stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Mike Keville on November 14, 2012, 07:01:17 PM
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Back in 1989 I tried to do something nice that would attract true believers in Stunt-as-we-once-knew-it. It was (and still is) called the VSC. Next March will see the 25th (and perhaps final?) iteration of this event.
Through the years we've seen our hobby/sport degenerate into BOM, power-source 'wars' and 'emergency' rule changes. Like Ted, this baloney has pretty much killed my interest in the event(s). Although no longer a 'player' in the running of the VSC, I have definitely lost much of my former interest. Having been involved with model aviation, in one form or another, for sixty-five (yes, 65) years) I am pretty much burned-out by all the squabbling. Too old to return to chasing Free Flights, I am now seeking an alternate interest.
Never thought I'd say this, but those RC helo's and Park Flyers are starting to look mighty attractive.
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I've only been doing it for 8 yrs and all the crap in CL has put me off - sold all my stuff - now fly F3K gliders....... seems the CL community (at least the "old boys") have nothing better to do than @#$% and moan about things...
I'm out too.....
anybody want my database of 23,0000 cl plans?
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I've only been doing it for 8 yrs and all the crap in CL has put me off - sold all my stuff - now fly F3K gliders....... seems the CL community (at least the "old boys") have nothing better to do than @#$% and moan about things...
I'm out too.....
anybody want my database of 23,0000 cl plans?
UUUHHHH it isn't just the "Old Boys" doing the squabbling.
Progressive attitudes thinks the world constantly needs to change everything until it's sifted down to nothing.
Pretty disgusting!
Randy C.
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UUUHHHH it isn't just the "Old Boys" doing the squabbling.
Progressive attitudes thinks the world constantly needs to change everything until it's sifted down to nothing.
Pretty disgusting!
Randy C.
yeah and progression is BAD...... we need V8 fuel guzzling monster cars, smoking at work, cafes and with the kids , spraying the ground with DDT to kill grubs, heacy sprays on agriculture - just like the good old days!!!!
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Randy i agree with you on that.. I just got in a Park Zone Radian RTF that I am going to take out soon. I have always loved sailplanes and with a bad back and bad knees, I think I am going to enjoy sitting back in a reclining chair and catching some thermals and watch her sail. I probably have seen my last CL contest also. I will still cut a few kits for those who want them but my interests are going in some other directions.
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Mmmmmm.........this is all bad stuff! I think that it has more to do with the general stress of the chaotic world than actually with C/L stunt or any other form of model aviation. I was very lucky to attend the 2001 VSC and had an absolute ball. It had nothing to do with the competitions at all. It was just about being there and meeting folks that I had only ever seen in the magazines. As soon as any pastime/hobby thing stops being fun and enjoyment, it's time to quit, or just take a break. Moving to other flying things can be a welcome change, but as soon as there is competition involved, then it will most likely go the same way. Thank goodness there's no big money prizes for our competitions!!
With the serious problems globally, I believe that we are all strung out and take everything too seriously. I'm going through the same thing here in South Africa right now and I have come to realize that there is more to life than fighting about toy airplanes. I have resigned as chairman of the CL SIG here over things that were said about me and that is a sad state of affairs. I should have been able to shrug these things off and just laughed about them but I could not, so I decided that a good break is in order. I have an old Hammond organ that has been waiting for me to re-built it for around 35 years and now its time to do this. I'll stay involved on the forums and fly for fun on local fields with my electric stuff. I'll keep developing my gadgets like the timers and get back to finishing my updated CL Sim for judges training. Who knows, maybe I'll get the passion back to fly in stunt competitions in a while. I sure hope so! Take care guys........we all need each other!
Keith R
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I hope you change your mind Mike, I remember you as President & running Classic at Muncie. You made a difference in me.I just tore out one of the last pages of the latest MA magizine it has 3 guys together & the stry title is " Friends First ,,Then Competitors".
John Leidle
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I find it ironic that after being away from C/L for 45 years, and just now starting to learn the art, that I see this happening. I've spent the last 35 years flying sailplanes, and still enjoy that competition tremendously. What brought me back to C/L is the beauty of actually building again. My competition sailplanes all come out of hard tooling, c/f, kevlar, and f/g. Things of beauty, no way a hand built airframe can beat them in competition. Load up the radio gear, set the programing, trim fly a bit, and enjoy. But no real building... I admit to having a couple of consumables (ARFs) to get me down the learning curve a bit sooner, but for me there's no substitute for the satisfaction of cutting and sanding balsa. Last year I went to the VSC to watch the skill, enjoy the sound and smell, and even ran into a fellow that had tried to help me learn c/l in Kentucky back in the early sixties. What a thrill. I'm sorry that it may not continue until I can get to a skill level that I can compete. It's sad to think that this hobby may die a premature death from the inside, since it is already under pressure from many outside aspects. Maybe I got back too late. Or, maybe I'll skip work and go practice tomorrow!
(Mike, The Radian is a hoot and will actually thermal quite nicely. Be careful, you may get hooked. Thermals!)
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I've been to most of the major contests on the East Coast over the last 10 years. Every Brodak in that time period and most of the NATs. It's all been fun. I have seen folks burn out and stop. For some the traveling and difficulty of the hobby got too much. Hard to build and fly those planes, especially on the North side of Middle age. Bodies break down. At times there are issues outside the hobby that are problematic and effect our ability to compete, and even fly. In our club this has taken it's toll. And, certainly, some folks are personally not the best match. But, I must say, our club still manages to have fun. Sunday, a beautiful Indian summer day, many of us were out. Swapping stories. Enjoying the bright sun before the set in of winter. Flying if we could. Sitting around otherwise, friends with friends.
