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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: John Miller on March 14, 2011, 09:00:20 PM
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Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, have been fantastic practise days. The weather gorgeous with a decent stunt wind that sometimes shifted around as thermal blew through. Over the last several days, more and more folks have been arriving.
It's great to see old friends again, and the need for taller boots occurs several times a day, as stories are passed around.
This afternoon, The Heyworths put on a catered BBQ at the Ramada on the south side of the field. Super food, and lots of interesting people to mingle with.
Here're some pictures from the practise days.
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More pictures, album 2
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Album 3
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Pitty about the weather.
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Thanks John. Can't tell you how much we have been looking forward to the daily pictures.
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Thanks John! y1
Good to see Lew made the trip too. Please keep the pics coming guys. H^^
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Thank you very much. It's good to see all those guys there.
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Today, tuesday, the action begins with OT Stunt competition. I'll be taking more pictures today, and hope to get more of the guys and their airplanes. So far, only one crash, and we don't know what really happened. Unfortunately, a nice airplane was destroyed right after take off, but even worse, the engine was totally destroyed.
The Brazillion contingent arrived, Dr. Case, his son, and Bene Rodriges (sp). I understand that M. Hiki had contacted the CD, and was still trying to get a plane out of Japan. It's hoped that he wil be successful.
Wish you all were here.
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Looks like a fine event already.
Wish I could be there; having these photos is very nice, and much appreciated. 8)
L.
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not." -H. L. Mencken
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John,
Thanks so much for the wonderful pictures. You can't imagine how much I wish I were there. The VSC is a rare and beautiful thing to behold - a couple of the best times I've ever had! Those pictures just bring it alive - sights, sounds, and all. It's good to hear again that so many have made the trip, at some personal sacrifice these days.
SK
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Sure wish I was there. The weather here stinks.
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Tuesday report, first day of OT stunt
Beautiful weather today, a bit chilly this morning, but a light jacket took care of the eproblem, and was not needed after about an hour.
A couple of crashes, but nothing bad. We were finished by noon, just as the wind picked up a little.
I've added captions to the pics, most are self explanatory.
This will take several posts, as I have over 100 pictures to share.
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OT report page 2
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OT report page 3
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Sorry about the mix up and doubling of pictures. I'll finish up later, the party at Rickii's starts in a few minutes. H^^
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OT Stunt report number 4
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OT Stunt report Number 5
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OT Stunt report number 6
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OT Stunt report number 7
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OT Stunt report number 8
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OT Stunt report number 9
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OT Stunt number 10
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OT Stunt report number 11
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OK my friends, that's it for today on OT stunt. Tomorrow is round 2. H^^
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How's Pete P. doing with his Venus re-re-trimming going, and will he fly Classic? HIHI%% Steve
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Go Dale! Looks like he got a good flight in round one!
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Go Dale! Looks like he got a good flight in round one!
Rock on Dad! Looks like he is in the Hunt.
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Stevee, I watched him put in a few good flights on the Venus over the weekend practise sessions. I think he's made progress with it, but, his back is giving him fits right now. It was pretty noticable last night at Rickii's pizza party.
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That take apart Squaw is pretty awesome!
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Yea, Pete's been fighting that back on and off for a bit. I wish him luck and Advil.
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Kind of glad I didn't go this year. A field full of Jamisons and Humongii would be pretty discouraging.
Floyd
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Great pictures, its snowing as I type this. Maybe next year. Thanks muchly for the report and, and did I mention GREAT pictures. H^^
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Kind of glad I didn't go this year. A field full of Jamisons and Humongii would be pretty discouraging.
Floyd
Floyd,
I think the "field full of Jamisons and Humongi" indicates the changing nature of OTS at VSC. Instead of coming to Tuscon to demonstrate a little kown or obscure design regardless of performance potential, modelers are now focused on WINNING THE EVENT AT ALL COSTS. This a natural development in competitive environments, but it makes for a much less interesting event. Had I attended VSC this year, I would be flying my Barnstormer/Fox .35 as I believe it to be competititve with both of the afore mentiones aircraft. Maybe the pendulum swings both ways.........we shall see. S?P H^^
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Floyd and Terrence.
