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[Rusty]

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[John Stiles]

I am really discouraged by all of this.  I thought there were more real modelers amongst this group that wasn't dependent on Johnny Comelately who has a laser cutter. 

Thank God, I am old school. 

I reckon that just means like me....yer basicly maxed out and hafta buy wood and draw your parts on with carbon paper....then cut them, sand them, and in the case of ribs, size them. That is indeed a terse description of "BOM"......thats why there's so much controversy. If we really wanted to go back to prehistoric times, you could add "design" your own model as well! But like all things[see "The Constitution of the USA"] there are amendments to the rules as time goes by. Then eventually, like communism; everybody gets the same thing, or they get nothing! HAHAHAHA! Yep, and if your rich.......................................oh well, we'll just stop right there!

[Brett Buck]

It is because of this, you see fewer and fewer articles in the magazines on buying the plans and cutting your kit. 

   Maybe, but I note also that you may see fewer and fewer articles in the magazines on buying the plans and building the airplane because no one can figure out how to make any money off of it.

    That's where the root of the BOM discussion is - my ultimate goal is to prevent the encroachment of excess commercial interest. "Excess" is of course in the eye of the beholder but my personal line is buying (hideously expensive) mostly-prefabricated airplanes and then flying them at the NATs. That's just me, of course.

    The rest of the argument is essentially posturing to deflect people from seeing that goal, since no one will care very much about that and it's a mostly-indefensible position. So instead we argue about "making it more accessible", "growing the hobby", and low-level competition, even though no one pushing prefab models care anything about that.

    Brett

[Randy Powell]

>>I reckon that just means like me....yer basicly maxed out and hafta buy wood and draw your parts on with carbon paper....then cut them, sand them, and in the case of ribs, size them.<<

I don't have any inclination to argue here. I've stated my thoughts on it many times. But suggesting that because I build planes from scratch (and I do design them, by the way), I'm somehow less than folks that build from a kit or just buy their plane is condescending and insulting.

[John Miller]

While I'm in basic agreement with many of the ideas presented in this thread, I can't help but be confused with what appears to be a bias against laser cutting parts. Come on, Die cut parts have been used for years, and seldom a peep against them. The same for machine cut parts.

I cannot help but think it might be because you cannot easily have parts laser cut without digitizing the plans first. Perhaps, it sort of implies, they are in the realm of "unobtanium".

The days of hand drawn plans will never be over, Good hand drawn plans can be a work of art, but you'll never easily get the files needed directly from them. That's OK though, as more toy plane designers are using CAD, or digitizing older plans.

Like Randy, I design my own, either cut my own, using pattern sheets I also drew, or laser cut parts from my own files, but I wouldn't think of considering anyone who builds from a kit, whether laser cut, Die cut, or machine cut, less of a builder. Perhaps that's not the message the poster is trying to convey.

[Avaiojet]

Rusty,

Hang on there and cheer up! I started building in the early 50's. Got you beat. 

Sure, there's plenty of guys like us that started building with single edge razor blades broken in half and taped.

Thing is, today they have X-Acto blades in great handles with a thing on the end to keep it from rolling.

Less cuts and infections that way.

Gotta admit, I'm old school, never built a laser cut anything. However, I see no reason not to. In fact, I will be. I'm designing a model and sending the file out to be laser cut. It's great! Email electricity, or whatever it is, and a box of parts is delivered to your doorstep. Nothing wrong with that picture.

Look, doesn't matter to me what others do. I find myself interested in anything that is modeling and anyone that's a modeler.

Hey! Just cuz you know about it doesn't mean you gotta go that route.

Nothing in these photos are laser cut. Most models are scratch built from purchased plans or my plans. A kit too, look closely.

Some of this junk is really old.

