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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Bruce Guertin on March 02, 2020, 01:09:15 PM
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Am I the only one infatuated with the immediate post war race airplanes? I just love these things. The King Cobras, Airacobras, and P-51s. I really like Jackie Cochran's Begin the Bequine and King Cobras, Race 28 and Race 30. How about the XP-40*?
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Am I the only one infatuated with the immediate post war race airplanes? I just love these things. The King Cobras, Airacobras, and P-51s. I really like Jackie Cochran's Begin the Bequine and King Cobras, Race 28 and Race 30. How about the XP-40*?
Bruce,
I know how you feel, but I'm a Golden Age, 20's and 30's kind of guy.
Still planes that race!
CB
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You are not alone...
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There are others like me?
I confess. I do like the Cavalier Mustangs because they look racey.
I did build three of Allen Brickhaus's Flying Red Horse models. I also have a foam wing here for one.
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My dad was at Cleveland in ‘49
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My Favorite was Cook Cleland's F2G Corsair!
Bob Hunt
Right with you on this, Bob! Nothing like a bent wing and a 28cyl radial roaring up front!
Gary
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Am I the only one infatuated with the immediate post war race airplanes? I just love these things. The King Cobras, Airacobras, and P-51s. I really like Jackie Cochran's Begin the Bequine and King Cobras, Race 28 and Race 30. How about the XP-40*?
I have long imagined a CL stunter with "air tubes" at the wingtips modeled after Begin the Beguine. In my imagination they make the plane fly extra stable, but in reality they may cause a similar situation as the real one.
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Heres a far out and groovy thing on Her & Her p-51s .
https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/jackie-cochrans-north-american-aviation-inc-p-51c-mustang-racer-n5528n/
parently wot did for it was INERTIA , whereas hollow round tube things , wouldnt have a lot of that .
Kieth Trostle Did a P-40 Q . pity they bent the real one . >:(
Kinda like this one . Got various scriblings on paper, for it .
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/63/4b/1b/634b1b40041c2186341370d55aeefa96--crazy-horse-leveon-bell.jpg)
(https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43652.0;attach=260460;image)
Just dropped a ST 46 in my ' No 69 ' P-51 , after Como 51 / G-51 etc . Then thought the OS FSR , wth . We'll see how it goes . 46 should handle it fine .
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Fairly straightforward paint job on this one . At this stage .
(https://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51who/images/215.jpg)
These little suckers arnt bad too . Found a couple of colour shots of Shoestring , as presented here . Blue & Orange . Not today tho .
(http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/89/0000089290.jpg)
The Yatsenko Sharks inspired buy the F 1 one .
(https://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/86/0000086330.jpg)
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Am I the only one infatuated with the immediate post war race airplanes?
A lot of my all-time favorite aircraft would be included in that group. Heck, any and all modified Warbird based racers for that matter, great stuff.
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Do they get any better than this!?!
Dennis
H^^ H^^ H^^
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These little suckers arnt bad too . Found a couple of colour shots of Shoestring , as presented here . Blue & Orange . Not today tho .
(http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/89/0000089290.jpg)
Ole Tiger, Shoestring, and Rivets.
Formula 1 royalty.
Bill Falck and Rivets came out on top that day, as they usually did.
