Carbon fiber Composite IMAPCT

[jose modesto]

 A couple of photos of my composite Impact fuselage and stab
fuse weight after wing cut out 5.3oz with out firewall or battery mount
Stab 2.2oz including diagonal ribs and balsa hinge mounts.
Jose Modesto

[Jim Oliver]

Jose,

Slickity!!

Jim

[frank williams]

Very Nice Job

[SteveMoon]

THAT IS AWESOME!! Very slick Jose, I really like to see people try
different things like this.

Later, Steve

[Steve Fitton]

Is this the one you've been working on so long?  Didn't you have the molds in the back of your car at Brodaks one time?
The finished product looks awesome, then, I see you have gone to the dark side and made it.....electric?

Kidding aside, I hope it flys great.  You gonna take it to Brodaks or Muncie this summer?

[jose modesto]

 Thanks guys. Working on wing its in the Bag right now.
I made my first all composite model in 2002 i called it the Impact Master combination Impact and Patternmaster
look at  my new Impact Master 2009 it uses a carbonfiber fuse with Hunt foam wing and is takeapart just like the impact and i used the 92 impact stab and elevator next model will use composite stab and elevator.
I have been working with Bob Hunt he made the wing plug(foam wing 2lb foam with molded leading edge and he carved the tips out of blue foam. Stab plug made by Tom Morris out of pine,fuselage made by Dale and Derrick Barry) this is a team effort as i have become allergic to Balsa and CA and this is a way for me to continue to build. I finish all components and create the female molds  and then cast the pieces.
The fuse combines the Al Rabe molded balsa(core) and vaccumbagg systems 1/32" balsa core
see photos
I included photos of the 2002/2003 Impact Master

[jose modesto]

Additional photos Impact Master Srike

[Derek Barry]

Wuzzup Jose!

 That stuff looks great!

[Osni Renato]

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!
Very good work! Congratulations!
What is the weight of the parts and the finished model!
Thanks
Regards

[Matt Colan]

Wow, lots of projects you got going on Jose and they look great!!!  What happened to your Shark that I saw in 2008?

[jose modesto]

The Impact Master uses a carbonfiiber composite fuse with Hunt foam wing and 92 Impact stab and elevator (Howard provided numbers for stab) construction photos attached. weight 63oz
The Impact fuse 6.5 oz for electric no formers after wing. for IC 8oz ready for installation NOTE: half of finish on fuse at these weights.
The current composite Impact for electric power projected at 62oz
Fuse=6.2oz i was able to reduce weight by another .3oz
Stab Elevator= 3.5oz
Wing with flaps=16oz
landing gear 3.5oz
these weights include finish up to primer. or if electric GO FLY.
The current projects are all composites Impact, SV22, Saturn,and patternmaster
Saturn= Bob Hunt has constructed all components IE:Wing, Fuse,Stab,Elevator.  Hunts shaping of fuse is a work of art
SV22= Hunt wing, Tom Morris Stab,My fuselage(Hunt creating new fuse)
Impact= Hunt Wing,Dale and Derrick Fuse,Tom Morris Stab
Pattern Master= Hunt wing,Stab,Elevator,Fuse  this model is for the fall.
Attached a couple of additional photos
Patternmaster= Hunt wing,

[jose modesto]

additional photos
1) Neal Beekman's LJ Hawk (the Cardinal Killer)all vaccum bagged composite construction this is a modified Big Jim high aspect ratio design The idea of this model to create a profile with solid motor run it was made with Mr. Sleepy in mind as i was frustrated with his engine run and thought of this (RABE MUSTUNT)
2) Neal's Jet's Hawk the first built up composite wing
3)My Hawk LJ design by Big Jim Composite foam wing(no wood used for sheeting of wing or stab) composite fiberglass cloth  and .5 carbon fiber mat over uncored foam  in Mylar envelope wing Cored after vaccum bagging. Objective= cheap composite model
4) I was not satisfied with weight of wings so i developed what i call the composite millennium wing(a takeoff on Tom Morris Millennium wing.These wings include molded tips and leading edges.
Matt the Shark for you
Josemodesto

