stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Skip Chernoff on December 23, 2020, 01:30:37 PM
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A number of years ago my pal Steve Dinerman gave to me a 3/4 complete Potissimus Ulterius .Steve and Joe Adamusko worked on the project together . For one reason or another the model never got finished and sat collecting dust in Steve's basement (with about 20 other unfinished projects!) One day while helping Steve get his shop cleaned up, I asked are you ever going to finish that "Big Chief?" He said,"probably not,do you want it?" I said hell yeah,and brought it back to my shop where it collected more dust for about two years.
I've been recuperating from a right hip replacement 5 weeks ago and just the other day I hobbled down to my shop to keep me from going nuts watching the news. There I spied the "Big Chief" AKA Potissimus Ulterius. After a lenghty phone call with Joe Adamusko (Steve recently passed,sorry to say) we talked about making it electric powered,but after running the numbers and weighing all of the components the projected weight would be over 80 oz with a 6 cell battery.In short, we both thought that this is probably not a good weight for a pilot with bionic hips !!
The plane is designed around a Saito 72,has 770 sq inch wing including flaps (2.5 inches thick at spar!!!) 157 sq inch stab with equally large elevators. I don't have a Saito 72,nor am I about to buy one, so went looking through my available engines I found a ST 51 with tongue muffler that was Randy Smith prepared. It's a fine runner,very stout indeed!
I reweighed all conponents with the ST 51 and projected a finished weight of 58 to 60 oz. Hmmm this is more to my liking.
Just a side note... this plane would NOT be built for competition ,just to have "something different" at the field. It's great looking actually.Two questions for my pals here....Has anyone here ever seen this model in action, and do you think a good running ST51 is able to fly a 770 inch plane at 60 oz respectfully?
Any and all comments appreciated....Cheers,PhillySkip
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Hey Skip, it'll probably fly fine. Do you have a picture you can post for us to see what it looks like?
Thank you, Jerry
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I'll take a picture of the plans and of the components I have on hand. If I can keep the finished weight down it should be ok. The wing loading would be very light with 770Sq inches.
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I'll need to use an older camera with smaller files.My cell phone file pics are too big
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Skip:
Get yourself IrFanView. It works great for reducing picture size to fit on StuntHanger. I'm interested in seeing pictures of your plane.
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Hi Scott,Happy Holidays to you and your crew. I'll try to get that application.I really stink a computer stuff. Be safe,mask up...Skip
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Hey guys I emailed Scott the pics,he'll post them for me.Thanks,Scott
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This works nicely for picture re-sizing.
It's on HipPocket Aeronautics site.
https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=1369.0
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I have no experience with your particular model, but I can share some sizing experiences...
My ringmaster 800+P from Pat Johnston weighed 54 oz and was flown very successfully with a magnum 52 four stroke and an OS LA 46 2 stroke.
Our ringmaster 1000 tips the scales at 78oz and flys with a K&B 61 very well. I've actually flown this in a contest. The engine ran away and it was like holding a draft mule.... but normally just fine.
Your ST51 on that weight and size of an airplane is exactly what I would do. If that helps any.
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Here you go Skip!
By the way, what does Potissimus Ulterius mean? It sounds like the terminology that a gynecologist would be using in reference to, ahhhh, something or other....
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But wait! There's more...
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Skip build it fly it fly in contests bom only counts at the nats
and vsc st51 flown on my buccaneer at 69ozs 650sq in wing
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Just came from the AMA plans section and they do not list this plane. If possible you need to make a copy of those plans while still able to get them through the copier. I would be interested in a set. H^^
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Big thanks to Scott for posting the pics!! BTW your next homework assignment is to find out what the name means.....
Dan thanks for the link I'll try it!
Dane thanks for your insights to similarly sized models!
Doc as soon as I am able to get to a Staples I'll get you a set of plans no sweat.
Alan let's see how she flies and we'll take it from there.
All I think this plane would look great in a PT 19 scheme. Red and white stripes on the rudder ,two pilots etc... Fun Stuff for sure
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That's funny! I just came up from working on this behemouth. Got the the elevator halves joined and trued to each other ,glued hinges and joined to elevator. I'm going to run the elevator pushrod outside of the fuselage ala R/C so I can adjust trim on elevator halves. The rear of the fuse is very narrow and didn't have much clearance for adjustment of a clevis internally. I'll keep you all posted of my progress. I'm having fun with this one.It has taken my mind off of the pain in my leg from the hip replacement......Be safe,Skip
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I think this plane would look great in a PT 19 scheme. Red and white stripes on the rudder ,two pilots etc..
