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Author Topic: Profit  (Read 4573 times)

Offline john e. holliday

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Profit
« on: November 13, 2007, 12:57:15 PM »
I know I shouldn't bring this up, but,  I hate to think of the people that have been taken advantage of because they do not know what is what.  Check out item 300171415831 on the bay.  I just checked the mfg site and found it is still available for $20.00 less than starting bid.  Yes I know I don't have to bid on it and I didn't.  I just sent the person an E-Mail about it.  I have a limit when I bid, but, lately I have noticed another item showing up that the person must have a case of them.  The last one I bid on was what the first half dozen had been closing at.  Seems the seller has someone backing them up to make sure they get their price.  Enough said as I have some kits I may put on here after VSC nexct year.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Profit
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 01:10:54 PM »
Weeellllll,,,

The Shark is still a bargin at $109.99 vs a current list price of $159.95....

I see the Smoothie (like the J.Roberts handles I was tracking) has broken into "over list" territory.   There's nothing too unusual about this.  Somebody has pretty much the whole Sig catalog on the bay at inflated prices quite often.
---------------------------------------

Ebay had a feature on TV about their "star bayers".  Some women who lived near the Rodeo Drive fashion strip in Beverly Hills would buy high fashion clothes and purses, etc on sale using their credit cards, and put the stuff on the bay.  If it took off, big bucks,  If not, they just returned it for credit.  Free market in action.  Nobody seemed to mind.
Paul Smith

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Profit
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2007, 01:32:07 PM »
Well, I guess that's free enterprise for you.
Of course, note the number of bids!!!

The shipping seems a bit high, doesn't it? As I recall, $15 to $25 was more in line, depending on the destination.

One thing the seller should be aware of - he is advertising the plane as being covered with monocote.
Isn't that the Top-Flite brand name?   ??? ???I believe Brodak products are covered with something similar but not that actual product.

Oh well, if someone buys it and is happy, that's all that counts.

Bob Z.

Offline rustler

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Re: Profit
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2007, 02:08:15 PM »
I've noticed a couple of my engines on e-b recently sold for about £25/$50 more than I sell them for.  :o ??? Maybe my engines are just good value  8)
Ian Russell.
[I can remember the schedule o.k., the problem is remembering what was the last manoeuvre I just flew!].

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Profit
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 02:22:07 PM »
Beware shipping prices being jacked up!  I routinely mail, (yes, through the post office, the safest way,) electric guitars and basses for $30.00 or less, depending on the destination!  We're talking about many pounds here.  We're also talking first class or priority with at least a thousand bucks insurance for that price.  I also shipped an Ampeg guitar amp to California (from Ohio) last year for $40.00!  That puppy was HEAAAAVVVEEEYY!!!!! %^
I find so many eBay shipping prices set way too high and I refuse to bid on them when that happens. n1
Blessings,
Will
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Offline Paul Smith

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High shipping price is good business !!!
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 02:30:44 PM »
Ebay charges a rather high commission on the sale price, starting price, or reserve price, whichever is higher.

But NO commission on shipping. 

So a seller would be better off asking a $0.99 starting price and $40 for shipping, rather than starting the bidding at $30 with $10 shipping.  Just consider the total when you bid. 

I've bought things for 99 cents with $14 shipping.
Paul Smith

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Profit
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 02:35:20 PM »
Will - I've sold hundreds of items, mostly engines, on eBay. I do not advertise shipping cost but I do state that buyer pays shipping.  If I quote any shipping via private e-mail, it's usually priority mail and the quote is one I'm positive about. Most of the smaller engines can be shipped for the priority mail minimum - $4.15 as I recall.

There have been times when I had ten to fifteen engines advertised and I would offer an incentive - buy any four and shipping is free. Produces some interesting activity!!!!

Bob Z.

