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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Will Hinton on October 22, 2010, 01:04:19 PM
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Hey All,
When the building season creeps up on us here in NW Ohio, I usually wonder what new ship to build. However, the last two winters have seen me lose interest in building a new stunter for various reasons. I got involved in a scale ship - hard to switch to that, I must admit, and the last stunt ship, my Ephesian twin boomer, flies okay but pulls too hard for my scrawny wrist and I simply can't square it easily enough in spite of trying to trim most of the tension out of it. (Anyone want a super cheap twin boomer with 750 squares?)
I have two great flying ships, my two Crosswinds, one on a PA65 and the other a PA75, so why build a new stunt ship anyway? Besides, I've only burned four gallons in the last two seasons, so why build at all!?
Well, I need to rebuild the fire and shuck this crazy schedule that has not allowed me the flying time and one incentive to do that will be a different ship. But what?
GOT THE ANSWER! I'll refinish the number two Crosswinds. The $$kote job is the worst I ever did and it's a few hundred years old, or so - so refinish it is the answer. After all, it is already a proven flier, has the line tension I like, which is light but steady all over the circle, and there won't be the tendency to want to finish it fast.
I removed the 75 and pipe and weighed it sans LG and cowl and it weighs 40 oz. See pictures one and two.
Then I stripped the $$kote and sanded on the fuse until it is level finished with the grain still filled. Why remove it all and then put it back on? (You'll tell me I'll save weight if I do that, but I really wonder at all that theory. I seriously don't think it will cost me more than half an ounce.
The plane as you see it in pictures three and four is 34 oz.
I plan on a white base with a patriotic scheme, ala Derick's and Scott Condon's airplanes. They both are responsible for inspiring me to this. I've taken the canopy and rudder off as I never really liked the outlines anyway - plan on a clear canopy with pilot's and totally new rudder outline.
I'll be interested to see how close to the 63 oz final weight of the original plane I can come with this.
I'll keep you posted of the progress.
Blessings,
Will
Okay, it tells me the file is too large, so I'll post pictures in a new post.
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Picture one here is another of the old finish, the rest in this one is the stripped down version.
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One more
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Looks like a lot of work, but, it beats building a whole new airplane. Keep us posted. Now when is book four going to be started with the new families in the not so wild west?
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I don't know. I've always found refinishing a plane as much work as building the thing from scratch. But Will makes a good point. He knows this one is a good flier.
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Hi Randy,
I'm sure what you've found is typical, but we have to remember - your planes start out gorgeous so need more work to undo the original finish. Mine are the ones the rest of the pilots make me set them out away from the pits so they don't have to look at them! :)
I plan to do a good finish this time, mainly so Roger Wildman will stop hollering at me!
Will
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Hey Will, tell Roger to stuff a sock in it. LL~ LL~ I have seen pics of your planes and there is no room behind the brush for them. Mine are there already. H^^
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Will, when we have our annual get-together this winter you can show it off to Roger, hum? Look'en good.
By the way, the Saito gas 4 stroke for the scale ship is a great find, I'm loven it. #^ #^
blessings
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Will,
What are you using to refinish?...Monokote, Ultracote, etc.
Good thread!
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Crist - and others, I'll Monokote the flying surfaces and paint the fuse. This is my most successful approach yet for fuel proof and light. I plan to go with my old tried and true Krylon colors airbrushed on the fuse, using Monokote trim sheets for the trim colors everywhere, then cover the fuse with Nason two-part automotive clear. Depending on the weight at that time, I may attempt a clear coat on the wings just to better secure the trim sheet trim strips. I've found that, even after double sealing the edges, they start to release after several hundred flights, especially around the leading edges, etc. The jury is still out on that.
As soon as my new trim sealing iron arrives I'm ready to Monokote the trailing edges of the wings and stab as well as the LE for the flaps and elevators. When that's done, I'll post some pics of the process. Then I plan to seal the hinge lines with Monokote, as I've done in the past. The main difference here will be that the seals are UNDER the main wing and stab coverings.
I'm trying to do this without removing the hinges, so this should be interesting.
Thanks, all, for the interest. More to come.
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Will,
Looking forward to seeing the finished product. It will definetly be worth the effort if you can keep the weight the same or better. The plane flies good enough to be worth the effort. Also, finished book 3. Really enjoyed the series, too bad it came to an end! Look forward to seeing you soon!