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I have attended a number of VSC contests, and for me the thrill is meeting the people and seeing the old designs "done right". The power source really doesn't matter to me. It is the old aerodynamics and look that are the key! Me, I am the wierdo who flies OT 1/2A designs with '50 diesels, so what does my opinion count. S?P
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Icertainly hope that " rumors of our event's demise" are premature. Yes the world is changing, always has and always will. I personally think that C/L will survive, and with modern materials, equipment, power systems might even see somewhat of a surge among the older than average, had time to learn appreciation for quality work, airplane fan.
i certainly don't see it getting any worse for Sport Fliers than it was 20-30 years ago, hobby shops drying up, CL stuff getting hard to find, left-over Sterling and Top Flite Die-crunched kits on the shelf when you did find a shop. No internet to find what you need in minutes, no laser cutting or carbon fibre stuff, the list goes on.
With the FAA starting to take a hard look at R/C, the basic simplicity of CL, and it's much smaller footprint neeeded for flying sites may work in our benefit.
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I for one think change is good most of us have gone from some sort of hobby to another, slot cars,- to real cars,model airplane to full size and back to models , R/C - to C/L , Boats , etc some times we just need a change. Even if it means a deforce. mw~ HB~> n~
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Hello All,
I feel sad that some people get screwed up over such things as authenticity in OTS and BOM . Just STOP and think why you are in the C/L business. Is it to compete and win or just to enjoy yourself? I have not competed in ANY competition for nigh on 50 years and I do enjoy myself flying different types of C/L disciplines. I enjoy myself simply because I do not have the aggro that many people seem to find in say OTS.
I love to build old C/L models with spark ignition engines and as many of the old accessories that I can find. I don't worry about people building the same plane with electric power and carbon fiber. If they want to do that, then fine by me. Now if you want to COMPETE with those two extremes, obviously there is a problem! The latest hi tech plane is going to win 9 times out of 10! So mixing these two extremes isn't going to work very well in competition. That conclusion isn't rocket science. Something needs to be done to level the playing field.
The never ending rants that go on in the forums isn't going to help anybody. They just promote division and anger and you finish up with people feeling pissed off and they go and do something else instead. A loss to the hobby and totally unnecessary.
The solution is straightforward. Let people compete in OTS with whatever takes their fancy. Just have a couple of sub classes, one for authentic planes and one for old designs and with high tech improvements. You get two winners, one for each sub class, then everyone is happy. Nit picking about glue is just that ... nit picking and adds nothing to the argument.
We are now very few in number and we can all ill afford this continual arguing. We are in this hobby, to either enjoy ourselves or to win competitions. There is nothing wrong with either motives. We CAN coexist peaceably and if we do, then the hobby will carry on for longer than it otherwise would. Surely this is what we would all like to see? If so, then calm down and see how we can be more accepting of each other!
I am off to enjoy myself in the workshop. I hope everyone else can stop arguing and do what makes them happy.
Regards,
Andrew.
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Mmmmmm.........this is all bad stuff! I think that it has more to do with the general stress of the chaotic world than actually with C/L stunt or any other form of model aviation. I was very lucky to attend the 2001 VSC and had an absolute ball. It had nothing to do with the competitions at all. It was just about being there and meeting folks that I had only ever seen in the magazines. As soon as any pastime/hobby thing stops being fun and enjoyment, it's time to quit, or just take a break. Moving to other flying things can be a welcome change, but as soon as there is competition involved, then it will most likely go the same way. Thank goodness there's no big money prizes for our competitions!!
With the serious problems globally, I believe that we are all strung out and take everything too seriously. I'm going through the same thing here in South Africa right now and I have come to realize that there is more to life than fighting about toy airplanes. I have resigned as chairman of the CL SIG here over things that were said about me and that is a sad state of affairs. I should have been able to shrug these things off and just laughed about them but I could not, so I decided that a good break is in order. I have an old Hammond organ that has been waiting for me to re-built it for around 35 years and now its time to do this. I'll stay involved on the forums and fly for fun on local fields with my electric stuff. I'll keep developing my gadgets like the timers and get back to finishing my updated CL Sim for judges training. Who knows, maybe I'll get the passion back to fly in stunt competitions in a while. I sure hope so! Take care guys........we all need each other!
Keith R
I think your right its more about the state of things than anything else. I feel like giving up sometimes. It's the Walmart mentality that everyone has. Life is not BurgerKing you can't always have it your way. 32 States have petitioned to succeed from the union because you can't spend more than you take in. ( at least not for long) People are stressed out over petty crap.
I know what I would like to see but if I don't that doesn't mean I am taking the ball and going to my room. What it should mean is start another game. I am sure there are plenty of guys whould like to play. That is the same reason the forum is in existence. I didn't like the game so I made my own. If it stresses someone out the power button works on the computer and TV. Plenty of sandpaper in the shop (I hope everyone gets the drift).
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, If someone doesn't like that opinion that's OK its not yours.
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I like Mike have over 65 years in model aviation. Started in FF models in the 1940's ,then CL in the 1950's. I flew RC also in the 50's. A friend and I almost became world class FF flyers just missing the world team several times. I quite FF in 1972 with my move to Florida and ran a series of CL contest in Dunedin Fl in the 1970's These contest brought out some guys who wanted to get better at CL and so I was again very involved with CL until my moving to NC in 2002. If you have read this far you would think I had a none stop interest in CL modeling. Not true. There were years when I would walk by the models and not even see them. I will admit CL contest flying has little attraction for many years now. Just going to the field with a CL model is a great way to have fun. I did notice about ten years ago that the one thing that was taking the joy out of CL flying was the internet. I found my self being effected by what was said on forums like this one. People saying things to each other that they would never say face to face. I have found that the people at contests are very nice but on here they can be very nasty. I don't associate with nasty people so why do it here. Lets face it the internet is very addictive. Break the habit and do the things that make you feel good. People divorce and move on so you can do it with model aviation also. I was going to make a comment in the thread about electric OTS but I new it would get me upset so I did not do it.