 CB

[Joshua Harel]

When a model is finished no one can tell whether the parts were hand traced and than cut by hand or laser cut. What separates a craftsman from an average Joe is the attention to details and outstanding finish. In that respect no mass produced ARF will ever elicit the same ooooh and aaaaaaaahs that a model built by a craftsman will. You can extend Mr. Pieper argument to any extreme you want. Somebody who may hypothetically be digging Iron and Boxite ores, purifying, and, smelting them into Alumunum and Steel ingots and than proceeding to cast, mold, shape and machine their own engines would probably scoff at those of us who buy readily available engines. How far does one want to carry puritanism?
Just my 2c for whatever it is worth.
Joshua

[Jim Thomerson]

When the model is finished, the person who built it knows and appreciates what is inside.  If I only cared what my models looked like from the ouside, I would buy them from people who build better than I do.  Lots of folks do just that. 

[Clint Ormosen]

>>I reckon that just means like me....yer basicly maxed out and hafta buy wood and draw your parts on with carbon paper....then cut them, sand them, and in the case of ribs, size them.<<

I don't have any inclination to argue here. I've stated my thoughts on it many times. But suggesting that because I build planes from scratch (and I do design them, by the way), I'm somehow less than folks that build from a kit or just buy their plane is condescending and insulting.

Randy, I think he's insulting laser cut kit builders, like me. He appears to be of the opinion that he's more of a modeler because he builds from scratch exclusively.

 Got some news for 'ya, Rusty. Laser kits really are not a whole lot easier to build than a diecut or machine cut one. Parts still have to be fitted, shaped, and sanded. You cannot laser cut a finished top block or cowling. The one big advantage to them is ribs. Accurate ribs are time consuming to cut by hand and the laser is faster.
 Besides, if kits went away, I can scratch build too. Done it a bunch from the plan to the paint. So I'm not "dependant on Johnny-come-lately with his laser cutter", even though I enjoy them.

Hop down off your high horse, buddy! I don't recall seeing your name on the Walker Cup.
 

[Larry Cunningham]

Ewww! Horrible. Cutting parts with a laser beam instead of die-crunching them!

It's nice to build from scratch and all, but I refuse to ignore laser cutting when it can be applied to so much benefit for our models.

Primitive things are not always automatically better.

L.

"I'm an idealist. I don't know where I'm going, but I'm on my way." -Carl Sandburg

[proparc]

Rusty I got to tell you,laser cutting has been a godsend to the model aviation industry. As someone who remembers the days of "die crushed parts" lasers are it brother. In addition, for people like myself and say Randy Powell, it allows us to leverage all that cad work by extracting as much of the design integrity of the drawing as possible. For me,precision is a key component of craftsmanship, and well executed laser cut parts adds significantly to that component.

[Tim Wescott]

Rusty, you seem to ignore the fact that laser cutting is very accessible to us hoi polloi -- just draw up your design in a CAD program, and send the cut sheets to one of the many modelers who do job-shop laser cutting.

Laser cutting has some advantages over die-cutting (no crunched edges!!), but you still have to sand anything that comes to the edge of the model, and you still have to fit things together and make sure the wood is to your liking, etc.

Getting a stack of laser cut ribs is a far cry from getting a pair of pre-built wing halves in the mail.

[Larry Renger]

I design my own models, CAD draw them, detail out all the parts.  I then have them laser cut because I can not hold .0015" tolerances no matter how careful I am.  It is the state of the art for building an accurate model. Get over it!  Yes, I can cut and sand parts, I have all the tools (professional model builder for 20+ years, among other things), experience and patience. I CAN NOT MATCH the accuracy of a Laser.  The world moves on, go with the flow.

I still have to assemble the model, mate all the parts, fill all the dings, do the finish, equipment installation, final trim.  I am cognicent of EVERY step of the way.  The laser is a tool; you want to give up EXacto knives, Zona saws, sandpaper?  Be my guest.

[Douglas Ames]

<snip>
I don't think buying a laser cut kit for any price is being a real craftsman. 
 ... I thought there were more real modelers amongst this group that wasn't dependent on Johnny Comelately who has a laser cutter. 

Thank God, I am old school. 

Mention that quote to Al Rabe, his short kits are laser cut. Heck, you could probably build one in a weekend...huh?