Mike
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%^@ WILL! I have your Jim Lee syringe....sorry guy. Send me your addy, I will mail it. Hiya Mikey! H^^
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Mike, thanks much, but I'm thinking the series will likely continue after I finish the current work - there's already a first chapter going through my pea-brain, so.......?? I don't think I'm capable of leaving these characters now after much thought.
Whatca building this season?
Will
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Will,
Looking forward to seeing the finished product. It will definetly be worth the effort if you can keep the weight the same or better. The plane flies good enough to be worth the effort. Also, finished book 3. Really enjoyed the series, too bad it came to an end! Look forward to seeing you soon!
Mike
How can it come to an end when there are two new families and a new railroad. #^ #^
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Hiya John! Building anything new for next season?
Will, haven't had much time to work on anything. I am trying to finish a Zero profile and then move on to a new classic. Between my son having to have 2 surgeries on his legs and my daughter's activities, building time is pretty scarce.
Glad you are thinking about continuing the series! Looking forward to seeing where you go with it.
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Wow Mike, the leg thing is really working on that young man, huh? I'll be much in prayer for the success of the surgeries! He's awfully young to have to go through that. I know you'll take good care of him, though, so keep us posted on his progress.
Blessings,
Will
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Thanks for the prayers Will. Thankfully the procedures aren't that invasive, but any surdery is still surgery. The plan is to have him ready to play in the spring, but if not, he should be ready to condition during summer for soccer and practice kicking for football. I will keep you posted. His first surgery is scheduled for Tuesday, unless they pull a huge upset tonight in the sectional football game, then we reschedule. So who knows???
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I AM GOING TO CHECK ON THE FOOTBALL SCORES TONIGHT, UPSETS HAPPEN, THAT'S WHY WE PLAY THE GAME HUM?
WE'LL BE PRAYING FOR HIM ALSO. BY SOME CHANCE IS THE SCHELBORN CLINIC DOING THE SURGERY? kEEP US INFORMED.
BLESSINGS.
ALLEN
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Thanks Allen,
Well, the upset happened, 24-21. He contributed a 32yd FG and 3 xtra points. So at least one more week of football. Now on to the rechedule process. We are having Methodist Sports Medicine take care of him. We as a family have has real good success with this group, plus his doc is a specialist with his issues.
Take care,
Mike
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Hiya John! Building anything new for next season?
Will, haven't had much time to work on anything. I am trying to finish a Zero profile and then move on to a new classic. Between my son having to have 2 surgeries on his legs and my daughter's activities, building time is pretty scarce.
Glad you are thinking about continuing the series! Looking forward to seeing where you go with it.
Yup....the secret weapon! VD~ H^^ gearing up the shop right now.
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Let's see....open top, SS 396 or 454? Or are we changing models???
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It just may be that it's so secret even John doesn't know the full story yet! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ ~^ S?P S?P /DV
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As I plan out my color scheme I have questions regarding spraying two-part auto clear over Monokote. I plan to use some self made decals I just finished printing out on the wings, and I don't trust them to stay without a coating of some kind over them.
Has anyone sprayed over $$kote before, and if so, how did it last? I'm not crazy about the weight possibilities, but haven't made up my mind yet as to whether I'll use these or not. I hope for at least another 500 flights on this airframe, so whatever I do has to hold up.
Thanks guys,
Will
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As I plan out my color scheme I have questions regarding spraying two-part auto clear over Monokote. I plan to use some self made decals I just finished printing out on the wings, and I don't trust them to stay without a coating of some kind over them.
Has anyone sprayed over $$kote before, and if so, how did it last? I'm not crazy about the weight possibilities, but haven't made up my mind yet as to whether I'll use these or not. I hope for at least another 500 flights on this airframe, so whatever I do has to hold up.
Thanks guys,
Will
Contact Allen Brickhaus.
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Bet you guys thought I'd burned the project, huh? Life has been a zoo here, but I finally got back to the project - have the fuse' ready for blocking coat and the horizontal empenage MonoKoted and the hinge-line sealed with $$kote.
I finally, after all these years of using iron on coverings, bought a trim seal iron and I love it. Where has my head been? DON'T ANSWER THAT!!!!