https://www.mshf.com/hall-of-fame/inductees/bill-falck.html (https://www.mshf.com/hall-of-fame/inductees/bill-falck.html)
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Yeah, there are plenty of us on here that are Cleveland Race fans and air race fans in general. I'm home today sick and feeling a little light headed, so I may ramble a bit. I have been watching air racing in general since they were presented on ABC's Wide World of Sports back in the 60's. I think they started with the second edition of the Reno Air races when they started flying at Stead Airfield.I would sneak looks at any coverage in Air Progress magazine at the drug store ( I couldn't afford to buy them) and my older brother Tom made me one of the happiest people on the face of the earth when he took me and my younger brother Jim to some air races held here in St. Louis in 1970 that had sport biplane, formula one and T-6 classes along with a great air show. I saw an airplane crash for the first time in my life when a Pitts Special lost power just as the pack turned the scatter pylon at the start of the race. He dropped like a rock, bounced once on the wheels and flipped over. I don't recall the fate ofo the pilot by there was no delay in the event, so he must have escaped unscathed. Years later, Chris McMillin did much the same thing for me when he invited me out to Reno to crew on his Pitts Special in the Sport Biplane class.Again it was heaven on earth for me. I got to see that beautiful red and white Super Corsair in person and see it when it landed from it's trip from his home base up north, and it only had about 3 hours on it since restoration. We scrambled to the parking area where it would be shown and since it was that new, the rings were not fully seated and oil was gleaning along the length of the fuselage, and as they wiped the airplane down, it just seemed to get shinier! Cook Cleland was there and was quite surprised to see his former race mount. He was unaware that it still existed. The story behind the F2G Cosairs from their inception to today is really amazing. In short, they were powered by the largest piston engine available, Pratt and Whitney 4360, I believe, and were intended at Kamikaze chasers. 14 were built, and I don't think they saw any action before the war ended. The post war Cleveland Air Races had started up, and Mustangs were a dominant mount and available for a pittance of their original price. There were a few scattered Corsairs but were not up to the challenge. Cleland was still a Navy Reserve officer at the time, if I remember correctly, and he got the ear of a high ranking Admiral and asked to "borrow" the Super Corsairs. Three were made available for the effort, the red and white #57, the blue and white #74 and the all white #94. The exact race record for the three escapes me right now but would be considered successful since they are iconic in aviation history. The white #94 was left to rot and burned after the races were halted, and the same fate almost fell to the other two, but they were rescued by a farmer in Ohio named Bob Soplatta, who became legend for his ability to locate, and retrieve whole air frames of significant aircraft using nothing but his own two hands, and old school bus and recruiting his two children to help!. Imagine dis assembling a complete B-25 bomber and hauling it back to the farm with just that!. The Red/white #57 was restored by Bob Odegard, who managed to acquire both of the F2G's from Soplatta, and eventually had both restored and flying in their original colors. Unfortunately, Odegard was killed in the crash of #74 while practicing for an airshow. The #57 is still flying, and a few of the other F2G's still remain in museums. Out of the 14 built, I think 6 still survive, which is amazing!
I think the Beguine racer was mentioned. It crashed following a high speed stall while running in the 1949 edition of the Cleveland Air Races. It crashed into a house in near by Berea, Ohio and killed a young mother and her child. This brought about the end of the Cleveland Air Race era. I had heard an urban legand that there is a known stunt flyer that lived in that town as a youngster who has posession of a landing gear door from The Beguine. I do not know if that is true or not.
If you like this era of air race history, you have to have a copy of the book "Wet Wings and Drop Tanks." It is chock full of photos and history aboput the planes and pilots of the Cleveland Races and Bendix Trophy Cross Country Races. Jimmy Stuart was an owner of a P-51C called The Thunderbird that was piloted by Joe DeBona and won the Bendix Trophy one year. I was watching a documentary about Stuart on TV one time, and as it covered his home town it showed a shot of the store front of his father's hardware store. In the window stood the shiny Bendix Trophy in all it's glory!. There was at least one DeHavilland Mosquito involved in the Bendix Races, and was owned and flown by Don Bussart and called, obviously, "The Wooden Wonder." It wasn't all that successful, but I have a clipping from a 1949 St. Louis Star Times news paper that shows Bussart and my Uncle Bob McEntee standing next to the port engine and landing gear. Bussart intended on making an attempt at the round the world speed record and drought the airplane to St. Louis for some prep work. My Uncle Bob was Service Manager for the Brayton Flying Service at Lambert Field at that time. I don't know any details about if the attempt was ever made, but you can read all about the Brayton Flying Service and my Uncle Bob in the May, 1949 issue of Air Trails magazine.