Absolutely! It will look great!!
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bom only counts at the nats and vsc
VSC has always used the PAMPA rules for OTS and Classic. Neither sets of rules require BOM. The Classic rules only require the BOM rule to qualify for appearance points. There are no BOM requirements for OTS
Keith
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I'll bet a Saito .56 or .62 would haul this model as well as the .72 without the weight penalty. You would be able to swing a lot more prop with the four stroke. As far as making copies of the plans, if they are particularly fragile, putting the plan between two layers of clean Mylar with the leading edge taped will get it through the machine for the first copy or for digital scanning. I would be interested in a copy. Was this design ever published? Is it of some European origin?
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!
Dan McEntee
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By the way, what does Potissimus Ulterius mean?
Ultimate Chief
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Dan ,I think that Dave Downey and Joe Adamusko were coworkers at Boeing here in Philadelphia. According to Joe, this fellow Dave was a very good designer and very knowledgable about what works. Joe explained to me that at the time, Dave designed the plane around the Saito 72 because guys were using these 4 strokes in stunt ships. Joe explained that the nose moment is short because of the weight of the Saito 72 and muffler. I'll call Joe tonight and try to get more info regarding your questions.
The plans are not fragile and should copy just fine.
One other thing ..... beside the ST 51 I mentioned I found a Saito 56 set up for stunt that was my pal's that recently passed away (forgot I had it) Also have a wonderful Enya 60III set up for stunt that gives a great break,but is a bit on the heavy side. When the model is all assembled I'll see which engine gets it closest to suggested CG............should be interesting.......Skip
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Dan ...for real....Ultimate Chief?.....Thanks
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Here are the latest photos from Skip. He'll have to post a reply with his narrative....
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Scott,! thanks man. My Eagles come on at 4:25 today so before the game I plan on gluing the wing in place. Once I'm certain that the stab incidence is correct I will glue it into place,hook up the elevator pushrod and check flap elevator movement and deflection. Having fun with this!
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Dan I just got off the phone with Joe A. and here is the story....Dave designed the plane,one set of plans were made on Boeing's printing equipment. The plane I'm working on now is the only one ever started/being built. There are no other plans anywhere. I have decided to use my Enya 60 III ,The venturi is a .272,prop will be a 12x6 or 13x5. Ken Cook is flying a 900 sq in. Magician at 80 oz with same Enya mill. He says I'll need 7 oz minimum fuel tank....I now have to open up F2 former and box out wing leading edge for tank to extend into....Skip
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Looking at those pictures I could smell the dope and the glue. The dogs don't miss the aroma of a just freshly doped plane. D>K
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If you put a Saito, (any Saito) you won't want to stop flying it. y1
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Dan I just got off the phone with Joe A. and here is the story....Dave designed the plane,one set of plans were made on Boeing's printing equipment. The plane I'm working on now is the only one ever started/being built. There are no other plans anywhere. I have decided to use my Enya 60 III ,The venturi is a .272,prop will be a 12x6 or 13x5. Ken Cook is flying a 900 sq in. Magician at 80 oz with same Enya mill. He says I'll need 7 oz minimum fuel tank....I now have to open up F2 former and box out wing leading edge for tank to extend into....Skip
From the look of the lettering and plan notations, it looks like they were drawn professionally to magazine specifications. I have some plans from Europe that resemble these, and that's why I asked. I googled the name and a dictionary definition came up for potissimus. It can mean several things depending on the context it is used in and is Latin in origin. One of those is a description for chief. Ulterius is Latin also and the basis for the word ultimate, so you get Ultimate Chief .
Type at you later and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Dan McEntee
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Dan thanks for investigation into the origin of the name. At present I need the plans to trace the top turtle deck formers ,fin and rudder. When I'm done I'll get a set out to you .If I can't get out due to my recuperation or covid worries,I'll mail you the original print.
The project is moving along nicely. I relieved former f2 to allow me to pass a 7oz tank thru the tank compartment into a pocket I cut out of the wing LE to allow the length of the tank. Tonight I should have the wing glued in ,possibly have the tail feathers glued in place. I read an old review of the Enya 60 III .With muffler removed on 5% fuel this engine would turn a 14x6 at 9000 RPM. That is impressive. This plane is going to be fun.