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Profit
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 03:50:38 PM »
When I see high shipping prices I think that maybe the item might be returnable for the purchase price but shipping is never refunded.  This way the seller has made his profit on the shipping rather than the sale.
Crist
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Offline peabody

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Re: Profit
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 04:04:06 PM »
Tome, ts reflects a HUGE FAILURE by a bunch of entities! The AMA, SIGs, Manufacturers and Clubs have all failed to let those interested in controline flying know that is still alive and even active!

Instead, poor slobs buy mementos on the bay.....

What we have here is a lack of communication.

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: Profit
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 04:49:31 PM »
Tome, ts reflects a HUGE FAILURE by a bunch of entities! The AMA, SIGs, Manufacturers and Clubs have all failed to let those interested in controline flying know that is still alive and even active!

Instead, poor slobs buy mementos on the bay.....

What we have here is a lack of communication.

Rich,

I think that may be a bit too critical.  No question we could all do a better job of advertising our activities but, we need to remember, this is a hobby for the vast majority of us.  Taking free time away from our modeling activities to do promotion is seldom a choice we want to take. 

Frankly, one of the things that makes me think that actively persuing a more aggressive course of action might be less than satisfying is what happens everytime we go fly in today's world.

A little comparison.  When I was a kid, my brother and I would jump on our bikes and pedal madly at the sound of a model engine from one of the parks/school grounds where we knew flyers sometimes showed up.  We weren't the only ones.  It was quite common to have people pull over in cars or bikes or from walking by and show  great interest in what was taking place.  The fact that we could actually fly in parks or school grounds in residential areas certainly had something to do with that.  The attractive nuisance thing, I suppose.

Nowadays, we fly in a couple of places that are open to spectators.  The Napa flying field is in a public park in a very up scale city (not in a residential part of it, however), and our "rented" site in the Mission College parking lot gets considerable drive by activity as well as people coming to the school for "other activities" such as band practice, baseball, etc. etc.

The plain truth is that - attractive nuisance or not -- 99 out of 100 (at least) people who come by not only don't stop, watch or ask questions, but don't even glance in the direction of the activity.  I've no clue exactly why our "unusual" and "not particularly quiet" activity doesn't act like a magnet, but it clearly doesn't.  I could make all the usual guesses about all the "options" for spare time that flood the marketplace in a veritable waterfall of pinpointed commerce  ($$$$$) but doing so would only be my guess which is no better than anybody elses.

Once again, it is worth recognizing the incredible efforts of Alameda, CA's  Bill Osborne, the late champion of CL training activity who for decades spent huge amounts of his life into exposing young people to control line activities.  He built literally hundreds of flying saucers, begged, borrowed or otherwise obtained cox engines for all of them and invited hundreds and hundreds of young people (and their parents) to the field named in his honor near the Oakland Int'l airport. Once again, Bill did this for decades and there was always club activity at the same field to help interested young people in continuing.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no currently activite CL modeler in the Bay Area whose interest came about from all the hard work (and personal $$$$ resources) Bill put into bringing them the opportunity to participate.

I know that, for us who've been addicted for a lifetime, such ennui on the part of young people seems hard to believe.  I'm just not convinced dedicated efforts to implore interest is likely to bear fruit.  I mean, you gotta remember that today we still have a large part of the people who originally became enamored of control line.  Sure, we've lost a lot of us, but we still have hundreds who've done this stuff since the '50s.  It seemed like a lot of people at the time, I suppose, but really, several hundreds or even a few thousand of the millions of Americans who've come and gone or are still with us in the last six decades is an incredibly small demographic.  Maybe we're just destined to find our future in the dribbles with which it has really been occurring since the post war/post Lingbergh aviation "boom".

Has your experience in the more populous Northeast been demonstrably better?

Ted

Offline peabody

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Re: Profit
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 06:07:34 PM »
Hi Ted....
No...there are very few newbies (the GSCB got five new members in 2007, three primarily because ARFs allowed them to realize a flight with their own stuff much sooner than kitted). Three from 2006 died or moved and aren't paying dues any more.

