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Author Topic: Progress update in my Novice training  (Read 8120 times)

Offline RknRusty

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Progress update in my Novice training
« on: July 30, 2013, 11:59:59 PM »
Well, considering I've only tried to fly the beginner pattern a couple of times, it would be sad if I didn't make some progress. But so many members here have been bending over backwards to give me helpful advice, I thought I should let y'all know it hasn't been in vain.

So I packed up the Shoestring and went to the field with my new flying buddy, Wayne. Though he doesn't much use a computer, and forums are unknown to him, he mentions some of your names when telling me about stunt flying. His name is Wayne Robinson, from South Carolina. He's a judge at some events his club sponsors including the contest coming up in October that I want to enter... if I'm capable by then. The club is Metrolina Control Line Society. If today is any indication, I think I can give it a go. I had originally thought maybe I would train for OTS, but since it turns out the Shoestring doesn't qualify, today I practiced the AMA pattern.

She flew well today. My first flight was my usual overexcited rush, and it showed, with tight gut wrenching loops, too low to the ground. But I calmed down after that and got good critique from Wayne. It sure is easier to concentrate when you have someone to help, instead of stooge flying. My next flights went better, and I got a good portion of the beginner pattern done fairly respectably. After taking the advice Wayne offered, I did better bigger rounder inside loops and kept all three in the same circle. He insisted I start a little higher, and that helped. My outsides were all on track, but he said they were still too tight. My figure 8s also were of decent shape, but again too small. He called them tiny, holding up two "o"s with his fingers. That seems to be the hardest advice to follow, using all of the air. I know I'm sounding like a broken record about that. Still blaming it on decades of wild 1/2A flying. Anyway, I wouldn't have believed it, considering my previous attempts, but my square loops were today's crown jewel. I did use the full height with those. I didn't do any overhead 8s. My takeoffs were jumpy, but the bumpy grass field makes that difficult. And my landings were no beauty either, though I only nosed over once, and never an unplanned landing. So, I'm happy with that. I showed some real improvement. I still haven't thought enough about my body position and foot planting. But Wayne did help me with starting and following through with my wingovers. Maybe some of it will develop naturally, but there's so much to commit to memory, I'll gradually tune up as I practice.

I wanted someone who knows how a plane of this type is supposed to feel to test fly it, so Wayne took the controls and flew the whole pattern. Nicely done, it was a pleasure to watch my plane do what Carl Goldberg meant for it to do. He reported that the plane has no bad habits and felt really good. I was happy to hear that. Now my rebuilding job has the official seal of approval, so I'll quit referring to it as the Epoxy Bomb.

I set up the camera, but never gave it another thought, so no video today. I also flew the Baby Flite Streak for relaxing fun, and that Tee Dee .051 continues to be a wonderful screamer. Fast smooth runs and nice clear pink exhaust oil. Best plane I've ever built. Wayne flew his hand-me-down.40 Nobler too

So that's my flight report today. Don't know if I'll get the SS out again before next week. At the Brodak, he picked me up me some new un-bent landing gear for it that I need to put on, and I need to harden the fuse where it mounts. The old bent and plier straightened gear is compressing the wood. Maybe I'll fill the old holes and put  fiberglass patches over the fuse where they squeeze it, and re-bore the boles.

So thanks for all the advice and I'll continue to pay attention to it.
Rusty
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 01:39:45 AM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline Noel Corney

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 03:04:33 AM »
No substitute for air time and a coach.good work.  Keep it up .Regards , Noel.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 03:07:21 AM »
No substitute for air time and a coach.good work.  Keep it up .Regards , Noel.
Thanks, Noel. You getting any outdoor fun time in the Winter weather down there?
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
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Offline Noel Corney

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2013, 03:46:40 AM »
Do not fly C/L any more as arthritis stops me from holding the handle for any length of time however I have been coaching when needed. I have been doing a lot of slope soaring this year. Regards , Noel.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2013, 09:02:06 AM »
Moderators: Rather than cluttering up the forum, I should have put this in my "Trying to learn to fly my Shoestring" thread.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=32178.0
If you would like to merge the threads, that's fine with me. Sorry about that.
Thanks,
Rusty

DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2013, 09:13:12 AM »
Too late now to change.  This reminds me of a fellow flyer I used to fly with.  He was getting into stunt big time with engines, planes and what not.   His previous experience was radio control.  He was learning the Beginner Pattern and wanted help.   I had been watching him fly most of the AMA pattern.   His problem was the Clover.   I flew a pattern or sort of a pattern and then explained the clover to him.   He then proceeded to do the AMA  pattern.  I convinced him  he was past beginner and he should fly Intermediate.   His first contest was the annual TOPClass meet and he flew Intermediate.   There was no Beginners entered by the way.   He took intermediate easily and either placed second or first at contests the rest of the season.  Then he took up flying real full size gliders, he was already a licensed power pilot, and sky  diving.   The last time I seen him when he came by the house, he said he is in the Fort Worth TX area and flying stunt again. 
Anyway in your part of the country you had better get good coaching on your beginner pattern as I know they have a few competitors down that way.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 09:24:47 AM »
He's a judge at some events his club sponsors including the contest coming up in October that I want to enter... if I'm capable by then.

In my humble opinion, here's the minimum you need to be capable of to enter Beginner in a contest:

You need to be able to take off.

You need to be able to get the plane up scary-high (whatever that may be for you).

You need to be able to land.

You need to be able to walk up to the judges and say "my wingover may be a bit low".

That's it.

If you can actually get the airplane more or less over your head, then you won't have to talk to the judges.

I wasted about two years trying to get myself to the point that I could do the whole beginner pattern.  I finally broke down and just entered a contest even though I couldn't do the vertical eights, and tended to crash on the horizontal eights.  I did fine, and I progressed a heck of a lot faster after competing than I did before.

So c'mon!  Jump in!  The water's warm here at the shallow end of the pool, and none of us can swim all that well either!
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2013, 10:42:55 AM »
Well, considering I've only tried to fly the beginner pattern a couple of times, it would be sad if I didn't make some progress. But so many members here have been bending over backwards to give me helpful advice, I thought I should let y'all know it hasn't been in vain.

<<snip rest of description>>

     Sounds like you are doing all the right things, just keep it up! Having someone to fly with certainly helps give perspective on what you are doing.

    Everybody here has been in the same boat, the more experienced will almost fall over themselves trying to help because most of us didn't have access to this level of help, and try to help others avoid the same pitfalls. People *want* to help. The biggest problem now is that people go overboard and can become overbearing or oppressive in their zeal.

    Need to start working on another airplane so when the inevitable happens, you can keep going. There's certainly plenty of information available on that topic, just search!

    Brett

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 11:29:00 AM »
    Everybody here has been in the same boat, the more experienced will almost fall over themselves trying to help because most of us didn't have access to this level of help, and try to help others avoid the same pitfalls. People *want* to help. The biggest problem now is that people go overboard and can become overbearing or oppressive in their zeal.

I thought it was because I want to have more club members who are checked out on the lawn mower.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 01:13:18 PM »
   ....Need to start working on another airplane so when the inevitable happens, you can keep going. There's certainly plenty of information available on that topic, just search!

    Brett
Yep, I'm aware of the inevitable, though It'll be a sad day. I have a Sterling Yak-9 on the table right now. Just got the bellcrank and leadouts installed, and thinking about the flaps. This one is slow going so far. Sterling made it hard work to do a good job on these old kits. You could beat someone to death with the LE stick and fuse if you had to.

I thought it was because I want to have more club members who are checked out on the lawn mower.
Haha That too, Tim! In fact I am scheduled for exactly that. We have some sort of fast growing weed with seeds at the top. Looks a little like grass seed but darker. Every time Wayne landed his Nobler the other day, it would whip over the LE and pop a hole in his covering. It's iron-on of unknown origin, nobody knows who built the plane. I'm guessing it's old brittle Monokote. It doesn't hurt mine.

P.S. Hey, I'm a Commander now.:D What is that, just post count?
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 01:37:25 PM »
Haha That too, Tim! In fact I am scheduled for exactly that. We have some sort of fast growing weed with seeds at the top. Looks a little like grass seed but darker. Every time Wayne landed his Nobler the other day, it would whip over the LE and pop a hole in his covering. It's iron-on of unknown origin, nobody knows who built the plane. I'm guessing it's old brittle Monokote. It doesn't hurt mine.

