Recommendations for RTF .35 size

[Kevin M. Smith]

Finishing assembly on my super clown electric . A modeler recently  sold me a new in the box OS MAx .35., my favorite engine of the 70’s . Any recommendations on a nice RTF trainer for it ?  I don’t want to build a plane I’m going to destroy learning maneuvers . The ringmaster is probably to small for it ?

[Randy Cuberly]

In terms of "ready to fly" there are not many choices currently in suitable trainers!

I would mention that a Ringmaster can be quite happy with an OS 35 and about a 10-5 or 10-4 prop.

Many, many years ago I and a lot of other fliers learned to fly on Ringmasters with Fox 35's or McCoy 35's.  The OS 35, while easier to run and certainly more reliable, is not a far reach from the McCoy in terms of weight and power!

For what you want I don't think you could do Wrong with a ARF or RTF Ringmaster from Brodak or RSM.

Later the OS could be used in just about any of the Classic Stunt Planes in the early era that utilized a Fox 35 or similar!

Both Brodak and RSM kit several of them!  Take your choice.

Randy Cuberly

[Gary Dowler]

I would agree with Randy about a Ringmaster.  Spent many many a fun afternoon flying a Ringmaster powered by an old Stallion 35.  Balance it right and it will do the entire stunt pattern, to some degree.  It would be happier with a OS 20FP, but you don't have one of those so since the old 35 will do the trick.......   

[Steve Helmick]

I'd suggest looking for an ARF Nobler (they're still around, even if out of production) or a Vector 40 ARF for an OS .35S, if that's what you've got. The Nobler is a bit of a project, because the control system and LG absolutely suck. Tom Morris can provide a complete modern control system for it.  Steve

[kenneth cook]

            Whenever I saw a MAX-S .35 in a ARF, it seemed to be in the Smoothie. They do fly quite nicely with that engine. Not that a old timely profile wouldn't be a excellent choice, the full bodied Smoothie looks pretty cool.

[john e. holliday]

Kevin, if you were in the KC area I have a plane that engine would love with a little clean up of the plane.   Any body in the KC area want it as it is my version of the Fancher mods to the Twister when Ted first wrote about them.  It is just collecting dust.

[gene poremba]

            Whenever I saw a MAX-S .35 in a ARF, it seemed to be in the Smoothie. They do fly quite nicely with that engine. Not that a old timely profile wouldn't be a excellent choice, the full bodied Smoothie looks pretty cool.

 This is a very good combination. I have that same set up and it works well.....Gene

[Guy B Jr]

Your original post mentioned learning the pattern. If that is your goal, then "stick and money coat" ARF's is not what you need to start. There are two major trainers on the market.

The Streak RST (rugged stunt trainer) is produced by the Core House (check vendors corner). Foam wing and durable. I have not flown one, but friends have and love it.

Also, Tom Dixon is now producing the UKEY 40. A 500 sq in foam wing stunt trainer. I can attest to the durability since I own the 15 size and the 40 size. The 40 is powered by a Brodak 40 and has alum 2 wheel gear.

Just a retread's opinion.

[goozgog]

Good morning Kevin,

   Just a reminder to add some castor
to modern fuels.  I always assume that
cool-aid fuel like Omega or Wildcat comes
with 17% Synthetic/castor.  I usually add
about 6 oz of castor when I'm running
un-chromed engines.

I burned up a new ST .35 and a K&B .61
before I realized my mistake.. Oops.