The GSCB maintains three "Intro Pilots" that allow interested to try without having to join the AMA.....as well as a fleet of butt-ugly trainers......

We try to promote model aviation locally....we have hand outs.... My gripe is with the organizations that we pay into that don't try......

You might remember that I have voiced similar opinions since I have been flying as an adult....my grousing in 1993 (?) resulted in the great color flyer that Steve Buso and Tom Morris created.

Because model aviation, and particularly controline modeling, are not promoted as alive and viable, people pay huge dollars for model kits at auction.....Our AMA regularly hosts a District meeting at the WRAM Show in Westchester....and controline manufacturers are NOT ALLOWED to exhibit there....even though radio controlled submarines are! Voicing objections to the powers that be brings no satisfaction. I am not aware of the policy that prevails at the left coast show, but I would wager dollars to donuts that there  little lobbying of the controline manufacturers to attend.




Offline Bob Disharoon

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Re: Profit
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 06:26:27 PM »
I live in Maryland. C/L is fairly non-existant. That is the way it is,and it will never come back, much to my sorry. Yesterday was Veteran's Day...I spent the entire time watching the Military channel. Those Vets are leaving us at an astounding rate, unfortunately. Wonderful things, we , as young folks, thought would never end...end. Get over it and keep on keepin' on instead of bemoaning the fact that it is over.When you are dead,is anyone going to resurrect you?...I think not.
CARPE DIEM.....

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Re: Profit
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 06:31:38 PM »
I can tell you why Ted. <SNIP>The plain truth is that - attractive nuisance or not -- 99 out of 100 (at least) people who come by not only don't stop, watch or ask questions, but don't even glance in the direction of the activity.  I've no clue exactly why our "unusual" and "not particularly quiet" activity doesn't act like a magnet, but it clearly doesn't.  I could make all the usual guesses about all the "options" for spare time that flood the marketplace in a veritable waterfall of pinpointed commerce  ($$$$$) but doing so would only be my guess which is no better than anybody else's.

When I started flying we hadn't been to the moon,the x-15 was flying and it was exciting! Now a space Launch doesn't draw as big a crowd. Its a ever day thing.Flight is no big deal to a kid. Repeated TV programs of fighters and airplanes. From what I understand now they don't offer shop like i had it in school. Wood shop,metal shop,auto shop,drafting, (all auto cad now) so on and so forth. Its just not as interesting as it was in the 50tys and 60tys. Plain truth.

When I was a kid, on TV Dec 7 every channel played Pearl Harbor. When was the last time you saw that?
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Offline Bob Disharoon

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Re: Profit
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 07:06:59 PM »
One more point and I'll shut up....The average kid today can use his/her hands basically in one of two manners...keyboard or joystick. Like Sparky mentioned.....Shop?..what Shop?...only Dads and Moms have the power to change their young. Unfortunately, most of us here have had our shot...too bad.

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: Profit
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2007, 09:52:43 PM »
I think you've all made some good points and I expect all of them play a role in the reasons why CL flying doesn't register on the video screens of most young people today.

I probably didn't express it as succinctly as I could have, my underlying thought was that what "new" interest we've gained over the last 40-45 years has probably been from pretty much the same cohort as the "new" interest we gain nowadays.  A tiny handful of people out of millions.  We think that we have a pretty healthy event as of 6:00 PM today because we've got a few thousand people around the globe that share our fascination with CL stunters of one description or another.

Guys, thats a few thousand (three zeros) out of billions (nine [I think] zeros) of "potential" stunt flyers.  That is quite literally one out of every million people on the globe that have an interest in stunt in a "healthy" era!

In other words, if you randomly selected humans on the planet today you'd have to go through a million of them to expect to find one stunt flyer.  Given that degree of rarity it is, frankly, a bit silly to think that we are going to see large numbers of "new" stunt flyers show up on a regular basis.  Yet, that same rarity in today's world has fostered what we perceive to be a relatively healthy situation for our event.  How could that be?

