Registration Required of CL Included

[Steve Helmick]

IF CL (and FF) is not covered by this FAA regulation, the AMA should have made that point clear. What I read (briefly) was that if a flying machine was controlled by a hand held object (such as a transmitter), that could be interpreted to include a control handle.

One day, we had a spectator hanging on the fence down at Auburn Muni. He watched several flights, with us carrying the models and handle to the circle to/from the pits for each flight. After several flights, he snapped to the notion that these were not R/C planes. He was appropriately disgusted and left immediately. I would expect no less brilliance from the FAA.    Steve

[Dave_Trible]

Mike I think you are right that we need to stand with our R/C  and FF brothers,  especially as our fate both within and outside of the AMA is tied direct to them.  They support most of the general hobby so we need them.  I have expressed my displeasure with where the leadership at AMA has taken us with regard to the drone issue and only elections- not bitching- will change that.  These chickens are now coming home to roost.  It's likely too late to reverse this as it's been indirectly drawn into the security arena.  At least the FAA has shown some interest and concern over the drone issue and is willing to take at least a baby step towards trying to get out ahead of it.  To me this is not a big deal and I'm not into conspiracy theories or vast government plots.  I'm not one to sit in the basement with a shotgun on my lap waiting for black helicopters  and doom.  Sure wish it didn't come to this but it is what it is.  I hope facts and reason prevail- not hype and hysteria.  Also that we keep in mind most of us are in the middle with small leanings right or left based on a few issues.  We aren't enemies despite those voices who try to make us so.  Ignore them- turn it off.

Dave

[frank williams]

I fly my electric at a soccer field about three quarters of a mile from the end of Ellington Field (formerly AFB),  I have already had a well meaning city park ranger stop my flying one day because she knew that model airplanes were not allowed in the park.

 I now carry a copy of the park rules that say that model aircraft may be flown, just “not within 200 feet of a park building”.  No big deal, but it stopped me that day, and I went home.

With this in the news, I’m sure the park rangers are just as confused as we are. 
What a great chance to just say, “no you can’t do that here, period”.

[JoeJust]

Here's a puzzlement for some of us.  I only fly CL. However, 5 of my 20 some odd planes uses 2.4 R/C to control the throttle on my Navy Carrier planes.  With that can I fly CL planes without 2.4 throttle, and not fly my CLK planes that use 2.4?
Joe Just

[beercamel]

I fly CL on my own land. Don't fly competitive, so the AMA and FAA can just kid my a..

Larry,

This is my exact point..  Let just say something occurred while you were flying your models , on YOUR property,  that got law enforcement involved. It does not really matter what the reason the police arrived... as soon as they see your 'unregistered weapons of mass destruction' .. you could end up fighting a $25,000.00 fine from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT..   and knowing what I know about the FAA, they will likely fine you $25,000.00 for each infraction.. so if you have three models.. 3 x $25,000.00

[Jim Carter]

L.O.L.!!  No big deal!!  No big deal!!  If we as modelers participate en' masse',  it'll flood their computerized sign-in system (like the National Healthcare registration), then it will become unmanageable, too costly and unprofitable as did the requirement to register for CB radios!  And within 3 - 5 years the ACLU will partner with the REPUBLICANS calling it "big government" and an intrusion on civil liberties, call for budget cuts, eliminate funding for the program and it too will end up as a wild and weird memory!  R.O.T.F.L.M.B.O.!!   

[Ken Burdick]

As much as I don't like it, I'll register so I can fly in a contest. Waiting to see the clarification on control line flying.
I might have to build a carrier ship with a transmitter now....

Ken

[RK]

  Just think of the Job Opportunities, ( I may come out of retirement) your $5.00 will provide!! And those fines will really add up fast!

There will be thousands of Inspectors driving gov. cars all around the country, inspecting everyone who is out there flying. Of course this will be a good paying job with all the Gov. benefits. Think about it, payed vacation, holidays, even the best Medical. You'll be working in the finest of Gov. buildings, your own office! With a Secretary to answer the phone. You'll be working with Senators & Congressmen!! I 'll bet they will issue a uniform complete with a Shiny New BADGE! May even carry a Gov. Issue Pistol, for the times it get a little rough. Free shooting lessons! All the Ammo you need! They will be asking questions about your friends & neighbors, "that guy "down the street, with a HOT LINE to call in violations, (a good desk job). You'll be there when they knock down doors to find hidden model drones & airplanes! Confiscate all the latest models! Track down those terrible "Scratch Builders".
Your wife will love your new paycheck, all the men in your neighborhood will envy you when you drive home in that shiny new car, all the women will love that new uniform! A Shiny badge gets get them every time!

