R/C Has Really Changed?

[Avaiojet]

I still have some R/C model stuff I'd like to get rid of so I went to the local R/C flying field.

I haven't visited there since 1996. Hard to believe but true.

Anyway, immediately I see there's absolutely no one there that would have interest in what I had, so I didn't show it.

ARF, ARF, more ARF and more ARF.

Plug n play foamies and more plug n play foamies.

And a place for drone guys. The back of the bus for them but at least they had a place.
Oh, the Drone guys were interesting and were eager to explained everything.

Everyone was friendly as can be for mid morning. Nothing going for me so I left.

Still having my model in the wagon, I'm guessing there may be more and different people there later in the day.

So, 5:50 I take the drive back to the field.

Place was empty except for two guys. I walked over and became a quite observer.

They had all kinds of electronics set up, consisted of small monitors on tripods, two of them with antennas and the second guy, sitting in a chair, had a VR Headset I believe they are called? The Drone guys have them so they can see through the camera lens on board as if they were in the cockpit.

This is new to me but I'm sure there's modelers who know exactly what I'm describing.

Anyway, the pilot, not the guy sitting, has this 30" or so foamy flying wing with a camera on board. Electric.

He says to the other guy, "How many satellites do we have?" other guy says "we have six."

Then the pilot mentions a frequency and the other guy goes to it, so he can see through the camera on board with his VR Headset. Now they can both see like they are in the model.

Pilot does a few things to the model then lets it go. Hand launch, he just tossed the thing.

Bored yet? Well listen up because the fun is about to begin. Well, I wouldn't call it fun.

Now the model is in the air, pilot does a pass or two just to see if the equipment is working properly.

The pilot's assistant says, you're just about 300 FT and 87mph, descending 200 and 110 mph. He also said the distance the model was from their setup, right to the foot. So I guess they were tied into GPS. He did mention six satellites.

Bam! The pilot points the model at 12'oclock and at 300 ft or so, the thing flies out of sight, gone?

Well, not really because they are "in" the model viewing. Both have these VR Headsets and they are exchanging conversation about stuff they can see.

"1.5 miles out," the guy says, by now they are 'sight seeing' through the camera on board.

I couldn't help myself so I asked the guy in the chair, "How do you get that thing back, fly it from the cockpit?"  He said, "No, it'll come back on it's own."

And the thing did! Finally large enough and close enough for the pilot to take control, he did say, "I'm flying it now." He put it back on the grass just about where he tossed the thing into the air to start his flight.

Is this the kind of activity that's taking place at R/C fields?

I'm taken back a bit because there's a few "what if's" here worth considering.

Charles





 

[Dan McEntee]

   Just where in the hell have you been? It is obvious that you never read anything else on this forum because this has been discussed at length during the threads about government intrusion into our hobby. This is exactly what we have been talking about and what is the real problem. This is called FPV or Forward Point Of View and a few other nick names. It is not allowed by the AMA at AMA sanctioned club fields per the current standards that the government wants to change unless the pilot/owner has a commercial rating and license. By current AMA rules all R/C operations at sanctioned fields must be "line of sight," meaning that the pilot must be able to see the model at all times. And you, the self proclaimed modeler of all modelers didn't question either of them on what they were doing and why?  Depending on their location to any local airports, they could have been a threat to local full size aircraft operations. I'm really surprised at you Chuck. Or maybe I shouldn't be?
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[john e. holliday]

The last time I went to the Shawnee Mission Park radio control site there were about half dozen guys there.  To were on the flight line flying some kind of 3D aerobatic foamy.   The rest were under the shelter.  I could not enter the area as I am not a club member I was told.  Told them I was a member a few years back.  That was end of conversation as the person went back to his chair.   So I watched for a few minutes and left as well as several other people that were there.    Haven't been to the Knorthern Knights field for years but see them once in a while and they ask why I haven't been out to fly.   Field is over 30+ miles one way.    The KCRC(Kansas City Radio Control) Club, one of the oldest in the country have set up an area for control line flyers and have had scheduled fun flies just for CL.   F2D two day competitions have been held there also.  The KCRC group is a great group of guys and have asked me to dust off my RC plane and fly with them as well as fly my CL planes.  But, then again it is a 30+ mile drive one way and I need park pass and membership in the club.   

[Brett Buck]

I'm really surprised at you Chuck. Or maybe I shouldn't be?

   By tomorrow, he will have invented it, and this will have been a test to see if the rest of us knew.

     Brett

[Dave Hull]

Yeah, they took the military UAV capabilities and morphed them into inexpensive, mass market RTF gear. And because it has 3-axis autopilot with GPS inputs, it does not require much in the way of piloting skills--it requires computer skills and some electronics skills. That is great, but it means there is little common ground to share between someone who wants to build--from wood and glass and metal--an aircraft and trim it to fly. That's sort of ok, too. Except that the capability of the autopilot/GPS equipped drone (whether quad-rotor, hex-rotor, or foamy-fixed) gives it too much potential for harm in the hands of the few.

What are the "What If's" it raised for you?

Did you ask them if they had a commercial operator's license? Were they vetted by the FAA/FBI? Or were they operating illegally?

