stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Shug Emery on April 12, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
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Getting down to final assembly and then some sanding and whether to paint or Monocote the Prowler. Leaning towards paint.
Still have to hook up the pushrods. I little short coming from wing to flap. Not enough to bend an L to get into the control horn. Gotta figure out something there. Solder on another bit of rod? Are folks using clevis on pushrods?
Got the OS .40 tuned by Randy Smith breaking in and am excited to get airborne.
Thinking I'll start with 60' to 65' lines. Seem's about right but trimming will tell the tale.
Been reading up on the forum. So much good info. Ready to get back on the Pattern))))))
Getting a Uniflow tank to put on it. Have an old 4oz wedge but Uniflow seems to dictate the day. Even been reading up on the Plastic Clunk Uniflow.
Would a 4 oz be good for an OS .40 FP? Maybe 4 1/2 oz?
Any opinions welcome. Ya'll seem to have good ones.
Shug
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Depending on venturi size, prop size, I wouldn't think your going to make the pattern using 4 oz's. Not that it's a unobtainable goal, I just feel the 4.5 oz. at least gives me room. In the cooler seasons, my 4 oz. planes just don't get my planes through the pattern. I'm sure climate and altitude is also a factor. I also don't use the stock mufflers so this is more than likely another factor. As for metal wedge vs plastic clunk this could save you some up front weight. You would be surprised of the weight difference. I've had plastic clunk tanks work well vs the metal. Experimentation is the best thing to try. You could solder on a Dubro threaded coupler for your pushrod. I would specifically use a 4-40 threaded coupler. Don't use the 2-56 as this will eventually fail where the threads meet the tube. These couplers are for .093 wire. If the wire diameter is smaller, you could increase the diameter using some tubing soldered onto your wire. Making the wire as clean as possible is a must and I prefer to tin the wire prior to soldering. A 4-40 clevis or ball link will fit that coupler. The coupler will add about 1 1/2" in length to your wire. your line length should be quite suitable at 63' eyelet to eyelet. Ken
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Hey Sean
What some folks do, me included is make up carbon fiber pushrods with threaded inserts in both ends. Then use heavy duty 4-40 ball links. This will allow you to adjust the controls. It you have not covered it the it would be a quick and easy upgrade.
If you want a quick finish, kote the wings and rattle can the rest with rust-o-leum.
If you want a dope finish. Polyspan and all Brodak dope.
Looks good.
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Also might suggest a weight tip box. Looks cleaner. H^^
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And my Prowler - been sitting this way for 12+ years. Carbon veil on the wings. Note how I inlaid the composite motor mount with a router.
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Depending on venturi size, prop size, I wouldn't think your going to make the pattern using 4 oz's. Not that it's a unobtainable goal, I just feel the 4.5 oz. at least gives me room. In the cooler seasons, my 4 oz. planes just don't get my planes through the pattern. I'm sure climate and altitude is also a factor. I also don't use the stock mufflers so this is more than likely another factor. As for metal wedge vs plastic clunk this could save you some up front weight. You would be surprised of the weight difference. I've had plastic clunk tanks work well vs the metal. Experimentation is the best thing to try. You could solder on a Dubro threaded coupler for your pushrod. I would specifically use a 4-40 threaded coupler. Don't use the 2-56 as this will eventually fail where the threads meet the tube. These couplers are for .093 wire. If the wire diameter is smaller, you could increase the diameter using some tubing soldered onto your wire. Making the wire as clean as possible is a must and I prefer to tin the wire prior to soldering. A 4-40 clevis or ball link will fit that coupler. The coupler will add about 1 1/2" in length to your wire. your line length should be quite suitable at 63' eyelet to eyelet. Ken
Got an order in for a 4 1/2 inflow tank....will look into adjustable mounting. Have some plastic tanks laying around from R/C . Did a wire cit and solder today. Non-resin solder thin wire wrapped and heat shrunk. Trying a ball joint clevis for now. Whew.......seems like it should work. It is 4-40.
I truly thank you for your input.
Hey Sean
What some folks do, me included is make up carbon fiber pushrods with threaded inserts in both ends. Then use heavy duty 4-40 ball links. This will allow you to adjust the controls. It you have not covered it the it would be a quick and easy upgrade.
If you want a quick finish, kote the wings and rattle can the rest with rust-o-leum.
If you want a dope finish. Polyspan and all Brodak dope.
Looks good.
Did the ball links today with carbon fiber))))) Your right...easy adjust. At this point may go with a not to labor intensive paint job. The instructions give a fairly good outline.
I appreciate your comment.
Also might suggest a weight tip box. Looks cleaner. H^^
Now ya' done it)))))) I just may, I might. I just may. A wee bit of cutting I reckon. Will explore the technique.
And my Prowler - been sitting this way for 12+ years. Carbon veil on the wings. Note how I inlaid the composite motor mount with a router.
Cool to see another Prowler! Not familiar with carbon veil. Did you still sheet the wings with balsa? Does the carbon veil replace that?
Thanks for posting that.
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Cool to see another Prowler! Not familiar with carbon veil. Did you still sheet the wings with balsa? Does the carbon veil replace that?
Thanks for posting that.
Think of the carbon veil as black tissue. It goes on after the balsa sheeting. You can still see the glue seams through the carbon. Not sure if it adds any significant strength/stiffness but it does provide a good base for the finish coats, just as silkspan does.