If you were old school, you'd be using bamboo and banana oil.

[Joseph Patterson]

   Mr.Pieper, you certainly left yourself open for a "right cross" with this bunch, and the fact is, most of these guys replying to you are scratch builders of enormous talent. You certainly are welcome to express your opinion, but I believe that building from a kit no matter how it is crunched, stamped, or burned is according to the AMA rules concerning BOM OK. What I have a problem with is the so-called kits that aren't really kits. I will not go any further, because Ted Fancher, Brett Buck, Randy Powell, and others have expressed what I think about BOM far more articulately than I could ever express. Lighten up a little and we'll lighten up a little too!!
  Doug 

[wwwarbird]

  Mr.Pieper, you certainly left yourself open for a "right cross" with this bunch, and the fact is, most of these guys replying to you are scratch builders of enormous talent. You certainly are welcome to express your opinion, but I believe that building from a kit no matter how it is crunched, stamped, or burned is according to the AMA rules concerning BOM OK. What I have a problem with is the so-called kits that aren't really kits. I will not go any further, because Ted Fancher, Brett Buck, Randy Powell, and others have expressed what I think about BOM far more articulately than I could ever express. Lighten up a little and we'll lighten up a little too!!
  Doug  

 Joseph has it condensed, and puts it very well here. I think Rusty is just trying to remind people of what it means to be a BUILDER though. I have also typed my opinions on the BOM topic many times, and am waaay beyond sick of the "debate".
 
 Like Sparky and others have tried to remind us all of, and I am also guilty of forgetting at times in the heat of all this, is the fact that the whole issue really only concerns ONE CONTEST a year, the NATS.
 
 For me the whole thing just boils down to personal pride as a BUILDER of models of which most are my own original designs and/or extensive modifications of a design or kit. That pride as a builder is what sparks me to comment at times when this so called "debate" surfaces. That pride is what also p---es me off when people can't figure out something that is so simple. It's pathetic to me. With all these arguments and "debates" it proves beyond any doubt that 99% of people who have never completely designed and/or scratchbuilt a model of their own will simply never get it.
 
 Personally, I only consider myself an "ok" builder but not anywhere near capable of building the models that I would truly like to own and fly. What I enjoy about building is the learning experience throughout the build and trying to make each new model better than the last. I don't live or die by the latest project being that much better, but with every BUILD you learn something that can help with the next, and that is satisfying.

 It's fine if you don't want to design and/or build by "old school" definition, can't for whatever reason or excuse, or just don't want to learn how to construct your models by true and historical BOM description, just don't whine about it and choose another avenue then.
 
 The rules do not need changing.

[Sean McEntee]

                I may get into trouble by some folks here.  Not only because I simply wasn't ALIVE back then, but it goes against the fond memories that people have of days gone by.

     I think that the the heyday of modeling is NOW!  While we may not have the numbers, the amount of father-and-son participation, and support from external organizations, we have many more advantages in the here-and-now that we didn't have 50+ years ago.

     -The aforementioned advancements in kit production are a prime example.  Anyone who says otherwise probably hasnt built the re engineered RSM Ringmaster kit. It's construction and performance is far superior to the solid leading edge and die-crunching of the original kit.

    - Engines!  Just look at whats out there now: Tuned pipes, 4-strokes, electrics...so much more options available today.  They all have more power for their displacement then motors of the past.  Even the older engines (Fox's, Super Tigers) have new life in the hands of some of our skilled engine re-workers.

     -Most importantly...this forum and others like it!!  While the discussions on these forums can get a little....heated, there was no way that you could get access to the wealth of knowledge and the speed at which your questions could be answered as you can with online forums.


      PS:  Wayne is being modest... he builds some NICE and origional models!!!

[Tim Wescott]

Like Sparky and others have tried to remind us all of, and I am also guilty of forgetting at times in the heat of all this, is the fact that the whole issue really only concerns ONE CONTEST a year, the NATS.