Did they hear the facts about the guy in New York that flew out of sight, and collided with a Blackhawk helicopter operating in a TFR? Did they know that the FBI traced him after the collision and visited him at work the next day? "Interviewed" him? Confiscated his equipment? Do they know what it cost to repair the rotor and cockpit damage to the Blackhawk?

Did they know that one pilot is supposed to be on visual rules, if the other is on FPV goggles? Did they care, or are they counting on everyone else to see and avoid them? That is why they the FAA is seeking to change things. Every other flight operation--including our traditional R/C--operates under see and avoid. Except the military, who sanitize the airspace via flying in restricted airspace for which they have range control office and separate deconfliction procedures.

Until the dronies begin to understand the overall system, they will not understand why they get so much pushback. If they don't like the rules, they need to propose something that historically is at least as safe. I haven't heard any proposals like that, just attempts to avoid all restrictions. And since they have almost no skin in the game, they have little personal drive to get it right. For example, the guy that collided with the Blackhawk waited a half hour or so and when it did not automatically return, he packed up his stuff and drove home. He could order another one tomorrow.

Dave

[wwwarbird]

   By tomorrow, he will have invented it, and this will have been a test to see if the rest of us knew.

     Brett

 

[Target]

FPV stands for First Person View.

[Sean McEntee]

Sounds just like another day at work to me...

[Curare]

While you're all happy to beat up on Chuck, he does raise a good point.

R/C as it was 20, or even 10 years ago, is virtually unrecognisable to what it today. As he rightly points out, not just the "dronies" (I like that, I'm stealing it!) but fixed wing 'modellers' are simply going to the toy store, or hobbyking and buying a plug and play foamie, crashing, going to the store, buying another one, crashing that etc.

I occasionally fly next to guys like these. They absolutely WILL not accept advice on how to be better pilots (or in my opinion competent pilots) and want their models to do the work for them, anti crash technology, in flight stabilisation, GPS tracking and 'run home' capabilities are all needs for these guys. I'm sure that most of us can see where some of that would be nice, in emergencies or whatever, but these guys rely on it. I honestly question their ability to actually personally 'control' their aircraft.

I've been watching this accelerate for the past 5 years and earlier this year I was ready to leave the club (and almost the entire hobby), as I felt so disconnected from these knuckleheads that it was like talking to chimps about quantum mechanics.

It wasn't until it was pointed out to me that my hobby, which is building and flying miniature aircraft (either C/L or R/C), is markedly different to theirs, which seems to be buying and crashing airborne computers. Markedly different past-times, occurring at the same geographical location.  Its no different from flying a model at a schoolyard or baseball field - only that at the RC club, flying a built R/C model is now the exception, instead of the norm it once was.

With that said, I believe that R/C as many of us knew it is dead, and if not dead, it's certainly in palliative care. The question we as control line flyers should be asking ourselves is what effect the death of conventional R/C will have on us?

[Vitalis Pilkionis]

Recently we had a guy come to our CL club because RC had got to be BORING.  His words.

This is what exactly happened to me. After ~15 years of active flying in F3A, F6A and F3K, I started to feel like I miss something.
Now I still occationally fly my RC stuff and even participate in local competitions, but only if there are a few days off CL.

Vitalis

[GERALD WIMMER]

Hello
The R/C thing has changed so much and the arrival of the 'dronies' has wrecked its public image.
I stopped flying R/C nearly 10 years ago as I thought it would be a bad influence on my sons when they were just starting to learn control line.
Funny thing is I don't really miss it now (except perhaps flying between the trees at home with a 3D model which I admit is fun!).
The control line community is very stable here but at our last nationals I saw a real dip in the number of R/C flyers perhaps the new technology and drones are driving them away ?
Regards Gerald

[Tom Vieira]

....and now we see why the FAA feels the need to get involved...

but, R/c functions are largely cheating now, in my opinion.  all of these fail safes and such on models, it's nuts!  I learned to fly r/c helicopters on a Schluter Heli-Star with a "state of the art" rate gyro (read spinning brass discs!) and revo mixing.  no computer radios, all done mechanically and via pots in the radio!  This was even when piezo heading hold gyro's were coming about, but I didn't have the cash to afford the crazy toys, so I was learning on something my dad built in the 80's!  Somehow I never crashed that one, I'm shocked!

Balsa flies better!

[peabody]

The amazing thing that I find in RC is the incredible detail in Scale planes.
Even a $200 foamy, complete with servos and motor has detail to rivals the best modeler built scale models!
And they seem to fly real well

One of our new members is a retired Lt. Col that instructs a "drone" course at the local college, part of an aeronautics degree. Amazing stuff there, too.


Yet when we fly control line we always seem to draw spectators. And they are always amazed at the tricks and how close to the ground we fly....

I think One or two are ready to try the trainer


Have fun!

[GallopingGhostler]

"1.5 miles out," the guy says, by now they are 'sight seeing' through the camera on board. I couldn't help myself so I asked the guy in the chair, "How do you get that thing back, fly it from the cockpit?"  He said, "No, it'll come back on it's own." And the thing did! Finally large enough and close enough for the pilot to take control, he did say, "I'm flying it now." He put it back on the grass just about where he tossed the thing into the air to start his flight. Is this the kind of activity that's taking place at R/C fields? I'm taken back a bit because there's a few "what if's" here worth considering.

