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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Naomi Macklem on June 06, 2020, 04:15:25 PM

Title: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Naomi Macklem on June 06, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
Ken Towers gifted me with a PT 19 plastic model, complete with Cox 0.49 and old Dacron flying lines.  It was one of the original ARF's.  Took less than 10 minutes to put it together with elastic bands, and the motor actually started.  Taking off was interesting, requiring full up then level off after about half a lap once you actually get it to a reasonable height and speed in the air.  I was not brave enough to attempt any stunts with it, as it has no tip weight and very little up or down control.
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Dan McEntee on June 06, 2020, 06:52:47 PM
   Hi Naomi;
      I never get tired of talking about the Cox PT-19. I have about a dozen of them in my collection. Through the years they came in the familiar blue fuselage and yellow wings, opposite that with yellow fuse and blue wings, white wings and red fuselage, and all white with frilly wing and tail stickers! The final version that they released was upgraded with a few improvements. Mike Pratt, who is a stunt grunt from way back and worked for SIG when he designed the SIG Magnum, also worked for Cox when they moved to Colorado and were owned by Estes. He made the fuselage thicker where it needed to be, thinner where it could be, added some plastic to the leading and trailing edges at the center section, and added tip weight. I always thought that the PT-19 flew pretty well anyway, but these little detailed improvements helped out a great deal and only increased the weight about 5 grams. If you look at your model, you will see that the elevator horn has two hole locations. The longer hole is for training and slows the controls down.  The hole nearest the pivot gives you more control. look at the nose also, and you will see that the engine mount c an be adjusted for a lot of down thrust for beginners, and then moved up to almost level for more experienced flyers. It is capable of big loops if you do not over control. It will stall at big elevator deflections like a Ringmaster. Put about 1/4 to 1/2 ounce of tip weight on the outboard wing and that will help keep lines tight for any beginners. The tank won't allow extended inverted flight and I never tried any outside tricks with any of mine. I don't know how that under cambered wing would react, but keep in mind that it is a trainer!. Mike brought out a stack of them to Oshkosh one year and we left the landing gear off, glued the wing and engine mounts in with silicone and added a small #2 sheet metal screw in a few places. Mike equipped these with some TD cylinders and glow heads so they made some extra power, enough that they would fly well out on 45 foot .012" lines that we used for the Skybaby models in use at that time. Do a search on the 1/2A section of Stunthanger and some one has designed a replica of it using plastic coreplast material and it looks like the real thing! A lot of people hate these and cuss the engines, but they are one of my all time favorites and wish they were still available. They have been out of production a long time, but watch for them on eBay and see what some people will pay for one! Even after being out of  production for so long, there are still people who go into the hobby shop at Christmas time looking for " That little yellow and blue gas powered airplane my Grandpa, Dad, or older brother had when they were kids! If you can't find good 1/2A fuel, any decent 15% fuel with some castor oil in it will run in them. I have even run some of mine of Fox fuel when I had too. Good luck and have fun with the little cutie!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Brett Buck on June 06, 2020, 07:03:20 PM
I was not brave enough to attempt any stunts with it, as it has no tip weight and very little up or down control.

   That was a very good decision!

     Brett
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: proparc on June 06, 2020, 07:36:12 PM
   That was a very good decision!

     Brett

That's right!! I have flown them. LL~ LL~
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Naomi Macklem on June 07, 2020, 09:19:04 AM
I only got into the hobby 10 years ago when Len & I started dating, so I knew nothing about control line or models.  But Len remembers buying and flying these when he was a kid.  It was a trip down memory lane for him.
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: goozgog on June 07, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
Hello Naomi ! ..  and that Len guy.

 Good to see you're enjoying the Wu Flu shutdown.
The Beanfield looks like heaven now that I can't fly.
I didn't think I would miss C/L as much as I am.