Mike don't look at this site for a month and see if you don't feel better. Fly CL if you want or do what ever makes your day. There is a lot more to life than hobbies.
Ed
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"But, I must say, our club still manages to have fun. Sunday, a beautiful Indian summer day, many of us were out. Swapping stories. Enjoying the bright sun before the set in of winter. Flying if we could. Sitting around otherwise, friends with friends."
Dennis you just described our club with that statement. Everybody in the club either has a bad back or bad knees and sometimes it is hard to find someone who can kneel down and launch you. Sometimes the models just sit on the ground and we swap stories and they never get in the air. And you know what, we still have fun.
I enjoy building so much that I will continue to build a plane or two every once in a while just for the pure enjoyment of building it but my kit run days are over. Living on a fixed income I do not have the money to travel and even if I did, with the back problems I now have, I could not drive the distances it requires.
And Tom, I am looking forward to getting that Radian in the air as soon as I can. It will be a nice change of pace.
Mike
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Mikey K,
The Park Zone 45 inch T-28 is the best foamie R/C model ever. Dad flies his every day, he's on his third one, I think. That Radian is really nice too, it's like free flight that you can steer if you think of it that way. (Plus I've seen guys carve the foamies into other models, a T-28 into a Shiden-Kai, Cavalier Mustangs out of P-51's, etc. Check out 2 mm Depron foam, guys sheet them with it to make really convincing ships that aren't on the shelves.)
I just bought a Classic Pattern ship from Dankar, a Phoenix 8 with a YS 60 and pipe. Should be fun, they go about 100 mph and make 1000 foot loops.
I am always fiddling with something and haven't really given up on any of them forever. I have two fuselages and tails for my next 1/2A Multi Scale ships. Two Corsairs for Carrier on another bench, two Scale ships, two Stunters in a loft. An indoor Scale rubber ship, and a bunch of R/C stuff 'cause Dad and Michael fly those.
Have fun, doing something. You're always my friend!
Chris...
Recognize the two guys down in front?
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Thank you for the tips Chris and I am happy to have you as a friend....
Mike
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Back in 1989 I tried to do something nice that would attract true believers in Stunt-as-we-once-knew-it. It was (and still is) called the VSC. Next March will see the 25th (and perhaps final?) iteration of this event.
Through the years we've seen our hobby/sport degenerate into BOM, power-source 'wars' and 'emergency' rule changes. Like Ted, this baloney has pretty much killed my interest in the event(s). Although no longer a 'player' in the running of the VSC, I have definitely lost much of my former interest. Having been involved with model aviation, in one form or another, for sixty-five (yes, 65) years) I am pretty much burned-out by all the squabbling. Too old to return to chasing Free Flights, I am now seeking an alternate interest.
Never thought I'd say this, but those RC helo's and Park Flyers are starting to look mighty attractive.
I try to stay fairly diverse also.
Even building plastic kits in the winter time, its fun airbrushing.
But in all seriousness, we have to drive further and further to even reach a decent U/C flying field anymore.
We can all argue and say, well if you really love it, you'd just cruise up to this field or that field.
And yeah, the guys will always welcome another U/C flier.
But even if you have a car thats decent on gas, or a van that'll carry it all.
Gets old fast when distance becomes a factor when you might wanna fly a few times a week.
I agree about the Parkzone T-28
My boy has a blast with that thing.
He((, I've been flyin a mini R/C biplane called the Beast from Horizon hobbies thats alotta fun in a small box!
Electric R/C allows you to fly in MANY spots you just couldnt with gas birds, or needing a sanctioned AMA field with memberships.
My local sanctioned R/C field is 28 miles from my house one way.
So theres my 2 tears worth
Hehehehe
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Thank you for the tips Chris and I am happy to have you as a friend....
Mike
I meant Mike Keville but of course include you too, Mike!
Chris...
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Mike K. I remember my first VSC. Did not get too much practice. I think I got one flight on my PowWow. Aunt Betty had us scheduled to do things every day there was not a competition day. If I remember it was done in three days. One for Old Time and two for Classic. I got to meet a lot of people that never get to my part of the country and got to see a few of my heroes that did not compete on the national level any more.
Work kept me from being a National Rank pilot in CL. But locally I held my own in some events. When work got in the way of competition I got into RC. Got good enough to become an instructor with the club. But, I really missed my time with CL. Started flying stunt as that was the easiest to fly when by yourself using a stooge. Now, old age and finances have gotten to me. I hope to make VSC under different circumstances this next year. Can't beleive I used to drive to Tuscon without using a motel for overnight rest. Now even the two day drive is not the fun it used to be. Last year was the worst with the high winds, sleet in the Texas Canyon area and dust storms to Las Crusis(spelling). They were shutting down I-10 as we got to the exit.
But, once in a while we have to take time off from some things and try something different. I guess being a spectator of stock car racing probably doesn't count. But, meeting the local drivers and the out of town ones on special nights is fun. Also control line flying/competition has taken me all over this great land and have met a lot of modellers that I hope I can call friends.
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Try some fun flys - we have several in the Northwest and they are fun get-to-gethers. No contest, just show up and fly whatever you bring, everything from serious pattern planes to beat up carrier stuff. If you take the competition out of an event it is much lower key - three guys ready to fly and all more than willing to launch for the other and fly later. If you get too serious it isn't a hobby anymore. Personally (I'm 66) my goal is to win in Intermediate PA once this year and then move up to Advanced where I'll never place in the top 3. No pressure equals more fun for me.