We get some little yellow flower that pops up about two inches above the grass and develops a bud, all in a few days.  They're almost perfectly evolved for snagging lines -- and more so in late August when they dry up.  It's like God decided on Day 3 that he was going to make life difficult for control line fliers, even if it was going to be millennia before he gave us Obey St Claire and Jim Walker.

P.S. Hey, I'm a Commander now.:D What is that, just post count?

It's just post count.  I'm an admiral, but that just means I'm mouthy.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2013, 02:27:48 PM »

P.S. Hey, I'm a Commander now.:D What is that, just post count?

  I think it's the post count. I am still an Admiral even though my rating is -94 and dropping.

   Brett

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2013, 02:59:15 PM »
  I think it's the post count. I am still an Admiral even though my rating is -94 and dropping.

   Brett

You pissed off someone with a lot of time on their hands?  If the ratings were on a "one person one vote" system then I'd give them a lot more weight -- but if they were Robert would need to have an enormous database somewhere with users2 entries in it, that would have to be extended every time a user joined up.  You'd click '+' and the site would go down for fifteen seconds for all of us, then it'd come back again.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 07:00:11 AM »
I just went to look at the rate you guys are talking about.  Don't know what you gentlemen did, but it must have been bad.  But, like I've been told in Church we are not here to judge people before we judge ourselves.  I think I should be a minus something.   But, then I notice it is showing our age.  Now I have something to brag about.  I am now older than I have ever been and still getting older.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2013, 07:36:39 AM »
Boy, Brett, you really took a dive since yesterday. I've given most of you guys a + in the last few days. It makes you wait an hour between giving out another rating. Someone out there likes me so far, I'm a +2. #^
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
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George Hostler

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2013, 07:45:55 AM »
I have a Sterling Yak-9 on the table right now. Just got the bellcrank and leadouts installed, and thinking about the flaps. This one is slow going so far. Sterling made it hard work to do a good job on these old kits. You could beat someone to death with the LE stick and fuse if you had to.
Yup, balsa the density of white pine, LOL. Midwest wasn't too far behind either. Makes for heavier planes, but were rebuildable, too.  ~>

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2013, 11:31:44 PM »
I flew the full beginner pattern today. Yes it was ugly and some of the stunts were aborted before fully executed, like my squares. I had trouble stringing two of them together, though I did some nice shaped ones. Of course I got an ugly one on camera. Even my loops were not very good. But at least I would have gotten points for a full performance. I'm still baffled at how hard this is to do correctly. I did manage a double OH8... sorta. My horizontal 8 in the video is a single too. I don't even know how many flights I flew, but only recorded one. I was doing my last flight of the day, in the middle of an OH8 when the lines went slack. I barely recovered it with a hard yank, and managed to pull out and level off inverted... my muscle memory is improving and my reflexes pulled the correct line in a panic situation... I was proud for a second, and then my UP leadout loop popped. Several loops later she pancaked inverted and sheared the rudder off, and both prop blades. It was time to pack and go. That was the plan already.

My coach says I'm coming along well and beginners don't often get an attempt at all of the stunts in order by the second day of practice. So I guess I should be happy, but I'm my own worst critic. Wanna guess the hardest part for me today?...There was not enough wind. It was hard to tell where it was coming from, and a light breeze still screws with the tracking a lot. I've done prettier loops and such with a stiff breeze at my back.

So she gets new leadouts, and the rudder just broke where it had been broken before. No other damage. She's a tough old bird, thank goodness, 'cause I'm sure punishing it.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Noel Corney