Does that mean that rule 8.2 in the AMA CLPA regulations that details the applicability of the BOM rule to skill class precision aerobatics means something different from what it clearly states?

'cause around here folks don't get their appearance points unless they're the builder of the model.  If the Pacific Northwest is out of step with the rest of the world, it needs to get educated!

[John Stiles]

>>I reckon that just means like me....yer basicly maxed out and hafta buy wood and draw your parts on with carbon paper....then cut them, sand them, and in the case of ribs, size them.<<

I don't have any inclination to argue here. I've stated my thoughts on it many times. But suggesting that because I build planes from scratch (and I do design them, by the way), I'm somehow less than folks that build from a kit or just buy their plane is condescending and insulting.

To the contrary....you are somewhere between bamboo/banana oil and crunch-cut kits is all. I think the BOM is just a feeble attempt to hold the brake pedal on the hobby as we shoot through a 4-way intersection with only one blinking yellow light. Either way, if the hobby is commercialized to the point that you can't "build your own" anymore; it'll have essentially the same effect as people believe(mistakenly) that the BOM will have in turning away new blood....  

[john e. holliday]

I think it has already been stated several times now, but I will add my 1/2 cent opinion.   I started with the print wood kits, like Comet.  then got into control line with the die crunch kits which at the time were the greatest thing.   Manufacturers got better with it.   Now we have laser cutting and I am all for it.   I still build from plans and also a laser rib set that was sent to me.  Thanks Pat, I owe you a lot.   I have even done the ARF things.   I had a Nobler, Brodak kit that was still a die cut kit.  Lots of blocks to hollow and sand.   The finish was not to be seen in person.   The pictures looked okay, but I would get from 12 to 15 appearance points for a plane I put behind a bush at VSC the first year I had it there.   Since that one I have had better finished planes that got less appearance points.   Why, it was there were places that showed up in the building of the plane.  I love to build and hate finishing, it shows on my models most of the time.

Now I love the guys that design, draw and cut their own parts.   But,some of us don't have the time like we used to.  That is why I like the new component kits that are now coming out.   Do not like the so called kit that comes unassembled after it was built, finished, assembled, test flown and trimmed for flying, then disassembled, put in a custom made box and shipped out as a kit.

[Jim Thomerson]

I think the ultimate good experience is designing an airplane, building it, getting it to fly to suit and then flying the hound out of it.  But that is not for every one.  I think laser cutting is fine, particularly for wing ribs, which are my least favorite thing to make. 

[Tim Wescott]

My point is that if you have to wait on Johnny Laserbeam to cut out the kit you want, you're not a B.O.M. modeler.

I think you're over rating the value of laser cutting, and I think you're being rather disparaging to all the nice folks who use their laser cutting machines to break even or barely make money cutting out model parts when they could actually be making good money cutting out parts for non-hobby applications.

[Larry Cunningham]

Although I make it a point to include special features to take advantage of laser cutting, I design so I can still build my prototypes using only the classical methods and sticks. (Others could also do so from my plans.) Externally, the models should look identical, but the laser cut version will be much easier to build, with self-aligning, interlocking parts. And all that time I spent working with the CAD will have payback to anyone building the kit.

I was going to mention looking at what master designer and builder Al Rabe has done, embracing laser cutting technology, but someone beat me to it.

I particularly won't feel bad building a laser cut kit that I designed.  I invest a massive amount of my time with the CAD work (it's a huge part of design for me), trying to make everything fit well, get maximum utilization of wood, etc. including verifying it in 3D. 

L.

"This is very clever. They have created a system to cheat." -Charles Davenport

[rob biddle]

 Different horses for different courses I guess.
 
 I love scratch building from my own primitive designs or from a reproduced plan, allowing me to engineer the construction anyway I like. It's most satisfying.

 Big problem here is the nearest c/l friendly lhs is over 120 miles away, I can get balsa locally but the standard is generally average to poor. Of the 3-4 places that sell balsa around here (within 50 miles) you might call in 4-5 times before you find anything in stock that remotely resembles contest grade wood. Being time poor with 2 jobs and young kids, It's an expensive hassle these days.