    Do a search on the 1/2A section of Stunthanger and some one has designed a replica of it using plastic coreplast material and it looks like the real thing! A lot of people hate these and cuss the engines, but they are one of my all time favorites and wish they were still available.
    Dan McEntee

Hey Dan . Thanks for the plug ! Hope you're weathering the cooties OK.
 I'm the "someone" who designed the coreplast replicas.

  For anyone searching for the build article here on Stunthanger,

https://stunthanger.com/smf/12-a-building/cox-pt-19-replica-build-flight-video/

  There's a link to The flight video. That's Naomi at 4:45.
She has come a LONG way since 2015.

Cheers! - K.

Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Dan McEntee on June 07, 2020, 03:15:43 PM
   Naomi, you have something in common with Neil Armstrong, and appreciation of a fine flying machine! I was just putting magazines away and flipped through the June, 2019 issue of Model Aviation, and it had a tribute to Mr. Armstrong inside, and included a picture of him standing with one of his son's in a pasture holding a PT-19 that he presented to his son for his birthday! Now, if we all could just figure out a way to walk on the moon!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Brett Buck on June 07, 2020, 03:29:21 PM
Now, if we all could just figure out a way to walk on the moon!

   Take it one step at a time.

    Brett
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Larry Fernandez on June 07, 2020, 05:35:39 PM
The Fairchild PT-19 has always been my favorite airplane. Although I have never owned or flew a Cox PT-19, I have built a few of Dave Hemsraught version that was kitted by Midwest. My dad and I built a full size PT-19 a few years back, so I know that airplane very well.
Those Army Air Corp colors present so beautiful in the air.
I just may have to find me one of those Cox versions just to say I have one.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: John Paris on June 08, 2020, 06:59:13 PM
The Beanfield looks green and perhaps a bit shaggy.  All the better for the little airplanes.  I need to get my PT out for a flight one of these days.  Unfortunately I do not have a former marsthoner to help get mine airborne.  Keep having fun.  Just heard that they are opening the border to relatives so I will be able to see cousin Brad soon..

Off topic and directed back at Keith....  What do you mean you can't fly?

John
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Mike Alimov on June 08, 2020, 07:32:33 PM
...and to take things further off topic, is the Beanfield contest happening this year? I can't find any updates on the Balsa Beavers site.
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Brad LaPointe on June 08, 2020, 07:50:21 PM
John,
The BeanField  guy has been spending a lot of time flying with his good buddy stooge this spring. He keeps the circles cut but the BBQ area is looking rather back to nature these days . Our provincial government is lifting some of the restrictions this Friday so groups of 10 are allowed and outside patios are opening. Small steps .

We probably have the only open control line field in the Province this year. All the public parks have been closed except for walking. That is probably what Keith means. This past weekend was the regular date for the Toronto contest, the weather was of course  perfect .

I have not put a sanction in for the SOCC yet because I don’t think any sporting events are going to be allowed for the foreseeable future. If the border does open I expect that a 14 day quarantine will be mandatory for a while . Going to a contest isn’t looking good.

Brad
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: dale gleason on June 08, 2020, 10:37:20 PM
Has anyone ever considered putting two Cox PT19 wings together in a manner such that it becomes a symmetrical airfoil wing? And then flown such an airplane? And if so, how did it perform ??

dg
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Larry Fernandez on June 09, 2020, 12:16:27 AM
Has anyone ever considered putting two Cox PT19 wings together in a manner such that it becomes a symmetrical airfoil wing? And then flown such an airplane? And if so, how did it perform ??

dg

Sounds like a task for Larry Renger.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Dave Hull on June 09, 2020, 01:54:58 AM
You always could saw a Cox wing in half and add on to make a symmetrical airfoil but it would weigh a ton and that's one thing the -19 doesn't need---more weight.

However, If you want to improve one on the cheap, try putting some clear packing tape over the bottom just like covering. Getting rid of the undercamber should help.

McDivot
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: goozgog on June 09, 2020, 04:52:26 AM
Hello John Paris !

   Hey John, I'm fine and thanks for your concern.