The technology itself has added a wonderful new dimension only previously available through general aviation helicopters, as a stable camera platform for observation. I've watched some of the fantastic videos produced from such drones. Also, it provides greater safety for first responders in ascertaining situational safety and scope where the circumstances may otherwise result in possible injury or death. A several thousand dollar drone is more expendable than a million dollar aircraft and the lives on board.

Regarding hobbyist use, reference: AMA Document #550, Unmanned Aircraft Operation Utilizing First-Person View

www.modelaircraft.org/files/550.pdf

General rules for sUAS operations

c) AMA pilots, when flying sUAS either manually or utilizing FPV, stabilization, or autopilot systems for automated flight, must at all times maintain the sUAS within VLOS.

VLOS = Visual Line Of Sight.

For what it's worth, GPS is not VLOS. If this was operated from an AMA member club as hobbyists and they are not maintaining VLOS, they are not in compliance with AMA rules nor the law.

[john e. holliday]

Sounds just like another day at work to me...

And you get underpaid for what you do.  Glad you are on our side.   

[Terrence Durrill]

The last time I went to the Shawnee Mission Park radio control site there were about half dozen guys there.  To were on the flight line flying some kind of 3D aerobatic foamy.   The rest were under the shelter.  I could not enter the area as I am not a club member I was told.  Told them I was a member a few years back.  That was end of conversation as the person went back to his chair.   So I watched for a few minutes and left as well as several other people that were there.    Haven't been to the Knorthern Knights field for years but see them once in a while and they ask why I haven't been out to fly.   Field is over 30+ miles one way.    The KCRC(Kansas City Radio Control) Club, one of the oldest in the country have set up an area for control line flyers and have had scheduled fun flies just for CL.   F2D two day competitions have been held there also.  The KCRC group is a great group of guys and have asked me to dust off my RC plane and fly with them as well as fly my CL planes.  But, then again it is a 30+ mile drive one way and I need park pass and membership in the club.   

                                               John.............to fly control line at the NKC RC FIELD......you need an AMA MEMBERSHIP, A PARK PASS AND A CLUB MEMBERSHIP with the Northern Knights R/C Club ?  ...........  No wonder there are few, if any, new control line fliers showing up to fly.  Even the old fliers like you, and yes like me are being legislated out of the hobby by the RED TAPE being put up between us and the flying field.  It is a sad time in the world of Control line, but isn't every day in real life  becoming the same thing ?  Thank God for President Donald J. Trump.  He may give us some small relief from the regulation and red tape before the Democrats succeed in destroying him and HIS / OUR agenda for this country.  ......  And oh yes, don't forget to vote November 6th.  ...       

[FLOYD CARTER]

Or, you can just ignore what the rest of the world is doing.  I occasionally build and fly R/C.  I build my own stuff; mostly old time free flight models with R/C assist so that I don't have to chase them to recover.

I would not do this, except that R/C now uses 2.4 GHz radios, which are very reliable and inexpensive.

Let the others fly RTF all they want.  None of this bothers me.

[Brett Buck]

With that said, I believe that R/C as many of us knew it is dead, and if not dead, it's certainly in palliative care. The question we as control line flyers should be asking ourselves is what effect the death of conventional R/C will have on us?

     Not much, I suspect.

    This sort of degeneration is what we have been fighting with the "participation" and "grow the hobby" types for years. They way they want to proceed is to ape the same degeneration as RC, into hordes of buy-and-fly morons and continual turnover of new guys, essentially, an eternal cycle of beginners. Someone is making a lot of money off of it (someone in China, for the most part).

    Every event that tried this ended up in the same boat - dead - including RC, very rapidly.  Of course, there are a few who want to change the competition rules (which have nothing to do with this), because of a few people wanting to sell small numbers of very expensive models to people for the NATs. The fake populists adopted the RC approach because claiming to be "for the regular modeler"  makes a much better argument.

     Brett

[Joe Ed Pederson]

One of the reasons you won't find many fliers at an RC club field is the explosion of electric park flyer models - models that are quiet enough, light enough, and fly slowly enough to fly safely in a much smaller open area than RC models with .40 and up size engines.  If your RC models can be flown at the city park, you don't have to join a club or join the AMA.  I can walk to the end of my street (200 yards) and fly some of my foam board (Flite Test) RC models in the unused lots that may someday have two houses.

One of the reasons CL was so big in the past, was, like modern electric RC park flyers today, there were often many places close by that you could fly your CL models.  I've given thought to building an electric CL model in the .15 nitro size range because it would open up more flying sites near my house. 

 I went to our city park last night and couldn't fly because the recent rains (Cuba, Missouri) had prompted the grass to grow about 3".  I'm thinking of going to the city and asking if I can mow my flying circle, but I'm mindful of something I learned in the Army: "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."  And now a pee wee football team is practicing on MY flying field at the city park from 5:00 to 7:00 pm, Mon, Tues, Thurs.    But at least I have a place locally that I can fly.

I joined the Lafayette Escadrille CL club in St. Louis, and I pay the $30.00 county (?) fee, because I look forward to flying at an excellent field from time to time (70 mile drive, one way) and joining others for fun, contests, and (hopefully) some coaching.  The benefits of belonging to a club are worth it to me.

Bottom line: having a place close by to fly is an important factor for the hobby, whether RC, CL, or FF. 