If we cant beat them, Join them and be the first person on your block to apply!

RK Flyer

[Terrence Durrill]

You might notice it says the first 30 days will be FREE.  Rather that 1.5 million will sign up- more likely 1500.  Not much of a hair-on-fire thing......

Dave

Actually this thing should be ignored by control-line fliers.  They can't lock us all up.  This tyranical, ironfisted government is determined to control every aspect of our lives.  Who would have ever thought that the federal government would try to control our hobby in this way?  THere is no aspect of our lives that is out of bounds for this government to take control of.  If the people do not stand up and resist this power grab, we deserve the worst..........a tyranical, ironfisted governmental control over every thing that we do, everything that we have and everything that we think.   In fact, this issue is much bigger than model airplanes !  

[Stew Robinson]

So, I go online and register, for free. One registration number is good for all my planes. My handle is attached to any plane I happen to be flying.

I write my  registration number on each of my handles and I am compliant.

I usually get angry at my government for stuff like this, but, what the heck?

It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal

If someone comes from another country to compete, your give him a piece of tape with your number on it, he sticks it to his handle and life goes on

[john e. holliday]

Who is going to tell the new guy that has just bought a drone or RC plane that he now has to have it registered.  My local hobby shop doesn't even know where the flying fields are at let alone the rules.  I hate to think how many of these RC aircraft purchasers are even aware of what the AMA is other than the American Medical Association. 

[Scott Bauman]

Lets just hope this all goes away when the drones are not the popular toy for Christmas.  Honestly my displeasure with the US government is growing..  Even my little local govt job that started with good intentions and good solid work almost 16 years ago has turned into a paperwork is more important than the people nightmare. 

[RknRusty]

I learned something about this from my flying buddy today. He is an FAA accident investigator(Ret.), and says we fly in Class G airspace, which is free uncontrolled air. It's not regulated at all.

Scroll gown to Class G (Gulf)
http://www.vatusa.net/training/tiki-index.php?page=the_national_airspace_system

it says,"Class golf airspace is uncontrolled airspace. We as air traffic controllers are unable to control an aircraft while they are inside the confines of the Class Golf airspace. You may think of Class Golf airspace as "government free" or "go anywhere." The Class Golf airspace begins at surface level and extends up to the Echo above it (700AGL or 1200AGL). In some locations the Class Golf airspace extends as high as 14,500 ft MSL."
There is an illustration to accompany the explanation.


It looks to me like control line can not reach regulated airspace. What are y'alls opinions on that?
Rusty

[CircuitFlyer]

Phoowee, the pressure relief valve is working overtime here. 

I hope all of you have actually read the complete FAA Interm Final Rule for yourselves.  It is just that, interm, not final yet.  You have 30 days to submit comments to the FAA before it is declared final.  From pages 1 & 2:

The Department will consider all comments received before the closing date and make any necessary amendments as appropriate.
DATES: This rule is effective December 21, 2015. Comments must be received on or before
[INSERT DATE 30 DAYS AFTER DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER].

From page 20:

In addition, consistent with the Regulatory Policies and Procedures of the Department of Transportation (DOT) (44 FR 11034; Feb. 26, 1979), which provide that to the maximum extent
possible, operating administrations for the DOT should provide an opportunity for public comment on regulations issued without prior notice, the Department requests comment on this
IFR. The Department encourages persons to participate in this rulemaking by submitting comments containing relevant information, data, or views. The Department will consider
comments received on or before the closing date for comments. The Department will consider late filed comments to the extent practicable. This IFR may be amended based on comments
received.

Page 46:

The NextGen Air Transportation Program at North Carolina State University and one individual commenter recommended FAA specifically state that tethered powered small UAS are
considered small UAS under proposed part 107. In response to these comments, the FAA notes that the definition of small UAS in this rule includes tethered powered small UAS.

Page 58:

aircraft that are control-line operated (i.e., tethered flight),

My guess is control line models are definitely included in this rule.  Why ask the AMA?  They didn't write the rule.  Submitt your comments to the FAA and see if you can convince them otherwise.  Our aircraft are not tethered to a fixed point, they are tethered directly to the human operator.  The tether in this case is for control purposes only.  Good Luck.

Paul

[Dave Rolley]

After some more research...

Q. What about tethered drones?
A. Both tethered and untethered UAS must be registered.

A tethered UAS was an approach where RC models, most often some kind of multi rotor vehicle, were tethered to the ground to get around the non-commercial usage limitations associated with RC model aircraft.  The loophole in the Federal Aviation Regulations that allowed for this approach was explicitly removed in 2014.  Tethered drones were never about control line models.

Ok here is the core problem. Was is a Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS)?

