingovers, inside loops and lazy eights so far. I'm flying in my first competition in August here in Albuquerque. All I can say is my fox .35 starts every time on one flip now that is is broke in and is a joy to fly.

Jim Hayes
New Mexico Control Line Addicts
AMA 988835

[Larry Fernandez]

And if I were looking to buy a car to drive to the Nats, I'd try to find a 1959 Oldsmobile.

How about a 58 Chevy Impala Convertible?

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[DanielGelinas]

Nah...
57 chevy Belair  with the fuel injected 283!!

[Guy B Jr]

Daniel,
Don't forget the 4 speed tranny.

[Andrew Saunders]

I use a fox 35 stunt on my ringmaster. I use a master airscrew 10x6 prop and it flies great with .015 x 60 foot lines.

[James D. Hayes]

Yep, same setup I use except I run a 10x5 because were high altitude here in Albuquerque.


Jim Hayes