It is safe to say that next year we will have airplanes that are different. There are many airplanes that can be flown well. I am sure that Uncle Mikey is biting his tongue.
It is amazing that at the 1st OTS contest (Oct 1970) some of us got on the phone to make sure that we didn't all build the same airplanes. We were afraid that there would be nothing but "Barnstomers" and "All American Srs". Now look!
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Here are links to my photos of the first two days;
Mike Ostella
http://cid-6bfe1cba2c7f745c.photos.live.com/browse.aspx/VSC%20Day%202?nl=1&uc=13
http://cid-6bfe1cba2c7f745c.photos.live.com/browse.aspx/VSC%20Day%20one
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Just received word that our own Joe Gilbert won both OT Iginition and OT Stunt.. Way to go Joe, the Gluedobbers are proud...
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My wife is upbraiding me for not going to the VSC. She has also been nagging me to go to Oshkosh and the Reno air races. Strange woman.
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Thanks for the pictures! One can only hope.............. ;D
Big Bear
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Hey Howard!! You should be proud to have a wife that wants you to go to contests and
other plane related functions. Does she have a sister?????
Hope to see you at the Nats!
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Just received word that our own Joe Gilbert won both OT Iginition and OT Stunt.. Way to go Joe, the Gluedobbers are proud...
Way to go! H^^ CLP** BW@ HH%% 8)
We're gonna have to start calling him "Smokin Joe"!
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Joe Gilbert won Both Ignition OTS and Glow OTS flying a Ted Snow Humongous powered by an Amderson Spitfire .60 ingition engine.
Don't know this to be a fact, but I don't remember anyone winning both events on the same day.
Congratulations, Joe!
Did you know that he is a Tulsa Gluedobber?
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Joe Gilbert won Both Ignition OTS and Glow OTS flying a Ted Snow Humongous powered by an Amderson Spitfire .60 ingition engine.
I have seen several Sptifires run over the years, and they always ran great. But there's some good flying involved, too, if he beat "Bartron"!
Brett
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Just received word that our own Joe Gilbert won both OT Iginition and OT Stunt.. Way to go Joe, the Gluedobbers are proud...
Way to do it Joe!. The man can fly.......
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y1 <= Wish I was there. Videos Please !!! n~ ;D
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Joe won both events flying his Humongous on ignition. I got to watch both of his ignition flights and they were really good. I am sure the score board will get posted soon. There were a lot of good flights in ignition with I think everyone that flew had good runs except me on the first day. But I changed the spark plug in my Anderson, and came back to get 3rd by a narrow margin. It sure has changed from a few years ago when everybody was lucky to get there engines to run for the whole pattern. I saw some really great engine runs. It is just to much fun to fly with a bunch of guys that are only flying sparkers. Some great old time planes also.
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Link to photos of appearance judging.
Mike Ostella
http://cid-6bfe1cba2c7f745c.photos.live.com/browse.aspx/Appearance%20judging?sa=508336376
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I was privledged to judge one of Joe's flights, and he was indeed Smokin' Joe! Clearly the best in our circle that day. Usually I don't know who was best as there are ups and downs in most patterns. His were all ups!
Way to go! #^
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Mike,
Thanks for the pictures. Imagine, that without Appearance judging, you would never see that display of awesome airplanes in one area. That is a show in itself. I would hate to have to pick a best of show.
Congratulations to Joe. He is a really great guy. Did you know that he is also a member of the Dallas Model Aircraft Association? Joe we are proud of you.