Joe Ed Pederson
AMA 103434

[Andre Ming]

Well, bad as we hate to face it...

Times change. What it is now, is not what it will be. It will continue to change.

I'm not as hopeful about a renaissance of C/L flying as I used to be. Kind of hate to admit it, but I think the prevailing attitude here has affected me.

I'm still hoping to fly some more C/L, but frankly, my impetus to do so just isn't there, and hasn't been for quite some time now.

And, continuing to speak candidly, I also admit that it could be tempting to give R/C another try with all the cool RTR's that are available. I think it could sort of be relaxing to fly a slow flying electric WW1 aircraft about. I was almost "there" a few years ago (i.e. "there" - the basic ability to at least fly a WW1 R/C plane), but I just never mustered up the courage it took to take the plunge needed to make the transition from my 3 channel trainer to aileron models... so I got bored and R/C fizzled out on me.

Bottom line:

The demographics are changing. It will never be what it was. What is now, is what it is... but that will change. We can either:

1. Deal with it and enjoy what you can out of the hobby.

2. Leave the hobby.

3. Get so foul-spirited you're miserable, and you end up making others around you miserable. (In this case, see point 2 and do it for the good of those that remain.)

Of course, all of the above is simply my current perception/opinion and is certainly a "FWIW" (not much) deal.

Andre

[Skip Chernoff]

I've been flying R/C since 1969. I'm presently the "safety officer" for Northeast Phila. Radio Control Club the only R/C club within Philadelphia's city boundaries. We fly at Benjamin Rush State Park,this is also the home of Philly Fliers Control Line Club.
At our field "drones" are not allowed to be flown via FPV.They must not exceed 400' of altitude,and are not allowed to be operated when other pilots are flying fixed wing aircraft. The drone operators must have AMA as well.
Yes, R/C has changed.At our field 99% of the models flown are ARF or foamies  constructed out of flat foam board. There are a few "old timers" like myself who still bring either scratch built or kit built models to the field ,but very few. There are virtually no young people coming out to learn how to build or fly model airplanes.I have no accurate data on this,but I'm guessing the average age of the folks at our field is at least 60 years old.

The only "competition" that occurs at our field is an R/C Pylon Racing Series called Club 40 where we get about 12 racers for 6 events. All planes are LA40 ARFs. The other event is the Philly Fliers C/L Stunt Meet which is very successful,and supported by the R/C club.

I for one, miss the old R/C days of enjoying the models that others and myself built and brought to the field with pride that we spent months or years to complete.

The only folks really building models at our field ......are the control line guys!

I will say this....it seems that most R/C guys at the field do enjoy their foamies.....it's just not my thing.....Skip

[Gerald Arana]

I've been flying R/C since 1969. I'm presently the "safety officer" for Northeast Phila. Radio Control Club the only R/C club within Philadelphia's city boundaries. We fly at Benjamin Rush State Park,this is also the home of Philly Fliers Control Line Club.
At our field "drones" are not allowed to be flown via FPV.They must not exceed 400' of altitude,and are not allowed to be operated when other pilots are flying fixed wing aircraft. The drone operators must have AMA as well.
Yes, R/C has changed.At our field 99% of the models flown are ARF or foamies  constructed out of flat foam board. There are a few "old timers" like myself who still bring either scratch built or kit built models to the field ,but very few. There are virtually no young people coming out to learn how to build or fly model airplanes.I have no accurate data on this,but I'm guessing the average age of the folks at our field is at least 60 years old.

The only "competition" that occurs at our field is an R/C Pylon Racing Series called Club 40 where we get about 12 racers for 6 events. All planes are LA40 ARFs. The other event is the Philly Fliers C/L Stunt Meet which is very successful,and supported by the R/C club.

I for one, miss the old R/C days of enjoying the models that others and myself built and brought to the field with pride that we spent months or years to complete.

The only folks really building models at our field ......are the control line guys!

I will say this....it seems that most R/C guys at the field do enjoy their foamies.....it's just not my thing.....Skip

Hi Skip,

Foamies Hummm? Well I'll say this; they fly very good (for the guy who doesn't/can't build his own plane) But! And that is a BIG BUT! They all look the same......well almost.

When I was in competition (serious) I always took pride in designing/building my own ships because NOBODY else had that exact one! And I could get ahead of the crowd with airfoil, span etc., etc.

I'm currently building a couple RC planes. Yep, something only I'll have!

Cheers Jerry

PS: Enjoy the hobby as long as God permits!

[Matt Brown]

I’m in the minority I guess. Pretty much if it flies, I like it! I’ve not been very active this past year due to our house fire. However, I’ve attended three helicopter events, many fpv quad races, three 3D profile events as well as flew control line stunt at the Nats and the FCM contest.
Nothing is like it was! Time, technology and people move on. Sometimes people refuse to acknowledge or embrace newer technology. I’ve been told that my electric Twister isn’t really flying because it’s electric! It was an old guy stuck in his ways. Still ticked me off!
My Rc club while not super active has a good mix of arfs, kit built and foamies. I happily have a mixture myself.
As long as you’re having a good time and not hurting anyone, enjoy it!

Matt

[Skip Chernoff]

Jerry,while not my thing I have to agree with Peabody as to accuracy and terrific flying ability of these "scale" foamies (especially the electric jets) that are at our field everyday. They are inexpensive and they work.One of the things that the guys at our field really enjoy is designing and building electric powered "stuff" out of the foam board. I even built one,but rarely fly it. It's too ugly!