In 2010, there was the tragic crash of the Galloping Ghost Unlimited racer at Reno, killing several people including pilot Jimmy Leeward and several spectators. We'll just leave that alone for now, but the airplane did compete at Cleveland in the post war air races. I have a friend who ran a local motorcycle parts shop, and another customer that had come in for years, and turns out he crewed on the Galloping Ghost in the Cleveland years, and saved ALL of his memorabilia from that time. He lent it to my friend and I was able to photograph it all. The story behind this is incredible to say the least. The owners of the airplane were two Indian farmer brothers, who after the war ended, wanted to get involved in the post war races and purchase a surplus Mustang. The problem was that one brother had not been discharged yet and could not make the last day of the sale where the planes where made available. He made a few promises and pulled a few strings and had one set aside for him. The only time they flew the airplane was at Cleveland. The first year they flew it in stock condition, but afterwards, they started looking into modifications. They learned how to profile the wing, and the story goes that it was so polished that you could not set a rag on the wing without it sliding off! Along the way they acquired a water injection system and spray bars from a local aviation school and each year they improved on their finish in the standings, and were actually making money. The final year, 1949, they were given some sort of "hot" fuel to run in the plane and it finished fourth, not too far behind Cook Cleland. I can not remember this gentleman's name that crewed for them, but it's amazing that he thought to save all this stuff. He even had a copy of the letter they sent to the star football player Red Grange, who went by that nick name and had it copyrighted, asking him for permission to use the name on the airplane and he agreed. This same gentleman also restored vintage motorcycles and had a 1911 Indian, that was invited to run at 100th anniversary of the Isle of Man TT races. I have yet to meet him in person but hope to while he is still on this planet.
So yeah, there are some of us who are sorts into this air race thing!. Now it's time for some medicine and a nap!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Isn't there a rubber power class that races golden era airplanes?
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Isn't there a rubber power class that races golden era airplanes?
Do a search for Flying Aces Club. They have chapters all across the country and countless classes. The Thompson Trophy class is one of the most popular. Find their web site for further information.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Yeah, there are plenty of us on here that are Cleveland Race fans and air race fans in general …
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Great reading Dan, Thanks for sharing!
Dennis
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you know for a coupla 2~3 grand you can fly a mustang in florida...google crazy horse
fly a P51 or Texan, flight video, you have the controls, aerobatics encouraged
https://www.stallion51.com/
bucket list...got the cash....not medically able...grrrrrrrr
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For those of you who have not visited, there is a web site called http://www.airrace.com/ which has some excellent articles and pictures of Air Racing. On the first web page there is a widget on the left side which reads"1946-1949 NAR" (National Air Races) which are four excellent articles on the post-war races held in Cleveland, including many excellent pictures. The 'Thompson' of the Thompson Trophy Races was Charles Thonmpson, who founded Thompson Auto Products (pistons, bearings, and later turbine blades) in 1916. The Thompson family also funded the start of Space Technology Laboratories, which became Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge, later TRW. Frederick Crawford became president of Thompson Auto Products in 1933, and later founded the Crawford Air Museum. Both were major supporters of aircraft development and airplane racing.
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Bob Odegard flew #57 down to a local airshow in Lancaster, Ohio, and I got to see it. The thing that surprised me was how relatively quiet that 4360 was. Beautiful airplane.
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Isn't there a rubber power class that races golden era airplanes?
The Flying Aces Club has two Air Racer catagories, the Thompson and Greve. The Thompson is for rubber powered models of radial engined racers and the Greve is for models of in line engined racers. Both events are mass launches with elimination rounds.
Ara
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Tsunami and Strega fan here
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rebirth of a team race sort of thing? all postwar ships with appearance points at the racing circles....?
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David: In our neck of the woods there is a Flying Aces club in the Napa/Marin County area. They have a site but not able to look it up right now. Nothing in the Sac/Lodi area...too bad.
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Hi Bruce,
Yeah, as you can see lots of us think racing planes are great and many like the post war Cleveland racers. This one is my favorite. This picture was taken after the 1946 ThompsonTrophy Race in which Cobra II was the winner by virtue of it's excellent speed and strategy of pilot Tex Johnston. Top qualifier at 408 mph, First place winner at 373 mph average speed after 300 miles.
Chris...
Am I the only one infatuated with the immediate post war race airplanes? I just love these things. The King Cobras, Airacobras, and P-51s. I really like Jackie Cochran's Begin the Bequine and King Cobras, Race 28 and Race 30. How about the XP-40*?
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This one is my favorite. This picture was taken after the 1946 ThompsonTrophy Race in which Cobra II was the winner by virtue of it's excellent speed and strategy of pilot Tex Johnston. Top qualifier at 408 mph, First place winner at 373 mph average speed after 300 miles.
Chris...