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Shug,
You may be aware of this already and have simply stuck the flaps and elevators on temporarily, but if they are permanently mounted now you have a problem that I would call to your attention. You do not want big gaps like that on your hinge lines. It can create serious trimming issues and makes it very difficult to seal the hinge lines.
The hinge barrels should be inlet into the flaps and elevators to eliminate most if not all of that gap. If you know about this already and are planning on changing that my apologies. If not, I would strongly recommend you do whatever is necessary to take the hinges out and change this situation.
You could consider using balsa strip glued to the flap over the hinge barrels and then relieved where the hinges are or just glued to the flaps and elevators in between the hinges.
The hinge lines should look basically like these in the picture.
Randy Cuberly
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On the other hand, Paul Walker did pretty well at the Nats this year with hinge gaps reported to be on the order of .080" (SN Jan/Feb 2014, page 22), which is full barrel diameter for the large Dubro, but sealed with tape, as we all should do.
Gary
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On the other hand, Paul Walker did pretty well at the Nats this year with hinge gaps reported to be on the order of .080" (SN Jan/Feb 2014, page 22), which is full barrel diameter for the large Dubro, but sealed with tape, as we all should do.
Gary
Yeah there's always one...! LL~ LL~ LL~
Do whatever you want...I do it my way!
Randy Cuberly
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Shug,
You may be aware of this already and have simply stuck the flaps and elevators on temporarily, but if they are permanently mounted now you have a problem that I would call to your attention. You do not want big gaps like that on your hinge lines. It can create serious trimming issues and makes it very difficult to seal the hinge lines.
The hinge barrels should be inlet into the flaps and elevators to eliminate most if not all of that gap.
Mine are definitely in that area, they only look less because the hinge pin takes up a fair bit of it. But of course it is sealed. I leave this much gap intentionally because it makes it easier to seal.
Brett
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Think of the carbon veil as black tissue. It goes on after the balsa sheeting. You can still see the glue seams through the carbon. Not sure if it adds any significant strength/stiffness but it does provide a good base for the finish coats, just as silkspan does.
I like the name....Carbon Veil. y1
Thanks for the explanation.
Shug,
You may be aware of this already and have simply stuck the flaps and elevators on temporarily, but if they are permanently mounted now you have a problem that I would call to your attention. You do not want big gaps like that on your hinge lines. It can create serious trimming issues and makes it very difficult to seal the hinge lines.
The hinge barrels should be inlet into the flaps and elevators to eliminate most if not all of that gap. If you know about this already and are planning on changing that my apologies. If not, I would strongly recommend you do whatever is necessary to take the hinges out and change this situation.
You could consider using balsa strip glued to the flap over the hinge barrels and then relieved where the hinges are or just glued to the flaps and elevators in between the hinges.
The hinge lines should look basically like these in the picture.
Randy Cuberly
Funny you wrote this as I found these hinge notch tools I made when starting this kit years ago. Forgot what they were but today I found the arlcle by Ward Van Duzer (sorry if I gothis ams wrong). Mine don't look as nice as yours!
Thanks for the heads up.
Pictures below.
On the other hand, Paul Walker did pretty well at the Nats this year with hinge gaps reported to be on the order of .080" (SN Jan/Feb 2014, page 22), which is full barrel diameter for the large Dubro, but sealed with tape, as we all should do.
Gary
Man....that guy can do a pattern. A control line savant or does he practice a lot?
Mine are definitely in that area, they only look less because the hinge pin takes up a fair bit of it. But of course it is sealed. I leave this much gap intentionally because it makes it easier to seal.
Brett
That makes sense.
I am going to paint I decided though I have another plane I am going to monocote. Sketched up a really rough design tonight. We just flew on Lufthansa and I was inspired by their grey/yellow colors.
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Funny you wrote this as I found these hinge notch tools I made when starting this kit years ago. Forgot what they were but today I found the arlcle by Ward Van Duzer (sorry if I gothis ams wrong). Mine don't look as nice as yours!
I can't quite tell, but the hinge pins must be in line with the gap, or when you apply the seals, they will "roll" instead of flex/bend the tape. I make very small recesses to just accommodate the radius of the hinge barrels where it goes to the flat, the barrels themselves are entirely in the hinge line. Then, copying some guy from Seattle, I use a single wire hinge pin, so I can remove the flaps entirely after the hinges are glued in.
This hinge line stuff is WAY more important than what most people worry about, like a few ounces here or there, what airfoil you use, etc. Stunt is all about *detail*.
Paul Walker .....
Man....that guy can do a pattern. A control line savant or does he practice a lot?
I don't know, he's OK, he gets lucky sometimes..
Actually, of course, PW is a 10- or 11- time National Champion, 5 in a row from 90 to 94, World Champ, and arguably the best who has ever flown stunt (on a very short list of about 4-5 that you could make a good argument about) and also almost certainly one of if not the best engineers who has ever done this. And also a Concours winner.
Brett
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I can't quite tell, but the hinge pins must be in line with the gap, or when you apply the seals, they will "roll" instead of flex/bend the tape. I make very small recesses to just accommodate the radius of the hinge barrels where it goes to the flat, the barrels themselves are entirely in the hinge line. Then, copying some guy from Seattle, I use a single wire hinge pin, so I can remove the flaps entirely after the hinges are glued in.
This hinge line stuff is WAY more important than what most people worry about, like a few ounces here or there, what airfoil you use, etc. Stunt is all about *detail*.
I don't know, he's OK, he gets lucky sometimes..