In the FAA's "Integration of Civil Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) in the National Airspace System (NAS) Roadmap" published in 2013, they defined a UAS on page 8 as consisting of three elements:

• Unmanned Aircraft;
• Control Station;
• And Data Link

Plus they provided an illustration to further clarify their definition.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/legislative_programs/uas_roadmap/media/UAS_Roadmap_2013.pdf

Control line models use direct physical connection between the operator/pilot and the model to control the flight path of the model not a data link. If there is a data link used, such as a 2.4 ghz RC unit, to control the throttle or other function it does not control the flight path of the model.

Control line models do not fit the FAA's definition of a UAS.

Control line models do not need to be registered.

Dave

[Steve Helmick]

We should have at least 6 months to get this registration business done, assuming that it'll be the same crackerjack company building the website as did the one for the last registration fiasco.         Steve

Edit: What about those who don't have a computer (don't want a computer)? Can we register by USPS? What if we miss the end of the free registration period...will they accept PayPal?  

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

Might as well make it my first post.  I'm satisfied with reading that the CL side of my hobby is outside this FAA fatwa as stated on the 2nd page and the AMA letter, "All aircraft that are flown using a ground control system, such as a transmitter, are required to participate. "
That being said I still need to register as the majority of my flying is done RC.  It would be nice if we could use the same number but being treated like a child molester and forced to register myself does grate me.  Especially as we all know this is punishing everyone save the ones causing the problems.

What might be fun is to print out the FAA requirement and tape them on as many boxes of the larger quads that are everywhere, the auto parts store, hardware store, my grocery store has them.  Don't know if any of them is up to half a pound. 

To any forum admin that is reading this, I think I have a duplicate registration here.  My full name on the registration page came back as used but I didn't have a clue for the password and didn't have a question to answer and I've moved and lost my old email address AND though I registered and reset it at least twice, because I haven't done much but play grandpa for 7 years I just haven't posted or read much, well, my apologies for making whomever work.

I see Shug is here.  I met him on Hammockforums.  Whoooo Buddy!!!

Grousing about this new rule needs to come to an end.  Seeing if the AMA or anyone is going to get an injunction against this over-reach which had been spelled out by congress is probably next.  If there is a gofundme account in support of an injunction I'd be interested in contribution.  Sam Graves is my Representative in Congress and a modeler BUT he's also a politician and as such spends his time trying to stay elected.  I doubt model planes has anything to do with his radar, but I suppose sending him a message couldn't hurt.

And you cons and libs, don't yell at each other here.  We're just about all we got.

[Serge_Krauss]

I really don't think that the FAA will include CL planes, after they get the various parts of their definitions more consistent. Having read everything on this forum and what was sent to me, I do not believe that the FAA means to call CL aircraft "drones" even now. When we fly, we're probably mechanically connected to our control surfaces closer that many commercial pilots anyway. I doubt though that FAA will back down on RC, since someone can actually use RC models to inflict pretty heavy damage. I haven't seen that AMA is dragging its feet. I'd be interested in the specifics of that - or is it just expectations based on earlier issues?

[Steve Fitton]

Steve, why did the BATF get involved with the model rocket issue?  Was it due to the rocket motors being considered an explosive?

In a word, yes.  The court case was over the arbitrary and capricious (to use the legalese in the suit) action of the ATF to change the classification of ammonium perchlorate from "flammable solid" to explosive.  This sudden change was aimed at stopping hobby use of ammonium perchlorate based solid propellant and largely came about because of the monumental stupidity of some people in the hobby rocket industry who thought that if they couldn't beat their competition on the free market, they would beat them by loosing the Feds (DOT and ATF) on them.  This backfired on a massive scale.

  The crux of the lawsuit was that after the ATF reclassification, Morton Thiokol and many other industrial users understandably screamed that AP being classified as an explosive would kill their businesses; after all, they bought AP by the train load for things like the Shuttle SRBs, etc.  My understanding was that the BATF then suspended the classification change for industrial users, but kept it in place for hobby use of AP.  The two rocketry groups, NAR and Tripoli, joined in a lawsuit to seek relief from the unfair classification change.  What followed were years of outrageous behavior from the ATF, including instructing the Air Force Arnold Engineering Center to rig/falsify tests, as well as stalling proceedings by massive document dumps (12-20,000 pages) right before court dates that resulted in months of postponements every time.  It went on so long the lead attorney for rocketry died of old age and it took almost another year to get a new legal team up to speed.
  Rocketry finally won because the BATF pissed off the federal judge presiding over the case with all the document dumps.  Once the ATF could not delay the proceedings any longer the case was resolved pretty swiftly in rocketry's favor.
  I fly stunt because I didn't feel like waiting forever for legal relief from not being able to fly high power rocketry.  I had flown a ringmaster as a kid and in my late 20s decided to build planes and fly again.  On the plus side, I remembered you can fly a stunt plane *a lot* more than a J powered model rocket.
  All that said, if the FAA ruling is indeed in contravention of law, I suspect Congress can sort it out MUCH faster than the courts.  In court, FAA will stall just because it seems to be SOP for the Federal govt. (as an aside, any lawyers here? Do they teach stalling as a standard practice in law school?)