I also have the new rudder built & covered, I like the shape a whole bunch better. Truth be told, I never did like the other rudder shape after I built the second Crosswind! I won't bother attaching it until I'm done covering. It's late, so I'll approach the wings tomorrow.
Allen B got back to me concerning the part about spraying clear coats on $$Kote, so it looks like a go for that part of the finish. Great scott I hate the thought of the weight, but if I use the trim I want, it has to happen. I doubt if my 62 ounce previous weight will be met, but we'll see. I took a quarter ounce off the cowling by stripping it, land-o-goshen, how did I get THAT much finish on a little cowling?!?! :o :o :o ??? ??? ???
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Hey Will, you could always go electric and forget about the clear coat! #^
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Hey Will, you could always go electric and forget about the clear coat! #^
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. >:D n1
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. >:D n1
LOL!
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H^^
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Have a good one Will.
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I now have the $$Kote on, am trying to decide what to use for fillets, my standard Sig Epoxylite or micro-balloons and epoxy. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Doing the hinge lines went really well, and that was an area I was sort of dreading. Turned out to not be a problem at all with the trim sealing iron.
I'll get some pics and weights posted soon, been busy with speaking engagements with the holidays getting closer.
Will
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Keep chugging along Will, Hope to re-join you & the rest of the crew on the field next summer
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Thanks Denny,
I sure hope you do, we missed ya this year! I'm about ready for blocking coat on the fuse'. I might even have one day home this week to work on it!
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I'm starting to get a little more time at home now, so should be able to get more done. That is, if I quit doing stupid things to it! I had to remove the canopy this AM because I "somehow" applied a large blurb of RC56 that I missed seeing. It was really ugly showing up on the inside of the canopy for about an inch! I'm not a perfectionist, but that had to go! It's re-applied now, waiting for the RC56 to cure out so I can put the Epoxylite rim around it.
After that, I will paint the rim white and then start the trim scheme. It ain't gonna be front row by any means, but it sure looks better than before. (At least at this point.)
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Pictures?
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Shortly. Gotta finish spraying the fillet around the canopy after it cures first, then I'll shoot some. Probably tomorrow.
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Well, "tomorrow" took longer to get here than I figured on, but here's the ship ready for trim. Maybe I should just leave it this way and rename it Casper?
I have to send one picture per reply as my files are way too big for some reason. maybe because I used Photoshop to correct the lighting?
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Cockpit - my old Olympus doesn't do such a good job on details, but there are instruments in there.
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And finally the right front quarter view.
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That is looking great. When you get done can I send you a couple of mine for finishing. LL~ LL~ OOps, forgot about the appearance points, wouldn't get them if you did that for me. H^^
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Thanks Doc. Problem is, if you send me a ship, I have a zillion other projects ahead of yours! (Finish the scale Tri-Pacer, semi-scale Pawnee, a guitar or twelve, etc.) Oh, and another book or so!
You get the picture. y1 y1
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Looks good Will, keep going!
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I like the changes!! Looking forward to seeing it with color. y1
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Ooooookay; here it is in color, ready for some repairs to the white and then clear where needed for the decals and fuse'. This will be one picture per reply. I love the Monokote trim sheets, they allow me to be as creative or non-creative as I like without the possibility of pulling the substrate off with masking tape.
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Next.
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And again.
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Sigh...
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The last for this point.
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Well, it's certainly patriotic. How much weight did you save?
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Not sure yet, Randy, I neglected to weigh it before breaking out the tape to get it ready for clear - hopefully tomorrow. I'll weigh it as soon as I take the tape off. I love your positive attitude in asking how much weight I SAVED! (I sure hope you're right, but it was actually fairly light for a TP to begin with.)
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Looks nice Will.
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Hey Will,Lookin' GOOD.Can't wait to launch it.Those R/C guys keep the grass nice where we fly.Think they will plow the grass for us so we don't have to wait til' spring to go flyin'????Remember I still have not did a cloverleaf(At least on porpose!!!) so pray for 70 degrees and 6 knots or less.Jeffery
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The last for this point.
That's really nice, Will! I love the paint scheme.