Since I got back in C/L three years ago I've done very little R/C building.Most of my building time is on "Stunt Ships" One of these days I'll finish up my R/C Giant  Meister Scale 100" Bf109.....she's about 90% done

Anyway, yes.... the hobby has changed dramatically,but as long as folks are having fun that's all that matters Fraternally,Skip

[Gerald Arana]

Jerry,while not my thing I have to agree with Peabody as to accuracy and terrific flying ability of these "scale" foamies (especially the electric jets) that are at our field everyday. They are inexpensive and they work.One of the things that the guys at our field really enjoy is designing and building electric powered "stuff" out of the foam board. I even built one,but rarely fly it. It's too ugly!

Since I got back in C/L three years ago I've done very little R/C building.Most of my building time is on "Stunt Ships" One of these days I'll finish up my R/C Giant  Meister Scale 100" Bf109.....she's about 90% done

Anyway, yes.... the hobby has changed dramatically,but as long as folks are having fun that's all that matters Fraternally,Skip

Amen!

[Vincent Judd]

I'm afraid it's true, our hobby (RC/CL) is definitely changing.  The days of cutting out parts by hand and gluing them together with good old Ambroid glue are long gone.  They've been replaced by a ton of mass manufactured RTF airplanes that come to your doorstep directly from China.  No one builds RC airplanes anymore, especially the few young kids that are even interested in the hobby.  If they crash, they just buy a new one because they have no clue how to repair the broken pieces.

Drones and FPV seem to be taking over.  They're here to stay unless one of these knuckleheads does something really stupid like cause problems with an airliner or something, then we're all in big trouble 'cause we'll be lumped in with them.  Check your TV guide, there are a bunch of Drone racing shows on TV now, it's very popular.  We're a dying breed.  Once we're gone, the hobby is in dire straits and the sad thing is, other than us, no one cares.  It'll be disposable planes with disposable pilots who lose interest and quickly move on to the next fad.

I've flown RC for almost 20 years now.  I fly something called 3D, which is not your typical "take off, fly around in a circle and land" type of RC flying.  It's exciting, on the edge, and full of risks.  I used to build all my planes, most of them would take months.  Now i can plop down my credit card and get a fabulous ARF airplane for $300.  Built, covered, ready to go.  Latest technology, laser cut parts, just put the electronics in it and go fly.  Light, straight, beautifully covered.  Why build anymore?  If I crash it, which does happen, it's not 6 months worth of hard work down the drain.  I do have an advantage, I can fix my broken stuff and have done that frequently.

My buddy just purchased an F-14 made out of molded foam.  The thing is gorgeous.  Electric ducted fans, fabulous detail, retracts, wings move in and out just like the real one.  It most likely would have taken him a couple of years, maybe more, to build a model anywhere close to this thing.  Hopefully, this infusion of foam RTF airplanes will at least keep our hobby alive for the near future, but again, I'm not seeing many kids show any interest. 

The future of our hobby looks cloudy from my vantage point.

[Jim Kraft]

I have never enjoyed flying anything I did not build. It seems pointless to me. I started flying control line when I was 10 or 11 years old. Quit for a few years and then took it up again in after marriage. I have been a lifer for the most part. Started Flying R/C pattern in the late 60's. Flew that until 94. Started flying control line again in 92. I stopped flying all together a couple of year ago because of health problems. I have had a bad back for the last 20 years, but was able to live with it long enough to get in a flight. Then I got polymyalgia rheumatica, and was on high dose of Prednisone for over a year. My back has never recovered.

I was flying old time free flights with a radio along with control line stunt. But just have not had the desire to go fly since I got off the cortisone. All the guys in the Salina club have gone to flying either giant R/C, or small arfs. I just do not fit in anywhere. It is just short of 30 miles to the club field. My granddaughter has a large farm about 8 miles from me that I may go fly at if my back continues to get better.

I do still love refurbishing old ignition engines, and that has kept me having fun with that part of the hobby. Thinking about building my own tether car. Just a for fun project to use some of my collection of like new Anderson Spitfires, Super Cyclones, Atwood Super Champions, and one Orwick.

Everything has changed so much over the last 30 years. When I started flying R/C pattern, I designed and built most of my planes. My last one was a kit. It got to be a money game and I got tired of it as most were flying planes they bought ready to fly. And computer radios were taking the skill out of flying and making it a programing  process.

Guess I am getting old. I have a basement full of planes and memories. I am thankful I was able to participate during the years I did. Remember the two NATS I attended. Olathe, Kansas, and Lincoln Nebraska. One Navy NATS. What a hoot that was.

We just lost our local hobby shop, Dons Hobbies in Salina Kansas. If  we are not regulated out of our hobby over the next year or two, I will be surprised. I do believe the SAM guys are still doing pretty well, but they are all old guys also. I just can not get excited about electric motors flying anythng. I have flown a few to trim out for others, but they do nothing for me. So much for my rambling on about nothing. Just a little of my own experience in the Hobby the way it use to be. FUN.