[Fredvon4]

Kevin

Bobs Your Uncle is near you in the Bay Area and selling a Teosawki Fully assembled   with or with out and engine....check in todays classified section

I also suggest the Phil Cartier Rugged Stunt Trainer (RST) or one of Tom Dixon's UKEY    both are very easy to assemble and fly pretty good for my hacking around

[Ken Culbertson]

I'd suggest looking for an ARF Nobler (they're still around, even if out of production) or a Vector 40 ARF for an OS .35S, if that's what you've got. The Nobler is a bit of a project, because the control system and LG absolutely suck. Tom Morris can provide a complete modern control system for it.  Steve

I have an AFF Nobler with the same OS35s I flew in 1978 and it flies beautifully.  DO NOT HESITATE to replace the controls but the LG is only a problem if you fly over grass and if you don't the wheels are too big.  However, the Nobler, in all of it's variations (just about anything from 1960 to 1980) is not a good plane to learn stunt.  In fact no competition capable plane from the "Classic" era is good to learn on.  Once you are past the basics, and there are numerous good suggestions here, the Nobler, it's offspring, or even better the Vector 40 is just fine.  FYI that engine was from the era where proper break-in was a must.  If it is truly new, find somebody that used to run them and still remembers the program tell you how.  If you know all of this already - never mind.

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Kevin, if you were in the KC area I have a plane that engine would love with a little clean up of the plane.   Any body in the KC area want it as it is my version of the Fancher mods to the Twister when Ted first wrote about them.  It is just collecting dust.

John,
If Kevin doesn't want your Fancherized Twister, I would love to have it.  I have two OS Max S .35 engines.  I will be at the Kansas City CL fun fly on May 19, 2018.  The last time I flew CL I was in my twenties (64 now).  I could fly upside down and do horizontal eights back then.  I'm hoping to learn the full AMA pattern.  I bought 4 gallons of SIG 10% nitro, 25% Castor and have added a 1.5 oz. of Klotz.   I will be building a Top FLite Tutor kit I bought in the 1970's.  I've bought straight balsa to replace the warped and twisted pieces in the kit.   

At my stage of flying would it be a good idea to put in an adjustable carbon fiber pushrod system, or would that just be overkill in these early stages?

Thanks,

Joe Ed Pederson
AMA 103434

[john e. holliday]

Hey that is great.  Will pull it off the hook and put it in the Suburban.   I plan on having the B-25 with me as well as several other planes.

[Ken Culbertson]

Kevin, if you were in the KC area I have a plane that engine would love with a little clean up of the plane.   Any body in the KC area want it as it is my version of the Fancher mods to the Twister when Ted first wrote about them.  It is just collecting dust.

John,
If Kevin doesn't want your Fancherized Twister, I would love to have it.  I have two OS Max S .35 engines.  I will be at the Kansas City CL fun fly on May 19, 2018.  The last time I flew CL I was in my twenties (64 now).  I could fly upside down and do horizontal eights back then.  I'm hoping to learn the full AMA pattern.  I bought 4 gallons of SIG 10% nitro, 25% Castor and have added a 1.5 oz. of Klotz.   I will be building a Top FLite Tutor kit I bought in the 1970's.  I've bought straight balsa to replace the warped and twisted pieces in the kit.   

At my stage of flying would it be a good idea to put in an adjustable carbon fiber pushrod system, or would that just be overkill in these early stages?

Thanks,

Joe Ed Pederson
AMA 103434

Use the carbon fiber.  If you can't do that then try using Carbon Fiber.  I sat out for about 30 years and asked the same question when I got back in.  Bit more advanced as I was an Expert when I quit.  Picked up an ARF Nobler to get me back in the habit of walking in circles and not getting dizzy and testing my rusty skills.  I just went with what I knew and used the kit controls.  BIG MISTAKE.  No amount of describing the difference can replace flying a plane with positive controls with no slop in them.   

Welcome back - Ken

[Ken Culbertson]

Good morning Kevin,

   Just a reminder to add some castor
to modern fuels.  I always assume that
cool-aid fuel like Omega or Wildcat comes
with 17% Synthetic/castor.  I usually add
about 6 oz of castor when I'm running
un-chromed engines.

I burned up a new ST .35 and a K&B .61
before I realized my mistake.. Oops.

