Registration not required

[johnt4051]

Just to make sure it doesn't get missed in the bottom of the long thread on drone registration, I thought I would repost this in a new thread.  Boldface is mine.  So, I guess we can all calm down.   

This message went out from AMA today:

Well, just thought I should jump back on here and give everyone some updated info.
 
The AMA Executive Council meet last night and gave us some direction.  Note that there have been some changes on what AMA’s position is and how it effects our members.
 
1.       The AMA has been assured by FAA that registration only applies to RC aircraft.  Traditional CL aircraft are exempt.  However, if you use RC in any of your CL aircraft (some do) then you would have to register.
2.       AMA is now recommending that AMA members hold off on registration while AMA pursues legal action.  AMA will be putting out another e-mail concerning this later today or tomorrow with more details on how this position came about.
 
So, the bottom line here is that this situation is fluid and there are almost daily changes.  Please, PLEASE make sure you are getting the latest e-mails from AMA and check the website DAILY to make sure you have all the current info.
 
 
 
Tony Stillman
Flying Site Assistance Coordinator/Competitions-Technical Director
Academy of Model Aeronautics
www.modelaircraft.org
800-435-9262 Ext. 230

[RC Storick]

Dear AMA Members,

Yesterday, the AMA Executive Council unanimously approved an action plan to relieve and further protect our members from unnecessary and burdensome regulations. This plan addresses the recently announced interim rule requiring federal registration of all model aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds.

AMA has long used a similar registration system with our members, which we pointed out during the task force deliberations and in private conversations with the FAA. As you are aware, AMA's safety program instructs all members to place his or her AMA number or name and address on or within their model aircraft, effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule. AMA has also argued that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress' intent in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, otherwise known as the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft."

The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue. We believe that resolution to the unnecessary federal registration rule for our members rests with AMA's petition before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. This petition, filed in August 2014, asks the court to review the FAA's interpretation of the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft." The central issue is whether the FAA has the authority to expand the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft; thus, allowing the agency to establish new standards and operating criteria to which model aircraft operators have never been subject to in the past.

In promulgating its interim rule for registration earlier this week, the FAA repeatedly stated that model aircraft are aircraft, despite the fact that litigation is pending on this very question. The Council believes the FAA's reliance on its interpretation of Section 336 for legal authority to compel our members to register warrants the Court's immediate attention to AMA's petition. 

While we continue to believe that registration makes sense at some threshold and for flyers operating outside of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes, we also strongly believe our members are not the problem and should not have to bear the burden of additional regulations.  Safety has been the cornerstone of our organization for 80 years and AMA's members strive to be a part of the solution.

As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA's legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft.

Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.

In the near future, we will also be asking our members to make their voices heard by submitting comments to the FAA's interim rule on registration. We will follow-up soon with more detailed information on how to do this.

Thank you for your continued support of AMA. We will provide you with more updates as they become available.

Kind regards,



The AMA Executive Council

[Tim Wescott]

I've written my congresscritters letting them know where I stand.  Dunno how much good it'll do -- but I can try.  I made sure to put in a comment about "contrary to the intent of congress" -- I figure that even if they don't give a rip about me, they may be willing to get into a pissing contest with the FAA over who's boss.

[Steve Helmick]

I thought it interesting that AMA is suggesting that everybody (R/C bods) wait until the last day to register. While it seems the reasoning may be claimed to be to wait until AMA has time to file suit or such, the real effect would be to overload the FAA's website on the last day and make their server let the smoke out of the wires. Where is the "Thumbs Up" icon?  Steve

[Dick Pacini]

It is still confusing because the AMA email that arrived this afternoon, quoted above by Sparky, doesn't mention the exemption of C/L models as indicated in the highlighted statement in line #1 of the first post in this thread.

[RC Storick]

Lets give it a few days for the dust to settle. I was told that CL would not be included by the 3 different guys I spoke with today at AMA.

[Dan McEntee]

      I'm old enough to have had an FCC license for my CB radio (voice) and an FCC license for my first R/C set(non-voice, EK Logictrol). About a year after acquiring them, the FCC was inundated with applications for CB licenses when the CB radio craze hit it's stride, and they eliminated the requirement for a license, which incensed radio and TV stations across the country! I'm not worried about this at all, because the government will be incapable of administering the whole thing, and it's an unenforceable law. I think the AMA should show some back bone and advise us members to refuse to register because we are ALREADY registered at 75 bucks a year!! And they will never be able to find all the previously sold quad copters, and existing radio control planes and equipment. The AMA should claim exemption for us on Constitutional grounds under Ex Post Facto. All existing models and systems for hobby related model aviation should be exempt!
Type at you later,
 Dan McEntee

[Motorman]

Either way it goes I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna fly my Ringmaster in the back yard tomorrow.