 I really like the modern laser cut kits for their convenience, I can order a kit from the other side of the world and have over 90% of what's needed to build it on my doorstep within a week for less than 1/2 the cost of scratch building.

 Cheers, Rob...

 

[bob branch]

No that is "your desire" of what a new era modeler should be. It in fact is not. All my aircraft, RC and CL are laser cut. They are all arf's and arc's. Would not think of doing it any other way except if I have a unique idea of an assembly or design concept. The bom clan can have its rule. But true new era modelers enjoy assembling an arf or arc and I know this may come as a shock to many, enjoy looking at them and are proud of them as well! And as I go from one flying club to another guess what, members of those clubs feel the same way towards their models! Sorry, but you cannot force your opinion of what I should like on me. And by the looks of the numbers of what is being flown throughout the world, and all modelers have the choice, no one is forcing them at gunpoint.... the majority clearly prefers to fly arf's and would not even consider arc's. I started building models in the mid 50's. I can design, draw lines, build, and paint. I can fly too. But I have no desire to build scratch build airplanes any more. I avoid the paint part almost in any way that I can. I even learned to cover with film. But I will still on occasion paint. Point is I like thousands of others throughout the world enjoy model aviation. Sorry, I do not loose any enjoyment whatsoever from not scratch building any longer. I even really enjoy seeing the work of those who do still do it and enjoy it. But I think you need to stop degrading anyone who does not agree with your ever growing attempts to make the bom even more strict than it already is and to suggest that anyone who does not do it your way is less of a modeler. At the end of the day its about flying. You can say stunt is a building and flying competition, but in reality if the judging were done fairly (and I am not trying to say anything about how things are judged,) someone could still win the Walker cup with a profile with film covering if they totally blew off everyone else with how they flew. That is in theory of course, but if the judging is fair it should also be possible in reality. Its still about flying model airplanes.

I will never fly at the NATS. I have no desire. I have competed at that level and even won at that level in other sports and found it not rewarding enough "to me" (your mileage may differ) to make me want to do so again in the future. But I still enjoy the hobby and I have a right ... a right you cannot take away by all your bom prescriptions or you attempts to make yourself better than I am or anyone else who does not agree with you... to enjoy the hobby. If I wanted to do what you do, if it gave me the reward it obviously gives you, I would do it. When and where it does I will. But get off your high horses and let people enjoy the sport for cryin out loud. If you do not you will most certainly be the last to do so. One or two young fliers showing up will not sustain control line stunt. Start embracing new era fliers. It will not kill you and if you were not so insistant against them you might even find you would have more to fly with at your contests. You can say bom does not apply anywhere but at the NATS, but if you included appearance points in the flight scores then you are being prejudiced against people who fly an arf. Oh, you can fly, here in the contest but you will not be judged the same as anyone who even has an ugly hunk of junk model that they built themselves and have crashed and repaired 20 times. I can tell you that your new era pilot has no interest in being mistreated in that manner. Define it how you want. But do not try to sit there and dictate that others have to have your values to enjoy flying model airplanes and then tell them they can compete fairly with you.

 

bob branch

[Larry Cunningham]

Rusty,

Speaking of the horrors of high tech, let's return model helicopters to those thrilling days of yesterday too. Take away your gyro and we'll find out what kind of pilot you really are!

I don't think a model designer has to be a computer "wizard" at all. Most of my very favorite stunters are from the "classical" period, ships like the Cobra, Playboy, Roadrunner, Continental et al. It's nice to make these classic models into modern laser cut kits, with these features that make them interlocking and self aligning and easy to build. I don't see it is a detraction from the original model at all, CAD is just another tool.

I once used a carpenter's knife to repeatedly score 1/8" birch plywood to make doublers for the first Miss BJ model I built. It was very laborious of course and made my hands very sore; when Bill Melton saw it he laughed and immediately offered to let me use his jigsaw in the future. Shortly afterward I got my own (used) Dremel jigsaw, but now I have a lovely Craftsman variable speed deluxe jigsaw.. Tools change.