Actually, of course, PW is a 10- or 11- time National Champion, 5 in a row from 90 to 94, World Champ, and arguably the best who has ever flown stunt (on a very short list of about 4-5 that you could make a good argument about) and also almost certainly one of if not the best engineers who has ever done this. And also a Concours winner.
Brett
I sure am learning a lot on these comments. Sealing the gap....gonna have to search that. Just wanting to get into the air but I just know the competitive bug will bite. Then all this info will truly come into good use.
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Took me half the day to get the push rods, control horns and the likes fitted out. Wow...tried z-bends, L-bends, ball joints, clevis.
Forgot how fiddley this part is))))) And important.
Got the wing epoxied to the fuselage ....first round. Fillets next. Going by the instructions and waiting 24 hours a side for the 30 minute epoxy to really set.
While waiting I started building the 1/2 A electric Flite Streak for some close to home park practice. Got the wing framed up.
The hobby really grabs ya' when it grabs ya'. Fun going to bed with CA on my fingertips.
Shug
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Looking good, but I like Sigment as the CA is to hard to chew for this old man. LL~ LL~
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Looking good, but I like Sigment as the CA is to hard to chew for this old man. LL~ LL~
I thankee for that. Bet the Sigment tastes better than CA. Fun to spit those little bits across the room.....
Worked on the Baby Lightning Streak today.
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Step by step........boy am I an impatient modeler! Totally forgot how long it takes and how many layers there are to finishing a plane for flight. Control system took me a day to get right...if it is right.
Got the wing fillets done. Used epoxy and microballons. They look OK. I give myself a B- for my efforts. Maybe a C+
As the instruction for the Prowler say...."don't try for an award-winning finish" No problem there ^-^
Still deciding on all paint or just paint on fuselage and Ultracote on wings......fun decisions though.
Shug
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Shrug You cut the hinge notch in the wrong part. It needs to be in the flap.
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Shrug You cut the hinge notch in the wrong part. It needs to be in the flap.
Ideally, it is in both to a very slight degree. Recessing the hinge pin into the flap creates a similar problem as recessing it into the TE. This was discussed above.
Brett
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Shrug You cut the hinge notch in the wrong part. It needs to be in the flap.
Does it make a big difference? I may go back and fix 'em and go half and half. I do plan on sealing the gap.
Thanks for the input....the work continues.
By the way....I grew up in Charlotte. Do you fly out in Huntersville. Is it Waymer Field?
Carry forth.
Shug
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Ideally, it is in both to a very slight degree. Recessing the hinge pin into the flap creates a similar problem as recessing it into the TE. This was discussed above.
Brett
This I may do........a little on both.
Thanks for chiming in.
Shug
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Does it make a big difference? I may go back and fix 'em and go half and half. I do plan on sealing the gap.
I think it is worth a little effort to fill in the pockets. With Hot Stuff its a few minutes and some scrap balsa, and a sanding block. The issue is that the line of rotation will be in the wrong place to seal the hinges, and the seal will bind the controls up a bit.
Brett
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Does it make a big difference? I may go back and fix 'em and go half and half. I do plan on sealing the gap.
Thanks for the input....the work continues.
By the way....I grew up in Charlotte. . Do you fly out in Huntersville. Is it Waymer Field?
Carry forth.
Shug
Out in Coulwood off Hwy 16. West Meck High Class of 1976.....
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I think it is worth a little effort to fill in the pockets. With Hot Stuff its a few minutes and some scrap balsa, and a sanding block. The issue is that the line of rotation will be in the wrong place to seal the hinges, and the seal will bind the controls up a bit.
Brett
Then it shall be done. I do want it to fly right and true as I have some make-up practice to do. Would like to get a good pattern in time.
Appreciated.
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Got a weight tip box but kinda, sorta hesitant to cut into the wing end to mount it. May just save it for the plane I'll build after a beat this one up getting back into flying C/L.
Reckon I don't mind those weights dangling' off the end.
Will practice up with some 1/2 A to get spinning and getting the Ringmaster Jr in line. A member here is making me a muffler for the old Fox .15.
So hopefully by the time I finish this Prowler I will have had a bit of time in the air.
I can't wait.
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Had a good day working on the Prowler. Windy and rainy out and my wife was out with her Mom so I went at it.
Re-did those hinge gaps. Went half and half on them.
De-creased the rudder off-set. Did my lead outs. The articles on here were very helpful. Led me to look at the AMA way.
Sanded a bunch.
Started covering. Made the decision to go monocote and ultracote as I just want to get to flying and painting a stunt plane is un-familiar territory for me. I do want to do a paint job someday but for now.....I just need to get in the air and wring her out and practice some stunt.
Got the top half of the fuse covered and some flying surface edges. The wings and stab have my paper patterns on them so I can visualize the scheme and have patterns to cut the cote. Then I will hand cut my letters for the Prowler.....old school. OK....maybe I'll go decal.
I am a ham-fisted impatient modeler but hope to improve. Also worked on the Baby Lightning Streak a bit today too. Painting that one as it will be an electric model to fly in a local ball field.
Shug the impatient))))
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Shug,
The prowler looks great, good idea on the monocote,I is easy to get the prowler overweight, I flew one powered by a stock fp 35' ,then a randy smith fp 40 , great motor by Randy , , super flying bob hunt design , it took me from beginner to advanced, and taught me a lot about trim adjustments, with the controls exposed, it is easy to correct any problems with the flap/ elevator linkage
Yes we fly at Huntersville, it at at the old holbrooks road landfill, a super site, we put on two contest a year, if you are ever in town, look us up, we will bring a plane out for you to fly ,
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Before you stick that decal down that is where your AMA number should go and the decal on the inboard wing, Just a thought.
