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Author Topic: Question about Rubber Powered Models  (Read 2642 times)

Offline Mike Griffin

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Question about Rubber Powered Models
« on: April 19, 2023, 05:05:49 PM »
Who are the "go to " people for rubber powered kits and accessories such as rubber, winders etc? 

Thank you
Mike

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2023, 05:24:28 PM »
Mike,  Check out "Easy Built Models"   hope you're feeling better.

Steve

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2023, 05:53:55 PM »
  Go to the Nantional Free Flight Society web site and go from there. Will fill all your needs. Also the Flying Aces Club website is a good place to start, along with FAI Model Supply.
  Type at you later,
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Online Dan Berry

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2023, 06:58:48 PM »
Ultimately your rubber comes from FAI Supply
https://www.faimodelsupply.com/
He has other stuff like hooks. He has the best pins .

https://volareproducts.com/wordpress/
Has kits, carved prop blanks, neat accessories.

Retro RC has many of the kits that Campbell's Custom Kits made. He has a lot of neat accessories.
http://retrorc.us.com/

Easy Built as mentioned already
https://easybuiltmodels.com/#gsc.tab=0

https://dielsengineeringinc.com/


Winders are where you find them.
If anyone is still making one I don't know who it is except for the supergalactic ones used for FAI events.


Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2023, 07:03:09 PM »
Mike,  Check out "Easy Built Models"   hope you're feeling better.

Steve
[/quote

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the help and asking about me.  I am still having some issues with fatigue and the Cardiologist is going to run some more tests on me.  Thank you again for asking.

Mike

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2023, 07:03:38 PM »
  Go to the Nantional Free Flight Society web site and go from there. Will fill all your needs. Also the Flying Aces Club website is a good place to start, along with FAI Model Supply.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

Thank you Dan, I appreciate the guidance.

Mike

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2023, 07:05:24 PM »
Ultimately your rubber comes from FAI Supply
https://www.faimodelsupply.com/
He has other stuff like hooks. He has the best pins .

https://volareproducts.com/wordpress/
Has kits, carved prop blanks, neat accessories.

Retro RC has many of the kits that Campbell's Custom Kits made. He has a lot of neat accessories.
http://retrorc.us.com/

Easy Built as mentioned already
https://easybuiltmodels.com/#gsc.tab=0

https://dielsengineeringinc.com/


Winders are where you find them.
If anyone is still making one I don't know who it is except for the supergalactic ones used for FAI events.

Thank you Dan for all the links.  I will check them out.  I think my control line days are winding down (no pun intended).  I thought I might give rubber a try, I have never built or flown one except for the Old Sleek Streeks when I was a kid.

Mike

Offline Jack Pitcher

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2023, 07:20:58 PM »
Also take a look at Laser-Cut Planes
https://www.lasercutplanes.com
A generous selection of indoor type models with a few simple outdoor types. John's models are all laser cut, very well engineered, contain good props and rubber and are very simple to build. They produce light weight and simple to fly models with almost automatic performance. I've built several of them for use at indoor flying sessions and I've been very pleased with the results. They are very popular in our indoor group. Try one of the P-18's, they're magic.

Jack
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2023, 08:02:53 PM »
Hippocket Builders Forum is a really great resource: https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php.  They're mostly a stick & tissue forum, and most of that is rubber-powered free flight.
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Offline Reptoid

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2023, 08:24:46 PM »
Who are the "go to " people for rubber powered kits and accessories such as rubber, winders etc? 

Thank you
Mike

Here's a link to a winder on "R/C Groups" That forum often has free flight supplies, kits, rubber, winders, tissue, etc.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?4321807-Rubber-winder-new

Good luck
Regards,
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2023, 10:33:30 PM »
Thank you Dan for all the links.  I will check them out.  I think my control line days are winding down (no pun intended).  I thought I might give rubber a try, I have never built or flown one except for the Old Sleek Streeks when I was a kid.