[William DeMauro]

Jose,
Looks great!!  When do I get to see these in person? Better yet when can I fly them? Lets get together soon. I especially cant wait to see that SV22.
William

[jose modesto]

William the Fuse and Stab are completed and one half of wing for your Electric SV22 are completed. willie if all goes well the wing should be finished by this weekend Feb.7Th
your fuse and wing have the wood exterior the stab is cardon fiber cloth exterior.At this point you may have to shape a set of foam flaps an i will make a composite of Fglass and carbon matt( Hunt will make the flap plug soon)
since it will be electric we can fly them with out the final finish.
I have not cut the wing  area out of fuse i thought i would leave that for you in case you wanted to shorten nose depending on battery weightattached a couple of photos of the SV22 wing plug and Impact foam plug as received from Hunt.
One photo of electric fuse cowl.
Willie i will see you in a week with a gift package>

[john e. holliday]

Such beautiful work.  What are your molds made of?  Back when I was trying F2C we used casting plaster for molds.  A lot of work to get light fuselages with a little work.

[jose modesto]

Doc i use various materials for molds
1( fiberglass cloth and epoxy
2) tooling resin a two part product by Aeresoce Composites
3) various rubber products by Smoth-on
for wings i like Epoxy and glass cloth(they are large and can be mde relatively inexpensive)
for fuse Tooling Resin
For wheel pants and separate cowls Rubber
Jose

[Kim Doherty]

Jose,

I am so impressed with your work! Really leading edge stuff     

Kim.

[Osni Renato]

Hello Jose 
Just curious how much it will cost a kit like this?
I wonder what price.
Regards

[jose modesto]

Kim From you is an honor, thanks .My Impact is patterend after your model with the same Motor,ESC and Batteries thank you for leading the way. the only difference is the timer I have the Hubin and Zigras
as you can see my front end is a direct copy of yours I even tried to copy the battery compartment
Kim thanks again for leading the way.
I cant wait for the faster servos to come along so that indoor systemcan be flown outside.
I was impressed by your profile Saturn at Brodack's some years back.
Jose Modesto

[Dennis Adamisin]

Jose

Just an AWESOME body of work - the total package.  Nice design details too - Nose cone style cowls are great for ECL.  Keep us posted on the progress!

[William DeMauro]

Jose,
No need to rush my stuff. I have a huge unplanned project going on on the house right now. My modeling time will be very limited for the next month or so. As long as I know in advance I will break away make some time for both you and Ron to get the power packages setup in your planes. I'll tell you more when we talk. By the way Jose, Kevin made SFP High school on a full scholarship.
William

[TDM]

I have also worked on a composite plane and the question I have for you is what layout did you employ on the fuse.
From the looks of it, it appears that you have a cloth balsa cloth sandwitch. Will you give us more details on the layout? It looks very similar tho the layout I use in my horizontal stab.
Has anyone tried Cloth foam Cloth layouts? Or Just plain layouts?

[Ted Fancher]

Jose,

Bravo!

Ted

[Jim Pollock]

Jose,

Perfect Job!  Paul himself proved that 62 ounces is a perfect weight for an Impact!

Jim Pollock 

[jose modesto]

Thanks Mr. Fancher (Ted) working on four models Impact,SV22< Hunt's Saturn you have to see the work Hunt did on the fuse,wing and tail feathers. the fourth Model is the TRIVIAL PERSUIT. Ted can you provide the details for the stab location from engine thrust  line.
Dorin a couple of photos.
Jim  Pollock I have discussed the model with Paul and the goal is 62oz but electric if you weigh like wet system weight would be around 57 to 58oz.
 Dorin I have 3 Yatzenko Sharks and they mold 1/16" Balsa with glass cloth interior and exterior for all components my first Shark had what they call sinthetic balsa(foam with glass cloth int. and ext. for the wing. I originally based my program on Windy U work from there a developed my methods.
 I started molding planes in  2002 prior to seeing the yatzenko models the photos above of the full takeapart Impact Master (some red paint in the mold was made in 2003) that model uses foam cores for stab flaps wing and fuse. 1/8" 1 lbs foam cut into sheets for fuse and wing ,flaps are 1/4" foam, stab 3/8" foam and elevators tapered using the rod method. they were also bagged using mylar folders on glass sheets for flatness.