Pardon what may appear to be a dumb question but is the caster you add the grocery store variety or is it something different.  It never occurred to me that I may burn up my trusty Max 35s because I am using modern fuel in an old engine.  Is that 6 oz per gallon?  Should I up the nitro from 5 to 10 or add some other stuff to compensate?  Should I add some nose weight to compensate for the extra crud I will have on the tail?

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Ken,

Sig sells high quality castor oil.

For an excellent discussion on old engines, oil and fuels, from here go back to the Stunthanger home page and scroll down from "Open Forums" that we are in now.   Keep scrolling down until you get to  "Engine set up tips.".  The second topic "Engine tuning tips" by Randy Smith covers the old engines (Fox .35, OS Max S, etc.) and what oil percentages to use to keep them running, glow plugs, and other tips to get them to run well and safely.

Joe Ed Pederson
AMA 103434

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Quote from Ken: I have an AFF Nobler with the same OS35s I flew in 1978 and it flies beautifully.  DO NOT HESITATE to replace the controls but the LG is only a problem if you fly over grass and if you don't the wheels are too big.  However, the Nobler, in all of it's variations (just about anything from 1960 to 1980) is not a good plane to learn stunt.  In fact no competition capable plane from the "Classic" era is good to learn on.  Once you are past the basics, and there are numerous good suggestions here, the Nobler, it's offspring, or even better the Vector 40 is just fine.  FYI that engine was from the era where proper break-in was a must.  If it is truly new, find somebody that used to run them and still remembers the program tell you how.  If you know all of this already - never mind.[/i

Why is a Nobler and other Classic Era models not a good choice for learning the pattern?

Joe Ed Pederson

[Skip Chernoff]

Joe the classic stunters are not going to be as durable as your typical Ringmaster or the like. Learn how to fly the maneuvers,then get a "stunt ship" to fly them with precision. The biggest hurdle to get over is learning to fly inverted ,and you don't want to bury a stunt ship just learning the basic stuff. Just my opinion.....PhillySkip

[Joe Ed Pederson]

To Skip Chernoff,

Thanks for the response on why not a Nobler or Classic. 

To Ken Culberton,

Here's a link to a site that I found on a thread in the Engine section of Stunthanger. that has a calculator to determine how much castor oil to add to get the percentage of oil you want the fuel to have.    The calculator will also tell you how much the additional oil will reduce the percentage of nitro after adding in the oil.  http://www.nitrorc.com/default2.asp?Introduction=http://www.nitrorc.com/fuelws/oilonly.asp    You just plug in how many ounces of fuel you are starting with, what nitro you are starting with and what percentage of oil you want to get to. 
This website says to just mix the oil into the quart or gallon of fuel you have.  There's a thread somewhere in the Engine Section of Stunthanger where Randy Smith says the calculations will be off if you do not first draw out the same number of ounces of fuel from the full quart or gallon that the calculator tells you to add in ounces of oil.

In my case I used the calculator to determine how much Klotz to add to my Sig 10% Nitro with 25% pure Castor Oil to get a total of 26% oil.  If I remember right it said to add 1.5 ounces of oil to get a total of 26% oil and it said my Nitro content would then be 9.96% nitro (if memory serves).  So, I first drew off 1.5 ounces of fuel before adding the 1.5 ounces of Klotz.  I just wanted enough synthetic oil to keep the castor oil from varnishing up my OS Max S .35. 

Joe Ed Pederson

[Ken Culbertson]

Joe the classic stunters are not going to be as durable as your typical Ringmaster or the like. Learn how to fly the maneuvers,then get a "stunt ship" to fly them with precision. The biggest hurdle to get over is learning to fly inverted ,and you don't want to bury a stunt ship just learning the basic stuff. Just my opinion.....PhillySkip

You said it perfectly.  "My mentor back in the 60's told me that you learn inverted by stretching out a lazy 8 until you don't have to rebuild the Flight Streak"

Ken

[Fredvon4]

I see Kevin inquired to BYU about the Teosawki Fully assembled ...I think if they can hook up this is a sound solution to the stated desire