No, I'm not suggesting that when the  world's population doubles we'll have twice as many stunt flyers as we do today.  Most likely, stunt as we know it will decrease in relative popularity for the simple reason that every day there are new means developed and marketed to "fill the void" between Dancing with the Stars and American Idol.

When you think of it, there have been TV programs that have captivated millions of Americans to the point of impacting how they live their lives ... in much the same manner as stunt flying has impacted how we live ours.  Just at random: Cheers, Hill Street Blues, Dallas, MASH, etc. etc.  What is somewhat hopeful in that respect is that all of those -- during their era -- "must see and discuss" programs have turned to dust.  Replaced by CSI or Law'n Order or whatever the latest "must see and discuss" program is over the horizon have come and gone while CL Stunt has continued to attract the same (granted much smaller) but even more devoted following ... oftentimes for a lifetime.

I think we must simply come to grips with the likely reality that stunt will never be the next CSI; either in numbers of adherents in a specific moment in time or, more to our benefit, in the fickleness of its following.

If you'll pardon me for saying so, that is why building stunt airplanes is so much more valuable to our longevity than many give credence to.  Take away the creativity that attracts our tiny but devoted audience and replace it with just another cookie cutter version of "CSI today, Law and Order tomorrow" and the fabric that binds us together unravels.

Ted

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Profit
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2007, 10:37:34 PM »
Ted and others,,
points made, indicently I think there are 4 versions of CSI currently airing a weekly episode, CSI Miami, CSI. etc. Just for a point of reference, in Pullman School, any student who makes it from the 8th grade to the 9th grade HAS had woodshop. My girlfriends daughters have both created nice clocks, not grandfather clocks but not little puny things either. They cut fit sanded arranged for themechanisms, glass and parts and peices, as well as finish. They are both proud of what they built. I think that when shown, whether by hook crook or being forced to, todays young folks still can get the same thrill out of crafting somehting with their own hands. The problem I see is more the lack of involvment from parents, talk to a teacher they will tell you that the only parents involved with their kids are the parents of kids that really dont need it!Todays "family" structure dictates both adults, when present, in a family will work, well then where is the time for hands on and interaction. NO I disagree, there is a lot of noise about kids wanting instant gratification and not wanting to work for anything, unfortunatly, this attacks the symptom NOT the problem IMHO. If we were to show these young folks that there is satisfaction in doing things that take time perhaps they would maintain the levels of craftsmanship that we have come to appreciate. Granted it may be in something besides model airplanes, but for me, to see a young personapply themselves to SOME endevour and see it through , well that is great in and of itself. As for my household, My stepdaughter is learning to fly CL and is actually more interested in building than flying! Cheers to the younger generation!
boy this thread wandered,, hey Randy Powell, NOte I did not cause this thread to be hijacked buddy, Im innocent this time,,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Steve Hand

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Re: Profit
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2007, 11:00:42 PM »
Ted,

I really identify with what you said and especially the comparisons of "here today-gone tomorrow" examples. I do find it heartening and can totally identify with those of us who came back to this wonderful hobby after several (40 for me) decades. I may have not spent a lifetime in it, but it has spent a lifetime in me. I give the building of model airplanes in my youth, and the time spent with my father in doing so, as one of the most cultivating experiences that guided my whole life. Thanks for you insight.

Steve
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Offline Steve Hand

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Re: Profit
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2007, 11:06:53 PM »
MAKE THAT 4 PLEASE!!!!!!
Steve

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Profit
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 02:32:16 AM »
Doc,

I think the original subject was about profit on e-bay??!!??

I have a very close friend who plays piano in jazz clubs in the NY/NJ area, and has performed in Carnege Hall, Lincoln Center, with major Symponies, and has accompanied many of the major legitimate vocalists.

One of his albums (CD) features the late Milt Hinton who was one of the greats of jazz.

This CD was on ebay for $179.00 with a "cracked case"

You can go to my friend's web site and get the CD for $16.00!