[Fredvon4]

CL included or not

I think the DOT/FAA had their lawyers give them enough wiggle room to survive a challenge based on the section 336 of Public Law 112-95 where Congress told the FAA they could not promulgate new rules on the Model Airplane Hobbyists.

Please open the entire PDF and read page 152 through 155

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf

1. Comments addressing Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of
2012

The FAA response is quoted here:

"The FAA disagrees with the comments asserting that the registration of model aircraft is prohibited by section 336 of Public Law 112-95. While section 336 bars the FAA from promulgating new rules or regulations that apply only to model aircraft, the prohibition against future rulemaking is not a complete bar on rulemaking and does not exempt model aircraft from complying with existing statutory and regulatory requirements. As previously addressed, Public Law 112-95 identifies model aircraft as aircraft and as such, the existing statutory aircraft registration requirements implemented by part 47 apply.

This action simply provides a burden-relieving alternative that sUAS owners may use for aircraft registration. Model aircraft operated under section 336 as well as other small unmanned aircraft are not required to use the provisions of part 48. Owners of such aircraft have the option to comply with the existing requirements in part 47 that govern aircraft registration or may opt to use the new streamlined, web-based system in part 48"


Back in October,  during the original comment period for the Notice of proposed Rule Making, the FAA asserted that they had always been charged with regulating all Aircraft and that traditionally they had used their discretion to ignore model aircraft. The DOT/FAA stated that they had decided to no longer use that discretion. They believe they are not "promulgating new rules" on the hobby community

My take is most courts (generally liberal district courts) would uphold this rule and the Supreme Court may never accept it to review or decide

The only way we can change any of this is to get our sitting congress to notice their intent was ignored and they need to write new law to confirm their intent.... 

[Jim Svitko]

(as an aside, any lawyers here? Do they teach stalling as a standard practice in law school?)

Speaking of lawyers:  I am sure there are some very dedicated members of the law profession.  Of course, we have the ambulance chasers as well.

Since we could all use a laugh once in a while, maybe I can contribute some comic relief.  During the years I have been studying Spanish I have a new appreciation for the culture and also have come to realize that we are all about the same, all over the world.  That is, we all like and dislike pretty much the same things.

One of my teachers was from Mexico City.  The law profession in Mexico must be taking notes about what is happening here regarding the law profession.  This teacher told me that in Mexico lawyers are sometimes called "plátano" (banana).  I asked her why she said because you can't find a straight one.

To help me learn Spanish I found a web site with jokes in Spanish, from all over the Spanish speaking world.  It is here I found one of my favorite lawyer jokes, translated from Spanish:

A caretaker in a cemetery was cutting the grass when he came across a tombstone that read:  'Here lies a lawyer, an honest man, an honorable man.'  The caretaker, upon seeing this tombstone, fell to his knees, made the sign of the cross, and said--"Holy Virgin Mary, they buried three men in the same grave!"

[Matt Colan]

I just signed this petition regarding the regulation the FAA is trying to pull. I'll leave the link here for anyone who wishes to sign it:

https://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-adminitration-stop-the-faa-act-requiring-drone-model-aircraft-pilot-registration?recruiter=449680930&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-reason_msg

[Brett Buck]

 Rocketry finally won because the BATF pissed off the federal judge presiding over the case with all the document dumps.  Once the ATF could not delay the proceedings any longer the case was resolved pretty swiftly in rocketry's favor.
  I fly stunt because I didn't feel like waiting forever for legal relief from not being able to fly high power rocketry.  I had flown a ringmaster as a kid and in my late 20s decided to build planes and fly again.  On the plus side, I remembered you can fly a stunt plane *a lot* more than a J powered model rocket.
  All that said, if the FAA ruling is indeed in contravention of law, I suspect Congress can sort it out MUCH faster than the courts.  In court, FAA will stall just because it seems to be SOP for the Federal govt. (as an aside, any lawyers here? Do they teach stalling as a standard practice in law school?)

    The BATF case seems to be a good example. But I would not expect swift congressional action from a body that hasn't passed a budget for 7-8 straight years.  And it is far from clear that the AMA even wants to fight this.