MM

[Sean McEntee]

     I'm old enough to have had an FCC license for my CB radio (voice) and an FCC license for my first R/C set(non-voice, EK Logictrol). About a year after acquiring them, the FCC was inundated with applications for CB licenses when the CB radio craze hit it's stride, and they eliminated the requirement for a license, which incensed radio and TV stations across the country! I'm not worried about this at all, because the government will be incapable of administering the whole thing, and it's an unenforceable law. I think the AMA should show some back bone and advise us members to refuse to register because we are ALREADY registered at 75 bucks a year!! And they will never be able to find all the previously sold quad copters, and existing radio control planes and equipment. The AMA should claim exemption for us on Constitutional grounds under Ex Post Facto. All existing models and systems for hobby related model aviation should be exempt!
Type at you later,
 Dan McEntee

      How many times have you (speaking to everyone) gone to a flying site which requires AMA membership, and were asked by the local parks department or other law official to see your AMA card?  I would be willing to bet there is only a few, if any.  The current rules aren't enforced so I doubt that this will be executed any better.

[Sean McEntee]

 
1.       The AMA has been assured by FAA that registration only applies to RC aircraft.  Traditional CL aircraft are exempt.  However, if you use RC in any of your CL aircraft (some do) then you would have to register.
 
 
 

    ...and this is garbage and needs to be more specific.  It needs to be narrowed down to the use of RF to manipulate aerodynamic control surfaces to alter the models trajectory.  Throttle, landing gear, flaps ect. that are operated on CL models via RF should be excluded.

[REX1945]

I thought it interesting that AMA is suggesting that everybody (R/C bods) wait until the last day to register. While it seems the reasoning may be claimed to be to wait until AMA has time to file suit or such, the real effect would be to overload the FAA's website on the last day and make their server let the smoke out of the wires. Where is the "Thumbs Up" icon?  Steve

   Steve,

    I'm with you on this one.  The first month is free, the next months costs me something that the AMA won't cover it. I fly RC and use 2.4 Ghz and the US government wants me to register. No little 1 millon (max) member organization can over rule the fed. Yesterday they told me that minor children 13 years and older had to register in my youth club.

    There's no surprise that the Fed has it's head up it's ass on this one. But, we don't have to follow suit. I'm going to register and have all my kids (over 13) in the model airplane club register because that what they said (in law) for me to do. Why fight. I know it's a way of porting over the gun registration rules to model airplanes. That way we can be killed by registered guns and registered model airplanes (drones). Now I will know who killed me. A lot of help that is.

    We have the best politicians that money can buy.

    People get drunk and kill people with cars, kill people while texting on cell phones while driving, kill people with guns, and scare the hell out of folks with drones (I haven't heard of a death yet). You can't legislate good manners and social responsibility. It is learned at the dinner table or in church.  Our job is to set the example of social responsibility. So, until a revolution is declared I shall follow the government's laws. In my opinion (IMHO) , the county clerk who held up the marriage licenses was wrong.

    In the final analysis the net result will be "....full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" as Shakespeare wrote the soliloquie in MacBeth.

       Full text : Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by
                       an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

                         Stage : campaign trail
                         Poor Player : all candidates
                         Idiot : campaign manager, or Donald T, who manages himself.

     In engineering terms it is pure entropy (wasted hot air).
 

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

FCC registration?  You mean like KBPN5902?
Ya, I've got one of those numbers too.

[George Hostler]

The first month is free, the next months costs me something that the AMA won't cover it. I fly RC and use 2.4 Ghz and the US government wants me to register. No little 1 millon (max) member organization can over rule the fed. Yesterday they told me that minor children 13 years and older had to register in my youth club.

There is another way to look at this. By members biting the free carrot of $5 cost waiver could be viewed as a petition presented to Congress that these individuals (fallaciously) condone registration. (Like all the rest I don't like having my hand twisted in threat by an issue that requires failure to comply found guilty to be resolved by expensive court proceedings at my expense.) Unfortunately, this is not about respect for the law as established by Congress, but about regulation by an entity without consideration of the law in the so called banner of safety, when AMA member model airplane fliers already are not the culprit. I say it is worth the $5 to wait, then register. Nothing says you must wait until the very last day. But I think it is worthwhile to give the system a chance to address the issue. If addressed by the US Court of Appeals, could mean you don't register.