Rich,

I don't see how you changed this thread to what the SIGs and AMA does but:

The above answers by Ted, Mark and Robert cover it well.

To me, one of the biggests shocks I had was in Muncie. Talking to people in the town, most had heard about the AMA land, but almost no one new what went on there!!!

I could find no one who new about the NATS that was going on, or that there had been a World Championship held at the AMA site!

In short, AMA doesn't even advertise anything that happens at the AMA site, much less controline, in the town that it takes place.

Individual clubs try in local areas, and this is certainly beyond the reach, in most cases for PAMPA to create interest. PAMPA can support activitie to get new people, through its local members.

All newcomers can, and  should be told about PAMPA and the Forums, since these are THE MAJOR sources on information and sources of CL items. What is left of the local hobby shops, are basically sources of ready made RC toys, because the quick bucks are there, and there are only a handful of shops that recognize CL.

Perhaps the greatest advantage to PAMPA is the Membership Directory.. This is a source on an instant friend, no matter where you live or travel. As one who used to travel for a living I can attest to that!

Ted's last point, is one, as most know, that I completely agree with, and so many will never get... "If you'll pardon me for saying so, that is why building stunt airplanes is so much more valuable to our longevity than many give credence to.  Take away the creativity that attracts our tiny but devoted audience and replace it with just another cookie cutter version of "CSI today, Law and Order tomorrow" and the fabric that binds us together unravels."
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 08:16:46 AM by Tom Niebuhr »
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Offline peabody

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Re: Profit
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 05:18:45 AM »
My point is that there are many, many more people dabbling in controline than most suspect. John Brodak has a mailing list of around 10,000. And those are people that DON'T buy Smoothies on the Bay.

When I was significantly less old, there was club that flew in Park Ridge, Ill. that regularly had over 100 entries in a contest. Today, no active PAMPA member recalls it.....those people have to be somewhere....

The Bay allows many to purchase memories!

We HAVE done a poor job of letting people know that controline is still alive..

Offline Bill Gruby

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Re: Profit
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2007, 05:26:36 AM »
 Rich;

   I think you missed something, a "SMOOTHIE ARF" is not a memory, a "Veco-Dumas Smoothie" is almost a memory. Now a real "VECO SMOOTHIE" is a memory. Just a nickles worth to set the record straight.

  "Billy G"  H^^
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Offline Chuck Feldman

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Re: Profit
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2007, 06:19:56 AM »
Marathon thread!!!!!! Started by non other that Peabody! LOL  Everyone remember this. The AMA in the days of old was run and controlled by the modellers of that day. C/L and FF.    R/C was just a dream.  But R/C did grow and now we are the remnants of the old days and are the minority. We could be happier if we accepted this. Sadly I think we should accept that as we age and pass on our event will fade and in time be almost nonexistant.  As to the AMA and what it does; To me it is a necessary but annoying thing. It takes 45 minutes to read the magazine and then it gets canned. Not so in the old days. The AMA rules the Nat's or should I say Ruin instead of rule. Small reference to the BOM. I believe PAMPA could run a much better (Nat's) away from the AMA site and its rules and limitations. AMA is slow unless it is looking for a new avenue to get more money. Cd thing for example. OK thats enough.
But let me ad this. What I have said has little to do with the thread as started by Peabody. But all his threads seem to turn into a Marathon. LOL
Chuck Feldman
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Profit
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2007, 08:08:40 AM »
Go to the top of this thread. It was started by Doc Holliday. Peabody changed the topic!

Rich,

As to people in Illinois "forgetting" about the past...

I am very embarrassed to say that my old NJ club (GSCB) "FORGOT" the 35th anniversary of Old Time Stunt in 2005!  OTS was started by GSCB, and is now flown all over the world! It seems that you participated in that sad "We Forgot" !

As to Wram show. They have banned CL for a long time. The late George Gaydos won the NATS twice with his incredable P-38 YIPPEE. This airplane had perhaps the highest static score ever awarded in CL scale.