Big Bear
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Thanks guys. I sprayed clear today and it became a tiny disaster. Part way through the second coat my ten year-old-without-ever-being-overhauled-and-used-way-too-much-for-that-to-be-the-case spray gun popped a seal and dripped on the fuse in several spots before I got it off the beast. Drat. Now I gotta go back and sand, sand, sand. Phooey. I also gotta overhaul the gun. Oh well. It's winter, nuthin' better to do right now. b (I seem to remember thinking I should replace the seals a year ago while spraying a guitar. Hmmmm. Senior approach?)
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Great job on the graphics Will. Is the PA 75 going in this one?
Blessings
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Allen,
Thanks Partner. YES, the PA75 will go back in the beast. At 63 ounces with the 75 in it I should be able to fly 25 second laps and still have tension. (Well, maybe I stretch it just a tad bit.)
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Allen,
Thanks Partner. YES, the PA75 will go back in the beast. At 63 ounces with the 75 in it I should be able to fly 25 second laps and still have tension. (Well, maybe I stretch it just a tad bit.)
Hi Brother Will,
The only problem with 25 second laps is that you would over run somewhere around the square 8's probably! LL~
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Good point, big brother! Besides, I'd probably fall asleep during inverted. ::) ::)
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Good point, big brother! Besides, I'd probably fall asleep during inverted. ::) ::)
LL~ LL~ LL~
Gonna tell on myself here, Brother Will. Long, long ago, at a contest far, far away (Norfolk, VA) I DID fall asleep inverted.
Took the canopy off the T-Bird II, broke the prop at the spinner, but, thankfully it was in front of Dale Barry and he killed the '72 Fox .40S shaft run.......
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Will, I hate to burst your bubble any than the desaster with the clear, but, double check your stars on the bottom wing. To me the outboard doesn't match the inboard. Maybe its my eyes, but, the outboard wing has two stars that don't look right. ??? The plane looks gorgeous otherwise. H^^
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My stars, Doc, how ya doin'? Actually, those won't be getting any clear, so if such is the case, I can re-do them afterward. I'm only clear coating the decals on the wings and the whole fuse for fuel proofing. I have it all masked off right now so can't check it out. I'll do so and let ya know when I get to that point.
Thanks much, Doc, I appreciate it!
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Duuhhh Will, why dontcha just look at the same picture Doc was lookin' at!? HB~> HB~>
I did, and you are so right, Doc. I'll redo those when I get it unmasked. I owe ya a Big Mac! #^ y1 y1
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Well, by golly......... the last two stars on the bottom of the outboard wing ARE going in the wrong direction! Didn't notice that when I looked at it. I did notice a design in the stars on the bottom of the stab/elev though. The inboard is a bit clearer. ;D
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I really intended the bottom of the stab to be totally random. If there's a pattern, I goofed again!! y1 n~ n~
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I sprayed the clear this afternoon, it went much better with the new gun. I decided the old gun was way too much bother and risk to overhaul, so broke free of some cash. The other gun was quite aged anyway. This little cheapie touch-up gun works great. Now to wait 'til it cures and then unmask it so I can fix Doc's stars!
I want to weigh it tomorrow afternoon or Monday AM to see how it's doing. I really don't look for much change.
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Good old two-part clear. I unmasked the beast and fixed Doc's stars. Doc, it looks so much better that we'll make that a combo meal and biggie size it!
Weighed the monster, exactly the same as before! That makes me very happy. There's a couple of touch-up things to do yet, but with little effort it will be done and I can get back to the scale Tri-Pacer.
The finish is much better than before, but still not a super nice one - that just isn't something I'm interested in. I fly "stand-off" stunt, ya gotta stray 15 feet away when judging! But it's pretty from there. The guys will let me set it with theirs now, though. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
I'll post a final picture when it's done.
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Hey you can surely make up the 19 points by flying. {No I didn't call you Schirly} LL~ LL~ Most of the maneuvers are done about 100 feet away from the so called judges. VD~ I envy you guys that can do great finishes. H^^
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major tragedy today. :'( I decided to buff out a spot on the elevator, got distracted, and caught the thing on the buffer. Broke the horizantal empenage loose, cracked the inboard fuse side for about six inches in front of the stab, and, of course, damaged the elevator. Stupid mistake on my part. It's reparible, but it sure is disappointing to pull a stunt like that. Now it's off to the races for finish repair on that area. I intend to cut the bottom out below that spot to put a scab in on the inboard side to insure structural strength. Hey, if I'm gonna spray more paint, might as well do it right.
