Profile Smoothie NO MO

[Leester]

Took my profile Smoothie out for it's maiden flight today, or should I say it's only flight. I did about a dozen laps level feeling it out, great line tension the OS 35 FP was running great. I decided to do a loop, no problem. 1/4 lap later with the handle at neutral it starts to do another loop and starts coming in on me and nose down she goes boom meet Terra Firma. I had used Brodak retainers on the control horns, the two on the flap horn were intact. No where to be found was the elevator retainer. The elevator horn was still connected and in one piece, the flap to elevator push rod was still connected to the flap and intact. The only thing I can figure is the retainer broke but it had CA hinges so I thought it should go back to neutral right? And what made it come in on me? Theres no damage to the engine the wing and flaps are salvegable. Any guesses?

[Andrew Hathaway]

Are those retainers the ones like Perfect used to sell?  A piece of wire with a loop in one end then a pigtail in the other?  The hardware package in my Brodak Nobler has those, and I promise they'll never end up on anything that I build.  Using hardware like that is asking for trouble.  It's easier and safer to use soldered washers... Even wheel collars would be a safer bet. 

Sounds like your control system was not up to the task. 

[Leester]

You described the retainers correctly, This WAS the only plane I'd used them on but they will go in the garbage from now on.

[Tom Dugan]

Leester,

Sorry to hear about your mishap.  The life of a test pilot is a dangerous and uncertain one. 

Im going through all my kits now and throwing those pigtail keepers away.  Guess I'll have to learn how to solder.

Thomas

[Leester]

Thomas:

Iwas flying down at Riverside park so I was only 5 min. from my house, just glad I wasn't at Mt Joy. The ride home would have not been alot of fun.

[frank carlisle]

crashing sucks Leester. At least you didn't just fly it into the ground. I use those pigtail thingies all the time if you guys are throwing them away please send them to me,

[john e. holliday]

Same here, I use those things that come in the Brodak kits.  To make sure they don't come off I wrap the protion ahead of the horn with wire and J-B Weld.  So far no retainers coming loose.  DOC Holliday

[Leester]

Doc

Wish I'd have done that to this one. It wasn't the best job I've done but I liked it, and now I have to build something for the FP 35 it was runnin sooo sweet.

[frank carlisle]

A model plane is a serious loss. A profile Smoothie represents a lot of hours building and finishing. I'd guess 100 hours. That's 2 1/2 full time 40 hour work weeks. Plus two or three hundred bucks. Plus it will take that 2 1/2 40 hour weeks to build a new one.

[dennis lipsett]

If that was the dare profile Smoothie they are really nice flyers.
The Dare models seem to be well overlooked by everyone. Can't understand why. The wood is very good and the lazer cutting is really well done, full size plan , instructions are adaquate foe a semi experienced builder.
 I would have thought that the OS35FP would have been too heavy, but you seemd to have it well under control. I used a Fox 35 on the first one,sold that one unflown and it still exists. The 2nd one has an OS 25 FP and is a very good flyer. Oh did I mention that the plane builds light.
I did use better plywood on the profile sides.
Dennis

[Leester]

Dennis:

It was the Dare kit, and yes they are very well made. Joe at www.sshobbies.com has them for under 60.00. I did have to add 1oz to the tail to balance with the 35FP.I'll get another one someday for sure.

[Bill Little]

(snip)
Theres no damage to the engine the wing and flaps are salvegable. Any guesses?

Lee,

Get out those full size plans and build another fuselage!  The report on the first one sounds like it deserves to be rebuilt. 

I know several have said they have used the keepers with success, but not everyone does.  In fact I would tend to think that a well used Stunter would definitely need a more "solid means of attachment".  You just cannot see what is going on when the plane is flying, and a soldered washer, or ball link with a bolt and thread locker used, is just a bit safer.

Plus, with a ball link, the elevator throw can be adjusted just as easily so you can experiment with flap elevator rations very easily.  That can make a huge different on some planes.
All it takes is some abnormal flex n the pushrod for the rod end to come out of the keeper and "wham bam thank you 'mam".