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Uncle Mikey,
I understand your feelings. It is getting out of hand and there seems to be no way to stop it. You would think that some of us would know better than to stir the pot so hard. On the other hand I do not let them bother me that much anymore. It is kind of like the federal election results. I was upset about it for a day or two then I just said, "there is no way I can change this so get over it and move on". Now that is not bothering me anymore. I will still vote, always have. It is funny that I have never voted for a President that won. LOL I have a perfect record! Now back to model airplanes. I cannot change the way others feel nor what they want to change. I fly a very good Jamison and I will always enjoy that. OTS is just more relaxing to me and people who want to change it (and already have) I will not allow them to make it less enjoyable for me. Some times I wonder why I continue to read the proposals and the argumentative things that go on. Perhaps that is what you and I should quit.
CHuck Feldman
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R/C assist Old Timer is my change of pace. Of course, with old ignition engines. I even throw in my old FF Dakota Bipe some times.
After flying R/C pattern for 25 years, I was not going to get in to controline competition at all. But, since I live in a town with out other modelers, I started going to contests just to be around people with like interest. One thing led to another and I found that control line people for the most part are really great people. Even with all of the bickering, I find a common bond with most. I still love to build planes from scratch either from plans or my own designs. And I love old engines. So in a way, I guess I just do my own thing and enjoy what I do. Winning has never been the driving desire of my hobby, and when per chance I do win it is just icing on the cake. But loosing never takes away from the fun.
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I came back to stunt in the late '80's due to the wonderful work of Mike Keville with Stunt News. It was only a few pages, nothing fancy, but written (mostly by Mike) with wit, passion and commitment. Mike's work brought stunt back from the edge of obscurity, and showed what could be done with a little effort. Thank you, Mike, for all you've given to the hobby.
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Never thought I'd say this, but those RC helo's and Park Flyers are starting to look mighty attractive.
I've been thinking of going that way as well..... y1 all because the BOM & E vs IC.. BS.
(http://www.parkzone.com/ProdInfo/PKZ/450/PKZ5080-450.jpg)
Or
(http://beyond-heli.com/images/PAAAAAKMBIPFDICH.jpg)
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I agree with a whole heart Bill. Mike's writings in the trailing edge did much to inspire me. Thanks to Mike for starting the VSC where so many of us could gather together in one place to relive the glory days of stunt. My hat is off to you Mike, and I hope you find many more happy hours in what ever modeling direction you take. You deserve it.
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I agree with a whole heart Bill. Mike's writings in the trailing edge did much to inspire me. Thanks to Mike for starting the VSC where so many of us could gather together in one place to relive the glory days of stunt. My hat is off to you Mike, and I hope you find many more happy hours in what ever modeling direction you take. You deserve it.
Mike has done far more than anyone else to get stunt out of the bad times in the early-mid 80s and the Stunt news "alligator sticker" era (and the subsequent feud) than anyone else. There wouldn't be a PAMPA in any recognizable form without him, that's for certain. Inventing VSC was just a side project, also wildly successful.
I understand the tiresome nature of all this. People like Mike (and many of the so-called "bitter old men" probably including me, although no one can compare with Mikes contributions) are torn between having to continually try oppose the various capricious changes, or simply roll over and let something that has been wildly successful for many decades, and it still in far better shape than most other events be picked to pieces and dismantled by various "improvements" intended to bring in new people my watering it all down. And all those "bitter old men" who have kept it going for decades and could presumably be counted on for more decades be damned.
So the choices are argue, or give up. I don't begrudge anyone either way, this is supposed to be for enjoyment, but it sure seems a damn shame that the event no longer wants people like Mike (or Ted or the others who have also had just about enough) or cares what he thinks.
Brett
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Mike has done far more than anyone else to get stunt out of the bad times in the early-mid 80s and the Stunt news "alligator sticker" era (and the subsequent feud) than anyone else. There wouldn't be a PAMPA in any recognizable form without him, that's for certain. Inventing VSC was just a side project, also wildly successful.
I understand the tiresome nature of all this. People like Mike (and many of the so-called "bitter old men" probably including me, although no one can compare with Mikes contributions) are torn between having to continually try oppose the various capricious changes, or simply roll over and let something that has been wildly successful for many decades, and it still in far better shape than most other events be picked to pieces and dismantled by various "improvements" intended to bring in new people my watering it all down. And all those "bitter old men" who have kept it going for decades and could presumably be counted on for more decades be damned.
So the choices are argue, or give up. I don't begrudge anyone either way, this is supposed to be for enjoyment, but it sure seems a damn shame that the event no longer wants people like Mike (or Ted or the others who have also had just about enough) or cares what he thinks.
Brett
"No wonder my love for this hobby is becoming a memory."
My own statement from the No Electrics in OT thread. I completely identify with Mike though through a different vein. Having been very successful as a FFer up to 2000 when I was Asst Nats CD and 2001 when I was the CD. During that time I discovered VAC and the Classics which rekindled my old CL interest. I was moving up in Wakefield and the BOM was dropped. Change on change and my heart was gone out of it, Classic Stunt got me into AMA Stunt and I was moving along well, when all the BOM churn started. Its been rehashed over and over with all the same rhetoric trying to justify the alteration for a more inclusive event. Same reasoning in FF. The last 12 years has worn me down. I get spurts or
of enthusiasm followed by "what the heck for". It's really disheartening to watch and read.
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I'm not sure I understand Uncle Mikey's position.
I've been flying power models since 1944. That's....let's see...well, you do the math. I'm not going to let a few whiners knock me out of the hobby. Like Jim, and some others, the secret is to step back and build and fly for personal satisfaction. So I also enjoy free flight, R/C gliders and an occasional hand-launch glider!