    Nothing will be resolved on this topic for many years, if ever.

     Brett

[Fredvon4]

I just mailed hand written letters to both my republican Senators of Texas, John Cornyn (an original Yea vote on the 112th congress public Law 112-95) and Senator Ted Cruz a presidential primary contender

Senator Kay Baily Hutchison was the other Texas Yea vote for the 112-95 public law that in section 336 restricted the FAA from promulgating rules on the Hobbyist model airplane community

what I sent

To:
The Honorable Mr. John Cornyn
United States Senate
Washington D.C 20510

From:
Frederick C von Gortler IV
US Army Retied First Sergeant
305 CR 4330
Lampasas Texas 76550

                                                                                                                                                      December 16 2015

Subject:  DOT/FAA Interim Rule making adversely impacting US citizens

Honorable Mr. Cornyn

Sir the DOT/FAA has created an Interim rule to register model aircraft operators that I believe does not comply with the INTENT of the 112Th Congress.

My representatives at the time, yourself,  and the Honorable Mrs. Hutchison, voted to preserve the hobby of Model aviation and restrict the FAA from creating (new) rules applying to model aircraft for hobby use.

Below is an excerpt of that public law.

I would like your staff to look into this and brief you.

 This new rule imposes a level of more government and control that you seem to generally object to, as I do.   I fail to see how expending several hundred million dollars registering EVERY Hobbyist Model Airplane Operator can attain the stated objective of the DOT/FAA.

In my opinion this is another example of punishing law abiding citizens with fees (taxes) and threats of fines and imprisonment with little or no effectiveness to the stated goal of making the National Air-Space (NAS) safer.

I contend that my legal, safe use of my kit or scratch built hobby model airplanes poses ZERO risk to any users of the NAS. 

 While I agree that $5.00 to be registered for 3 years is of little or no real consequence, I object to the Federal government threatening me with fines and imprisonment for non-compliance as I seek to constitutionally pursue my happiness (building and flying small model airplanes).

V/R
Your voting constituent
Frederick C von Gortler IV
US Army Retired First Sergeant

[EJN]

And it is far from clear that the AMA even wants to fight this.

I was a NAR member with high-power certification when the BATFE crap hit the fan.

Both NAR & TRA are much smaller organizations than the AMA, yet they were able to
mount a court challenge, stuck with it for the long haul, and ultimately won.

If the AMA with its greater membership & resources sits back and does not fight this,
they are utterly useless.

[Terry Caron]

I must agree in principle (and. in large measure, in detail) with Brett's remarks on constitutional and legal redress.
I hope that to be a last resort, and that a bombardment of Congress with emails, letters and phone calls might bring relief.
As has been noted, re-election is top priority for elected officials.
Fred's letter is an outstanding example of what can be done.

I agree that there is a 'slippery slope" inherent here:
For those who say "$5 for all my planes? - no big deal", be aware that in the future it's a simple matter of regulatory fiat to make it any amount for each of our models.

I wholeheartedly agree that, as modellers, "we hang together or we hang separately".
Divisions on issues not relevant are best set aside.

Unfortunately, while any level of logic must conclude that our c/l planes are assuredly not "unmanned" (ignoring the occasional combat plane  ), is there a constitutional or statutory requirement that logic, or even common sense, be exhibited in the promulgation of law or regulation?

I do find hope in the examples of CB radio and model rocketry, though the resolution was long in coming

On a lighter note, considering the massive bureaucratic infrastructure required to implement, oversee and enforce the proposal, could this possibly be merely an attempt to decrease unemployment and improve the economy by moving a bunch of money around?    

Terry

[Mike Griffin]

I just mailed hand written letters to both my republican Senators of Texas, John Cornyn (an original Yea vote on the 112th congress public Law 112-95) and Senator Ted Cruz a presidential primary contender

Senator Kay Baily Hutchison was the other Texas Yea vote for the 112-95 public law that in section 336 restricted the FAA from promulgating rules on the Hobbyist model airplane community

what I sent

To:
The Honorable Mr. John Cornyn
United States Senate
Washington D.C 20510

From:
Frederick C von Gortler IV
US Army Retied First Sergeant
305 CR 4330
Lampasas Texas 76550

                                                                                                                                                      December 16 2015

Subject:  DOT/FAA Interim Rule making adversely impacting US citizens

Honorable Mr. Cornyn

Sir the DOT/FAA has created an Interim rule to register model aircraft operators that I believe does not comply with the INTENT of the 112Th Congress.

My representatives at the time, yourself,  and the Honorable Mrs. Hutchison, voted to preserve the hobby of Model aviation and restrict the FAA from creating (new) rules applying to model aircraft for hobby use.