[Gerald Arana]

I'm afraid it's true, our hobby (RC/CL) is definitely changing.  The days of cutting out parts by hand and gluing them together with good old Ambroid glue are long gone.  They've been replaced by a ton of mass manufactured RTF airplanes that come to your doorstep directly from China.  No one builds RC airplanes anymore,......

Really Vincent?! Why don't you go back and reread my other post. There are "LOTS" of us that still like to build our own aircraft.

And if you are a competitor in CL stunt, you have to build your own plane to get appearance points!

Cheers, Jerry

[phil c]

This is what exactly happened to me. After ~15 years of active flying in F3A, F6A and F3K, I started to feel like I miss something.
Now I still occationally fly my RC stuff and even participate in local competitions, but only if there are a few days off CL.

Vitalis

Guess I'm fortunate.  The RC club I belong to is only 5mi. away.  I don't have an RC plane ready, but for their fun flys they invited us CL junkies out to put in a couple of demo combat matches and some stunt flights.  Lots of reminiscing about CL.  Several have CL planes and come out to fly with us occasionally.  They just built a small car/truck track.  Half the RC guys fly FPV by the AMA rules, with a spotter.  Quite a few large 3D planes.  Lots of little gliders, with and without FPV.  Quite a few drones to, both flyable ones and computer controlled via gps, but they keep them within sight.  Mainly for finding downed planes nearby.

There are a couple of drone racing clubs nearby.  They have regular get togethers, but actually fly races.  That looks like a lot of fun.  Both time trials and 3-4 at a time.

It's a good bunch.

[944_Jim]

I'd like to see FPV car/truck racing. I've watched Shugemery's FPV CL flying, and some model railroad FPV. The technology is pretty neat, but I doubt my 1/2A stuff could carry it.

[Matt Brown]

I'd like to see FPV car/truck racing. I've watched Shugemery's FPV CL flying, and some model railroad FPV. The technology is pretty neat, but I doing my 1/2A stuff could carry it.

I have a tiny camera/video transmitter that’s probably under 15 grams with a battery. They only cost about $20!

Matt

[Dwayne]

I’m in the minority I guess. Pretty much if it flies, I like it! I’ve not been very active this past year due to our house fire. However, I’ve attended three helicopter events, many fpv quad races, three 3D profile events as well as flew control line stunt at the Nats and the FCM contest.
Nothing is like it was! Time, technology and people move on. Sometimes people refuse to acknowledge or embrace newer technology. I’ve been told that my electric Twister isn’t really flying because it’s electric! It was an old guy stuck in his ways. Still ticked me off!
My Rc club while not super active has a good mix of arfs, kit built and foamies. I happily have a mixture myself.
As long as you’re having a good time and not hurting anyone, enjoy it!

Matt

^^^This^^^ I fly pretty much everything you can think of, I have r/c arfs , built indoor outdoor rubber power, indoor r/c that include all those little fomies. quads and helicopters, I fly c/l sport, stunt, combat and just finished a 1/3rd scale Fokker DVIII, if it fly's I enjoy it.

Maybe shouldn't post this on a c/l site but it's my first giant scale build and  I'm way proud of it.  \
\

[944_Jim]

I have a tiny camera/video transmitter that’s probably under 15 grams with a battery. They only cost about $20!

Matt

Hi Matt,
Can you point me to one?
TIA

[Matt Brown]

I have a tiny camera/video transmitter that’s probably under 15 grams with a battery. They only cost about $20!

Matt

Hopefully this link works!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253379962309

[john e. holliday]

Dwayne that does look like a fun plane to fly.  My favorite was flying gliders with a power pod or Hi-Start to get to altitude.   At the Shawnee Park , the old one I would fly or try to fly formation with the hawks we had at the park.   I remember one of our guys would get his glider to altitude and lay down in the grass with a pillow and fly.  Some of the guys complained we took up too much air time.  Remember the frequencies we used.   So we flew when no body else was around.  Advantage of working night shift, could fly while every body else was working.  But I'm back to CL and having fun trying stuff that some say don't work.  Made additions to my stooge for the combat wings.  Who says you get dizzy while flying control line.  On one flight I only made a couple of level laps and then it was loops, wingovers and 8's until the engine went silent.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Off topic, a little bit. 

It's fun to take a break from C/L stunt and enjoy some slow-flying R/C.

Here is an old 1940 design free fli9ght called "Peerless Panther".  Electric power and R/C guided.

The R/C is mainly to keep it from getting lost.

[Jim Kraft]

Here is couple of mine. Playboy Sr. with an Ohlsson 60 in this picture, and the Lanzo Bomber with an Ohlsson 23.

[Vincent Judd]

I'm afraid it's true, our hobby (RC/CL) is definitely changing.  The days of cutting out parts by hand and gluing them together with good old Ambroid glue are long gone.  They've been replaced by a ton of mass manufactured RTF airplanes that come to your doorstep directly from China.  No one builds RC airplanes anymore,......

Really Vincent?! Why don't you go back and reread my other post. There are "LOTS" of us that still like to build our own aircraft.

And if you are a competitor in CL stunt, you have to build your own plane to get appearance points!