I no longer take competition seriously. I fly in stunt contests mainly to keep in touch with my friends. What some people do or say in order to advance their personal agenda is of no interest to me.
Floyd
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Congratulations Mike! I came to that conclusion many years ago. Had enough of the nonsense. Whenever I get invited to that party, I just don’t show up! Brett’s comment about ‘capricious change’ is just silly. All change is evolutionary and necessary for growth and prosperity. Just because something works for us at a time and place when it represents growth and prosperity doesn’t mean that it does now nor will it in the future.
OK, enough philosophy! The bottom line for me is that I’m designing, building, flying and enjoying it more these days than ever. Like Floyd, competition is just not that serious anymore. Last month at Golden State I got a chance to talk to know a guy from Florida a little better and him me. We both got some surprises! That was good.
Joe Yau, WHY WAIT! Here a photo of media center computer I built back in 2005. Hooked it up the flat screen. RealFlight simulator lets me fly hundreds of RC aircraft right in my living room!
Chris McMillin., Does the guy and car in this photo look familiar. Thanks for the introduction. He had a profound effect on my ability to fly as did he yours!
When the fun stops, I’ll stop………..just no where near that yet
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It is always sad to see the people that I care about walk away from the very thing that made us friends. The internet is a great place but it is a terrible place too, if you let all the BS get to you. I agree that the constant bickering gets tiersome but I also understand the need to defend what matters to us. Sometimes it is hard to remember that this is just a hobby, even if some of us have spent many years and countless money doing it, it is still a hobby. I fly control line for a couple reasons, I am competitive for one but the best part of flying stunt is the people. I look forward to every contest that am able to attend and it is not because I am obsessed with winning. It is because that is the place that I get to see my best friends. Places like the Nats and VSC (not that I have ever been lucky enough to attend the latter) are even more special because they are once a year and they draw friends from far away that I do not see at my local meets. I hope everyone will remember "why" we do this and not focus so much on the controversy.
Mike, You are a dear friend and I hate to see you walk away angry. I hope that you will keep in touch, I always enjoy hearing from you.
Derek
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Sometimes, a change of pace clears out the cobwebs and brings the fun back into modeling!
This is a 1940 Korda, at 48" wingspan. Powered with a little electric motor. In order to keep from losing it, I have R/C throttle and rudder control.
Floyd
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Congratulations Mike! I came to that conclusion many years ago. Had enough of the nonsense. Whenever I get invited to that party, I just don’t show up! Brett’s comment about ‘capricious change’ is just silly. All change is evolutionary and necessary for growth and prosperity. Just because something works for us at a time and place when it represents growth and prosperity doesn’t mean that it does now nor will it in the future.
OK, enough philosophy! The bottom line for me is that I’m designing, building, flying and enjoying it more these days than ever. Like Floyd, competition is just not that serious anymore. Last month at Golden State I got a chance to talk to know a guy from Florida a little better and him me. We both got some surprises! That was good.
Joe Yau, WHY WAIT! Here a photo of media center computer I built back in 2005. Hooked it up the flat screen. RealFlight simulator lets me fly hundreds of RC aircraft right in my living room!
Chris McMillin., Does the guy and car in this photo look familiar. Thanks for the introduction. He had a profound effect on my ability to fly as did he yours!
When the fun stops, I’ll stop………..just no where near that yet
Yeah,
Doctor Ric has certainly made my life return to normal. When he can fix you, me and is trying to fix Laura and keeping us all from surgery you start reminding yourself that there is a lot of life to live.
Thanks for the picture! And the sentiment.
Chris...
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Joe Yau, WHY WAIT! Here a photo of media center computer I built back in 2005. Hooked it up the flat screen. RealFlight simulator lets me fly hundreds of RC aircraft right in my living room!
I keeping with the Spirit of this post, Phil and I have to argue over the Realflight vs Aerofly Pro,(my thing) RC simulator issue. LL~
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I hear ya Mr Keville, I'm about burnt out too....not so much about the rules as all the bickering. Besides that, I'm old and broke down healthwise, and nobody around here flies C/L anymore. I've go a couple planes I've never flown, and I'll probly fly them one day, but as far as my accumulation of stuff......I'm gonna put it all up for sale. I might make enough to do somethin else that's not so obsolete...like fishing and stuff. I have a good boat I haven't had in the water for some time, and a 12 year old daughter that's gonna be gone before long. Heck, if i want to fly something i've got a simulator....I can fly that any time or weather. H^^
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Y'know, I don't see the bickering at contests, though -- just on line.
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Y'know, I don't see the bickering at contests, though -- just on line.
Tim, I'm too old and broke to travel, so I don't make the contests. But i'll take yer word for it. H^^
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Hey, I was just joking about the R/C stuff (see Post #1). Ain't gonna' happen.
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Part of it is the Internet. You read something and get your blood up, when if you had been conversing with the person face to face, it wouldn't have bothered you. I'm in the condition that I probably won't ever fly a control line airplane again, and my last constructed model was a sport FF. I'm thinking vary seriously about RC so I can sit in a chair and fly. I don't want to ever quit model aviation. The VSC is the high point of my year, and I'll be there so long as I can make it. As said, it is the people and the the airplanes.
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Part of it is the Internet. You read something and get your blood up, when if you had been conversing with the person face to face, it wouldn't have bothered you. I'm in the condition that I probably won't ever fly a control line airplane again, and my last constructed model was a sport FF. I'm thinking vary seriously about RC so I can sit in a chair and fly. I don't want to ever quit model aviation. The VSC is the high point of my year, and I'll be there so long as I can make it. As said, it is the people and the the airplanes.