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I guess Floyd forgets that one design does not gaurantee a win in Old Time. There is quite a veriety of craft here this year. Still a lot of one offs on the flight line. Terrance you need to experience the VSC to find it is not all about winning as some would have you beleive. There is the friendships that have been made over the years. Don't know how many more of these I can make but, GOD willing I will be here. May be like the great Rusty Brown, show up with the dog after entering and just relaxing and visiting. Still miss the man and quite a few others that I would not have met if not for the VSC. See no emoticon for how I feel right now.
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Joe Gilbert won Both Ignition OTS and Glow OTS flying a Ted Snow Humongous powered by an Amderson Spitfire .60 ingition engine.
Don't know this to be a fact, but I don't remember anyone winning both events on the same day.
Congratulations, Joe!
Did you know that he is a Tulsa Gluedobber?
I am pretty sure that Joe is the first to win both OTS events at VSC.
Tom Jolly from England came close in '99 with a win in ignition and a 7th in the regular OTS event. He flew the same Monitor with an Anderson Spitfire for both events.
I have not checked all of the records, but this was the best perromance in both events prior to Joe's accomplishement today. Congratulations to Joe for each of the two events flown these past two days.
Keith
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Thanks for all the pictures and the reports. Congratulations Joe!
y1
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Congratulations Joe.
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My photos of the first day of classic
Mike Ostella
http://cid-6bfe1cba2c7f745c.photos.live.com/browse.aspx/Classic%20day%20one
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Looks like Bobby is doing it again.
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Terrence. That is exactly what I've been preaching. But there are still some who do not observe the obvious.
Of course, availability of quality kits of these planes makes it easy to decide on a build.
F.C.
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Wait til it's over and see how many are in the top ten. VD~
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I noticed this plane (that looks like a Jamison but isn't), and wondered if anybody could give more info on it? It appears to have a sparker in it. I like it! Also really like Warren T.'s "Blackbird" a whole lot...saw it up close at Clovis. Really a great looking design from Gene Shaffer.
Ditto on the congratulations to Joe Gilbert. I noticed his excellent flying in '07, again in '09, and thought then he was a contender. The best thing I noticed is that Joe always seems to be having fun. That's the way it oughta be. y1 Steve
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That might be Bob Lipscomb's ship.
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You guessed it Elwyn. That is Bobs Bandit. It was a Johnny Casburn kit back in the late 40's early 50's. Bob did an excellent job on it as he always does. It flew very well with and Anderson Spitfire 65. I learned a few things from Bob on Andersons this year. He is a great guy, and a great modeler.
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Floyd,
I think the "field full of Jamisons and Humongi" indicates the changing nature of OTS at VSC. Instead of coming to Tuscon to demonstrate a little kown or obscure design regardless of performance potential, modelers are now focused on WINNING THE EVENT AT ALL COSTS. This a natural development in competitive environments, but it makes for a much less interesting event. Had I attended VSC this year, I would be flying my Barnstormer/Fox .35 as I believe it to be competititve with both of the afore mentiones aircraft. Maybe the pendulum swings both ways.........we shall see. S?P H^^
It looks like Floyd had a point which I suspected was correct. In OTS, EIGHT OUT OF THE FIRST TEN PLACES WERE EITHER, YES, JAMISON OR HUMONGOUS DESIGNS. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BARNSTORMERS?
Joe Gilbert Humongous Anderson 65 316.00 325.00 641.00 1
Bob Whitely Humongous [/u] DS-60 307.00 324.00 631.00 2
Bart Klapinski Madman Tower 40 306.00 322.50 628.50 3
Keith Trostle Big Job DS-60 307.75 319.00 626.75 4
Gaylord Elling Humongous ST-60 294.00 314.75 608.75 5
Robin Sizemore Jamison OS 46LA 295.50 309.00 604.50 6
Lou Wolgast Jamison Brodak 40 290.75 311.00 601.75 7
Charlie Reeves Big Job FOX 59 F.I. 295.00 306.25 601.25 8
LeRoy Black Jamison DS-54 307.00 290.75 597.75 9
Dale Barry n or Humongous Aero Tiger 36 / PA-40SE 305.50 288.75 594.25 10
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To add to Terrence's comments:
The top 10 in OTS had only ONE airplane that was on the original OTS eligibility list: The "Madman".