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Shug,
The prowler looks great, good idea on the monocote,I is easy to get the prowler overweight, I flew one powered by a stock fp 35' ,then a randy smith fp 40 , great motor by Randy , , super flying bob hunt design , it took me from beginner to advanced, and taught me a lot about trim adjustments, with the controls exposed, it is easy to correct any problems with the flap/ elevator linkage
Yes we fly at Huntersville, it at at the old holbrooks road landfill, a super site, we put on two contest a year, if you are ever in town, look us up, we will bring a plane out for you to fly ,
Thankee Will. I do have a Randy Smith OS .40 for it. Still needs break-in. Glad I went monocote....will get me finished sooner.
Thrilled to here the info on your Prowler. Already thinking of my next plane.
Years ago I went out to Huntersville and remember that field. This around 1991-93. They called the area Waymer field. I played football against David Waymer and had classes with him in the 7th grade. He was a top athlete. Sad about how his life turned. What a good guy. His Dad was always a refree and I think Waymer field is named after him.
I sure appreciate the offer to fly and the offer of a plane is truly nice. If I drive down to see my sisters I'll bring my plane. They live in Charlotte.
Before you stick that decal down that is where your AMA number should go and the decal on the inboard wing, Just a thought.
Yessir.......it is just there for placement as that right wing is the one comped up. I did re-new my AMA. Thanks.
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Then it shall be done. I do want it to fly right and true as I have some make-up practice to do. Would like to get a good pattern in time.
Appreciated.
I have never regretted doing something better. I have sometimes regretted settling for "good enough".
Just to prove my sincerity, here are the hinge slots in the TE of the wing. First, the TE is built up from 5 layers - (2) 1/4x3/8, (2) 1/32x3/8, and (1) 0.025x3/8. The thinner one in the middle is interrupted to leave the right gap for the hinge. I made it from 1/32 sanded down between two pieces of .025 music wire. The extra 1/32 were to make the thing thick enough. It was designed to use 5/16 for that, but I didn't have enough of that of the right grade. I built up the outside parts with the 1/32 strips attached to each 1/4. Not surprisingly, that warped them about 2" each, towards the glued up side. That't because the heat of the adhesive setting up dried the inner edge of the 1/4", plus a tiny bit of shrinkage. If you let it sit for a few months it would straighten out, but that's not necessary. Then I attached the interrupted 0.025 to one side. Then I stuck on the other side, flat on the table with wax paper to keep it from sticking, and up against the ruler you see. When it was done, it was dead straight.
Second picture is it applied to the TE of the wing. I glued it on with the PICA Gluit, the planed and sanded it to match the airfoil. It is critical to get it centered, so I used small T-Pins through the hinge slots stuck into pre-set holes in the foam. Mostly, you could probably get away with just feeling it with your fingers. So now the hinges are in a perfectly straight line, and perfectly centered. Of course the same thing happens to the front of the flap.
Left to do is to put a very small groove right down the middle of the TE to accommodate the single hinge pin, and to ROUND OFF the sharp edge to about 1/4" radius. It looks generally better to leave it beautifully sharp, but rounding it off makes the flow over the flap more consistent. I will wait on both of those until the wing joined, and for the groove, after it is covered with graphite, to make the groove sharper in the final product. On the flap, it gets the usual wedge shape, with point left a little blunt (like .025,) and the edges at the flap surface radiused for the same reason as radiusing the TE.
Last is the picture of the completed installation. The gap is quite intentional but sealed with hinge sealing tape per the previous post. It is also quite beat up after one too many hits into the doorframes at the Signature Inn in Muncie over the last 8 years.
This is typical construction for these types of airplanes, but it shows you how much emphasis we put on details. Getting this right is far more important than whether you use a 18% airfoil or a 22% airfoil, saving 2 ounces, or the other silly arguments we have to kill time in the winter.
Brett
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I have never regretted doing something better. I have sometimes regretted settling for "good enough".
Just to prove my sincerity, here are the hinge slots in the TE of the wing. First, the TE is built up from 5 layers - (2) 1/4x3/8, (2) 1/32x3/8, and (1) 0.025x3/8. The thinner one in the middle is interrupted to leave the right gap for the hinge. I made it from 1/32 sanded down between two pieces of .025 music wire. The extra 1/32 were to make the thing thick enough. It was designed to use 5/16 for that, but I didn't have enough of that of the right grade. I built up the outside parts with the 1/32 strips attached to each 1/4. Not surprisingly, that warped them about 2" each, towards the glued up side. That't because the heat of the adhesive setting up dried the inner edge of the 1/4", plus a tiny bit of shrinkage. If you let it sit for a few months it would straighten out, but that's not necessary. Then I attached the interrupted 0.025 to one side. Then I stuck on the other side, flat on the table with wax paper to keep it from sticking, and up against the ruler you see. When it was done, it was dead straight.
Second picture is it applied to the TE of the wing. I glued it on with the PICA Gluit, the planed and sanded it to match the airfoil. It is critical to get it centered, so I used small T-Pins through the hinge slots stuck into pre-set holes in the foam. Mostly, you could probably get away with just feeling it with your fingers. So now the hinges are in a perfectly straight line, and perfectly centered. Of course the same thing happens to the front of the flap.