Below is an excerpt of that public law.

I would like your staff to look into this and brief you.

 This new rule imposes a level of more government and control that you seem to generally object to, as I do.   I fail to see how expending several hundred million dollars registering EVERY Hobbyist Model Airplane Operator can attain the stated objective of the DOT/FAA.

In my opinion this is another example of punishing law abiding citizens with fees (taxes) and threats of fines and imprisonment with little or no effectiveness to the stated goal of making the National Air-Space (NAS) safer.

I contend that my legal, safe use of my kit or scratch built hobby model airplanes poses ZERO risk to any users of the NAS. 

 While I agree that $5.00 to be registered for 3 years is of little or no real consequence, I object to the Federal government threatening me with fines and imprisonment for non-compliance as I seek to constitutionally pursue my happiness (building and flying small model airplanes).

V/R
Your voting constituent
Frederick C von Gortler IV
US Army Retired First Sergeant

Very well written Fred.  I hope everyone on here will follow suit and not lay down on this.

Mike

[JordanSegal]

I found this in one of the wonderful government documents under definitions;
1.Unmanned Aircraft
“An aircraft operated without the possibility of direct human intervention from within or on.”

Dam it. I’ve 2 steel cables in my hand directly connected to my aircraft.  If that isn’t “direct human intervention”, I don’t know what is.

[BillP]

I learned something about this from my flying buddy today. He is an FAA accident investigator(Ret.), and says we fly in Class G airspace, which is free uncontrolled air. It's not regulated at all.

Scroll gown to Class G (Gulf)
http://www.vatusa.net/training/tiki-index.php?page=the_national_airspace_system

it says,"Class golf airspace is uncontrolled airspace. We as air traffic controllers are unable to control an aircraft while they are inside the confines of the Class Golf airspace. You may think of Class Golf airspace as "government free" or "go anywhere." The Class Golf airspace begins at surface level and extends up to the Echo above it (700AGL or 1200AGL). In some locations the Class Golf airspace extends as high as 14,500 ft MSL."
There is an illustration to accompany the explanation.


It looks to me like control line can not reach regulated airspace. What are y'alls opinions on that?
Rusty

My thoughts...don't confuse "controlled airspace" with "regulated airspace". Class G is not really "government free" and the AOPA was probably intending the reader to interpret it as compared to controlled airspace. FAA regulates what a plane (equipment, registration, pilot license, etc) does in Class G but doesn't control flight paths though it.  Buzz a court house at 200' AGL in class G and see how fast the FAA is revoking your pilot's license.  Its hard to believe they would go after CL planes but they are the govt and they don't talk with smiles on their faces. There are too many ways to interpret the new law at this time...the posting I saw of AMA's opinion that CL is not included isn't backed up with a credible FAA written exclusion. Maybe I missed that part.

[peabody]

Here is what the AMA responded to my inquiry :

Rich,

Yes, you will need to register. All pilots flying aircraft that are flown using a ground-control system, such as a transmitter or control line, are required to register. This includes pilots who fly fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters, not just multirotors or drones. Any pilot flying models weighing between .55 pounds (or 250 grams) and 55 pounds is required to register.

You will get one registration number once you register with your name, address, and email address. This number should be applied to all aircraft. This is a win for the AMA. Originally the FAA wanted all aircraft registered. The AMA said this is unrealistic because members have many aircraft. The FAA agreed to register only the pilot.

The FAA registration process begins on Monday, December 21, 2015. Registration will be online only. The FAA requires every current pilot to register within 60 days. There is a $5 registration fee; however, if you register within 30 days ending, Wednesday, January 20, the fee is waived. 

Thank you for inquiring and for flying safely and responsibly.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Best,

[CircuitFlyer]

There is one other piece of information they want from you - your credit card number.  Big Brother is watching.

[beercamel]

Here is what the AMA responded to my inquiry :

Rich,

Yes, you will need to register. All pilots flying aircraft that are flown using a ground-control system, such as a transmitter or control line, are required to register. This includes pilots who fly fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters, not just multirotors or drones. Any pilot flying models weighing between .55 pounds (or 250 grams) and 55 pounds is required to register.

You will get one registration number once you register with your name, address, and email address. This number should be applied to all aircraft. This is a win for the AMA. Originally the FAA wanted all aircraft registered. The AMA said this is unrealistic because members have many aircraft. The FAA agreed to register only the pilot.

The FAA registration process begins on Monday, December 21, 2015. Registration will be online only. The FAA requires every current pilot to register within 60 days. There is a $5 registration fee; however, if you register within 30 days ending, Wednesday, January 20, the fee is waived. 