Almost 1/2 of the OTS entries comprised of "Humongous", "Jamison" and "Big Job".
There were 9 flying entries in OTS Ignition. 5 of the 9 were "Humongous". Only 4 were on the original eligibility list
Here's hoping that next year there is a larger variety in the true spirit of OTS. There are many good flying OTS airplanes!
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To add to Terrence's comments:
The top 10 in OTS had only ONE airplane that was on the original OTS eligibility list: The "Madman".
Almost 1/2 of the OTS entries comprised of "Humongous", "Jamison" and "Big Job".
There were 9 flying entries in OTS Ignition. 5 of the 9 were "Humongous". Only 4 were on the original eligibility list
Here's hoping that next year there is a larger variety in the true spirit of OTS. There are many good flying OTS airplanes!
Perhaps, Tom, next year YOU will be there with some new-to-VSC model.
Bill
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Hi Tom,
I can't blame the guys for flying a model that is obviously very competitive as the Jameson and Humongous evidently are. But I would love to see more OTS models flown, too. ;D
The Big Job (if I ever get a long shaft Fox .59 from a good friend of mine! LOL!!) and the Cheek Cowl Barnstormer have become my favorite OTS designs lately.
Of course, I plan on first building a Stuntwagon 30 from laser cut ribs I got from "someone" here. ;D Just have to decide on which engine to use. I have a great little Veco .29, or possibly a "wrong side"exhaust stack Veco .35.. Maybe a '51 sandcast Fox .35 or an "old" McCoy .29SS...... probably the Veco .29 (or how about a '54 Fox .25?) LL~ LL~
Take care, my friend
Bill
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Bill Lee,
I plan on being at VSC next year.
I will have an OTS airplane that has only been seen once or twice at VSC. It will have an engine that, according to Uncle Mikey, has never been seen at VSC. It is almost finished. I am currently detailing it and then it will get the clear dope top coat to complete it. I should have it trimmed out in a couple months. I am building this particular airplane in honor of my long time friend, John Miske.
For Classic I am in the finishing stage of an airplane that, to my knowlege, has never been at VSC.
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Here's to Floyd.....
You may recognise this machine from 1950, sort of a Yates "Dragon" on steroids.
Dick Wolsey sent me this as a kit after last year's VSC when he heard I liked the design,
"not one of those". All was in readiness, I thought, but Dick, as we all know, didn't make it.
The Orwick 60, with some machine work by John McCollum, was sparking nicely the day we left home, but failed
to carry through, even after two nights scratchin' my head and swearing violent oaths. So we dropped out.
Hopefully, all will be in order for the NATs OTS this year, and VSC next year.
While on the subject, the VSC caters to everyone, some have mostly competitive desires, others want to bring in
the little known Old Timers. There's a mixture, and the proportions change, but there is a constant in this equation....
everyone is happy. Thanks to Robin, Lou, Jim, and all those who put this fine event on for all of us to enjoy.
dale g
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There are a couple of reasons for larger planes in ignition. Most of us run 60 size engines as they are not quite as fussy as the smaller sparkers. Also easier to get the right amount of fuel in them for the right run time. The other thing is the weight of the batteries, coil, and ign. module. There are other old time planes that will fly well with 60 size sparkers. Viking, Go-Devil, Chief, (early version), and Bob Lipscomb's Bandit flew great. I have often wondered what it would be like to fly a Yates Dragon with a 64 Orwick on 70' lines. I just may have to try it.