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2013, 12:01:52 AM »
Like I tell all my students and it sounds weird, You have to RELAXXX and CONCENTRATE at the same time.I know you have some old kits to build but the kits today are inexpensive now and better quality.Once you get a little more confident go for a newer kit, even a Flite Streak KIT not ARF is a good practice tool,  Quick and easy to build ,Then go for a Fancherirsed Twister .Just my thoughts. Regards , Noel.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2013, 03:01:43 AM »
Like I tell all my students and it sounds weird, You have to RELAXXX and CONCENTRATE at the same time.I know you have some old kits to build but the kits today are inexpensive now and better quality.Once you get a little more confident go for a newer kit, even a Flite Streak KIT not ARF is a good practice tool,  Quick and easy to build ,Then go for a Fancherirsed Twister .Just my thoughts. Regards , Noel.
Ever since I built my first Baby Streak, I've wanted a big one. The Baby is the finest 1/2A I've ever flown and I suspect the big one wouldn't disappoint. I wish they came as a flapped kit, but if I'm not mistaken, they aren't. I'll be looking. Meanwhile I'm on the way to finishing the old Sterling Yak-9. It's quite a challenge for a kit, certainly honing my building skills. I kind of like the Cardinal too, but never flown one.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2013, 09:54:05 AM »
The Sig kits really build easy.

My first serious ship was flapped.  I lucked out and got a garage-sale Skyray, at about the same time that Brett Buck and others were pushing me to fly flapless for a while.

Unless your coach is willing to trim out your airplanes, and maybe even then, seriously consider going flapless.  There's a lot fewer adjustments to worry about with a flapless plane, and those adjustments that you do have are much less critical.  There's less stuff to break when the ground rises up and grabs your plane, and its easier to fix everything.

I didn't start a flapped plane again until I'd been flying intermediate for a while, and I'm happy with my decision to stick with Skyrays and lengthened Flight Streaks.

Keep in mind that if your Yak-9 kit is flapped, you can always build it with fixed flaps.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2013, 10:21:22 AM »
I'm already an Admiral, and I'm looking for a promotion.  What's higher than Admiral?

Floyd
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 11:03:28 AM »
I'm already an Admiral, and I'm looking for a promotion.  What's higher than Admiral?

  Field Marshall? Unterfuhrer?

    Brett

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2013, 11:06:48 AM »
I'm already an Admiral, and I'm looking for a promotion.  What's higher than Admiral?

Floyd

First Sea Lord of the Admiralty.
Steve

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2013, 01:35:35 PM »
The Sig kits really build easy.

My first serious ship was flapped.  I lucked out and got a garage-sale Skyray, at about the same time that Brett Buck and others were pushing me to fly flapless for a while.

Unless your coach is willing to trim out your airplanes, and maybe even then, seriously consider going flapless.  There's a lot fewer adjustments to worry about with a flapless plane, and those adjustments that you do have are much less critical.  There's less stuff to break when the ground rises up and grabs your plane, and its easier to fix everything.

I didn't start a flapped plane again until I'd been flying intermediate for a while, and I'm happy with my decision to stick with Skyrays and lengthened Flight Streaks.

Keep in mind that if your Yak-9 kit is flapped, you can always build it with fixed flaps.

Your Eminences,
Sounds like good advice. Sounds like much less potential for sadness at my early stage of the game. Not too long ago, I thought I was more capable of handling all of the complexities of precision stunt, but the simple, and thankfully forgiving, Shoestring has put me in my place. That's a good thing. My enthusiasm just had me fooling myself.

Some time ago I wanted to take a Baby Flite Streak design, and cut it to look like an RTF Cox Hyper-Viper. Here's my drawing(with flaps). All critical dimensions are still Flite Streak. It's an illusion that the nose is longer. I could scale it up to fly with my Thunder Tiger when the SS is worn out.

Here it is... Pretty cool, huh.


DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
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Offline Will Davis

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2013, 02:07:34 PM »
Rusty,

Glad you are making good progress, looks like your first contest will be at Huntersville in October, it will be good timing for advancements .   your drawing looks somewhat like this model of a aeromite rtf from the 60's, great lines and will make a good looking stunt plane,
Will Davis
"Carolina Gang"