Thank you for inquiring and for flying safely and responsibly.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Best,

I guess I am through flying model airplanes.....  50 years plus of building and flying models...  Thanks to our overlords in the federal government..

This would almost be laughable if it wasn't so sad...

I guess I can sell everything on ebay..

[Mike Keville]

Kind of makes me sorry I re-upped for two years (just to watch them implode).  Final time, to be sure.

[Mike Griffin]

Kind of makes me sorry I re-upped for two years (just to watch them implode).  Final time, to be sure.

I'm glad I didn't Mike.

Mike

[wwwarbird]

 So, here's our S--T sandwich folks, a two-hundred and eleven page document created to supposedly regulate model aviation. Not one word of which will pertain even 1/1000th of a percent to anyone who may intend harm or damage with their flying machine. What this new document will do is give them a never ending supply of loopholes to eventually screw us all into the ground. As I sit here I can't even begin to come to terms with just how completely ridiculous this result is, there is no sense to it whatsoever. Our Government and our AMA at their finest, a complete nightmare.

[beercamel]

This new document will give the them a never ending supply of loopholes to eventually screw us all into the ground. As I sit here I can't even begin to come to terms with just how completely ridiculous this result is, there is no sense to it whatsoever. Our Government and our AMA at their finest, a complete nightmare.

An unfortunately...  its just beginning..  It WILL get worse..

An NO I am NOT a pessimist.. I consider myself a realist..  after 15 years in the US Military, and 27 years as a professional airline pilot, dealing closely with the FAA, I know how incompetent,  obstructionist, power hungry, and bureaucratic they can be..

The system is broken ..

[Brett Buck]

Kind of makes me sorry I re-upped for two years (just to watch them implode).  Final time, to be sure.

  You need to stick around so you can participate in the upcoming recall vote for Bob Brown, at least.

     Brett

[Target]

Maybe MR Brown should be impeached?

[RC Storick]

With a PM message exchange I have been having I got to thinking this might be OK after all. The feds trump the AMA so we register for $5.00 and let the AMA membership drop. Homeowners insurance pays before AMA so what is the need to have them aside from contests.

They did not think this through at all and neither did the FAA who is going to read the number affixed to the aircraft that is 1/2 tall passing by at 300 MPH near miss? BS and totally stupid. It's a money grab so AMAZON can use them for delivery. Registration will not stop anything. Every modeler needs to write a letter to the FAA and the US Senate all at once.

Mr Brown:
 I am writing this letter to ask a question. If the FAA and the US government rules are far greater than the AMA and if we register with the federal government for the $5.00 fee to remain legal what is the reason to keep my $75.00 per year AMA membership? If you say insurance please don't as I know that each persons home owners insurance is the first to be tasked. So that leaves a magazine that is devoted to multi rotor ARFs of which I don't fly and have no plan to fly. So the question I ask is what will the AMA's benefit be?

Kind of makes me sorry I re-upped for two years (just to watch them implode).  Final time, to be sure.

I jumped the gun too and fell the 2 year registration and if you think about it they knew before hand. If you like your doctor ,you can keep your doctor?

[Scott Bauman]

Do kites have to register?  I have kitesurfing kites tbat weigh more tban 9 ounces and can fly longer than a cl model.  Plus they fly higher than cl models.  Im quite upset with the us govt.
A friend of mi e said he has a pair of "jack boots" for world war 2 reenactments.  He said I can borrow them and crush any model without the registration number on it.

[peabody]

Spark....try telling a flying site owner that "homeowner's" insurance will cover anything....

Not going to happen

Mostly, it the guys and gals flying people like cattle that have caused this situation, fueled by the media and misunderstanding the law.

If we hope to fly in organized events, FAA registration will be required, and so will, I wager, AMA membership.

[Mike Keville]

  You need to stick around so you can participate in the upcoming recall vote for Bob Brown, at least.

     Brett

======================================================

That's not a bad idea.  Let's git-er-done!!!

[peabody]

The AMA just emailed me that Federal Registration must be completed by 20 February, 2016 to be in compliance with the law.

[BillP]

Do kites have to register?  I have kitesurfing kites tbat weigh more tban 9 ounces and can fly longer than a cl model.  Plus they fly higher than cl models.  Im quite upset with the us govt.
A friend of mi e said he has a pair of "jack boots" for world war 2 reenactments.  He said I can borrow them and crush any model without the registration number on it.

I'm wondering the same thing. We have a lot of kite surfers around here...and an air force base located directly on the water that they sail past.  Where will it end?  Elementary school kid flying kites, emergency flare guns for boats...a registration number tattooed on our body?  But lets make sure we don't hurt the feelings of possible terrorists who get to fast track their visa into the USA. The whole thing is beyond stupid. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when considering who the FAA reports to and gets directions from. The only thing the AMA is concerned about is following the money. For now its drones, which will eventually be outlawed (under national security) because of the stupid operators.  I've vented and feel better now!