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It is amazing, miss a couple of days on the forum and looks what happens. It takes several people that have never been to the VSC, the NATS or any big contest to find something to complain about. I imagine if you too the same people in the top ten and give them time with another plane you will still find them in the top ten. I know several of them have had different designs in the past. If all you are going for is the gold, then fly the equipment you think will get you there. Don't moan and groan about what design is doing what. The same airplanes in my hands would not help me one bit. That goes for any contest. The one who works the hardest is the one that is going to win. I have watched Joe Gilbert thru the years and he deserves what he won at VSC this year. Old Time Stunt may be a simple patern, but one that is hard to do correctly. As they say about the AMA pattern, it is the simple maneuvers that hurt most people. Watche a lot of double take offs and bouncing landings. A lot of maneuvers not placed on top of each other like the very simple loop. Also keeping the two full inverted laps. Some were coming up short on the full two laps and not maintaining the level portion. So the Humongous and Jamison were in the majority of the top ten, now you guys complaining take one of the planes and see if you can fly it as well as the individuals that were there.
If you had been there you would have seen a lot of different designs in Old Time as well as Classic. I too thought of building the Humongous kit I have, but do not think it would help my flying any. As some one has already stated, it takes a big plane for the big 60 ignition engines. Now I want to say I had a great time with a week of great weather and flying. R%%%%
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Doc is right on, in the vast majority of cases it's the one who's holding the control handle that determines the win. Of course it can help some, but it's not so much to do with the plane or anything else.
You could give some of these guys an old fuel soaked Ringmaster with half the outboard wing missing and they'd still kick your butt.
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It is amazing, miss a couple of days on the forum and looks what happens. It takes several people that have never been to the VSC, the NATS or any big contest to find something to complain about. So the Humongous and Jamison were in the majority of the top ten, now you guys complaining take one of the planes and see if you can fly it as well as the individuals that were there.
(snip)
If you had been there you would have seen a lot of different designs in Old Time as well as Classic. I too thought of building the Humongous kit I have, but do not think it would help my flying any. As some one has already stated, it takes a big plane for the big 60 ignition engines. Now I want to say I had a great time with a week of great weather and flying. R%%%%
Hi Doc,
Both Tom N. and I have "been to the NATS", and flown there. Tom HAS been to VSC. I have also been to Brodak's a couple times (pretty BIG meet). No, I have never been to VSC. A few thousand miles travel each way, and a JOB that kept me working 18 or more hours a day, 6 to sometimes 7 days a week, for over 30 years prevented the trip to Tuscon. And the distance may well still prevent me from EVER attending even though I am now retired. So two of us that are "complaining" are NOT in your little group that YOU are "complaining" about.
Hmmmmmm...... or is just that neither of us have WON at VSC or that we don't have a Walker Trophy? If so, count yourself in that group. You seem to have cast a wide blanket, and one that is actually irrelevant to the conversation at hand about a proliferation of two designs being dominant.
I have always stated that the guy on the handle is the guy who wins, a plane is just a part of it.
But I can "complain" that The Humongous and Jameson are the two planes that seem to show up at the top all the time and that "I" would personally like to see a lot of other more obscure models, since OTS is an event that was began for the purpose of "showcasing OLD MODELS". Of course, winning is important to human beings, or else we wouldn't have competitions. I know, I never coached or participated to lose. And I did it at a level higher than 99% of the population (at least) did. But when it comes to toy airplanes, it is a different ball game to me. I would STILL like to see some planes fly that I never got a chance to see fly. And I will keep saying that even though I may never get a chance to travel to Tuscon, much less win there or at any other major contest. Guess Tom and I have no right to voice opinions.........
Bill
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Bill,
Me too...
Ward-O H^^
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Like I said elsewhere, I have nothing against the Humongous, Jamison, or Big Job. I would just like to see more of a variety in OTS whether it is at VSC or any other event.
My VSC flying is better than the record. My last trip to VSC in Classic I left the triangles out on my secind flight. Mathematically if I had the same triangle score as my first flight I would have been top five. I don't think that that is bad considering the level and quantity of flyers at VSC.
