Reverse running Saitos

[Bob Reeves]

As I believe I was the first to actually run a reverse rotating Saito in a Stunt contest, which by the way it won in a 15 - 20 MPH wind against two electrics and a PA 61. I felt it was time for a How-To article.

Just finished this up and uploaded it to the Gluedobbers web site.

http://www.tulsacl.com/ReverseSaito.html

IC engines are not dead, at least not just yet.

[Paul Taylor]

Way to go Bob!!!!

Was this to take out the P Factor?

[Joe Yau]

That's awesome Bob!   Thanks for sharing the infos.. 

[Bob Reeves]

Way to go Bob!!!!

Was this to take out the P Factor?

Thanks....

I'm not the best one to be explaining this, It simply reverses some of the inherent wing flapping we see with normal counter clockwise rotating props. Where I really see the difference is at the top of the hourglass and top of the vertical eight. Instead of the outboard wing wanting to come up on outsides it wants to drop which helps with line tension and control. Of course the trade off is now it will want to come up on insides but most insides in the pattern are not at critical points like the outsides at the top of the verticals. Am sure someone can explain it much better, all I know is I like the way my airplanes preform with reverse engines enough to go through the trouble of doing it.

[Allan Perret]

Hey Bob:
Great job with the How To.  
This is the motivation I needed to go ahead with installation of reverse cam in my 62.
Have you found any other sources for the JFX props?       HiModels has crazy shipping cost.
The two JFX pushers you recommended (13" & 14"),  are you using them full diameter or cutting down ?

[Bob Reeves]

Hey Bob:
Great job with the How To.  
This is the motivation I needed to go ahead with installation of reverse cam in my 62.
Have you found any other sources for the JFX props?  
HiModels has crazy shipping cost.

Ya I know, the shipping costs as much as the props, haven't looked for another source, would be nice to find a USA distributor.

Forgot to answer your other question or did you add it later

I'm running the 13-6 on a 62 and a 56 as is, thinking a 72 would need the 14-6.. They act allot like the Rev-Up 13-7.

[proparc]

Thanks again Bob. I am working on "some" 4 stroke stuff that hopefully will take care of business too.

[billbyles]

As I believe I was the first to actually run a reverse rotating Saito in a Stunt contest, which by the way it won in a 15 - 20 MPH wind against two electrics and a PA 61. I felt it was time for a How-To article.

Just finished this up and uploaded it to the Gluedobbers web site.

http://www.tulsacl.com/ReverseSaito.html

IC engines are not dead, at least not just yet.

It seems to me that winning the contest depends upon "who" is flying the other airplanes as much as it does upon what engine/rotation you are running.

[RandySmith]

It seems to me that winning the contest depends upon "who" is flying the other airplanes as much as it does upon what engine/rotation you are running.

hmmmm ya think    

[proparc]

It seems to me that winning the contest depends upon "who" is flying the other airplanes as much as it does upon what engine/rotation you are running.

 
That if of course true, but Bob's statement is still valid in that, there is still a lingering "perception" that 4 strokes can't cut it in competition, and that is the reason for the lack of acceptance. Bob is continuing to show otherwise.

The other issue is that, Bob is NOT responsible for who decides NOT to show up. In a sense, the comment is somewhat condescending in that, it attempts to take away from Bob's victory, which I felt was a very good one.

Plenty of people won, say third place in stunt because only three people showed up. Hey, you won your third place trophy fair and square because, you obeyed the first rule of competition and that is, YOU HAVE TO SHOW UP.
 

[peabody]

Didn't Reme Berringer (SP?) have basckwards running Saitos at the '04 Worlds?

[RandySmith]

""The other issue is that, Bob is NOT responsible for who decides NOT to show up. In a sense, the comment is somewhat condescending in that, it attempts to take away from Bob's victory, which I felt was a very good one.""


Uh  NO  It does NOT take anything away from Bob's win, Bill statement was not in anyway condesending , unless you just feel you want to take it that way, to be serious, It is silly to think that  a 4 stroke, electric or IC "won" a contest.. The pilot who twisted the handle won the contest, and there are very many who can win with any power plant. Be it IC ,electric, or whatever .
Fly what you want, have fun with your choice of power, Bob didn't win because he had a better power plant, he won because he flew better than the pilots that did show.
Regards
Randy

[Bob Reeves]

Actually I really do give allot of credit to the way my 4 strokes run, doubt I flew 20 patterns all last summer and only attended two contests. The engine really gives me the confidence that the airplane will do whatever I ask and will do it everytime no matter what the conditions. It's hard to explain but I really don't feel I'm as good as the airplane is presenting.

[Bob Reeves]

Didn't Reme Berringer (SP?) have basckwards running Saitos at the '04 Worlds?

Yep forgot about that, heard he had a twin 30's or 40's and one of them had a cam he built by getting the individual parts and putting it together. OK so the first in the USA...

[proparc]

Yep forgot about that, heard he had a twin 30's or 40's and one of them had a cam he built by getting the individual parts and putting it together. OK so the first in the USA...

Remi's father Gilbert, runs Saito 40A's reverse on his Caudron Twin. One 40A runs clockwise, the other counter-clockwise to cancel torque. I have quite a bit of video footage of it. The props were hand made.

Gilbert also took second at a prior Worlds with a 56 before his son won with his 56. The Beringers also use to hold "Saito hop up" parties,(yes, they had wine, cheese, crossants etc) were they would teach the other French stunt flyers how to get them to run world class. I used to have a bunch of pictures of those parties.

All of this goes much farther back then the Beringers, but that is for another thread.

[Dan McEntee]

  I have met the Beringers at Oshkosh since they started going to AirVenture as vendors in 2006. Remi got off one plane fresh from the World Champs,  then got on another to Chicago and promptly got sicker than a dog after a day or so at Oshkosh! The next year and every year since the whole family has come over and I have had several talks with Gilbert about four stroke set up, and had him fly my Score with the Bob Reeves set up in it and he gave it high marks. The whole family is a delight to be around, and they rent a motorhome and camp with other KidVenture volunteers for the duration of their stay. I keep asking them to bring a model to fly or some of their custom made props so I could buy some, but this hasn't worked out yet.
  I have models ready to fly with a Saito .56 in one, St.51 in others, and ST.60 in one. All good engines that make different types of power. Some people relate to one type better than others. There was a point during my four stroke learning curve that I was ready to commit it to being a fish tank decoration, but got over that hump and like it a lot. I find all types of engines interesting and bounce from one to another. I can see how a person can have a significant improvement in flight score by using a particular power plant, as good score go part and parcel with confidence and comfort, but it usually is also coincided with a wel trimmed model allso!
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[EddyR]

I think what Bob was saying is he didn't beat guys flying Ringmasters. He was up against very good planes.
Ed