[John Gluth]

Do we need to consider the tradition and benefit of AMA sanctioned clubs and AMA club sanctioned flying sites? Then, AMA’s intervention to secure flying sites?

What would our hobby be without NATS at Muncie and AMA Museum?

Multirotor technology can be used for recreation, practical application, or dark activity. FAA is the bureaucracy here. AMA has done their best to protect our recreation all considered.

[Fredvon4]

Random thoughts on the subject of safety in the NAS; born from concerns about reported "DRONE" near misses or interference with emergency operations where aircraft were grounded from "DRONE" operations, or neighbors shooting down a drone and the obvious problem discharging a fire arm in a neighbor hood might be.

And I do agree that these reports are serious and should be a concern

Seems to me most of the incidents were caused by IGNORANT citizens. Perhaps a small amount by some "me first" butt head who knows better, but decided his desire came first. Like the guy at Joe Nall flying over folks so he can get YOU TUBE video

One thought....  Where are any DOT / FAA Public Service Announcements (PSA) ?  Here in Texas I have not heard one radio or TV station do a decent news story/report on the problem and how theses "DRONES" should be used safely. Just the sensational crap we have all seen.

And NO PSA at all that I have read, heard, or seen.

Contrast:
Apparently there are not enough citizens and non citizens on welfare, food stamps, or have a smart phone. In the major markets of Texas; Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio the PSA for these programs are run fairly frequently on English and Spanish speaking radio stations

Funny, as I type this, the radio station I listen to has a get a free DRONE contest running. Also there are/have been many ads for hobby shops claiming to have the best selection, and their DRONES are better than the "Toys" at WalMart .... not one of these ads mentions the need to register to use the RTF TOY with FPV and a camera.

Other thought...I am a FCC Licensed Amateur Radio Operator and always knew that for some RC car/aircraft transmitter frequencies (54Mhz) a FCC License was required.  I just learned yesterday that most of the First Person View (FPV) video links transmit higher RF levels that are above Part 15 limits and the operator must have a FCC Technician license

So a multi rotor operator with FPV must now be registered or licensed with 2 federal agencies....

For some reason I bet if I log on to the ARRL web site and search, I won't find any reports of DRONE FPV system that are causing any interference or enforcement actions....perhaps I am wrong and I just don't know about it yet


Just random thoughts, move along, nothing earth shattering here


The butt head in me plans to mess with (in a very small way) the FAA free sign up registration period by registering all my family members over 13 years old

This is the federal government that spent three years trying to get the Obama Care web site coded before they went live and it crashed every 5 minuets for months

The FAA has only had 6 months to get ready for this (I seriously think they already planned to do this registration long before they went through the notice and comment dance)

I am planning to help crash it in every legal way I can.... hoping the national media has a few stories about yet again another example of government incompetence

[RC Storick]

It just totally Tee's Me off that they raised the AMA due's and gave a 2 year inducement to get you to pay up front all along knowing (you can't tell me different) this was in the works and how many people would not renew. What are we really paying for? Free airfare for the staff,wages,, a magazine and place some of use use once a year? 90% of the membership has never been there. I'm afraid the AMA just sank it's own ship. End 

[beercamel]

The butt head in me plans to mess with (in a very small way) the FAA free sign up registration period by registering all my family members over 13 years old

Maybe we should also register our pets!  I have a 13 year old Weimaraner!..

[john e. holliday]

Glad I only signed up for one year.  Vacating my post on the contest board as soon as Keith gets relocated.

[Chad Hill]

I've flown real aircraft for nearly 40 years (civilian, military and airlines) and, having thus been exposed to the FAA, here is my $.02 on the subject. It's a warning, really.

It is estimated that one million drones will be sold in the USA this year alone. Some of these will be purchased by idiots, by reckless individuals, and by others who have sinister motives (such as those who shoot lasers at airline cockpits, which, by the way, I have personally experienced). With these numbers it is almost inevitable that there will be a serious incident or accident involving a drone and a real aircraft. There have already been many close calls.

This registration process is just baby step 1 for the FAA. When such a serious incident or accident occurs in the future, the wrath of the FAA will descend upon ALL of the registered individuals. The next step is certification and licensing. Certification and licensing means training, examinations, evaluations, and inspections. More and more regulations will follow. I am not joking. This is already happening to commercial drone operators, and the FAA will come to see us in the same light.

I hope I'm wrong, but we may come to think of the pre-drone era as the good-old-days of model aviation.