Left to do is to put a very small groove right down the middle of the TE to accommodate the single hinge pin, and to ROUND OFF the sharp edge to about 1/4" radius. It looks generally better to leave it beautifully sharp, but rounding it off makes the flow over the flap more consistent. I will wait on both of those until the wing joined, and for the groove, after it is covered with graphite, to make the groove sharper in the final product. On the flap, it gets the usual wedge shape, with point left a little blunt (like .025,) and the edges at the flap surface radiused for the same reason as radiusing the TE.
Last is the picture of the completed installation. The gap is quite intentional but sealed with hinge sealing tape per the previous post. It is also quite beat up after one too many hits into the doorframes at the Signature Inn in Muncie over the last 8 years.
This is typical construction for these types of airplanes, but it shows you how much emphasis we put on details. Getting this right is far more important than whether you use a 18% airfoil or a 22% airfoil, saving 2 ounces, or the other silly arguments we have to kill time in the winter.
Brett
Wow.....you are serious))))) That is amazing. Someday I hope my skills and attention to detail reach that level.
Funny that I said to myself getting back into the hobby that I did not want to build. Hard to resist it though. Fun to be out in the shop working late.
Once I get my armada together maybe I can improve my building skills. in the meantime I will continue to peruse on here.
Many thanks.
Shug
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Wow.....you are serious))))) That is amazing. Someday I hope my skills and attention to detail reach that level.
This is pretty typical, and if I can do it, pretty much anyone can. This entire thing (hinge strips for the tail and wing, both sides, and sticking it to the wing/tail) took around an hour and the simplest of hand tools - a balsa stripper (the $5 one from Master Airscrew that everybody says is junk), and exacto knife, some but rulers from the hardware store, and the cheapest Great Planes sanding bars. Also a razor plane (the $5 one from Master Airscrew that everybody says is junk) and some masking tape. Absolutely nothing unusual aside from maybe the LMI Instrument Makers glue for which you could easily substitute Titebond (original) or or SIG Pro-Weld.
I have almost nothing that anyone couldn't get for cheap. About the most exotic tools I have for model airplanes are various perma-grit files and the amazingly useful perma-grit sanding block, and I do almost everything with hand tools (and design the airplane in a way not to require much machine work).
Brett
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This is pretty typical, and if I can do it, pretty much anyone can. This entire thing (hinge strips for the tail and wing, both sides, and sticking it to the wing/tail) took around an hour and the simplest of hand tools - a balsa stripper (the $5 one from Master Airscrew that everybody says is junk), and exacto knife, some but rulers from the hardware store, and the cheapest Great Planes sanding bars. Also a razor plane (the $5 one from Master Airscrew that everybody says is junk) and some masking tape. Absolutely nothing unusual aside from maybe the LMI Instrument Makers glue for which you could easily substitute Titebond (original) or or SIG Pro-Weld.
I have almost nothing that anyone couldn't get for cheap. About the most exotic tools I have for model airplanes are various perma-grit files and the amazingly useful perma-grit sanding block, and I do almost everything with hand tools (and design the airplane in a way not to require much machine work).
Brett
It is mighty fine to hear of folks doing wonderful modeling with what they have. True craftsman.
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Fun to be out in the shop working late.
Yes....until you open the garage door, see the sun starting to come up, and realize you have to be at PT formation in an hour.... LL~
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... a balsa stripper (the $5 one from Master Airscrew that everybody says is junk), Also a razor plane (the $5 one from Master Airscrew that everybody says is junk) ...
Brett
HAHAHAHAHAA!
I use the EXACT same ones and I think they are AWESOME!!!! These two little jewels make so much of it so easy.
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Yes....until you open the garage door, see the sun starting to come up, and realize you have to be at PT formation in an hour.... LL~
Now that IS Hard Core modeling. If your gonna do it....over do it!
Fly on and be vigilant.
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HAHAHAHAHAA!
I use the EXACT same ones and I think they are AWESOME!!!! These two little jewels make so much of it so easy.
Reckon you two fellers are scratch builders ?
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Reckon you two fellers are scratch builders ?
I think Doug just flies RC ARFs or something, maybe quadcopters. He uses the razor plane to peel oranges.
Brett
Here he is, in his natural habitat:
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I think Doug just flies RC ARFs or something, maybe quadcopters. He uses the razor plane to peel oranges.
Brett
Here he is, in his natural habitat:
A Champ.......good stuff.
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.....getting further along. Now just need to finish the top of wings, epoxy the hinges, hook all the hardware on, mount engine set my lines and maybe I'll get to fly soon. Been at this project more than you would know. Well....you all more than likely know)))))
This has been so fun and I have found it costs a wee bit to get back into all this.
Whooooo Buddy.
Shug
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A Champ.......good stuff.
This is my self-portrait.
Brett
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This is my self-portrait.
Brett
Haaaa...you may be my cousin)))))
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Whoooooooo Buddy. Got out of a family function today (begging helped) and finished up my covering job. Mounted the engine and tank. More than likely will fool with the tank some more. Had to strap on a 4 oz tank as the 4 1/2 oz tank sat a wee high. We'll see how that shakes out.
Bit nose heavy. Do I add tail weight? Hmmmmm.
Now to do my letters better and hinge the flaps and tail. Then some bench trimming and hopefully the maiden soon. Still need to break the OS .40 in some more.
