Balancing Props and other advice.

[Glen Peterson]

I am looking for a bit of a sanity check here. I am an advanced level flyer and have been for the last 10 or so years. I have been flying since around 1982 but I am not a fanatic about it. Practice time and coordination keep me a bit limited in skill.
At our last club meeting a fellow that was just getting back into the hobby brought in a Goldberg Shoestring for show and tell. I mentioned that the tank should not be ¼” below the center line of the engine (a nice McCoy 35) if he plans on flying inverted and that he had way too much tail weight. He thanked me for the advice.
Later, we were talking props and I mentioned that he should learn to balance them. He looked at me funny and walked over to the club’s best flyer (expert Level) and asked him about balancing. He told him not to bother just take the prop put it on the engine and fly. That’s what he does. I’ve always balanced my props.
I have good equipment. but I’ve been admonished more than once for giving simple advice like this to beginners. Should I just stop. 

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

Of course you are correct that checking and adjusting prop balance is a great idea, as is estimating and subsequently checking/adjusting tank height.

Your expectations regarding how well, and how quickly, advice is accepted are something that you, yourself, own.  Getting a funny look and seeing that the person solicited a second opinion is par for the course.

Despite the initial pushback, you may find that both of your fellow club members eventually heed your advice.  It's human nature to question why there is a need to acquire a new tool like a prop balancer, then take the time to learn to use it.

Think of it this way:  Perhaps you tell another driver that they would be better served to use their turn signals.  You may find that their pride results in a dismissive comment, yet their behavior actually changes.

To answer your question, you are correct that there is a balance between offering advice and your expectations regarding how well it's accepted.  Adjusting your expectations is part of the process of getting along with folks, as is dealing with disappointments. 

[Ken Culbertson]

I have met several "Experts" who are not very "Expert" when giving advice and even more that think that just being an "Expert" makes them better than the rest.  Thankfully, in our neck of the woods we don't have any of those.  I balance every prop that goes on my airplane twice.  Once in the shop when I get them (last batch of 5 had 1 that was even close)  and again at the field if I need to change, or more likely replace one.  An unbalanced prop can affect just about everything you can think of.  Engine wear, fuel foaming, smooth 4-2-4 and even the planes joints are all affected.  You are shortening the life of your engine and plane if you use an unbalanced prop.  You don't need an exotic $100 device.  Just a simple desk one for the shop and a finger one for the flight box.  My desk one is simply 2 razor blades in a block of wood.

This is not 1975 where you could buy a handful of Rev-Up's and have all of them balanced.  Unless you go to some of the more expensive specialty suppliers, the chances of buying a balanced prop today approaches zero.

Sorry about the long winded answer but fliers that insult others who simply do not score as high really sets me off. 

Ken

[Glen Peterson]

Thanks for your comments. I usually give the advice once and leave it at that, as I did that night. I just want to help them keep their Plane on the right side of the ground.

[John Watson]

One of the first lesson I learned from my C/L mentor was balance the prop. I have seen the carnage created by an unbalanced prop and it ain't pretty..Vibration can demolish a beautiful work of art.

[Howard Rush]

Maybe the expert figured that the unbalanced prop would foam up the fuel, negating the problem of the mislocated tank.

Experts know stuff like that that the rest of us don’t know.

[Dan McEntee]

  And everyone knows what the definition of an "expert" is......................................................
     And that is a former drip under pressure!

  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[wwwarbird]

 I was at the same meeting and also talked with the same beginner. Real nice guy, some prior experience, but hasn't built or flown at all in like 25-30 plus years or something. I always feel it's best to start out simple in these cases, don't get them into overthinking everything and don't overload their brain with information that is irrelevant to their current flying abilities. No offense, but sometimes it's best to shut off the "Engineer Brain" for a bit.

 With his freshly finished Goldberg Shoestring there were a couple minor additional details to discuss down the road but I focused on just a couple of the glaring ones. I left it at agreeing with Glen and suggesting he move his tank up (while also showing and explaining to him a good general starting reference point for profile models) and also told him to ditch the excessive amount of tail weight he had added. That's all he needed to worry about on this model at this point. He had been concerned with having the plane balance per the plan which by his interpretation resulted in him adding a LOT of lead under the stab, like about 5 or 6 ounces! I've had at least three of the 'Strings over the years, the current one with a Fox .35 and a 1/4 ounce under the tail. It flies great for what it is, a Goldberg Shoestring.

 And as far as the prop balancing deal, I felt like it had a completely wrong prop on it in the first place, a Top Flite Power Point. I've never had a bit of luck with those props. I didn't mention it to him yet but I'd feel better starting with a Super M, wide Zinger or Rev-Up on the old McCoy, come flying time I'll donate a few he can try. I'm not going to say it's a bad idea or maybe props shouldn't be balanced either, but unless I notice some sort of issue I rarely do.

 Baby steps Glen, I suggest we just get him out to the field and make sure the engine runs decent and he can fly some laps before complicating things. 

[Ken Culbertson]

  And everyone knows what the definition of an "expert" is......................................................
     And that is a former drip under pressure!

  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

Boo..

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

One of the great joys of model aviation is the company we keep, the skills imparted by association.  We count amongst our number the craftsmen, mechanics, operating engineers, design engineers, pilots, space pilots, people of science.

There's a B-word that I don't like to use, as it is demeaning.  I substitute "difficult complainer," which goes more to the behavior.  And vibration can be a difficult complainer, sometimes inexplicable.  Good practice for any machine that has a rotating part is to balance the assembly in order to avoid the vibration effects before the machine is ripped apart. 

Do we have folklore?  Is the story that massive imbalance subsequent to a thrown prop blade will rip out the engine as if a big bite has been chewed out of the model part of that folklore?  Perhaps, but I'm glad that my mentors as a teen suggested I balance 100% of my props.

Peter