[RC Storick]

If this was truly about just registering so they know where the drone came from it should have been a either or option. You could have a AMA number for $75.00 or a US number for $5.00 your choice as they are both identifiers. Why should we have to pay a fee so they know who the AMA members are. If a AMA model causes a accident the number can be looked up and the owner apprehended.

We have enough GOOBERMENT employees already or is this Jobs creation by this administration. GOOBERMENT at its finest!

[Dave_Trible]

   Steve,

    I'm with you on this one.  The first month is free, the next months costs me something that the AMA won't cover it. I fly RC and use 2.4 Ghz and the US government wants me to register. No little 1 millon (max) member organization can over rule the fed. Yesterday they told me that minor children 13 years and older had to register in my youth club.

    There's no surprise that the Fed has it's head up it's ass on this one. But, we don't have to follow suit. I'm going to register and have all my kids (over 13) in the model airplane club register because that what they said (in law) for me to do. Why fight. I know it's a way of porting over the gun registration rules to model airplanes. That way we can be killed by registered guns and registered model airplanes (drones). Now I will know who killed me. A lot of help that is.

    We have the best politicians that money can buy.

    People get drunk and kill people with cars, kill people while texting on cell phones while driving, kill people with guns, and scare the hell out of folks with drones (I haven't heard of a death yet). You can't legislate good manners and social responsibility. It is learned at the dinner table or in church.  Our job is to set the example of social responsibility. So, until a revolution is declared I shall follow the government's laws. In my opinion (IMHO) , the county clerk who held up the marriage licenses was wrong.

    In the final analysis the net result will be "....full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" as Shakespeare wrote the soliloquie in MacBeth.

       Full text : Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by
                       an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

                         Stage : campaign trail
                         Poor Player : all candidates
                         Idiot : campaign manager, or Donald T, who manages himself.

     In engineering terms it is pure entropy (wasted hot air).
 

Just to clarify...this isn't a monthly fee.  It's once for three years .  It's free for the first three years if you sign up in the first 30 days.  I'm going to just sign up and move on.  More in life to worry about. Since it's free , if they change it..... No harm done.  Even if I had to lay out the five I don't think I'll need to file Chapter 13.  Since I 'may' fiddle with my other- than- CL  stuff sometime in the next three years ( or get my 2.4 gz engine shut off stuff in use) I'm covered. 

[RC Storick]

this is the guy who got this all started.

[mike londke]

this is the guy who got this all started.

What a jerk. The cop with the shotgun should have turned it into little pieces.

[peabody]

There seem to be conflicting reports as to the requirement that CL register....
My contact at the AMA, through the LM program, says that registration for all but FF will be necessary....

A "wait and see" is probably best.

Have fun!

[John Rist]

I haven't kept up on any of this.  Do the new proposed rules require the operator to register or does each aircraft have to be registered?  If the former is true does the federal registration # have to appear on all models?  If the latter is true there is no way to manage it all.  I did get a CB licence for my first RC radio.  How well did that hold up?   How many thousands of toy quality quads will be sold this Christmas?  In Christmas past one had to look out for kids on new bicycles.  Now it look out for kids with quads.

[Bill Johnson]

I haven't kept up on any of this.  Do the new proposed rules require the operator to register or does each aircraft have to be registered?  If the former is true does the federal registration # have to appear on all models?  If the latter is true there is no way to manage it all.  I did get a CB licence for my first RC radio.  How well did that hold up?   How many thousands of toy quality quads will be sold this Christmas?  In Christmas past one had to look out for kids on new bicycles.  Now it look out for kids with quads.

Hi, John.

It appears the owner registers. You get one number that goes on all your aircraft. Renew every 3 years.

[RC Storick]

Pisst! Hey buddy what are you in for?  Drone flying?

[BillP]

Now its FF? Since the news release earlier this week this is the third version (in conflict with each other) that is supposed to be from the AMA.  It seems they are talking opinion instead of fact based statements.  Maybe they should hold back until they have a written declaration from the FAA.

[Clancy Arnold]

johnt4051 posted the text of the email I also received today.  But I wish he would not have converted one sentence to bold type as i may cause many to miss the next sentence,  Subject: RE: FAA Rule affecting Model aviation.
 