[TDM]

I see you have at least two systems:  one with carbon only and one with Fiberglass balsa. I am not sure what to make from the pictures.
Can you provide details on what have you used on the stab wing and fuse? What kind of fiberglass did you use? What kind of balsa? How many layers? Did you pre formed the balsa?

Dorin

[jose modesto]

Dorin i had a full reply but as i posted it got lost.
I have molded every type of matterial possible and have come back to balsa.
I combined the Al rabe method of molding wet balsa over a male plug by wrapping with an ace bandage this gives me a full 1/2 of a fuse see photo
then i vac um bag into female molds
sequence 1) Create a full fuse without the rudder and fin(note you can include these pieces but the wrappings wood is difficult the half profile and full nose is molded with fin as part of fuse green and white model)
 finish fuse with auto paint and polish to high gloss apply wax(just like a finished model) Note fuse has a center line entire length of Body from plan view this is the parting point in creating the 2 clam shells.
Photo 118 SV-22 balsa shells
photo 149 from right  to left SV-22 fuse male plug,CF cloth w/ foam center ,Wood Impact  clan shell fuse resting in mold,1/2 fuse balsa shell
 Dorin by using balsa sheets for the wings i was able to create a built up molded wing with carbon fiber tips this gave me a way of using the vacum bag system to develop a new way of creating a built up wings these came about as i was not happy with the weights and was looking for a weight savings(necessity is the mother of invention)
 the photos are in a post above
a couple of photos of stab

[jose modesto]

Dorin construction sequence
photo #1  feselage carbon fiber cloth with 1/32" balsa core
first layer= .5 fiberglass cloth
second =layer 2.4 carbon fiber cloth
three =1/32" balsa core
fourth= .5 glass cloth

Photo #2 fuselage wood glass cloth and carbon fiber mat
first layer= 1.4 oz glass cloth
second=1/32" balsa core
three= .2 cabon fiber mat
fourth=.5 glass cloth
Epoxy west system
photo #3

[jose modesto]

Dorin these models use foam core with glass and carbon fiber mat
Photo of fuselage  mold with fin as part of body
photo of plane using body
Green plane has the composite built up wing
dark grey models uses vacum bag foam wing (no wood sheeting used)
both planes use foam stab elevator and flaps all vacum bagged composite construction in a Mylar folder.

[TDM]

We work on parallel projects. I have also tested with foam core and I was not happy because it was too heavy. The core was rather light and you can definitely use the vacuum bag with Mylar on top of foam but what I have discovered was that it is not durable. If you tap with the finger on the model it leaves indents in the surface. To avoid that I had to go to two layers of 1.6oz cloth witch brought the weight through the roof. I had the exact same result since I ended up making it using your identical technique .5oz cloth 1/16 thinned to .04in balsa pre molded skins and .5oz cloth with best results.

I have CNC cut molds for the fuse and I plan to cast the mold. A bit more expensive but you have the mold next day ready to use.

Do you also use 1/32 balsa in the stab too? I opted to make the stab tips separate and this works good for me. Also if you want to change the look of the plane just change the tips on the stab rudder and tips on wing maybe a new turtle on fuse and rudder and you go from SV-22 to Tempest etc.

May I suggest you lay out the cloth bias at 45 degrees to improve torsional stability. The grain of the balsa will take the longitudinal load.

Thanks for helping me with my decision.