Mike

   I know you can't go out and buy Sleek Streeks any more, but they can be scratch built!! Guillows still produces 'dime store" rubber powered models, and you can find them in a lot of stores. The Hobby Lobby crafty stores, Michaels craft stores and of course hobby shops. You can have a lot of fun and learn a ton about rubber, trimming for flight and such with these, and it's pretty challenging to just try and get a minute flight under the street light on a calm evening, but you will be learning what you need for any other kind of rubber powered model. Look for plans for other small sport models on Outerzone. Those will get you in the air and having fun pretty fast. Look for winders on eBay. Sterling had a small 5:1 winder that was noisy but pretty durable. SIG had two winders also, a 5:1 and a 16:1 b ut you have to be careful with how much rubber you wind with those. the 16:1 will only handle a single loop of 1/8" or smaller rubber. Old Stanley hand drills can be converted into winders also, but look for the ones with two pinion gears to help prevent the gears jumping teeth under heavy toque of bigger motors. You basically just need to bend a hook from music wire that will have a section that will catch behind the jaws as you tighten the chuck doesn't so it won't pull out under load. You probably already have everything else you need. 
  Type at you later,
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Offline Ara Dedekian

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2023, 11:25:38 PM »


       Mike,

          Dan mentioned the Guillow kits as a possible choice. Some of the kits have been improved with laser cutting and the smaller ones are reasonably priced. They're quick and easy to build if you don't try for a front row look. Without adding any more wood, they can be decent flyers.

          My Flying Aces Club picked the Guillow Bird Dog for this years one design. We had to build it with the kit wood. I substituted the covering with Christmas wrapping tissue (just to see if it worked) and the results, considering it's a slam-bam job were pretty satisfying. The other mods were a screw on wing, thinner cellophane and F.A.I. rubber. It placed second in an indoor mass launch event.

          Entry level winders are still being produced. www.lasercutplanes.com carries the 15:1 KP Aero Winder for $19. They also carry small quantities of rubber if you don't want to buy it in bulk from F.A.I.

      Ara

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2023, 08:48:16 AM »
Mike,

Rubber powered free flight is an interesting and challenging hobby to get into. I can't expand much beyond what has already been said by Dan and some others here but I will say RPFF can very well become a rewarding experience we can look forward to when CL becomes too challenging for us health wise physically and mentally. Unfortunately one way or another we all have to face this inevitable fact of life, we are getting old!

I want to add I was fortunate several years back to attend the annual Flying Aces Club Nationals at Geneseo, New York. I watched what they call the "mass ascension" where about 30 models launch together to see whose model will stay aloft the longest. These guys create beautiful models and are experts at building and flying. The guy I went with after seeing my interest later gave me a 50 year old Comet Phantom Fury kit I decided to try to build. I was fascinated how much there is to building a stick and tissue model that can really stay in the air well beyond the motor depleting. I learned about blast tubes, braiding the motor, pre flight gliding adjustments, rare earth magnets to hold the nose bearing in place when the motor unwinds, shrinking tissue with ammonia and water, it goes on and on.

Anyway I built the Fury and after a few trials I finally wound the motor to its intended limit and launched the little bird. To my surprise it made a half circle of the yard and climbed over the neighbor's house and landed down the street on another's front lawn. The little Fury now sits in the corner of the shop on top of an old printer as a reminder there's more to come when this old body seems to be running out of steam. For the moment though I'm now going to return to finishing the Imitation Profile Warren Wagner left behind for me when he moved to Florida. I sure hearing about an Imitation build should be note worthy for you.

Good luck if you go stick and tissue and don't "over wind".

Steve

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2023, 08:54:35 AM »
Mike a couple more shots too large for the earlier file I wanted to pass on as well.

Blast tube inserted and the the motor retainer pin tube.

Steve

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2023, 09:10:31 AM »
I see Steve, you overcame the problem landing gear designs with Comet by leaving them off on the Phantom Fury. Back in the day when one could go to the local 5 and dime cent store to buy these kits, I did a lot of building and flying in the 1960's. Deperately tired of the landing gears getting torn off, so built their 18" P40 Warhawk with a nonscale music wire landing gear bent from music wire and attached to the bulkhead ahead of the wing, similar to some C/L jobs.