I also laugh at myself for getting the Pachyderm Award for mixing up the maneuver order in OTS at VSC. I am in some pretty prestigious company for that.
I was a podium finisher at the very first OTS event, October 1970. I CDd the very first OTS contest outside of NJ, in St. Louis the following summer of 1971. I have won OTS and Classic and Expert events, so I don't think that I am new to these events.
And like most of us, family and job priority has cut practice time down.
At that very first GSCB OTS event we made an effort to make sure that we didn't all have the same airplanes. Again, I would just like to see more variety, and there are many more "competitive" OTS airplanes.
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Built a Humongous from one of Ted Snow's quarter scale drawings and flew it to 17th place in 1999, my best finish ever. It was a favorite airplane, and fairly scarce at the time. I will never make the top 10, so I compete in a different contest. I try to have a unique airplane, and fly it through two recognizable patterns in a fairly organized manner. Dmeco Sportwing for example. Who says you can't make one fly a pattern? The large majority of contestants at the VSC, by definition, will not make the top 10. So why not come to my contest and try to show up with something no one else has, and demonstrate that it will, in fact, fly a recognizable pattern.
I judged OTS this VSC and last, and in 2000. The level of OTS flying has steadily increased with time. Last year, I saw one 10 point dive. This year, I saw half a dozen, for example.
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Lessee now--- hmmm First OT plane -- AAsr only because I wanted to get one from Lone Star as they were getting into kit biz. next- Stunt Wagon 30, then Testors Senior 29, and last a Guided Whistle. I guess I haven't built any "obscure" models.
It matters not what criteria is used for cutting off eligibility for OT stunt . There will always be one or two state-of-the-art designs that meet the applicable criteria of the moment that, in the hands of very good fliers, win some prestegeous contests. Then shortly thereafter, many fliers start showing up flying that particular design. It happens in almost EVERY event too--- not just OT stunt.
What bugs me more is the allowing of a "design" based ONLY on an old vague picture ( sometines taken at an angle). Nobody, or very few people ever having heard or seen it. I do not see how anyone can tell what the airfoil shape or thickness is from a flat on picture. Then when it is allowed, it seems strange that many "modern numbers just happen to fall into that design. I think we should go back to the original GSCB rules--- "PUBLISHED OR KITTED" that would eliminate much controversy.
Bigiron
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Hear, Hear!
W.
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Jim K. I can tell you just how a stock Madman with Orwick 64 on spark ignition flies! I brought exactly that to the first VSC in CA. Geo. Aldrich was one of the judges. On my second flight, the plane pancaked in at full power at the bottom of a vertical 8. Lesson here: This plane with big motor and spark ignition is too heavy! Wing loading too great for reliable pull-outs. I repaired the plane and flew it several times later on. But it did exactly the same thing; pancaked in. So I gave up. Now, I have the "extended Madman", the larger version that JC Yates built and flew. It weighs a bit less than the standard Madman and with Orwick 64 power. However, it will pull out very nicely.. not as quick as a more modern plane, but plenty good enough for OTS pattern.
Of course, a Madman, built carefully, with light wood, and powered by a strong 29 or 35 is still a winner!
Floyd
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(Clip)
What bugs me more is the allowing of a "design" based ONLY on an old vague picture ( sometines taken at an angle). Nobody, or very few people ever having heard or seen it.
(Clip)
Bigiron
Well now, lessee: Marvin, do you have any specifics? I am sure you do. So, if you have a problem with any particular design or designs that are being flown in OTS, why don't you come out and say what you really intend to say. In a way, you are casting doubt on any nmber of unpublished and unkitted designs that are probabaly as legitimate as many of the so called designs being flown now from the "original list".
Keith
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Keith, you are not going to bait me into attacking ANY individual. There are more than one, two, or three examples out there that could be cited.
Bigiron