I think you're right Jim. I know I'm on overload. I am a competitor though the last few years have all been false starts for me. I'll never give up modelling, I can't remember not building model airplanes, can't imagine not always doing that. I need to fine a way back to where its fun, the politics and bickering need to be put away from my mind. Time for some wrokshop hibernation I think.
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I am doing what I use to do before I returned to control line. I designed, and now scratch building an R/C electric motor glider. I also have an R/C 3-D high performance plane ready for its first test flight. I don't know if I will ever fly in a control line contest again, but I will continue to build and fly control line. This time for my own pleasure not to impress judges. Anyway Mike my friend you already know how I feel, as we said back in the sixties "Keep the faith baby". 8)
Andy
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Mikey K,
The Park Zone 45 inch T-28 is the best foamie R/C model ever. Dad flies his every day, he's on his third one, I think. That Radian is really nice too, it's like free flight that you can steer if you think of it that way. (Plus I've seen guys carve the foamies into other models, a T-28 into a Shiden-Kai, Cavalier Mustangs out of P-51's, etc. Check out 2 mm Depron foam, guys sheet them with it to make really convincing ships that aren't on the shelves.)
I just bought a Classic Pattern ship from Dankar, a Phoenix 8 with a YS 60 and pipe. Should be fun, they go about 100 mph and make 1000 foot loops.
I am always fiddling with something and haven't really given up on any of them forever. I have two fuselages and tails for my next 1/2A Multi Scale ships. Two Corsairs for Carrier on another bench, two Scale ships, two Stunters in a loft. An indoor Scale rubber ship, and a bunch of R/C stuff 'cause Dad and Michael fly those.
Have fun, doing something. You're always my friend!
Chris...
Recognize the two guys down in front?
Hey Chris...
Do they allow Electrics in classic pattern?
The old pattern planes have always had a special place for me. Flew a Curare With a Rossi for quite a while.
Randy Cuberly
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The old days in pattern were great. I flew one of Ted White's El Gringo's, A Dirty Birdy, and my last one which I still fly once in a while, the MK Joker with a short stroke YS. I think that is why I love Old Time Stunt so much. I am afraid controline will go the same way that R/C did with arfs and look alike planes that cost way more money than most can afford. Guess I am one of those old fogey's just stuck in the past. But it makes me happy.
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The old days in pattern were great. I flew one of Ted White's El Gringo's, A Dirty Birdy, and my last one which I still fly once in a while, the MK Joker with a short stroke YS. I think that is why I love Old Time Stunt so much. I am afraid controline will go the same way that R/C did with arfs and look alike planes that cost way more money than most can afford. Guess I am one of those old fogey's just stuck in the past. But it makes me happy.
Me too
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Hey Chris...
Do they allow Electrics in classic pattern?
The old pattern planes have always had a special place for me. Flew a Curare With a Rossi for quite a while.
Randy Cuberly
Randy,I think they do allow electric in Classic Pattern.
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Maybe its just me, but I have seen a Kaos with an electric motor and it just does not look right. I might have to build one with an Enya 60 III, a Super Tigre 60, or an old Webra Black Head. That would be fun. Oops! Kind of getting off the track here. Sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against electric, and have flown a few of others R/C electrics. I just can't quite get around flying them in Old Time. It's kind of like putting a 327 Chevy motor in a model A. It is just not a model A anymore. I still like De Hill's scoring as it encourages running old iron.
After all has been said and done on this thread, I doubt if anything will actually change. And maybe thats a good thing.
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Maybe its just me, but I have seen a Kaos with an electric motor and it just does not look right. I might have to build one with an Enya 60 III, a Super Tigre 60, or an old Webra Black Head. That would be fun. Oops! Kind of getting off the track here. Sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against electric, and have flown a few of others R/C electrics. I just can't quite get around flying them in Old Time. It's kind of like putting a 327 Chevy motor in a model A. It is just not a model A anymore. I still like De Hill's scoring as it encourages running old iron.
After all has been said and done on this thread, I doubt if anything will actually change. And maybe thats a good thing.
I hear ya Jim, that's my sentiments exactly and I do fly Park Flyers in my back yard. Its akin to Schnerle ported engines on OT R/C models. The R/C is bad enough but it absolutely no way shape or form did those models come near replicating the original operation of the models from the 30s and early 40s. I never flew R/C OT because of it though at one time I was tempted. OT Free Flight and it's follow on mutations were all originally intended to replicate the days inwhich the models were state of the art, Browns, O&Rs, Dennymites, Ardens, Rockets and a whole bunch of other ignition engines were the state of the art. Early on in FF we did allow glow engines but after a number of years brought the old stuff out of the woodwork, the rules were changes to only allow original, approved replica or conversions, and era diesels. OT R/C, the "progressives" of the events took it all into another realm so far removed they should have become AMA events because there was no resemblance to the contests of the 30s and 40s. I would have no issue with electric OT Stunt flown as a seperate event, that way I can go watch the REAL Old Timers in the other circle and fly there. By the way, the reasoning for the R/C OLD TIMERS in SAM in the first place was what else, inclusiveness with a stated motive of old men that couldn't chase anymore. Legit in word but not in deed, but the whole thing became something completely unique from its roots. I see OT Stunt going that way, but there is no BOM there so the door was left open form the very start. It just amazes me that these events having been created to "bring back the good old days" can evolve to such rediculous forms, its plainly obvious that the flyers have missed the intent altogether. So what's the point, Electric Old Timers are bastards just like their Schnerle ported R/C FF bretheren, not my idea of OT at all and surely not in the original intent.
Hmmm, looks like this and the banned electrics threads have cross-pollinated
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Maybe I don't pay enough attention. I go to my shop, build planes and go fly with my friends. I have a blast doing it. When I hear guys trying to do this or that, I just shoot them a raspberry and go back to what I was doing. They don't like that they can kiss my backside.