He took it to the Wram Show to put it on display. When they saw it ,they were excited to see the beautiful P-38.  Then someone saw the leadouts and he was told that it was not allowed! Take it out of the building.

George also started Profile Scale, and was the first to build and fly a double size Ringmaster. And now most in that wonderful club don't even build airplanes!... Pretty sad, no matter what excuse you can come up with. We are losing talent, because it is no longer developed.

Lastly, if there are "10,000" names on someone's mailing list, the SIGS must have had some impact, so don't knock them!
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Profit
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2007, 08:31:13 AM »
Update,  the person answered my E-Mail and lowered the starting bid.  The shipping is still high.  Now as far as Rich changing the topic thanks.  The AMA needs someone that knows publicity and how it works.  As stated people in Muncie did not even know why we were in town spending money for motels, restaurants and other sundry things.  I told Melvin about a fellow I have purchased items from about him putting items on the bay.  He looked at the starting bids and stated the guy is breaking even unless someone starts bidding on them.  In fact he was the only source for Brodak 25's for awhile.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
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Offline Chuck Feldman

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Re: Profit
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2007, 09:29:11 AM »
Hey Doc""""""""

Sorry I said that Peabody stared the thread. He just warped my mind being the anti Christ that he is!!!!!!! LOL

Are you going to make it to Stuart this year or in 2008? It would be nice to see you again. How about the KOI????

Yours,

Chuck
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Profit
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2007, 10:52:40 AM »
Hey, Chuck!  We are really looking at trying to make the KOI again!  With Aaron in a new job, it will be easier to get off, but we wll have to travel *cheaper*! LOL!!!!!!!!!!! LL~ LL~ LL~
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Profit
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2007, 11:00:23 AM »
Hey Doc""""""""

Sorry I said that Peabody stared the thread. He just warped my mind being the anti Christ that he is!!!!!!! LOL

Are you going to make it to Stuart this year or in 2008? It would be nice to see you again. How about the KOI????

Yours,

Chuck

Hi Chuck and say hi to the rest of the guys.  Tried talking the wife into the doings on Thanksgiving weekend, but, to no avail.  With Mother being gone for a couple of years now I thought it would be great to make it something like every other year for the old tradition thing.  Mother passed a week before Thanksgiving and the daughter in Florida had to head back home before the feed.  Its been several years since we have had a Thanksgiving meal together.  Would love to get the grandson out to watch you guys fly.  The oldest grandaughter did go with me up to Southland RC while we were there.  Great guy and asked a lot of questions about control line.  Anyway have fun,  DOC Holliday
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10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Wayne Collier

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Re: Profit
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2007, 05:00:14 PM »
I gotta admit that I'm a little impressed with Peabody's linguistic ability.  He can say so much in so few words.  I took a few college level communications courses.  That is communication skills as opposed to communication technology.  In the world of the thirty second sound bite you have to make your point fast.  We gotta spread the word to all those CL wannabes who just don't know that the rest of us are here.  I glad I stumbled on to a few CL websites and found out just how strong the hobby still is.

                               The heart of CL is still beating!!!
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
<><

never confuse patience with slowness never confuse motion with progress

Offline Bob Disharoon

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Re: Profit
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2007, 06:30:36 PM »
Peabody: Is he real?.. certainly enigmatic and thought provoking...the world as I know needs more people like him/her...to provoke, prod, and confuse..hence the length of this thread....good stuff!!

Offline Chuck Feldman

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Re: Profit
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2007, 05:51:31 PM »
Hello Bill,  Yes come to the KOI. I'll look for you and Aaron there.   Doc you come to please.

Chuck
Chuck Feldman
AMA 15850

Offline peabody

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Re: Profit
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2007, 07:19:32 PM »
Rich Giacobone and I may drag John D. down to KOI....the problem is that us Yankees from the Garden State are tired of KOI and the KOI pond....Winfred has made about 20 videos about them....


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