Cheers, Jerry

Doggone it Jerry, you got me.  My bad.  I honestly have no interest in going back to read your previous posts.  What I meant to say was that my observations are that at my local field, and only my local field, from January 1 through September 20, 2018, my observations are that the ARF's outnumbered the home built airplanes by approximately (please notice I'm saying approximately) 30 to 1.  I want to go on record as stating that I do not have actual numbers to back that statement up.  I never meant to imply that "no one" was building RC planes anymore, I know that's not true.  I can only blame that stupid statement on an extremely hot, humid day in the Florida sun playing golf and then hours spent practicing again in the hot Florida sun with our golf cart precision drill team, followed by a couple of hours of cut throat shuffleboard, pickleball, and then some water polo.  Please accept my most humble apologies, I think I fell victim to temporary insanity.  The sun can play cruel tricks on your mind.

And yes, of course, IF you happen to be flying in a control line contest that awards appearance points, you must have built your own airplane, unless of course you can convince everyone that your Yatsenko is something that you built and painted in your basement.   

Cheers back.  Vince

[Frank Imbriaco]

In addition to all previous comments/observations, allow me to add another.
One that few expected - flying restrictions on R/C flying during the last 8-10 years. Courtesy of the FAA and Secret Service; with questionable input from the AMA.
In Central  New Jersey , we have it pretty bad. When the President is here( very often June-Sept.) , R/C fields in a 50 mile radius are shut down 3-4 days during that particular week and since he's come to office,2-3 weeks straight when he has his summer vacation. I don't fault the President.
Four of us fly control line(R/C,too) at an R/C field , so we're s.o.l. during prime season.

[Gerald Arana]

H Vincent,

I didn't mean to "get" you, I was just making a tongue-n-cheek remark. 

I know what you mean though, there are about 10 to 1 foamies at our field because my buddy, another flyer and myself are the builders of our own ships.

Times they are a changing (as far as modeling goes) and they aren't necessarily for the better AFAIC!

Cheers, Jerry

[Dwayne]

H Vincent,

I didn't mean to "get" you, I was just making a tongue-n-cheek remark. 

I know what you mean though, there are about 10 to 1 foamies at our field because my buddy, another flyer and myself are the builders of our own ships.

Times they are a changing (as far as modeling goes) and they aren't necessarily for the better AFAIC!

Cheers, Jerry

As long as they pay club dues I have no problem with foamies or what ever else anyone wants to fly, anything that keeps my club alive so I can keep doing what I want is never a bad thing.

[Shug Emery]

I had some fun with foamies before i got back into CL as I was getting back into RC.
Then I joined an RC club. No CL flying there.
Eventually gave up RC to concentrate on CL flying. Never looked back...yet.
Shug

[FLOYD CARTER]

Looks like a baseball field, and no one is playing baseball!  Amazing!

That doesn't happen around here.

[Roy DeCamara]

Hey Floyd and Jim!!  Those are really pretty models.  The Playboy in flight is lovely.  What I call real model aviation.

Jerry, be careful with those tongue-in-check comments------pisses some people off you know.   

[Dwayne]

Dwayne that does look like a fun plane to fly. My favorite was flying gliders with a power pod or Hi-Start to get to altitude.   At the Shawnee Park , the old one I would fly or try to fly formation with the hawks we had at the park.   I remember one of our guys would get his glider to altitude and lay down in the grass with a pillow and fly.  Some of the guys complained we took up too much air time.  Remember the frequencies we used.   So we flew when no body else was around.  Advantage of working night shift, could fly while every body else was working.  But I'm back to CL and having fun trying stuff that some say don't work.  Made additions to my stooge for the combat wings.  Who says you get dizzy while flying control line.  On one flight I only made a couple of level laps and then it was loops, wingovers and 8's until the engine went silent.

It has a big wing so it fly's like a big park flier.  Unfortunately having such a short nose it has a ton of lead in the nose to balance it,  you need to be very careful when landing or it will nose over every time..lol 

[Hemi Steve]

Lots of good discussion here.  Yes , r/c has changed a lot over the years.  I started r/c in 1959 with vacuum tube technology.  The r/c technology available today is astounding.  I belong to an r/c club that has 220 members.  The club has been around for about 40 years.  in the beginning there were no drones, fpv, arf's, or foamies.  You had to build your models.  most of the guys back then started in control line and knew how to build.  but things changed along with the pace and complexity of our lives and our society.  Guys no longer knew how to build models or even wanted to as the necessity went away.  The Hobby has changed and adapted to the wants of the customers.  Technology has exploded not necessarily due to some recognized demand but because it can and probably must to keep the dollars flowing to support the manufacturers. Arf's and foamies have come a long way to the point that they are better than most of the guys who still build can duplicate.  on top of that, they are inexpensive for what they are and they really fly nice for the most part.  In my opinion, without all of this, r/c airplanes would be a dying hobby. In my opinion it is in fact dying but at a slower rate. We are all getting older and eventually won't be able to fly r/c some time in the future.  We have a few young members in our club but not enough to fill in where older members are actually dying.  Our biggest growth is from guys who are retiring and looking for a hobby.  We have an annual event where we invite a number of cub scout packs to the field and we have a half dozen simulators running and we have our instructors set up with trainers and buddy boxes. There are lines if kids wanting to use the simulators and only a handful of kids wanting to fly an actual model.  Times are changing and what kids are interested in is changing as well. 