Looks like it's time for a top-end job. :##
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There's a page (I guess it is called a page) on FB for Air Racing modeling. Some of the members build pretty nice solid scale display models. Yes, I'm a member there. I saw it by accident and joined, because when ol' Dad flew P-26's in the AAC First Pursuit Group out of Selfridge Field (Detroit), they flew down to Cleveland to do some promo flyovers and stand with their sleek fighters (!) to show 'em to the throngs of civilians.
While there, they were asked to fly a Granville Brother's plane that they were trying to sell to the Goobermint. I have always wondered what model GB it would have been, and the members were able to come up with some pictures. I also asked my wife to request a copy of Henry Hafkke's book on the history of the GB racers. The book doesn't have even one picture of the plane those cats on FB came up with. It had a retracting landing gear! :o Steve
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Hi Wayne,
It was a P-63E late model engine (and prop) set-up for a certain amount of blow-by on purpose. Low compression pistons were used with a faster supercharger gear for more manifold pressure, an extra oil cooler added on the bomb rack and special oil and anti-foaming chemical used for specific oil control to keep the top end together for the whole week. It worked, they were top qualifier and won the race. It ran 145 octane gas and ADI with top manifold pressure of 90 in hg.
The same engine, with no engine disassembly flew the 1947 Thompson to 3rd place at 384 mph flown by Jay Demming too. Pretty good service!
Chris...
Looks like it's time for a top-end job. :##
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Hi Steve,
The Hawks Miller? Oh yeah, so nice. Frank Hawks asked Pete Miller to design it to replace the Travel Air Mystery Ship after the Granville Bros closed shop. Pete Miller helped design the Staggerwing Beech too, and also piloted the first 17R Beech flight.
The HM-1 was redone as a military hopeful, raced at the Thompson to 4th with Leigh Wade, I think, and Earl Ortman bailed out after structural failure during a demonstration.
Chris...
There's a page (I guess it is called a page) on FB for Air Racing modeling. Some of the members build pretty nice solid scale display models. Yes, I'm a member there. I saw it by accident and joined, because when ol' Dad flew P-26's in the AAC First Pursuit Group out of Selfridge Field (Detroit), they flew down to Cleveland to do some promo flyovers and stand with their sleek fighters (!) to show 'em to the throngs of civilians.
While there, they were asked to fly a Granville Brother's plane that they were trying to sell to the Goobermint. I have always wondered what model GB it would have been, and the members were able to come up with some pictures. I also asked my wife to request a copy of Henry Hafkke's book on the history of the GB racers. The book doesn't have even one picture of the plane those cats on FB came up with. It had a retracting landing gear! :o Steve
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Hey Dan,
Remember the Kansas City Air Races? Mickey Rupp blew up his Roush motor, Tiger welded his block closed and prayed and Dennis was running the 4360 pretty wide open to try to win. Tiger stayed in front and didn't blow, Dennis was second and Kevin in the Super Corsair got passed by Rheinchilds in Risky Business for third. Pretty good race and the CAF had the P-40 for acro display.
Hangin' with the boys Saturday night was a good time for me because I hadn't seen my SoCal and racing friends for a while since moving to St. Louis. The Museum guys, Lloyd Hamilton, CJ Stephens, Lyle Shelton converting everyone to his guy at the Phoenix 500, drinks, girls, political intrigue... it had it all!
Chris...
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I used the construction methods of Dave Shipton's 1/2A model of Bill Odom's P-51C "Beguine" for a series of 1/2A sheet wing kits. I can easily produce a kit of the "Beguine" from the files for my 1/2A P-51B. Those airplanes have materials to build them for a radial mount engine or a beam mount engine.
The post war air racers were great airplanes, our Unlimited racers today are stock and modified WW II airplanes.
Pat
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The "Beguine" is my all time favorite. I've always wanted to do one, but there's no way I'd be able to do a creditable job on the fuselage music. It'd come out terrible. But I've always thought it'd be cool to show up at the Regionals with a "Beguine" for scale.
Mark
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Hi Wayne,
It was a P-63E late model engine (and prop) set-up for a certain amount of blow-by on purpose. Low compression pistons were used with a faster supercharger gear for more manifold pressure, an extra oil cooler added on the bomb rack and special oil and anti-foaming chemical used for specific oil control to keep the top end together for the whole week. It worked, they were top qualifier and won the race. It ran 145 octane gas and ADI with top manifold pressure of 90 in hg.