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Dan thanks for investigation into the origin of the name. At present I need the plans to trace the top turtle deck formers ,fin and rudder. When I'm done I'll get a set out to you .If I can't get out due to my recuperation or covid worries,I'll mail you the original print.
The project is moving along nicely. I relieved former f2 to allow me to pass a 7oz tank thru the tank compartment into a pocket I cut out of the wing LE to allow the length of the tank. Tonight I should have the wing glued in ,possibly have the tail feathers glued in place. I read an old review of the Enya 60 III .With muffler removed on 5% fuel this engine would turn a 14x6 at 9000 RPM. That is impressive. This plane is going to be fun.
I'm in no hurry and certainly don't want you to push your physical condition. When you get out and about, look into having it scanned and then put the digital file on a thumb drive. Then all you have to do is email the file, and let the recipient get it printed. Just a thought for you.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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And don't forget the old DOC. As I have a STAPLES that do terrific work on plans. Even the one I had taped together with scotch tape. H^^
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Here are some additional pictures of Skip's progress on the Possimus Ultimus. He'll have to add a Reply with some narrative. Looks good doesn't it?
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And three more....
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Thanks again Scott,I feel like you're my publicity agent!
Things are moving along nicely . The wing is glued in place,stab and elevator mounted,incidence checked 0 -0 . I had to relieve F2 former (plywood) to allow a 7oz tank to pass into the wing center section which also had to be boxed out to accept the tank.
Last night using the plans I made paper templates of all fuse top formers and will glue them to 3/32 balsa then cut them out and glue in place. The flaps are finished and hinged. The control system operates very smoothly.
Today I'll scratch build the fin and rudder and need to find my lightest wood for this. I'm concerned about tail heaviness,due to the short nose moment.
I'm certain that my estimate for the finished weight of 60 oz will not be attainable with the Enya 60. If I come in under 70oz I'll be lucky.
Everybody have a good day,stay safe, Cheers,PhillySkip
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Dan I just got off the phone with Joe A. and here is the story....Dave designed the plane,one set of plans were made on Boeing's printing equipment. The plane I'm working on now is the only one ever started/being built. There are no other plans anywhere. I have decided to use my Enya 60 III ,The venturi is a .272,prop will be a 12x6 or 13x5. Ken Cook is flying a 900 sq in. Magician at 80 oz with same Enya mill. He says I'll need 7 oz minimum fuel tank....I now have to open up F2 former and box out wing leading edge for tank to extend into....Skip
Skip,
Good choice of engines. I had a "Super Chief" with an Enya 60 7033 on it and it flew great. I used 10/22 with a 12 X 6 wood prop (I like wood props) and it would do anything you asked it to do.
Unfortunately, it pulled a little to hard for me and I sold it.
OBTW, if that Enya has a dimpled exhaust stack, it can be drilled and an OS muffler will fit right on it.
Cheers, Jerry
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Jerry this Enya had an exhaust flapper linked to the carb. I have a couple of machined plugs in the flapper holes and will come up with some type of muffler set up as we get further along. Thanks for jumping into the discussion!
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If a Fox 35 can fly a 40+oz. Nobler a good running ST51 should fly a 770 inch plane at 60 oz respectably. The right prop may be the biggest issue though.
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Hey Skip, i thought you said "no more big planes" due to neck problems. I'll have to hold your belt to fly this monster. Or let Shawn fly it. Great tribute to our pal Steve. I'm sure he's watching you finish it.
Rich
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I rotated the first picture for ya.
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I rotated the first picture for ya.
Thanks! When I reduce them sometimes they rotate, not sure why. Then I have to un-rotate them before I post them. I missed that one.
On my computer the thumbnail of that picture in my post looks normal but rotates when I expand it by double clicking it. Weird.
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Kevin thanks for helping out with the pics.
Rich,do you remember seeing this model in Steve's basement? It was tucked back in a corner covered in dust. My neck actually got better when I eliminated the Overhead 8 from my pattern.It took some time. My bum hip was more of a problem which prompted my "no more big plane comment" While recuperating from my recent surgery I decided to try to finish up some old projects.I had a 1/2 finished 1/2A Pathfinder,a started full size profile Pathfinder,an R/C Goldberg Shoestring started 40 years ago,and an R/C Corbin Super Ace started by a deceased pal......and the Potissimus Ulterius. When finished we'll all fly this big bird and remember our pal Steve.
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Skip, I don't remember seeing this model, it must have been tucked in the back. Maybe my glasses were dirty, it's hard to miss. Great tribute.