Going to re-up with the Minneapolis Piston Poppers and hope to share their circle.
Pretty happy with the scheme....looking forward to painting a ship one day when I have a bit more time. And patience.
This has been real fun to finish after all those years sitting in my Nut-Hut.
Now I long to feel the pull of the lines.
This site has been helpful and inspirational.
Shug
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You did an outstanding job!
Looks great.
I would leave it nose heavy on first flights.
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You have done a really good job, It looks great. I hope it fly's as well as it looks for you.
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Ditto, on the nose heavy. At least it will come back so you can change it. Looks great.
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You did an outstanding job!
Looks great.
I would leave it nose heavy on first flights.
Thanks a bunch. Gonna double check the CG today and glue the hinges. Seems more nose heavy than I need but true...better than tail heavy.
You have done a really good job, It looks great. I hope it fly's as well as it looks for you.
Many thanks on that. I am pleased with the colors. Inspired by a flight on Lufthansa. I'm excited and jittery for the first flight as it has been many years since I have flown. Warming up with 1/2 As to get prepared....as soon as the wind dies a bit.
Ditto, on the nose heavy. At least it will come back so you can change it. Looks great.
True words I reckon. Thank you for chiming in. This site has been really helpful.
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Beautiful job. I loved mine. Had an Randy tuned OS .32 on a pipe. You are going to love your Randy .40.
W.
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Shug, that is one beautiful Prowler. y1 With the Randy .40FP it should be a great flying model! My son built one and used a .40FP, it was one of the best flying profiles we have had. Good luck!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Beautiful job. I loved mine. Had an Randy tuned OS .32 on a pipe. You are going to love your Randy .40.
W.
Thank you a bunch. Loved? Did it meet it's demise? That Randy .40 is running nicely on the bench. Still breaking it in.
Thanks again. Good to hear from names I recognize!
Shug, that is one beautiful Prowler. y1 With the Randy .40FP it should be a great flying model! My son built one and used a .40FP, it was one of the best flying profiles we have had. Good luck!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Hearing that pumps me up even more)))) Got the hinges done today and the hinge lines sealed. Letter cut and put on. Now to set my lines and get out there to fly!
Many thanks. I am happy with it. Not perfect but looks good from 3 feet away.
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Fully dress the Prowler comes in at 40 ounces. Happy about that!
Was expecting 44ounces.
Shug
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Looking for a PDF of the Prowler plan, I want to build up the swept wing with fabric covered ribs no foam?
Steve
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Looking for a PDF of the Prowler plan, I want to build up the swept wing with fabric covered ribs no foam?
Steve
Bob Hunt may have plans or check his RD 1 plane too.
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7437 (https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7437)
Shug
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I do have plans for the Prowler. I also have - i case anyone is interested - a Lost-Foam fixture set for the Prowler wing that features Warren Truss ribbing. It has been used once and is in excellent shape. I also have the leading edge mold bucks for that Lost-Foam fixture set that allows you to make the molded leading edge shells. I'm offering this LF set at a very reduced price. If you are interested, please PM me on this site.
Later - Bob Hunt
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Bob,
I'd be great if you could send me a copy or the e mail me the PDF, the foam wing fixture sounds interesting but for now I want to make a built up version. I have the RD-1 plan off the Outerzone site as Shug has pointed out but I'd like a Prowler plan with the swept wing.
Thanks,
Steve
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Steve, the foam wing fixture is used to build a built up wing, commonly referred to as a "lost foam" fixture. The wing is built in the fixture to hold it true and straight and believe me, they come out that way - true, straight, and light! And no foam.
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Bob, Now that Will has explained more about the Lost Foam fixture and other items I'd be very interested in them.
I'll PM you to discuss.
Steve
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Hi Gents,
Where can I read up more on the Lost foam fixture method of making wings ? Many thanks in advance.
Chris
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Hi Chris:
I have a manual that is in PDF format, and it's free to anyone who will send me a request with their email address. I'll even throw in a few other PDF manuals that may be of interest.
Send your request to robinhunt@rcn.com
Later - Bob Hunt
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The only problem is that once you build a wing in one of Bob's lost foam Jigs you'll never want to build any other way. Definitely the quickest, straightest, possible way to build a wing.
I have about a dozen different ones, and I'm hooked!
Welcome to the Genius of Mr Hunt!
Randy Cuberly
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Hi Chris:
I have a manual that is in PDF format, and it's free to anyone who will send me a request with their email address. I'll even throw in a few other PDF manuals that may be of interest.
Send your request to robinhunt@rcn.com
Later - Bob Hunt
Many Thanks Bob an Email has been sent.
Also Thanks Randy for the encouragement.
Chris
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My pleasure, Chris. Check your in box for the sent files.
Enjoy - Bob
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My pleasure, Chris. Check your in box for the sent files.
Enjoy - Bob
Bob, Ive not seen this lost foam jig you developed. Can you, or someone else, post a picture of it?
Gary
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Hi Gary:
Send me your email address and I'll send you a bunch of stuff on the Lost-Foam system and a few other things as well.
My email address is robinhunt@rcn.com
Later - Bob
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Bob Hunt may have plans or check his RD 1 plane too.
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7437 (https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7437)
Shug
It's a shame the plane has been suspended on Outerzone …..
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This response will most likely not make me too popular here.
I was the one who contacted Outerzone and asked that the plan for my RD-1 design be taken off their site. The RD-1 was published in Flying Models magazine, and is the still the property of that plans service. It is also an intellectual property. Neither Flying Models nor I see a dime from the release of that drawing, and that my friends is theft.