1.       The AMA has been assured by FAA that registration only applies to RC aircraft.  Traditional CL aircraft are exempt.  However, if you use RC in any of your CL aircraft (some do) then you would have to register.

This would affect many AMA Members that fly CL Scale,  Navy Carrier or just Sport Flying using an RC controlled Throttle.

I will not have to register my self as I use no RF to control any of the functions in my CL Scale models!
Clancy

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

Well, that of course makes no sense.  scale options or a throttle working off of a transmitter doesn't change the fact that the plane has to be held on to to fly.  Maybe they've seen that joke video where they pretend a rc plane is a control line plane that flys off and think that is a possibility?

[Fred Cronenwett]

We really need a model airplane lawyer to read the rules and make sense out it, either way I plan on registering because I fly with 2.4 Ghz for the throttle and other features for CL scale. Regardless of where things end up I am covered. After flying with down the line electronics, 3-line and 2.4 Ghz I am not going back to the old way of controlling the throttle because of this rule. I use 2.4 Ghz for all of my models.

In the end the FAA will make the final decision on the rules and they may or may not listen to what the AMA has to say about it. CL models, RC models and Quads have been lumped into one big category to cover all of the bases by people who don't really understand what we do. We understand the differences but the lawyers writing the rules do not understand or appreciate the differences between our models. To cover all of the bases they lumped all the models into one big group.

We may not like it but it is time to just accept the rule and register regardless if we like it or not.

Fred

[RC Storick]

Civil disobedience

[Brett Buck]

We may not like it but it is time to just accept the rule and register regardless if we like it or not.

   No, Fred, it is not. This situation is far from clear. I surely expect RC of all types will be subject to registration. CL and FF will very likely not. In any case, the logistics are still to be worked out. And it is very likely to be legally challenged very soon - if not, the AMA is probably done for. As bad as I think they have done in drawing the important distinctions between modeling and toy purchasers, they do have abundant funds and should be very highly motivated to move on this.

    We may very well be faced with this in February, or in the near future. But it is wrong, it is being fought, and giving up and accepting it is at best premature.

    Brett

[Dan McEntee]

DEAR MR. AMA AND FAA!! WHY DON'T YOU BONE HEADS RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM AND ADDRESS IT! THE PROBLEM IS QUAD COPTERS AND VIDEO CAMERAS, NOT MODEL AIRPLANES AS TYPICALLY FLOWN BY HOBBIESTS. QUAD COPTERS ARE A GOOD , STABLE PLATFORM FOR SHOOTING VIDEO. ANY OTHER TYPE OF MODEL AIRPLANE CAN CARRY A VIDEO CAMERA BUT THEY MAKE LOUSY CAMERA PLATFORMS DUE TO EXCESS SPEED AND VIBRATION, AND ARE OTHERWISE IMPRACTICAL. PLUS, MODEL AIRPLANES ARE NOT EASILY AND CHEAPLY MASS PRODUCED AND CAN'T BE MADE TO BE FLOWN READY TO FLY  BY BLITHERING IDIOTS THAT DO NOT POSSESS ANY COMMON SENSE LIKE QUAD COPTERS CAN. SO, RATHER THAN TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF BLANKETING RULE, RECOGNIZE EXACTLY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, AND ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM, WHICH I REMIND YOU AGAIN, IS QUAD COPTERS WITH GO PRO CAMERAS AND LEAVE US WHO ARE SIMPLY ENJOYING A QUIET HOBBY FLYING MODEL AIRPLANES LIKE WE HAVE FOR MORE THAN 75 YEARS, ALONE!!!!!  IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!! [/b

     I'll register my toy airplanes when I can have a look at Obama's real birth certificate and his college transcripts.

     THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT,
       Dan McEntee
        AMA 28784

[Mike Keville]

Well said, Dan!

[john e. holliday]