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latest picture from Skip....
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Scott thanks,and Happy New Year! I'll sheet the turtle deck,cockpit areas,and nose moment today .Looking for my lightest ,most bendable sheeting.........To everyone,lets have a great new year, PhillySkip
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Latest from Skip.....
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And some more pictures from Skip. He'll have to supply some narrative....
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Thanks Scott, As all can see the top of the fuse is covered with 3/32,cockpits cut out,top nose block in place and shaped..Today I built the rudder and fin and will install tomorrow after first covering with light weight glass cloth. Rear stab /elevator fairings are ready to install. Having a ball with this one........Cheers,Skip
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3 more from Skip....
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Keep up the good work Skip, can't wait to try a flight in the spring.With the 7 oz. tank I'll chip in for gas.
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Looks the goods mate!!
Craig
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can't wait to try a flight
Hey Skip - does that mean we all get to fly it?
Better make sure I fly it last! (Ask any of the NVCL guys what that means...... :P )
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Scott thanks again for posting my pics. Last night I carved the headrest and hollowed it out. Today I'll start hollowing out the cowling. I weighed the plane and rest of the components and it looks like the all up finished weight should be under 70 oz all dolled up. I have a feeling it should be a fine flyer.
Rich and Scott you can fly any of my planes anytime. You know why? ....Because I roll like that!......Cheers,Skip
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Okay, more pictures from Skip!
He says: "With all components at this stage 60.75 oz . With all details such as pilots, windshields and finish should be less than 70 oz. "
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Today I glassed the headrest and rear turtle deck. Tomorrow I'll continue with glassing process. I use ZPoxy finishing resin with light weight K&B cloth. I sqeegie most of the resin off with playing cards. The resin is used just to secure the cloth to the balsa. I'll fill the cloth with either homemade sanding sealer, or Rustoleum automotive primer. The fuselage will be painted with Rustoleum Gloss Enamel out of a spray can. Wings and tail surfaces will be Brodak butyrate dope products.
Today I took the plane out to the local Philly Flier field to show the guys. The guys were very complimentary. Peace,Skip
Thanks once more Scott.
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Some folks have contacted me regarding getting copies of plans for the Potissimus Ulterius. So ,I took them to my local Staples and they didn't have a machine wide enough to scan my plan. It's 36" wide. I will take the plan to a local firm that does blueprints and see what's up. So be patient, I'll get back to you all when I have info. Cheers,Skip
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Just FYI, but our local fed-Ex/Kinkos store has a copier/scanner that does 36" wide prints. Ifyou find some one that has such a machine, look into getting it scanned and put on a thumb drive so you can just send out the file. Then the recipient can deal with copying. Really makes it easier all around.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Thanks Dan I'll check into it tomorrow. Peace,Skip
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Finished glassing the big Chief. Haven't gotten the plans printed up yet for my pals here. Picks to follow.
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Attn: Gene and Dan. I went to Fed Ex today and and had 3 prints made up of the Potissimus Ulterious. One for Gene ,one for Dan ,and one for me.They came out pretty good actually! I'll PM both of you,check your messages .
As for the plane .I've finished all I can do for now. Fuselage is glassed with .06 cloth and held in place with 1/3 91% rubbing alky,1/3 epoxy resin,1/3 hardener (Zpoxy Finishing Resin). The flying surfaces are in silver coat. I'll post pics shortly.In the spring when it warms up I'll finish the plane as I can't do any kind of stinky stuff in the house ,all painting needs to be done outside.
For you R/C cats I'm finishing the building of a Carl Goldberg R/C "Deluxe" Shoestring that I started 46 years ago. It's true. I built the wing then lost interest. The kit and wing hung around all of this time. It builds into a beautiful model, but the fuselage is a real challenge. More on this project another time....Cheers,Skip
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Thank you Skip! I sent you a PM today......Gene
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She weighs 64oz with tip weight and pilots. I'll paint her in US Army livery. Can't wait to add details,windshields etc. With a finished weight of less than 70 oz watch out. She's a beast, brutal stunt fury unleashed! hehe......Cheers,Skip
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Here are some more pictures from Skip. Make sure you enjoy them as much as possible since Skip says no more progress until the swallows return to Capistrano (is that how you spell it?) :(
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Thanks for posting pics. When it warms up we'll get her done.
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Yo Doc you've got mail.....I forgot all about you wanting a set of plans....Sorry, Skip