Dorin

[jose modesto]

Dorin most of the systems describe above were developed in 2003. what i used for the foam stab to make them more durable is to incorporate the use of .5 carbon mat in the composite foam parts this gives them some resistance to dents.
 An alternative to white 1lbs foam is pink or blue foam these should be tapered in order to reduce weight and they are better at reducing dents if combined with .2 or .5 carbon fiber mat. You can also sheet with 1/32" contest balsa and .5 cloth the part has half the finish as you remove from Mylar folder.
The projects that I'm working on are specific models by the designers  Walker Impact, Randy's SV22, Hunt's Saturn, Big Jim's Patternmaster, Fancher Trivial Persuit,and the Yatzenko Shark.
Note:all of these components can be mix and matched  to create any combination that you want. SV fuse impact wing and tail,or my Impact master, pattermaster wing with Impact fuse,stab and elevator with PM moments the combinations are endless or just buildthe model as designed.
The models listed above are the preeminent winning models in US Nats competition and the most popular models being built by the majority of competitor's today.
Dorin at any time you can cut of tips and create your own look on any of the wings,stabs,you can cut off the molded canopy and install a clear canopy with cockpit details so the options are endless.
some photos showing the flexability of the fuse as you mentioned again these photos are from 2003.
Jose Modesto

[TDM]

My design Pics from CAD screens.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Jose,

Fantastic topic.

We will have to talk.

[TDM]

Yes I have come to the same conclusion. The control surfaces are all 1lb foam with 1/32 balsa and .5 glass on the top. A warning advice is that I tried to vacuum bag it and the pressure was so high that it collapsed the stab. To fix this next time I will use stainless steel sheeting instead of Mylars to prevent collapsing or maybe I will use blue foam for the core of in the future since it is closed cell foam and it does not collapse. It looks like we both got on parallel roads and did get to the same conclusions.

Dorin

[jose modesto]

Dorin your model looks mean and aggressive i like the look

are you making props.
most of my new models are electric powered. I have been flying electric and they have some inherent advantages that i will like to take advantage of.
Electric Genesis also  with added Rudder
Jose Modesto

[jose modesto]

Tom i have a couple of photos of some of your Flying Art
I would love to do Doactavio's Falcon model as a componennet classic ship.
Jose Modesto

[TDM]

Jose

Would you recommend to use 1/32 balsa on the wings? Of  course .5oz cloth on the outside like Windy is doing on his wings. I was considering 1/32 it but it seems a bit weak. Maybe a happy medium can be achieved with 1/16 on leading edge and trailing edge and have some 1/32 on the rest of the surface? What do you think? Also I would put a vertical spar/wall on the maximum thickness of the wing.
Still I anticipate the best results are if I sand the sheeting off and taper it towards the tip.

Dorin

[TDM]

Dorin your model looks mean and aggressive i like the look

are you making props.
most of my new models are electric powered. I have been flying electric and they have some inherent advantages that i will like to take advantage of.

In the next few days I am going to experiment with a new production style for making props INFUSION MOLDING. If all works good and I decide that it is worth my time I will put them back on the market. It is only a matter of 2-3 weeks till I make the decision. If that works then I will also make pusher props for electric.

Dorin

[jose modesto]

Doring all my new wings are built with 1/32" non contest balsa i back this with 3/32" white foam cut to shape of  the airfoil with .5 glass cloth exterior and .2 mat interior i dont like to use spars. I have 66" span models built this way with no issues.
The Yatzenko Shark wings are built out if 1/32" wood with glass inside and out they use 3 ribs balsa per bay (first generation shark 2004 used foam wing surface and foam ribs) and use their aluminum take apart system at high point they also use a hard wood 1/16" x3/8'' 3/4 out on eack bay. their wings are verry stong at leading edge and trailing edge but soft after high point of wing the Shark wings painted weigh 190z for the two panels
My kavlar foam one piece wing weigh 9 oz before final assembly.
Dorin if you use 2.4CF cloth and the foam backing  as described above you can have a 10oz wing that has 1/2 finish already applied.(wing is at final filler coat with minor filling and then color.
Dont use kevlar on out side it does not sand will at joints or seams the 9 oz wing has now benn rediced to 8 oz by using .5 glass ext  with .2 cf mat 1/8" whie foam and .2cfm interior very stiff but you can dent them