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I hate it when that happens.
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Hi Will,
I'm sorry to hear of the set back. At least you have time to do the repairs before it warms up enough to get out flying!
Stay with it.
Bill
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Randy, Yes, I hate it when it happens, but it's a million times worse since I pulled such a stupid stunt that I knew better than to try! Why do I do that? Oh well, I have plenty of touch-up paint.
Bill, yeah, I'll stay with it, the ship is too good a flier to abandon.
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The structural damage is all repaired, I doubt if I added more than a quarter ounce, but it still gripes me that I would do that. Tomorrow I start sanding and getting ready to blend in the repair spots. We have a funeral mid-day, but should be home by 1:00 and then whackin' away at it.
I cut a hatch out of the bottom and inspected the fuse, then added hard balsa 1/16 scabs over the split area and the stab attachment points, and replaced the hatch. The tail section is good and stiff.
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Brother Will,
I'm glad it wasn't more involved! Sounds like you have it covered, no problem.
BTW: How much fuel, and type, are you burning in the .75? Using a clunk tank or metal?
Thanks,
Bill
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Will, at least you didn't do like a young man back in the day. According to the story, if something didn't go right with the plane it was destroyed. I hate to think how many planes that person went thru to get one finished. H^^
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Will, at least you didn't do like a young man back in the day. According to the story, if something didn't go right with the plane it was destroyed. I hate to think how many planes that person went thru to get one finished. H^^
From Jack Sheeks, I understand Bernie Ash used to destroy his planes and start over when something happened he didn't like. Jack told a story of Bernie taking everything model related out in back yard and having a great big bon fire once. Jack said Bernie was calling to go to the hobby shop with him a day or two later. ;D
Merry Christmas!
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Hey Bill,
My 75 burns 7.5 ounces at 9400 RPM flying 5.7 to 5.8 second laps on a 13.75 X 4.25 three blade for a run of 6:30 to 6:45. It will change as it breaks in more, but it has less than two hours on it right now. My 65 is 7 years old and is just now broken in as far as I'm concerned! The 65 burns 6.5 ounces at the same rpm range and same lap and flight times on a 13.5 X 4.25 three blade. Great engines!!!!
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Hey Bill,
My 75 burns 7.5 ounces at 9400 RPM flying 5.7 to 5.8 second laps on a 13.75 X 4.25 three blade for a run of 6:30 to 6:45. It will change as it breaks in more, but it has less than two hours on it right now. My 65 is 7 years old and is just now broken in as far as I'm concerned! The 65 burns 6.5 ounces at the same rpm range and same lap and flight times on a 13.5 X 4.25 three blade. Great engines!!!!
Thanks, Will.
I guess I will have to be content with the "lowly" PA .61 and PA .51 engines we have here for now.LOL!!
Taking my Geo Juno for example, it started life around 1996 with a OS .40VF. Went to a PA .51 and now a PA .61. Each change brought about definite differences in the way the plane flew. The .51 to .61 change wasn't as much, but noticeable. I have no clue how it would be with a .65 or .75!
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I forgot to answer your question completely Bill. I use clunk tanks, have ever since Bob Hunt showed me how to plumb the beasts back in the early 90's and wouldn't go back to metal if ya held a gun to my head! I use the Sullivan slant model exclusively.
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Finally back together! The bad judgement on my part cost me dearly in weight! The repairs added much more than I wanted to - it was coming out at the same weight as where I started. Oh well.
since my cheap camera uses up so much memory per picture I'll use four posts here. I'm pleased with the outcome except for the weight, but it's still a "stand off stunt" model. (Stay 15 feet away.)
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Let's try two pics this time, just to see whahoppens.
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And a comparison.
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Hi Wil,
I just read this post from start to finish, I had to laugh about the buffer incident. I did the same thing to my Skylark2 it flipped the thing across the basement. I believe it flew better that way than it did with the .51 Tiger .
Maybe this July you can stay at the field until lunch time. >:D
Happy New Year, john
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Brother Will,
I love the graphics, they just hit me right! The Eagles are AWESOME!
(and do really think Roger would get in the backseat?? LOL!!!!!!!!)
Very, very nice, Will. I hope to get to see it.