There is entirely too much of this going on throughout our hobby. Those who produce designs and those who publish said designs are entitled to a return on their work/investment. In the case of Outerzone, the plan PDF is free, and those who download it can then take the PDF on disk to Staples or some other printer and have a copy made from which they can build. Does that seem fair to the designer, and/or the owner of the plan? This is a hobby, and many do not realize that for some it is a livelihood. Where would we be without the producers/sellers of engines, balsa, batteries, fuel, etc.? Are those who toil to produce designs any less deserving of an income from their work?
I was the editor of Flying Models magazine for 17 years, and during my tenure there I strove to publish as many CL Stunt models as possible. Some years after I left that post the magazine ceased publishing, but the owner of the magazine continued to offer the many plans that had been published over the years through the internet. Is he not deserving of a return on his investment? I don't receive a nickel for any of the plans of models that I designed from the FM plan service; they belong to the new owner.
I offer several plans for my original design models for sale through Robin's View Productions. Think how I would feel if those plans were being offered in PDF form by another entity for free. I know, I know, I know, "It's only a hobby." But it is how I make a good portion of my living. Without product there would be no hobby. Those who produce the stuff we use to build our models have devoted their lives to making those necessary items available; they deserve an income from their work just as someone who works in the "real world" deserves an income. This seems hard for many to understand.
For the record, the RD-1 plan is available from the Flying Models Plan Service at: https://store.flying-models.com/catalog/
I'll get a lot of negative responses from this post I'm sure. To those who don't agree with the above, well, that's tough. There are many of us who have spent our entire lives giving to this hobby/sport in many ways, and we have made very little for our efforts. Yes, the choice to serve the hobby industry was ours; no one held a gun to our head's and made us stay in this line of work. I can't speak for the others, but in my case it was a labor of love, and I tried to give far more value than that for which I was paid. I also have tried to give out as much information for free as possible. I don't believe that information is something I should sell; I benefitted from the help of others throughout my career and now I feel it is a responsibility to pass along that information, and any new information that I have gleaned over the years to anyone who will but ask. I have many PDF manuals that are well illustrated and cover a variety of building subjects. I'll continue to offer those and any new ones for free. But, the products and intellectual properties (plans) that I produce are for sale. I like to eat and keep warm...
In continued service to the hobby - Bob Hunt
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Bob I agree with you 100% on this. It's your work,you need to get paid.
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Thanks for the support, Skip, but in the case of the RD-1 plan it is Thayer Syme - owner of the FM plans service - that needs to get paid...
Thanks - Bob
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Bob, there isn't a word in your post that any sensible person would disagree with. Well stated and exactly on point. Only recently have I got back into the hobby and I am digging into it far deeper than I had in the past. Guys like you, who make the things we use, are the reason the hobby continues at all.
Thank you for all you do.
Gary
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Yes,
All Points noted Bob and Many Thanks again for all your help and all the PDF'S you have sent to me.
Chris H^^
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My apologies Bob. I had no idea but was just trying to help that feller out.
You still are and always will be popular with me!
Shug
This response will most likely not make me too popular here.
I was the one who contacted Outerzone and asked that the plan for my RD-1 design be taken off their site. The RD-1 was published in Flying Models magazine, and is the still the property of that plans service. It is also an intellectual property. Neither Flying Models nor I see a dime from the release of that drawing, and that my friends is theft.
There is entirely too much of this going on throughout our hobby. Those who produce designs and those who publish said designs are entitled to a return on their work/investment. In the case of Outerzone, the plan PDF is free, and those who download it can then take the PDF on disk to Staples or some other printer and have a copy made from which they can build. Does that seem fair to the designer, and/or the owner of the plan? This is a hobby, and many do not realize that for some it is a livelihood. Where would we be without the producers/sellers of engines, balsa, batteries, fuel, etc.? Are those who toil to produce designs any less deserving of an income from their work?
I was the editor of Flying Models magazine for 17 years, and during my tenure there I strove to publish as many CL Stunt models as possible. Some years after I left that post the magazine ceased publishing, but the owner of the magazine continued to offer the many plans that had been published over the years through the internet. Is he not deserving of a return on his investment? I don't receive a nickel for any of the plans of models that I designed from the FM plan service; they belong to the new owner.
I offer several plans for my original design models for sale through Robin's View Productions. Think how I would feel if those plans were being offered in PDF form by another entity for free. I know, I know, I know, "It's only a hobby." But it is how I make a good portion of my living. Without product there would be no hobby. Those who produce the stuff we use to build our models have devoted their lives to making those necessary items available; they deserve an income from their work just as someone who works in the "real world" deserves an income. This seems hard for many to understand.
For the record, the RD-1 plan is available from the Flying Models Plan Service at: https://store.flying-models.com/catalog/
I'll get a lot of negative responses from this post I'm sure. To those who don't agree with the above, well, that's tough. There are many of us who have spent our entire lives giving to this hobby/sport in many ways, and we have made very little for our efforts. Yes, the choice to serve the hobby industry was ours; no one held a gun to our head's and made us stay in this line of work. I can't speak for the others, but in my case it was a labor of love, and I tried to give far more value than that for which I was paid. I also have tried to give out as much information for free as possible. I don't believe that information is something I should sell; I benefitted from the help of others throughout my career and now I feel it is a responsibility to pass along that information, and any new information that I have gleaned over the years to anyone who will but ask. I have many PDF manuals that are well illustrated and cover a variety of building subjects. I'll continue to offer those and any new ones for free. But, the products and intellectual properties (plans) that I produce are for sale. I like to eat and keep warm...