DEAR MR. AMA AND FAA!! WHY DON'T YOU BONE HEADS RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM AND ADDRESS IT! THE PROBLEM IS QUAD COPTERS AND VIDEO CAMERAS, NOT MODEL AIRPLANES AS TYPICALLY FLOWN BY HOBBIESTS. QUAD COPTERS ARE A GOOD , STABLE PLATFORM FOR SHOOTING VIDEO. ANY OTHER TYPE OF MODEL AIRPLANE CAN CARRY A VIDEO CAMERA BUT THEY MAKE LOUSY CAMERA PLATFORMS DUE TO EXCESS SPEED AND VIBRATION, AND ARE OTHERWISE IMPRACTICAL. PLUS, MODEL AIRPLANES ARE NOT EASILY AND CHEAPLY MASS PRODUCED AND CAN'T BE MADE TO BE FLOWN READY TO FLY  BY BLITHERING IDIOTS THAT DO NOT POSSESS ANY COMMON SENSE LIKE QUAD COPTERS CAN. SO, RATHER THAN TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF BLANKETING RULE, RECOGNIZE EXACTLY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, AND ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM, WHICH I REMIND YOU AGAIN, IS QUAD COPTERS WITH GO PRO CAMERAS AND LEAVE US WHO ARE SIMPLY ENJOYING A QUIET HOBBY FLYING MODEL AIRPLANES LIKE WE HAVE FOR MORE THAN 75 YEARS, ALONE!!!!!  IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!! [/b

     I'll register my toy airplanes when I can have a look at Obama's real birth certificate and his college transcripts.

     THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT,
       Dan McEntee
        AMA 28784



How about seeing the E-Mails of what might be our next president.

[Chris McMillin]

LOL!

DEAR MR. AMA AND FAA!! WHY DON'T YOU BONE HEADS RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM AND ADDRESS IT! THE PROBLEM IS QUAD COPTERS AND VIDEO CAMERAS, NOT MODEL AIRPLANES AS TYPICALLY FLOWN BY HOBBIESTS. QUAD COPTERS ARE A GOOD , STABLE PLATFORM FOR SHOOTING VIDEO. ANY OTHER TYPE OF MODEL AIRPLANE CAN CARRY A VIDEO CAMERA BUT THEY MAKE LOUSY CAMERA PLATFORMS DUE TO EXCESS SPEED AND VIBRATION, AND ARE OTHERWISE IMPRACTICAL. PLUS, MODEL AIRPLANES ARE NOT EASILY AND CHEAPLY MASS PRODUCED AND CAN'T BE MADE TO BE FLOWN READY TO FLY  BY BLITHERING IDIOTS THAT DO NOT POSSESS ANY COMMON SENSE LIKE QUAD COPTERS CAN. SO, RATHER THAN TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF BLANKETING RULE, RECOGNIZE EXACTLY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, AND ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM, WHICH I REMIND YOU AGAIN, IS QUAD COPTERS WITH GO PRO CAMERAS AND LEAVE US WHO ARE SIMPLY ENJOYING A QUIET HOBBY FLYING MODEL AIRPLANES LIKE WE HAVE FOR MORE THAN 75 YEARS, ALONE!!!!!  IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!! [/b

     I'll register my toy airplanes when I can have a look at Obama's real birth certificate and his college transcripts.

     THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT,
       Dan McEntee
        AMA 28784

[Jim Roselle]

     I'll register my toy airplanes when I can have a look at Obama's real birth certificate and his college transcripts.

     THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT,
       Dan McEntee
        AMA 28784

Ah yes, the compelling story of a young woman from Wichita Kansas who wanted nothing more than to raise a foreign national to lead our nation. A woman who travelled to Africa to be impregnated by a black man. Upon birth of the child she secreted away to Hawaii in search of a hospital to falsify a birth certificate. In order to insure that this African baby would be a presidential shoe in she gave it the middle name "Hussein", because America loves a Muslim name. How could this half black supposed Muslim man lose, with so much in his favor?  Of course this plan would have failed were it not for the free passage from Africa to Hawaii then to the mainland aboard the chem trail jets.

I will be listing tin foil hats on eBay later today if anyone is interested.

Jim

[Fredvon4]

Jim

If I buy a bakers dozen can I get a discount for shipping?

[Jim Roselle]

Jim

If I buy a bakers dozen can I get a discount for shipping?

I don't know if I can get that many out by Cristmas.

Why don't you order my "make your own hat kit"


This kit makes up to 20 standard size hats. Order now and not only will it be there by Christmas, I'll throw in my free photo illustrated assembly guide:

[EJN]

Make sure the shiny side faces out, otherwise they don't work properly.

[Fredvon4]

I have some copper flashing that might make a pretty good Faraday shield for my whole body

[BillP]

Lead works good too but you cannot wear a lead hat unless its registered...or when retrieving your crashed drone in a pond. When your done with the hat you can make bullets from the lead...of course they will also have to be registered and have individual serial numbers. The AMA will handle lead hat registration and the decal must be affixed to the mandatory blue glow starter to comply. If you don't want to make bullets maybe a hat hurl could be included with the Fox 15 hurl event to make it a grand event.