When Bill Melton gave me a moth-eaten plan from his and Jim Young's Roadrunner kit selling days, I hand scaled it and transcribed it to AutoCAD Release 10, including a very accurate Roadrunner wing airfoil, which Bill later told me he had drawn around a "tennis shoe" or something (with a wink and grin). Bill wasn't disturbed by a Roadrunner plan in CAD, he was delighted.

A few years ago I scaled and transcribed the gorgeous Playboy design by Norm Whittle to a modern laser cut kit for Bill Sawyer and provided it with a complete set of laser precut I-beamer (actually box-beamer) ribs, with what Bill coined our "Laser Locked" ribs, all nicely self aligning so that even a fool could build one. I'm certainly not ashamed of that, it was a great effort (I wrote an article in CLW describing my method for duplicating the airfoil..).

I'm likely to continue doing this sort of crap, even if it offends overly pure notions of model building.

L.

"And one more thing." -Steve Jobs

 

[Clint Ormosen]

However, I noticed there are many posts of laser manufacturers offering to sell their kits or asking if someone wants them to make certain kits and there are responses like, Wow, I have been wanting that kit for a long time, etc.  

My point is that if you have to wait on Johnny Laserbeam to cut out the kit you want, you're not a B.O.M. modeler.  Nobody likes being belittled, but it is the truth.  

Rusty

I'm not aware of anyone capable of building a laser kit NOT able to scratch build the entire model if it's one they really want. I certainly don't know anyone that simply wouldn't build something unless there was a laser kit available. However, when a laser kit is offered of something you're interested in, you usually jump on it because it gives you a good start. I don't know where you get this stupid idea that laser cut kits require no cutting, shaping, or sanding. As I said before, you can't laser cut a molded turtle deck or hollowed cowl. You'd be surprised at how much of your beloved balsa dust still gets created with a kit. I'm glad you think you're such an "old school" superior builder to us lowly guys that like laser parts. Keep thinking that.

[Clint Ormosen]

Hey Larry, that last pic of the green plane looks kinda familiar.

[Clint Ormosen]

Well, the numbers are in and people who see  it like I do are nearly none existent anymore.   I will give up my laborious, unnecessary work and get me a laser cut kit for my next build.  Maybe with the extra time I will have I can start watching the FOX news channel more and get myself higher number count here.

Thank you for setting me straight.

Is lazerworks a good vendor?   http://lazer-works.com/list.html
Thank you.

No no. You were just saying that you were much more of a "real" craftsman than the rest of us. So keep it up, don't bother lowering yourself to building with laser cut parts. Maintain your superiority.

[phil c]

........     -The aforementioned advancements in kit production are a prime example.  Anyone who says otherwise probably hasnt built the re engineered RSM Ringmaster kit. It's construction and performance is far superior to the solid leading edge and die-crunching of the original kit........

But really, a Ringmaster re-engineered to build lighter really isn't a Ringmaster.  The Ringmaster had a solid carved leading edge and trailing edge.  If you find some good, light wood you can build the original Ringmaster construction and get a very nice flying plane.  The main problem with the original kits was they didn't select light balsa because it won't hold up in a crash.

Have to agree though, it is much easier and nicer to design and build good flying planes using newer techniques, materials, and engines.

[Larry Cunningham]

Rusty, looks like I'll have to join the ranks of others who are "not a B.O.M.er" (guys like Al Rabe), who have to wait on Johnny Laserbeam to cut them a kit..

As for the truth hurting an all, the truth is that notions of BOM purity and (yearned for) exclusion of "commercial" interests from our beloved CLPA hobby will hasten its extinction. But we will have the satisfaction of scorning those who would simply engage in CLPA for enjoyment, without ever tasting the suffering associated with scratch building..

It does seem, however, that if your point of view was truly righteous, it could stand on its own. There simply wouldn't be any disagreement.

L.

"I believe that we must understand the economy of the situation." -Minoru Yamasaki

[Avaiojet]

Larry,

A question about CAD drawing.