Bill
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Very, very nice looking airplane Will.
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Looks very cool, Will. Very cool.
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Thanks guys, and John, you have no idea how good you just made me feel! LL~ LL~ I don't know yet what my nats schedule is going to be, but I hope we can make time to get together.
I just weighed the original Crosswind and it is SIX ounces lighter than number two! Number two used to be one ounce lighter than number one! Ouch. ''
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If I remember ...it was almost time to fly & you had to return home. I was surprised but after you told me why I understood. I hope this year you are able to stay a bit longer.
John
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So do I, I don't think I'm going to judge scale this year, that will change things as far as time spent at Muncie.
Will
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NICE!! H^^ #^ 8)
...and just how DID you coinvince Roger to sit in back???
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As in real life the instructor always sits in the back. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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As in real life the instructor always sits in the back. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
But ONLY if he has a set of flight controls & can take over! :o >:D n~
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hey, it's my airplane! I always had to take a back seat to Roger while he was still flying advanced, so this time it's my turn. (pout, pout.)
In all seriousness, I will ALWAYS take a back seat to Roger when it comes to finishing -he is simply one of the premier finishers in the sport! And I need to add here, one of the sports nicest guys, otherwise I wouldn't pick on him.
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hey, it's my airplane! I always had to take a back seat to Roger while he was still flying advanced, so this time it's my turn. (pout, pout.)
In all seriousness, I will ALWAYS take a back seat to Roger when it comes to finishing -he is simply one of the premier finishers in the sport! And I need to add here, one of the sports nicest guys, otherwise I wouldn't pick on him.
..and if YOU weren't one of the sports nicest guys I wouldn't pick on YOU either... 010!
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Bless you Denny, thank you.
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..and if YOU weren't one of the sports nicest guys I wouldn't pick on YOU either... 010!
Ditto!
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;D Been a little absent and figured it was time to check in. Looking good Will! Sorry to hear about buffer incident. See you at WPAFB in a few weeks!
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Thanks John,
I'm in a quandary here, my 97 year old mother-in-law is not doing well, has been coming up with one health problem after another since falling a couple of months ago, and it looks like I need to hang around here as much as possible. We've been making the 45 minute drive every other day and will continue to do so until she's well enough to go to a nursing home.
The dear lady is still sharp as can be mentally, has a conquering spirit, so we are hopeful for her recovery and to get her back to living alone as she has done up until now. I more than likely will not be able to make Dayton as a result.
Blessings, tell all I said "HI!"
Will
'' :'( :'(
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Hey Will, sorry to hear about your Mother-in-law. Remember also family comes first if John hasn't told you yet. My Mother-in-law and phone call interceptor was 83 when she finally got tired of all the things bothering her. What I really think made her give up was when the medical doctor told her she had two weeks. Take care and hope to meet you one of these days.
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Thanks John,
I'm in a quandary here, my 97 year old mother-in-law is not doing well, has been coming up with one health problem after another since falling a couple of months ago, and it looks like I need to hang around here as much as possible. We've been making the 45 minute drive every other day and will continue to do so until she's well enough to go to a nursing home.
The dear lady is still sharp as can be mentally, has a conquering spirit, so we are hopeful for her recovery and to get her back to living alone as she has done up until now. I more than likely will not be able to make Dayton as a result.
Blessings, tell all I said "HI!"
Will
'' :'( :'(
My thoughts, best wishes, and Prayers for you all, Brother Will.
Bill
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Thanks friends,
We appreciate the prayers and kind wishes. She looked pretty good today, we went and had lunch with her at the rehab center. They have her off all anti-biotics but one now, so here's hoping. (And praying.
doc, we gotta meet sooner or later.
And coach, get your sorry big___up here again soon! y1 y1 (Ya know I'm kiddin', dontcha?) LL~ LL~
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Thanks friends,
We appreciate the prayers and kind wishes. She looked pretty good today, we went and had lunch with her at the rehab center. They have her off all anti-biotics but one now, so here's hoping. (And praying.
doc, we gotta meet sooner or later.
And coach, get your sorry big___up here again soon! y1 y1 (Ya know I'm kiddin', dontcha?) LL~ LL~
Hi Will,
I will make every attempt to get "it" and the rest of my tired old aching body up there ASAP! LL~
Bill