As for control line, I flew ukies back in the 50's and transitioned into r/c in 1959.  Two years ago I got to the r/c field early one day and one of our members was there alone flying a control line model using a stooge.  The memories flooded back and I'm back into it.  Last year we flew off of the r/c runway and the members were tolerant of us shutting down the r/c flying for a few minutes. It was interesting how many guys had never seen a control line plane fly and were amazed by the aerobatic capability.  Anyway,  I didn't see that tolerance lasting for a long time so two of us (we are both on the board of directors) proposed building a control line field on the opposite side of the parking lot away from the r/c traffic.  We proposed the new field would be for control line, helicopters, multi rotor, and fpv.  This would be a good thing for everyone.  We had a number of work parties to convert the plowed farm land into a flat rock free area.  We planted grass last spring and its getting better each week.  The club has sponsored 2 control line flying events where we had 3 circles on the r/c runway. The events drew about 2 dozen fliers and maybe 30 airplanes.  We have agreed to make it an annual event now based on the successes we have had. We do control line demos at most of our regular r/c events and get a lot of positive feedback. We have 2 new control line flyers coming from the r/c group and we get together and fly on the new control line circle on Wed evening during our r/c student night and pot luck dinner.   I can say however that if there were no arf's available this probably would not have happened.

I was surprised to find that 2 other clubs in the general area have control line fields set up and a few fliers.  I'm not saying that there is a big control line resurgence going on but every little bit helps.  For me, I'm thankful that I am now able to fly control line again with a few other like minded people.  I'm thankful that my club leadership is open minded enough to support us and not say "this is an r/c club, no control line flying".

Steve

I am now flying more control line than r/c and if I'm honest with myself I'm enjoying it more

[De Hill]

Hi Stephen,

Where are you located?

What is the name of your club?

[John Gluth]

Changed to accommodate seekers of instant gratification. Only builders enjoy, can't be bought, satisfaction seeing their patiently handmade creation fly. RC, if is still a hobby at all, has become flyers not modelers. At the local empty lot here, 95% ARF, RTF, and drone toys, I was criticized for safe/conservative LiPo battery care. Couldn't understand why I "waste my time" building! Feel fortunate just to know some of you SKILLED builder craftsmen in our controline hobby 
John

[Hemi Steve]

De Hill
Hi
I'm in Oakland, MI and my club is the Skymasters  http://www.skymasters.org/ located in Lake Orion, MI.  Go to the website it's pretty good as things like that go.  We publish a pretty decent monthly newsletter.  I write a monthly column called "Some Assembly Required".  I write about building and finishing models.  I'm currently working on a series of articles that tries to demystify the aerodynamics of r/c airplanes and how to design your own model based on the simplified aerodynamics.  Some of my past articles dealt with the construction of control line models (a Brodak Accentor for example) and then an article on building an Accentor as an r/c plane.  Plus a bunch of other topics. 

Steve

[Chris McMillin]

Every poster here that says there is no one building R/C models isn't seeing the reality of the local R/C scene accurately. Anywhere. Every single time I go to the R/C field (except the electric field) I see models that are balsa builds. Usually from the plethora of kits available. Gas engined models are really popular as the rise in small to medium sized gas engine become available.

FVP is legal with a spotter as long as it's flown line of sight.

Park Zone T-28 , 3S Lipo powered models are really easy to fly in a park or school yard without making people mad, and since they are quiet they don't seem to have the same effect on the neighbors as did glow powered models. My brother in law flies in the baseball field of the high school as long as there is no one playing, they don't care. He's asked me to build up an ARF Nobler electric for him (he doesn't have the room or time to build a stunter) so he can practice before work. If they can't hear it it's not there kind of thing.

I can fly my Radian power glider easily off of my street and no one would know, it's so quiet and flies along with the motor shut off for a longtime so no one would notice it.

I don't have a quad or a FPV model, I don't like them and think they are the tech that will get modeling the most restrictions but at the fields I fly operators have to conform to the rules.

There is a whole world of R/C and C/L models and modeling out there that is happening that many old timers don't know about and for those of us that longed for Cox, Aurora, Wen Mac, Comet, plastic RTF's as children because they looked so cool, the foam scale models available are a grown up version of that. They are light, fly well, and over the last 15 years have evolved into reliable and well built models. A big part of the hobby is custom paint schemes like plastic modeling. Airbrush skills and latex, acrylic and other modeling paints are used for finishing and Callie Graphics sell myriad markings in different scales to serve that need. Friends of mine call this the golden age of modeling! The very last model my dad flew was a Park Zone T-28, for those getting older and can't walk so well, hang on to the stunter anymore, etc, it's a nice alternative.

The unmuffled McCoy 40 and Dooling 29 will have to be flown at the dedicated C/L site, guys. It's nothing new, been that way for half a century now. Dyna Jets at the park are those cool stories from my dad in the mid 50's, just like buying ether from the drug store to make diesel. Don't be so surprised about reality.

Tomorrow I'll go fly Stunt with the old codgers at 6:30 and listen to some of this stuff posted here, but I'll say to them, "Hey, Whitely and I are going to the electric field and shoot landings for a while after it gets too windy for you guys." Most modelers can and have flown at least two of the three major modeling disciplines and if one wants to fly models there are lots of way to do it and more stuff available to do it with... it's just not at the just-closed hobby shop anymore... Brodak is so many of you guys savior, there are 10 times as many of him in RC and FF.

Chris...