My software will allow for me to create vector lines of anything. Sure, DXF file to the laser cutter.

Here's the thing. I don't have control of line thickness for printing plans. Plus, dashes, tiny triangles, all have to be made and dropped in.

How are these guys producing plans? Do their programs have features for all the odd and ends, like line thickness, dashes or those tiny triangles that outline a piece?

CB

[Tim Wescott]

Larry,

A question about CAD drawing.

My software will allow for me to create vector lines of anything. Sure, DXF file to the laser cutter.

Here's the thing. I don't have control of line thickness for printing plans. Plus, dashes, tiny triangles, all have to be made and dropped in.

How are these guys producing plans? Do their programs have features for all the odd and ends, like line thickness, dashes or those tiny triangles that outline a piece?

I'm not sure what you mean by "tiny triangles", but all the rest -- yes, a CAD program should have that.

[Larry Cunningham]

I can't speak for other programs, but I'm almost sure they would be the same. In AutoCAD there are drop down boxes to set line type, color, and thickness. And you can turn the display of line thickness on and off.

There are libraries of textures for various surfaces (concrete, sand, wood, etc.) and you can hatch a closed surface with them, or a solid color. As for the little triangles, it's very easy to draw ONE triangle like you want and make it into a block. Then you can simply insert it at specified rotations and scales as you need it. You can EXPLODE blocks to restore them to simple drawings.

As for laser cutting, I suspect most cutters can accept DXF files; I've submitted laser cutter DWG files in AutoCAD 2000/LT2000 format with some specific rules (the cutter will typically supply a sheet describing them). You typically don't have control of the width of the cutter beam, as I recall it is typically .006 wide, but some lasers can use a "low power" setting to write laser text (almost never done, I think). Also, most lasers won't cut balsa well above 3/8" or so thick, due to power settings.

Your laser cutter drawings need to be clean. That is, no duplicate lines over each other. I typically convert most arcs and lines into polylines; the laser will typically cut a continuous polyline in one stroke. Also, you need to leave little breaks, say 1/8" or .1" for thinner balsa and perhaps half that for thicker stuff, periodically. If you don't when your sheet is picked up, all the parts will fall out. The builder should use a sharp exacto blade to free the parts.

These are just some general comments. Best to become very familiar with your CAD program (say by editing a drawing of interest) first, get competent with it, then talk to your laser cutter for general guidelines.

As for plans, I suggest that you look into emitting a full sized plan as a PDF. Most copy places can print a PDF full sized, and this is a good way to transport your drawing electronically. I have an older Version Acrobat Writer program which installs as a virtual printer, and my CAD program just prints a file to it, generating an output PDF. There are several freebie programs around which accomplish the same thing, I've heard several people mention them.

That's pretty much the bulk of my own model airplane CAD general knowledge.. I'm sure more professional CADers here will chime in with better and more specific information.

With great power, CAD packages require great training and experience.

Good luck!

L.

"There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows about. It's a very serious disease and it interferes completely with the work. The trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them!" -Richard P. Feynman

[Wayne Collier]

It is nice though, to know that any of the 75+ sets of plans I have could be flying w/o the help of anyone.

So Rusty,  where do you harvest your balsa?  Do you have your own grove somewhere?  Assuming you use silk, how do you care for the worms?  Do you make your own dope as well?

The problem with BOM is that it is difficult to know at what point "I built it myself" kicks in. Thus there is a rule book that attempts to define that point. In school I had three semesters of machine drafting, one semester of architectural drafting, and a semester of solving analytic geometry problems by drafting methods.  We used pencils or lead holders, paper, triangles, t-squares, etc. I am convinced that AutoCad is no less art than pencil and paper.  The creativity still has to come from a person whether or not that person made their own pencil before drawing their plan.  Laser cut is just another way of cutting.  Without due skill and craftsmanship at the point of design and execution the laser cut parts would be crap.  By the way why are we discussing this electronically instead of walking to each other's caves?