I hope that the agitators give up eventually. But the truth is, if the rules are changed or what I like about the event changes, then me and my friend may just tell them to kiss of and have our own contests based on our own rules (the original rules) and just do our own thing. They can then do their own thing.
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I would like to interject here after reading all the very interesting posts and comments. I am back in cl after 32 years away into rc world and am having a ball:) I got very good and much appreciated help from a local fellow but than ugly politics got in the way and the new friendship was terminated prematurely by him. Instead of giving up, I just recruited my beautiful wife and best friend to be my pitman and we go out and fly on weekends in a local park. Wish I had more flying buddies but if that is not an option - my best friend is always there with me:) I am slowly learning the stunt pattern on my Smoothie and since I could care less about competition, I just enjoy myself. When I am tired of building and flying, I go for my 40 miles daily ride on one of my two road bikes. Wind in my face, bugs in my teeth, racing local dogs, smelling the fresh ploughed fields and the wild flowers in season, alone with my thoughts for 2-1/2 hours at a time - great fun. When that is not enough, I just settle in with my shuttle pipes and play some good old Irish and Scottish tunes. The internet? leave the BS to those who like that, me? I am having a ball travelling back in time. Discovering classic models and modelers of stature, talking to those I want to talk to and learn from them, and, make the best of it - however I can. This week I started on a Al Meyers P-51 Mustang. I love the challenge of building true and light. The whole fuselage is sitting in front of me as I write this, weighing just 7-1/2 ounces - pure delight:) If that's not enough, I can always go into my shop and fire an old nostalgic engine and get high on the aroma of castor oil. What's not to enjoy? Oh, yes, I just turned 58 and I firmly believe that "Old" is 15 years older than I am. Hope I make some sense to some of you at least.
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Joshua -
I love your note here and am in complete agreement; it makes a LOT of sense! You are enjoying a great hobby, and like me, also enjoy those bike rides. Your heart's in the right place, and I hope that you can continue to see the worth and enjoyment in what you do with your independent mind. It's what's inside that counts. 'sorry about your lost friend.
I try to keep all politics out of the club newsletter I edit, and try not to comment on the political remarks made at the club gatherings by folks who do not know how insulting they really are. Most of the guys are good at this too. My politics in our club is in the minority, but I have long ago learned to really like people whose politics are reprehnsible to me. Unfortunately, after I was sideswiped by a hit-and-run driver on the way to a club meeting last week, I was in a less than hospitable mood and spoke my mind on their candidate - no personal criticisms of those who held that preference. But as usual, the residual anger at someone who disagrees with at least a couple seems to be smoldering some. So I see what kind of thing this cancerous and divided political impass in this country does to us, as well as it's carry over into our hobby - the BOM rule and "change."
I wish Mike well and hope that he is able to rekindle the enthusiasm that has brought him to be so helpful and important to us in the hobby. It's not that easy to maintain one's good humor in the face of upheavals and thoughtless remarks that sometimes surface loudly on the internet. But your post most likely "made my day." I hope it touches others too. Thanks for the inspiration!
SK
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By the way, the reasoning for the R/C in the first place was what else, inclusiveness with a stated motive of old men that couldn't chase anymore.
I have to disagree with that.
My bro and I flew CL and R/C in and from our back yard in the mid 1950's. We were neither old nor unable to chase, which was however necessary. R/C at the time was nothing more than somewhat under control free flight but still fun. And at the time a normal progression.
I hope Mike doesn't really "drop out".
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There are always agitators. In anything. They can't stand it when things work or they want to change things to fit what they want or try to dumb things down so they don't have to put in the work or whatever other internal reason they have for stirring the pot. Whatever the reason, they like to agitate. If it ain't broke, it's tough to understand why some what to fix it.
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. Keep up the fight, Mike.
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There are always agitators. In anything. They can't stand it when things work or they want to change things to fit what they want or try to dumb things down so they don't have to put in the work or whatever other internal reason they have for stirring the pot. Whatever the reason, they like to agitate. If it ain't broke, it's tough to understand why some what to fix it.
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. Keep up the fight, Mike.
RANDY!
Thanks for all these years of insight and friendship.
JUST A TAD OF RAZZIN N' JAZZIN!
As you can see by this photo....what kind of damage can happen to an ol' fart who sadly spent WAAAAAAAAY TOOOOO MUCH TIME "KISSSSIN' UP!
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I have to disagree with that.
My bro and I flew CL and R/C in and from our back yard in the mid 1950's. We were neither old nor unable to chase, which was however necessary. R/C at the time was nothing more than somewhat under control free flight but still fun. And at the time a normal progression.
I hope Mike doesn't really "drop out".
You totally missed the point, I am speaking of R/C Old Timers in SAM competitive events.
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Mike! you got to be kidding. I am almost 81 years old and I am still building and flying. My interest in this hobby is still there. I am flying in contests against the likes of Paul Walker an Howard(the comedian)Rush and Others that usually beat me and I don't care because they are a great bunch of people and just fun to be around. I also fly with a bunch of retireees who are concerned about what's going on in this country and sometimes we dont see eye to eye but we still have fun and at our age that is important. I have learned over the years that we have to kind of roll with the punches and let happen what happens because we no longer are being heard by our pears but that still is no reason to bag a lifetime career in modeling and we are still an asset to this hobby just by the knowledge we have. I bet most of your freinds are modelers and I bet they feel the same way I do about all of this and what is going on today, But that is what makes it interesting. Hang in there my freind because contriversy is something to thrive on and what makes the world go around. Leo HB~> HB~> HB~>
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'There are always agitators. In anything.'