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2013, 02:54:58 PM »
Rusty,

Glad you are making good progress, looks like your first contest will be at Huntersville in October, it will be good timing for advancements .   your drawing looks somewhat like this model of a aeromite rtf from the 60's, great lines and will make a good looking stunt plane,
Hi Will.
Something like that, with the long stretch in front of the canopy.
I'm looking forward to meeting you and the rest of the Carolina Gang in Huntersville. Wayne always shows me pictures of y'all in his Control line magazines. By the time October comes, I should be able to at least get some points for a complete attempt. Boy, some days I can't even fly a round loop, and other days... well, I guess everyone knows that feeling. yesterday was like that. But Wayne keeps me focused on the things that matter now, when I start trying to think about too much. I'm glad we've hooked up, he's a good tutor.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2013, 07:13:35 PM »
I would suggest setting the Yak 9 aside for a while.  A friend is flying a Brodak big Flite Streak with an LA 25, with very good success.  I think if you go that route you will have an airplane which will really please you and help you develop right along.  My friend has fixed leadouts in his Flite Streak, as shown on the plans. Mine have had adjustable leadouts.  The Jr. Flite Streak with a TD 09 was a favorite airplane.  I won Classic with it at a local contest, and successfully flew a pattern with it in a hurricane at one of the past VSCs. It was a survival pattern and parts were not a thing of beauty. 

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2013, 07:23:31 PM »
I would suggest setting the Yak 9 aside for a while.  A friend is flying a Brodak big Flite Streak with an LA 25, with very good success.  I think if you go that route you will have an airplane which will really please you and help you develop right along.  My friend has fixed leadouts in his Flite Streak, as shown on the plans. Mine have had adjustable leadouts.  The Jr. Flite Streak with a TD 09 was a favorite airplane.  I won Classic with it at a local contest, and successfully flew a pattern with it in a hurricane at one of the past VSCs. It was a survival pattern and parts were not a thing of beauty. 

   Agree for sure about the Yak. If that's all there is, then by all means fly it, but something a little more capable will make it a lot easier. Full-size Flite Streak (and of them) with an 25LA/9-4 APC is a very potent combination.

    At this point I would probably want to avoid TD's and the like (too fragile and new parts are not forthcoming). That leaves the "Junior" versions of any of the big models problematic because there aren't a lot of appropriate engines for them. A 15LA is FAR too much power/speed for most people to deal with. A 15LA would fly a full-size Streak reasonably well.

    Brett

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2013, 08:06:27 PM »
I would suggest setting the Yak 9 aside for a while.  A friend is flying a Brodak big Flite Streak with an LA 25, with very good success.  I think if you go that route you will have an airplane which will really please you and help you develop right along.  My friend has fixed leadouts in his Flite Streak, as shown on the plans. Mine have had adjustable leadouts.  The Jr. Flite Streak with a TD 09 was a favorite airplane.  I won Classic with it at a local contest, and successfully flew a pattern with it in a hurricane at one of the past VSCs. It was a survival pattern and parts were not a thing of beauty. 
   Agree for sure about the Yak. If that's all there is, then by all means fly it, but something a little more capable will make it a lot easier. Full-size Flite Streak (and of them) with an 25LA/9-4 APC is a very potent combination.

    At this point I would probably want to avoid TD's and the like (too fragile and new parts are not forthcoming). That leaves the "Junior" versions of any of the big models problematic because there aren't a lot of appropriate engines for them. A 15LA is FAR too much power/speed for most people to deal with. A 15LA would fly a full-size Streak reasonably well.

    Brett

Well, the Yak was a gift from a friend, so I'm going to honor it with the best build I can, and finish it. It'll probably be a sport flier. I think a full sized Streak appeals to me more than anything as a replacement for the SS. That'll probably be a Winter or Spring project. I'll have to save up for a while before I can buy the kit, as I'm really breaking the bank with my current modeling endeauvors. But, be it a Steak or not, I am going to follow y'all's advice and go with a fixed flap plane for next Summer's flying.

The SS is on the table right now, belly up having abdominal surgery for new leadouts(after popping one yesterday). And the bellcrank punched a small hole in the #1 rib that it gets stuck in at full throw. Since I can't get to it, I'm going to solder a stop on the control rod so the guide bracket on the fuse will keep its throw right. Should be flying next week and hopefully still be airworthy in October. I doubled the #1 rib on the Yak.
Rusty
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Offline Guy B Jr

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2013, 11:58:48 PM »
Rusty,

If you live in a section of SC that sometimes has good winds, check out the thread "Stunt Kite" http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=28137.0

A search for Stunt Kites will yield much more on the subject. Training with a stunt kite will relax you and get rid of the "pucker factor" since you just ding them into the ground, set them up again, and take off again. No harm, no foul.