Online Sean McEntee

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2023, 09:18:54 AM »
   Laser Cut Planes is owned by John McGrath, who is a member of our FF club here in Colorado Springs.  Awesome guy if you overlook his Navy background LL~

   He puts out some really good laser cut kits that are decently priced.  We do about 4 or 5 school build/fly sessions a year.  I went to the first one wondering what they were going to use for a model, and John brought a bunch of his Sea Story (again...Navy....) P-19 kits.  Like Jack stated, it takes effort to screw them up.  They will fly well off the board just about every time. 

   If you're looking to fly "Al Fresco", among John's other offerings, also has a P-30 legal model called Stick Figure.  In place of the typical rolled balsa or built up fuselage, it uses a CF boom, so its basically a big "Sleek Streak".  I have a kit and its in the building queue.  He has also been flying a prototype Coupe version.


Jack:  Have we met?  Are you an MMM member?

Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2023, 09:30:26 AM »
BMJR is another good source for kits and stuff.

If you want to get in the air like the good old days of the Sleek Streak, check out the AMA Alpha and Beta. They are available from the AMA On-Line Store. Both planes fly well. They come with a winder and everything else you need to go fly.
"Clockwise Forever..."

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2023, 10:14:33 AM »
I see Steve, you overcame the problem landing gear designs with Comet by leaving them off on the Phantom Fury. Back in the day when one could go to the local 5 and dime cent store to buy these kits, I did a lot of building and flying in the 1960's. Deperately tired of the landing gears getting torn off, so built their 18" P40 Warhawk with a nonscale music wire landing gear bent from music wire and attached to the bulkhead ahead of the wing, similar to some C/L jobs.

GG, I did have the landing music wire gear attached initially but after getting tired of it coming off on every landing on lawn I decided to add an extra magnet on the nose instead. All of this has tweaked my interest again, I'll probably have to braid up a new motor they don't age well.

Steve

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2023, 10:57:01 AM »
I sincerely appreciate all of the input you guys have shared.  I am afraid my days of flying control line are probably over although I will probably still build them as I enjoy building so much.  I have always wanted to try rubber power FF and I guess now is my chance.  I really had no idea where to go for kits and accessories and the information you have shared will be very helpful.

Mike

Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2023, 11:45:45 AM »
Like any new venture, start small and simple to get the trim aspects understood.. Not too unlike full scale you fly. Just smaller  D>K
Ty Marcucci

Offline Jack Pitcher

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2023, 02:14:20 PM »
Sean, We met briefly a few years back at the final Ceiling Climb held in the downtown auditorium in the Springs. These days I try to attend the Friday night indoor sessions at Beth Eden gym in Wheat Ridge as regularly as I can. It's a nice site and we're fortunate to have access to it. Come up and fly with us sometime if you can.

I'm not currently a MMM member. I need to do something about that.

Jack
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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2023, 04:05:46 PM »
Wheat Ridge caught my eye as my sister in law lives there.. Next time I'm in town I'll have to check out your flying site and maybe bring a Peanut or two. H^^
Ty Marcucci

Online Sean McEntee

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2023, 06:37:48 PM »
Sean, We met briefly a few years back at the final Ceiling Climb held in the downtown auditorium in the Springs. These days I try to attend the Friday night indoor sessions at Beth Eden gym in Wheat Ridge as regularly as I can. It's a nice site and we're fortunate to have access to it. Come up and fly with us sometime if you can.

I'm not currently a MMM member. I need to do something about that.