I would also suggest that you replace the hinges with pin hinges while you are doing the repair.  Extra loads on the surfaces do not help the situation, and the strip hinges are not nearly as flexible/free miving as properly installed pin hinges, or even over/under monocoat hinges.

[Andrew Hathaway]

It definitely sounds repairable.  If the wing is intact by all means put it back together and try again. 

Soldering is easy, it just takes some practice and simple precautions have to be followed.  Tools make a difference too.  Hardware store solder doesn't work too well for our purposes.  I switched over to finer guage solder from Radio Shack recently and the result is that it melts more easily, quicker.  The hardware store garbage I had used in the past wouldn't melt till after the bellcrank or horn started to melt.

Start by cleaning the parts to be soldered.  I roughen the music wire with sandpaper, just whatever is handy.  Take the washer and lay it on the sandpaper on the bench or block and rub it back and forth with a fingertip till its good and scuffed up.  Clean the sanding dust off the parts with alcohol. Put the pushrod through the bellcrank or horn, and slide a piece of cardboard with a hole in the middle over the rod.  Slide the washer in place and add a bit of flux to the washer and rod.  When the soldering iron is hot enough I brush off the tip with a stainless steel scratch brush to get it clean, then if necessary melt a bit of solder to the tip.  Apply the iron to the washer and rod at the same time, touch the solder to the tip at the washer to melt a fillet of solder between the iron and the parts to be soldered.  The fillet of solder will allow the heat to transfer to the parts more effectively.  At this point there may be enough solder for it to flow around the washer, if not add solder at the side opposite of the iron till it flows to form an even fillet entirely around the washer.  When it has flowed out, remove the iron and let the parts air cool.  After they're cool, rip off the cardboard insulator, clean up the joint with alcohol and a toothbrush, and inspect the joint.  It should be smooth, shiny, with a complete fillet.  If its not right, grab the washer with a plier and give it a twist/pull and it should come off clean so you can try again.

Hopefully that makes sense, if not I'm sure someone will correct me.  Soldering is fun and the results will last the lifetime of the plane if its done properly. 

[Leester]

Bill & Andrew: I hadn't given much thought of repairing but since you mentioned it I peeled the $Kote off the wing. Not one broken rib,tips are fine a couple of tip braces are broken. The trailing edge and flaps no damage at all (2 inboard flap CA hinges broke clean at the flap) slight sheeting damage on the bottum front and leading edge at the same place. Probobly the landing gear did it. I've got to many projects going on at the moment but I'll do bits and pieces and dig out the plans. Some day when I'm wanting a change in what I'm doing I'll cut a new fusalage,elevator stab,rudder and fin and have at it.  Thanks guys

[dennis lipsett]

I use those keepers on the Brodak arfs,however I set the controls up so that the rod is next to the fuse and the bend is out toward the tip. On the three that I've done the pushrod cannot disengage at all since it can't move back far enough to get out of the horn. I use a wheel coller on the stab end in addition to the keeper.
Would I use them on a plane that I've really put a lot of work into, probably not but an ARF is just a disposable plane to me.
Dennis

[bruce malm]

I use the spring retainers and just slide a piece of heat shrink over them to make sur they don't come aprt. Then if you want to experiment with the throw rates, you just cut the heat shrink, slide a new piece on, move the rod and reshrink.

It works for me.

Wackydaddy1

[Leester]

Well I'm not going to put it off so I'm going to cut some parts for the rebuild today. First how do I get the old CA hinges out of the trailing edge and flaps with out destroying them? The elevator,stabilizer,fin and rudder are 3/16th's is there any reason I can't go to 1/4" instead? The original motor mounts were 6" long but there is room to go to 8 1/4" should I go with the longer ones? The 8 1/4 would take them 3/4" past the leading edge.  Thanks

[Andrew Hathaway]

Just cut the hinges flush with the wood and make new slots for new hinges in a different part of the stab/elev. 
1/4 would work, but would be heavier if the wood is of the same grade.  Longer motor mounts will add weight and won't give much benefit unless you're using a motor that tends to shake.