In continued service to the hobby - Bob Hunt
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Hi Shug:
You did nothing wrong; you had no idea about who owned what, or who's intellectual rights were being stomped on. Please do not feel bad in any way. By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed our recent long phone conversation. You are an amazing individual with some outstanding talents. I'd love to be able to jam with you sometime. I play a lot with a mandolin player at open mics, and just love the sound of an acoustic guitar and mandolin together.
Okay, on a different note... In the interest of full disclosure, I was asked to print and send a copy of the Prowler plan to one forum member. Then it hit me, that I gave permission to Scott Smith to kit the Prowler through his Aerosmith company. I received no compensation for the design, nor did I ask for any. I drew the pencil plans and Steve Buso did a fantastic job of inking them for Scottie. He sold a number of those kits and the design seemed to be very popular with the builders/owners of them. Then Scottie sold Aerosmith to another entity. I did not okay the sale of the Prowler design (kit or plan) to that new entity.
I had a nice chat about this with Steve Buso yesterday. He told me that he never received any monies for inking the plan either; he did it as a favor for his good friend, Scottie. We were both happy to help Scottie in any way we could. I'm sad to report that Scottie passed away recently from a brain tumor. I spoke with his wife, Karen, and extended the condolences of the entire modeling community for her loss. Scottie was a really great and talented fellow.
So, I feel that the Prowler design is still my intellectual property, and I will offer plans for it. The plan will be the very detailed kit plan that Steve inked. I'll also send Steve a percentage of each sale for his work in inking the plan.
While we are on this subject, I want to be transparent on one other plan/design issue. A few years back I started offering plans for the Cal Smith-designed Frisky Pete Old Time Stunt model. That model was presented in a book that was published by the long defunct Mechanics Illustrated publishing group. Cal had passed away long before I started offering that plan, but I made an extensive search for any surviving family that Cal might have to ask permission to offer that plan, and to offer to pay them a percentage of each sale if permission was granted. The AMA helped here a lot, but even they could not find any trace of a family linked to Cal. Reluctantly I offered the plan. I didn't sell very many. I decided to send a $2.00 donation to AMA in Cal's memory for each plan sold. Instead of sending just $2.00 each time I sold a plan, I decided to wait until I sold a number of them and then send a significant check to the AMA Scholarship Fund in Cal's name. To date I have not sent a check because I didn't sell many plans. I will send them a check this week because I'll feel like a hypocrite over all this pirating of design stuff if I don't. The amount will be a bit less than fifty bucks due to the low sales volume of that plan, but at least I'll be living up to my promise.
Trying to do the right thing... Bob
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Hi Shug:
You did nothing wrong; you had no idea about who owned what, or who's intellectual rights were being stomped on. Please do not feel bad in any way. By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed our recent long phone conversation. You are an amazing individual with some outstanding talents. I'd love to be able to jam with you sometime. I play a lot with a mandolin player at open mics, and just love the sound of an acoustic guitar and mandolin together.
Okay, on a different note... In the interest of full disclosure, I was asked to print and send a copy of the Prowler plan to one forum member. Then it hit me, that I gave permission to Scott Smith to kit the Prowler through his Aerosmith company. I received no compensation for the design, nor did I ask for any. I drew the pencil plans and Steve Buso did a fantastic job of inking them for Scottie. He sold a number of those kits and the design seemed to be very popular with the builders/owners of them. Then Scottie sold Aerosmith to another entity. I did not okay the sale of the Prowler design (kit or plan) to that new entity.
I had a nice chat about this with Steve Buso yesterday. He told me that he never received any monies for inking the plan either; he did it as a favor for his good friend, Scottie. We were both happy to help Scottie in any way we could. I'm sad to report that Scottie passed away recently from a brain tumor. I spoke with his wife, Karen, and extended the condolences of the entire modeling community for her loss. Scottie was a really great and talented fellow.
So, I feel that the Prowler design is still my intellectual property, and I will offer plans for it. The plan will be the very detailed kit plan that Steve inked. I'll also send Steve a percentage of each sale for his work in inking the plan.
While we are on this subject, I want to be transparent on one other plan/design issue. A few years back I started offering plans for the Cal Smith-designed Frisky Pete Old Time Stunt model. That model was presented in a book that was published by the long defunct Mechanics Illustrated publishing group. Cal had passed away long before I started offering that plan, but I made an extensive search for any surviving family that Cal might have to ask permission to offer that plan, and to offer to pay them a percentage of each sale if permission was granted. The AMA helped here a lot, but even they could not find any trace of a family linked to Cal. Reluctantly I offered the plan. I didn't sell very many. I decided to send a $2.00 donation to AMA in Cal's memory for each plan sold. Instead of sending just $2.00 each time I sold a plan, I decided to wait until I sold a number f them and then send a significant check to the AMA Scholarship Fund in Cal's name. To date I have not sent a check because I didn't sell many plans. I will send them a check this week because I'll feel like a hypocrite over all this pirating of design stuff if I don't. The amount will be a bit less than fifty bucks due to the low sales volume of that plan, but at least I'll be living up to my promise.
Trying to do the right thing... Bob
Your a class act Bubba
Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
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Amen to that. H^^ H^^ H^^