[TDM]

I think I will stick with what Windy is doing. .5oz cloth 1/16 contest balsa tapered towards the tip and .5oz on the inside. I think that even if I use 1/32 non contest after you add the foam it will be much heavier because you need glue between the glass and balsa, between the balsa and foam, and between the foam and the inner glass layer.

It sounds heavy.

I was building a DLG stab and I was concerned about the bond between the glass and the foam core. So I put a layer of resin on the foam then placed paper towel on the foam and took all of it off using a hard roller. Then I put the usual Mylar sheet with glass on top resin then took all of the excess epoxy off with the towels and it turned up about 25% heavier. The bond was great the part was looking great but still a bit heavy. So I am iffy about adding any layers of glue and laminations.

The only place I will use foam core balsa glass is on the flying surfaces. I have elevator control surface in the 7gr before glassing and 12g after glassing ready to go with hardware installed for plug in elevator Yatshenko style. And it is pre finished with a coat of primer (witch I spray the stainless before bagging) ready for first silver coat.

Check this out.
I made it last year.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1022533
I can cut the flaps with it now. Yes my first name is Traian my middle name is Dorin

[Tom Niebuhr]

Jose,

The "Falcon" in your picture is 60 size. It was victim of many items, including last minute adding fuselage depth for our early excursions with pipes, then going back to ST .60. Then it was a victim of the horrible site we had at the Lawrenceville Nats. Hit a pothole on landing.

The "Jerseyan" that you show was my 1st one built from the plans that I had inked in the 60's. I asked John D'Ottavio for permission to built it. The same Mylar plan was used for the "Jerseyan" article that we published in Model Aviation. The picture below is of the one we show in the article

[jose modesto]

Dorin I developed the 1/16" balsa shell with .5 glasscloth See photos of built up wing 2003. This system requires ribs and spars.
I wanted to create a true monocoupe stresses skin wing  structure with out spars or ribs this required the use of 3/32" Foam.
if you use the following additional epoxy is not required
1) .5  glass cloth
2)1/16" Balsa skim
3).5 glass cloth
4) 1/16 foam foam uses the epoxy for the .5 glass cloth.
Can you tell me what your projected weight for a completed wing including flaps anf contorls.
attached is photo of carbon fiber cloth flaps for the Electric TWEENER(2Ener)
Jose Modesto

[TDM]

Can you tell me what your projected weight for a completed wing including flaps anf contorls.
attached is photo of carbon fiber cloth flaps for the Electric TWEENER(2Ener)
Jose Modesto

I do not have a final weight in mind. I would hope that the plane will be in the 50-52 for final weight.

[jose modesto]

i wat a 62 oz Impact with 30 oz of electric power system.  planes can be to light (my opinion)what is your wing area and why not use a Dave Midgly wing?

[TDM]

Wing area 660 Sq in.
I really like to design my own stuff. My project objectives are.
All molded parts.
Take apart plug in wings and stab Yatsenko style
Pre finished surfaces ready to paint (with minor fine-tuning)
I intend to have interchangeable parts. The goal is that if you take 5 planes on the flight line other than paint scheme you should be able to mix all the parts reassemble the planes in any order and go fly the planes without noticing any change. (assuming they all have the same tip weight etc etc.)
I intend to have fits on the wing to fuse side within a paper thickness (that is tissue paper).
The plane is designed from the beginning as an electric but with option for the wet set up too.
The dream here is to make something that if I crash I can go back mold another part and be back up and running. Or maybe if someone flies my plane I can send the spare part and have it back in the air.
Finally the build should take about a week to complete two including the paint job.
It takes a lot of preparation but it can be done.