Seriously, it teaches you to point the kite where you want it to go not worrying about up or down. Depending on the kite, winds needed are in excess of 5-8 mph. They are really fast when the winds are 10-15 mph. You need a 1/4 to 1/2 mile of unobstructed wind to really get in a smooth flight. A field with trees a few hundred feet away produces too much turbulence. Try to get a really open place. The best I have found is on the shore of a large lake with the wind blowing off the lake. Good luck.
Guy Blankinship

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2013, 02:40:34 AM »
That's a great idea. You know, the Wright brothers trained themselves to fly control line type kites on the NC beaches long before they attempted to fly the plane. By the time of their first powered test flight, they were intimately tuned in to how the lifting surfaces worked with the wind. That was a large part of their ability to control their machine when the time finally came to launch it. And of course their guidance system was much like the kites, twisting the wings, as opposed to using ailerons.

I've spent many breezy days watching them fly on our SC beaches. Not to mention the sport of kite surfing. Talk about a wild ride, sometimes they look like they get up to a hundred feet in the air. I only weigh 125 pounds, so I probably better pin my name and address to my shirt before attempting either form of wind play.  LL~ Unfortunately for me, my shoulders would both blow before I learned to control the kite. And I live in the central midlands, where trees are too plentiful for the wind to get a good run.

Never the less, you have a great point. Someone who can benefit from it might read your post and try it. On my other little forum where a lot of C/L beginners reside, coxengineforum.com, we have a few coastal dwellers who could give it a try.

Thanks, Guy,
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2013, 08:38:56 AM »
Rusty, what ever you do don't put a stop limit on the pushrod.   You hear that, don't put a stop limit on the pushrod.   Change the control horn on the elevator.   Moving the push rod further from the hinge point will slow down the control.
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2013, 08:57:12 AM »
Friend has a Jr Flite Streak with an LA10 which flies fine on shorter lines. (57ft 012 for the TD 09)

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2013, 01:10:44 PM »
Rusty, what ever you do don't put a stop limit on the pushrod.   You hear that, don't put a stop limit on the pushrod.
Oh no, I wish you hadn't said that. ???

Change the control horn on the elevator.   Moving the push rod further from the hinge point will slow down the control.
Reviewing my reasoning: After my mishap with the popped leadout, the bellcrank punched a small hole in the #1 rib, which it now gets stuck in when pulled to full Up. My reasoning was, since I can't get to the rib to patch the hole, I could just stop the pushrod from allowing it to move into the hole. My linkage is already in the most distant hole in the horn from the hinge, though I have a longer Sullivan horn for the Yak I could install. But he throws aren't excessive except for now on the side where the crank goes into the hole... and sticks. With a wrap of copper wire soldered to the rod to stop against the eyelet in the guide brace, which is fastened to the fuse, I would be preventing it from moving that extra 8th of an inch into the stuck zone.

Now the question: Why is that a bad idea? John, please don't mistake my question for obstinance, I just really don't know.
Thanks.
Rusty

Here are a couple of cell phone pics of the hole in the rib. I'll hold up the show until I hear back on this.

 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 02:53:37 PM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
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while you're doing it!

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Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2013, 02:58:13 PM »
Friend has a Jr Flite Streak with an LA10 which flies fine on shorter lines. (57ft 012 for the TD 09)
Jim, I have a Tee Dee .09 I've been dying to use. If I get a Junior anything, that's what I'll power it with. I do like the Idea of a .35(modern .25) sized Streak for my next plane though.
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2013, 05:02:08 PM »
Ah, now I know.  The old bell crank sticking excuse.   Yes I have had that problem too as well as pushrod dragging.   Do what you think will work and fly.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2013, 05:15:17 PM »
Ah, now I know.  The old bell crank sticking excuse.   Yes I have had that problem too as well as pushrod dragging.   Do what you think will work and fly.
Yeah, well, the old bellcrank sticking reason. Maybe it is an excuse. Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something that would make it fly badly. I thought cutting open a hatch in the center sheeting to patch the rib might be a bad idea. Either way, it will fly, but I want it to fly the same.
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2013, 07:35:55 PM »
So I thought about it some more. Still not cutting open the center sheeting, but here's a way to fix it without fooling with the control rod:

That's 1/8" birch ply. I didn't feel like gluing tonight, so tomorrow I'll add a little brace to make sure it stays in place. The other side protects the bellcrank from ever banging another hole in the rib.


DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2013, 07:49:41 AM »
Good fix.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2013, 09:34:32 PM »
Since my August 9th expedition when I popped a leadout, I've been out twice to practice with my flying buddy. I haven't flown too impressively because I'm still having trouble slowing the plane down. Last Thursday I was launching sloppy rich but it kept leaning out in the air. I'm blaming some of that on the APC props I've been using. I know when I fly the small planes, they have much more go than traditional props. I was using an APC 10x3 and it was almost there, but I busted it, and so put a 10 x 4 on it and that was a big mistake. A 3.9 second lap mistake. try doing squares at that speed. So anyway, I went out for four flights, just stooging it by myself this afternoon. I had a Top Flite Power Point 10.5 x 4 and added a muffler for the first time to hopefully help tame the engine a little.

Here's the flight report and video I posted on another forum:

____________________

When I got to the field today, I was surprised to see an Apache helicopter parked in the middle of the field with a service truck and repair detail. My field is at Fort Jackson, SC, so it wasn't a complete surprise. It had made an emergency landing with a hydraulic leak. I talked to a security officer and explained what I was doing, and he said it wouldn't be a problem as long as I flew about a hundred yards down the runway. So I didn't have the coolest aircraft at the field today. No one else was there, so airfield was mine. We don't have a decent circle, it's sloped, so I fly on the RC runway.

On my first flight the engine pooted the muffler tip off. It went from purring to screaming, and the plane sped up. One of the chopper techs saw me walking the circle and came to help me look for it. He found it way outside of the circle. I thought the dang thing was pressed on, but it's screwed on. Now it has some light plier marks, but I can polish them out.

My second and third flights were pretty good, but I didn't do an OH8. My horizontals were better, but the one in the video was botched. I tried it again but the lines got loose and I bailed. I was launching as rich as I could and still be able to get to the handle before it put out the fire. If I had a pit man, I could set it richer and have him keep it going by pinching the line while I walk out. If that doesn't work, I'll try a 9x4, but everything I know about props says that will only be faster. As it was, the engine was a little too lean in flight. I have the old 61' lines, but they aren't in top shape, so I hope I don't have to resort to those to help slow it. I feel like I could do better shapes if it was about 4.8 or 5 seconds, but i was much more comfortable today and the ground only snuck up on me once, but I managed to barely miss it.

This video was my fourth and last flight today. Some of the stunts had looked better earlier, some not so much. It's still flying at about 4.36 seconds, but that's better than Thursday's 3.9 or whatever it was. I would liked to have swapped props, but it was too hot and stooging is hard work for me, so I did four flights and then just watched the Apache crew work. They even borrowed a 7/8" socket and a 15" breaker bar from me. My socket worked on a war bird!

Rusty

Okay, the video is uploading and should be online at this address:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TSXY_PZHx4&feature=youtu.be
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Progress update in my Novice training
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2013, 08:12:41 AM »
Went bad and looked, I didn't see what size venture you are using.   On my Twin Ringmaster, the inboard LA .25 didn't want to run and the needle was almost falling out.    After landing, Jim Lee looked at it and asked why I was using a .40 size venture.    Anyway now I have the correct size venture on it and awaiting flights again.   Yes, it took off and sounded like a rat engine until the fuel was gone on that engine. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Progress update in my Novice training
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2013, 09:55:21 AM »
Went bad and looked, I didn't see what size venture you are using.... 
This engine has a Supertigre(so I'm told) 3-hole sprinkler type with the spraybar off to the side. It's hard to measure in place with my fairly large caliper, but it looks like about .175".  I'll take it off and get a better measurement. I wasn't sure if it was leaning out or just bogging from swinging too much lumber with that 10-1/2" prop. That's pretty big for this engine. If it hadn't been so hot I would have taken the time to try others.
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Progress update in my Novice training
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2013, 07:14:49 PM »
So after a week at the beach to relax, fish and clear my head, I went out and tried the 9x4 narrow GF series MA prop. Much better, though still a bit fast. I might get an APC 9x3 if they make one or cut a 10x3 down. I don't think anyone else makes a 3" pitch prop in the 9" or 10" length. But I was comfortable with running rich with the MA 9x4 today and I flew remarkably well. Here's the flight report:

Wayne and I met out at the Fort Jackson club field at 10:00 this morning. Any of you guys familiar with the MCLS (Metrolina Control Line Society) club will know Wayne Robinson, my Stunt mentor friend. He had his Cardinal and another one I never can remember the name of with a thunder Tiger .39 that looks just like my .25. He thought it was an ST before I recognized it. It was one of Watt Moore's old engines. Wayne is practicing the advanced pattern now, and getting pretty good at it except for one quirk today where it would to turn in on the last loop of the clover and the top of the hourglass. We had an 8 mph breeze with gusts. I'm learning that the wind can be my friend, but sometimes I still get a brain fart and enter stunts slightly out of place.

I concluded after last time, no 10" prop is going to get me slow enough, so I started out with a new MA GF series narrow 9x4 and launched rich. Not rich enough though, on the first flight I had to bail on several stunts because it was happening too fast, about 4.2 seconds. I did get all of the attempts, so I would have gotten pattern points, but I need to do better than just trying. After riching it up some more it went much better. I think I flew four flights. The second was successful and I completed all of the stunts except it still coughed lean a few times, and the OH8 was still only an attempt. Set even richer for the third flight, I did a decent job of every stunt. But on the forth loop of the OH8 I lost the handle and was connected only by my safety lanyard. I grabbed it back during the ensuing tightass loops and it cut off and I saved it, landing with a handfull of line in my left hand. No blood, and I did actually land it in a bumpy sort of way, but it didn't nose over. So Pattern points for that.

We broke for lunch and a "classroom session" and launched it again. One more tweak richer and it was at a comfortable mid 4 second pace. The takeoff reached level height a tad early, but I did roll out the required distance. The engine was breaking lean in the stunts and burbling slightly wet in the flats. I did every stunt fairly well with no slack, and placed them all in the right spots. The OH8 was pretty good except the first loop was a little tight, but it stayed up there and I flew through it with wide loops for the next three and exited wingover style in just the right place. About 5 laps later the engine cut as I was holding it at about 50-60 degrees and I coasted in for a respectable landing. Wayne ran over and gave me a hand shake. That was good.

I think I can start repeating this now. I might go back to 10% nitro to see if that slows it down some more. If it's still in the mid 4 second range, I also might find a muffler that has some back pressure. The one I have now is gutted with no baffles. All in all, this was what I would call a success. Not having such drastic engine trim problems made it a whole lot easier to get my head into flying. The 75 degree temps helped a bunch too.

I was excited in my last report because I didn't pancake it and I got all the attempts in. This feeling is a lot less hollow, I feel like success is here now. All I need to do is keep flying as frequently as possible.

I had forgotten about the Baby Streak in the car when Wayne said, lemme see you fly the 1/2A. I just fixed it up last night for this Saturday's fun fly in Huntersville, NC. So I pumped 2oz of 25% into the bladder and ripped off a nice flight. What a rush. Those little planes are just wild fun. Wayne resisted but finally accepted my offer to let him fly. He hasn't flown a 3 second plane in decades, so I put 3/4oz in it and he took off. Sumbitch flew better than me and ripped off a passable beginner pattern, though the fast squares were unidentifiable and the wind blew the OH off the top. He ran it out of fuel and landed, and judging by his staggering grin, I think he enjoyed it.

That concludes today's flight report. Big fun. My confidence got a big boost and my frustration abated considerably.

Rusty

« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 07:53:30 PM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: Finally some progress in my Novice training
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2013, 07:39:20 PM »
I'm already an Admiral, and I'm looking for a promotion.  What's higher than Admiral?

Floyd

Higher than admiral in this forum? That would be Robert...
Been following this thread and like it. Very entertaining.
Keep at it Rusty and you'll get it.
Aren't you guys who say where there's will, there's a way?

Marcus
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Action is his reward, look out
Here comes Marcus, man..."


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