And Randy, in my experience, when things go belly up, the agitators run and hide or blame others for problems of their making.
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You totally missed the point, I am speaking of R/C Old Timers in SAM competitive events.
Sorry, I stand corrected.
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Sorry, I stand corrected.
By the way, I remember what you're talking about. My father taught me to fly rudder only with a 6' Paramount Commander, a converted cabin FF, and a ground based transmitter he built. I was 7.
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Mike! you got to be kidding. I am almost 81 years old and I am still building........
I'm inclined to agree with one thing; I'll never get tired of building balsa airplanes. Love it as much or more than actually getting to fly them. H^^
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No kidding.
Guillows even has new designs out, a Beaver and a Porter, I think (laser cut, but one could draw it all out and cut it oneself, I suppose!). I always have the "wonder" when I launch a newly completed rubber ship, will it fly?
Chris...
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Randy; That is so neat. No one in my family was interested in models when I was growing up. I started building stick and tissue models when I was 7 years old. So many of us old guys were so fortunate to grow up when we did and become lifers at modeling. I have had other hobbies, but have never quit modeling for very long at a time. When I was very young, I remember going to the park with my parents in the 40's, and watching guys cranking on old ignition engines and flying their planes. Those sights, sounds, and aromas have stuck with me all my life. It still puts a huge smile on my face to fly anything with an old sparker.
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Jim K., mentioned the stick and tissue planes. I remember getting my 10 cent Comet kits at the drugstore. While at the hobby shop Friday looked at the stick and tissue kits on the shelf. They are not cheap anymore. And the preformed plastic parts in the kits. There was one that caught my eye I may go back and get.
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Jim K., mentioned the stick and tissue planes. I remember getting my 10 cent Comet kits at the drugstore. While at the hobby shop Friday looked at the stick and tissue kits on the shelf. They are not cheap anymore. And the preformed plastic parts in the kits. There was one that caught my eye I may go back and get.
I don't think there's a plastic part that can't be replaced with some ingenuity in the workshop.
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So true.
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I've been back in CL for going on 2 years and have actually met and become friends with some of my heros from 45 years ago. Al Rabe, Don Hutchinson, Tom Neibuhr, Bob Gieske, Dave Ek, Tom Farmer, Bill Wilson, Bill Bischoff, and many more. On a personal level, I could care less at this point about any competitive issues because I can't even fly inverted on purpose. Don't care about BOM or any other rules, but I do understand that those are concerns because they raise rudimentary issues at the highest level of competition, which I am never going to experience. Consider the analogy of a competitor in the 100 yard dash, where world records are measured in 1/100th's of a second. How does a runner get 1/100th of a second faster? How are Dave Fitzgerald, Doug Moon, Paul Walker, and many of you, going to become better and more competitive at your level? I don't know, but I do know that the runner is going to have to work harder for that fraction of a second than he had to work for his first high school record, and that is why I don't take part in those discussions from the grandstands. My point is from a very selfish position. I hope you guys can settle these issues and stick around this incredible hobby to inspire us Earthlings, who love to spend time in the garage, on the flying field, and looking at photos of your planes, reading articles describing how you build straighter, lighter, and finish with cleaner lines, because that's the passion of my youth and now my "golden years."
You don't know me Mike, but I am so grateful for your contribution to me and this hobby.
Sincerely,
Steve Thornton
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BOM needed to be discussed, the hobby changed. Prefab planes became widely available. Many selling for less than the cost of building one from scratch. Sophisticated world beaters also widely available, for a price. Sorry. But I don't understand why Mike would start a thread like this. Even tongue in cheek. Many find it easy, and compatible with their dyspepsia, to look at the negative. The Nats, Brodak, Huntersville, GSCB, Philly Flyers, all the contests I attended this year were fun. Fun for me and, as far as I can tell, a big positive for most of those in attendance. The major issue is the age of those of us who practice this hobby/sport. Our bodies are breaking down. Also, we're dying off. Young folks are, for the most part, not in tune with what we do. Their interests are elsewhere. It's not their aesthetics. Civility and kindness among ourselves are in order. When possible be positive. Let's enjoy what we have as long as it is possible.
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BOM needed to be discussed, the hobby changed. Young folks are, for the most part, not in tune with what we do. Their interests are elsewhere. It's not their aesthetics.
And pre-fab versions aren't, either. The problem with all these panicky "we have do SOMETHING, NOW" plans is that no one has defined how it solves the fact that not many people care about airplanes at all in the first place, and secondly, not many people care about little toy airplanes that fly in circles on strings. Most of the plans do, however, break/damage/destroy one of the few events that still has significant appeal to *someone*. What you seem to want to do is run all the "old farts" out of the event, on the hope that new people who you haven't identified and very likely don't exist will take over.
You have found a "solution", and are looking for a problem to solve.
Brett
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And pre-fab versions aren't, either. The problem with all these panicky "we have do SOMETHING, NOW" plans is that no one has defined how it solves the fact that not many people care about airplanes at all in the first place, and secondly, not many people care about little toy airplanes that fly in circles on strings. Most of the plans do, however, break/damage/destroy one of the few events that still has significant appeal to *someone*. What you seem to want to do is run all the "old farts" out of the event, on the hope that new people who you haven't identified and very likely don't exist will take over.
You have found a "solution", and are looking for a problem to solve.
Brett
Alright, this thread like many threads has deteriorated. As such, problems are being made where there wasn't one.
We are experiencing online forums intended for communication, morph into communication break-down.
We all love our controline hobby. Lets hear how you are ENJOYING it please.
John
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I remember early on in the history of these forums agreeing with someone. Then having the person disagree with me about my agreement.
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Isn't that normal?????
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I do it all the time. Talking to myself.