Jack

Heck, I've slept a few times since then!  Beth Eden looks like a good site but my school schedule and that of my daughter precludes it.  We had our first Ceiling Climb at Gallogly Events Center at University of Colorado at Colorado Springs (where I am currently attending) earlier this month.  Myself and a few others have helped run the last couple State ScyOly Tournaments that are held there.  I worked with the schools chapter of the American Insititute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to help us get in there, and only cost us 75 bucks and a P-18 build session with the AIAA members, and they came and flew the contest as well.  Gallogly has a slightly higher ceiling than the Auditorium, but doesn't have the concave roof.  Everyone was pretty impressed with the site and I'm already work on reserving it for next year!

...and yes you should!  ;D

Cheers,
Sean

Offline Bruce Shipp

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2023, 07:02:43 PM »
Mike, here’s some motivation for your free flight endeavors.

https://m.youtube.com/@maxfliart/videos

Maxfliart has a great YouTube channel and his videos are educational, entertaining and relaxing.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2023, 10:37:26 PM »
Like any new venture, start small and simple to get the trim aspects understood.. Not too unlike full scale you fly. Just smaller  D>K

  This is what I mean about the dime store , all balsa slide together airplanes Guillows has three or four in different sizes. By themselves, they ain't much. But add in some polyhedral on the wings, a better prop, and better rubber and they can really go!! i think the single biggest thing holding any of them back is the props. Guillows props are just TERRIBLE!! They just don't provide any real thrust. Sand them down thinner and play with curvature on the blades is an option. Or cut off the blades but leave a short stump, then attach home made blades made from plastic containers and such. Almost anything works better.
  Type at you later,
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Online bob whitney

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2023, 11:26:32 PM »
back in the Navy days more than one after hours rubber powered glider contest was held in the  big work shop hanger until wee hours of the morning. those days were the greatest. i seem to remember one of the top indoor rubber guys complaining that he was missing  some of his best rubber .and it seems as some of the flight went from 15 sec to over one minate .not mentioning names but Jim Bradly ,Mike Aarak and Blane Miller could could probably explain how the times got so much better S?P LL~
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Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: Question about Rubber Powered Models
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2023, 07:25:14 AM »
  This is what I mean about the dime store , all balsa slide together airplanes Guillows has three or four in different sizes. By themselves, they ain't much. But add in some polyhedral on the wings, a better prop, and better rubber and they can really go!! i think the single biggest thing holding any of them back is the props. Guillows props are just TERRIBLE!! They just don't provide any real thrust. Sand them down thinner and play with curvature on the blades is an option. Or cut off the blades but leave a short stump, then attach home made blades made from plastic containers and such. Almost anything works better.

By the mid 1960's, those lighter weight Guillow dime flyers were no longer available.

Comet had a series of airplanes that was their cheapest kits of the mid 1960's, planes with 15" wingspan Ryan low wing cabin, Bellanca Jr., Porterfield 65, Curtiss Robin, and two peanut scale 12" wingspan Spad and Fokker DVII biplanes, cost $0.69 each. I built many of them because they were so cheap. But they came with a diminuitive 3.5" prop that was the same width as half-A glow props, barely produced any thrust.

The Guillow red 4.5" props that came on their cheapest ROG ready to flies and lower end kits, those red props with rounded blunt tips were a far better prop than the Comet ones. At least they provided decent thrust.

Later, a bit older, (started building balsa stick and tissue around 10 YO), found that those airplanes, which seemed to be framed heavy would fly decently if I really worked down the half-inch wide trailing edge (stock was 1/8x1/2) to almost a point at the tip and made a triangle instead of barely tapered and rounded end, better airfoiling the wing leading edge. Just that shaved quite a bit off the weight. (Some later modellers lightened even further by making trailing edge 1/16x1/8, eliminating 1/16 square paralleling split in half at the spar wing ribs, made ribs with notch for spar.)

Better building practices and the smallest Guillow props made these decent fliers. Best flier was Comet's 18" P-51 A or B turtle deck. It was framed light, flew well. Guillow on the other hand were framed like a balsa lumber yard. Unless one went to contest grade lighter balsa, their planes glided like a rock, fast glides and didn't do to well because of weight in hard landings.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2023, 07:42:01 AM by GallopingGhostler »

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