   Bad choice of words on my part.  All of the open
spaces in T.O. are closed for any fun so " I can't fly".

  My son Tom is collecting names for the Corona Virus.
I can only remember a few of them.

- The Wu Flu.

- The Shanghai Shakes.

- The Cooties. ( My favorite).

Fun is where you find it.  - K.  <=

-
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: WR Crane aka MrClean on June 09, 2020, 06:42:20 AM
It's Wuhan Flu
or Kung Flu

Cooties is another name for lice so it already has it's own hilarity.
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Naomi Macklem on June 09, 2020, 11:06:35 AM
You finally cleared up for me the long standing mystery of what cooties were!  Thanks.
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Naomi Macklem on June 09, 2020, 11:07:39 AM
Also, Covid-19 is an STD (socially transmitted disease)
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Brett Buck on June 09, 2020, 11:17:41 AM
You finally cleared up for me the long standing mystery of what cooties were!  Thanks.

  As any 8-year-old boy knows, only girls have cooties. Fortunately, puberty cures them rapidly and completely.

     Brett
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Andre Ming on June 09, 2020, 11:40:21 AM
The Cox PT-19!

Mine didn't survive the corner of our concrete patio. Out of the entire grass covered back yard, that corner of the patio was where I did a lawn dart with it. 1' further and it would have been in the grass. Of course, the airplane shattered.

However, the Babe Bee-type engine survived (it had that red rubber nose cone), and the engine went onto the nose of my first balsa airplane: A Beginner's Ringmaster... and with that combo I taught myself to fly.

Good times, they were.

Andre
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: L0U CRANE on June 09, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
Dale, to your post #12 -

Larry R was, I'm also certain, involved in or responsible for the two later "foamie sheet" wing types, which did fly quite a bit better than that "most-basic" PT-19. One was an Me-109; I forget what the other was... Still a challenge.. A mag (or SN) article at the time offered a few ideas to make them even better. Tape across the open fuse bottom, a few other things.

The  molded wing 'flats' were available separately. I picked up several, and I think I sent some of those to Larry quite a few years ago. He'd also designed a wooden fuselage profile FW-190 for these wings. I have the plans, but no more "wings."  Did anyone say innovative genius?
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Andre Ming on June 09, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
Bruce:

Nice Cosmic Wind model!

(Is that Carrera track??)

Andre

Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: John Paris on June 09, 2020, 07:49:05 PM
Brad and Keith,
Thank you both for the updates.  Good to hear all is well, or at least as well as it can be.  Will keep me ear to the ground for any news.  Keep flying and having fun.
John
Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Pat Chewning on June 09, 2020, 09:07:01 PM
I too had a Cox PT19 when I was in Jr High School.   I recently built a replica of that using blue and yellow Coroplast. 

I flew it with my son and my grandson.   I forgot how poorly those plastic PT19's fly.

So I built the grandsons some balsa models that they are learning on.

Title: Re: PT 19 Way Back Machine
Post by: Mike Hazel on June 11, 2020, 10:41:45 AM
This thread brought back some memories......   When I was young I did not ever own a Cox PT-19, but during my Jr Hi days helped some friends who had them.  I was considered an "expert" because I flew big balsa planes and could always get the engine started.  Fast forward a few years...... In the early 1980's I was the control line column writer for Model Builder magazine.  I received a note from Bill Selzer (?) who worked at Cox wondering if I would do a review/write-up of that plane.  I said yes, and received a small stack of them direct from the factory.  It may have been some sort of anniversary of it's production(?).  Would not know for sure without looking back at the article. Anyway, as I recall the instructions with the plane indicated it was suitable for ages 10 and up.  A local friend of mine rounded up a couple of 10 year old neighborhood kids and I used them with the start to finish (assembly to flying) process of evaluating the plane.  Don't remember if they thought it was a big deal to be featured in a magazine article or not.  As I recall, I was reasonably charitable in the review article.  The Pt-19 RTF plane measured up to the claims, and it was way better than most other plastic RTF's of the time.