The same engine, with no engine disassembly flew the 1947 Thompson to 3rd place at 384 mph flown by Slick Goodlin too. Pretty good service!
Chris...
Yep, I was actually kind of joking there Chris. I've looked at that photo many times over the years and just thought wow, how cool it would have been to be there in those days. The extra info is very interesting and those were some really exceptional results out of a 'Cobra, thanks!
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Hi Wayne,
It was a P-63E late model engine (and prop) set-up for a certain amount of blow-by on purpose. Low compression pistons were used with a faster supercharger gear for more manifold pressure, an extra oil cooler added on the bomb rack and special oil and anti-foaming chemical used for specific oil control to keep the top end together for the whole week. It worked, they were top qualifier and won the race. It ran 145 octane gas and ADI with top manifold pressure of 90 in hg.
The same engine, with no engine disassembly flew the 1947 Thompson to 3rd place at 384 mph flown by Slick Goodlin too. Pretty good service!
Chris...
Great info Chris, those guys knew what they were doing!
Dennis
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Hi Wayne,
Yeah I knew that! Most of that is lead from a rich mixture too. More conservative thinking to keep 'er together.
Cobra I was pretty much a twin to it, Jack Woolams qualified at 397 mph and reported detonation. That is why he flew back to Buffalo to get a new engine. Back then you just got a whole new engine, why mess around! Testing it in the evening light he crashed for unknown reasons, thoughts of cause were from bird through the windshield to failure of the aft fuselage longerons. Cobra II was made a kit of longeron doublers attaching the mid fuselage to the aft tailcone riveted over the outer skin and these were installed and painted at Cleveland. When the airplane was restored and modified to Cobra III in California 1967 to 1968 it retained these as well as had a single piece skin made to the left side mid to forward fuselage to stiffen the forward section completely eliminating the left door. Later the same company (Pylon Air) removed the doors altogether on Crazy Horse, the P-63 King Cobra with the midget bubble canopy and the forward skins were remade over both sides and thicker. The King Cobra fuselage twisting was an issue for proper rigging of the motor to the intermediate driveshaft bearing halfway to the prop reduction gearbox when racing (Tipsy Miss broke windows during deformation at race power), and the Airacobra aft fuselage had a record of deformation and failure during combat in Russia and they were run through a mini refit program when new ones got to Russia during the war for doublers over the radio doors on the aft tailcone. (Many had the wing guns removed, and all had the charging cable routes rerigged for the twin .50's in the nose and the 37 mm cannon too.)
What always amazed me was that no one could get a King Cobra to go as fast in the 60's and 70's as Chuck Tucker did in the 40's, whom used a stock motor on water at modest overspeed. Same with Cobra II over Mr. Mennen even through Mr. Mennen never had a real comprehensive racing program. The Bell group's philosophy was the most successful, even though the Allison group's later KF-1 operation of Cobra II with new G-6 engines did yield faster speeds. 418 mph quals and 413 mph lap times during the race. Too bad they didn't finish the race in 1948.
Chris...
Yep, I was actually kind of joking there Chris. I've looked at that photo many times over the years and just thought wow, how cool it would have been to be there in those days. The extra info is very interesting and those were some really exceptional results out of a 'Cobra, thanks!
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They had it down. Tex Johnston was a driven man, his desire to win was strong. That test pilot order of thought brought them the victory, he was a good leader for his crew.
Chris...
Great info Chris, those guys knew what they were doing!
Dennis
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Hey Dan,
Remember the Kansas City Air Races? Mickey Rupp blew up his Roush motor, Tiger welded his block closed and prayed and Dennis was running the 4360 pretty wide open to try to win. Tiger stayed in front and didn't blow, Dennis was second and Kevin in the Super Corsair got passed by Rheinchilds in Risky Business for third. Pretty good race and the CAF had the P-40 for acro display.
Hangin' with the boys Saturday night was a good time for me because I hadn't seen my SoCal and racing friends for a while since moving to St. Louis. The Museum guys, Lloyd Hamilton, CJ Stephens, Lyle Shelton converting everyone to his guy at the Phoenix 500, drinks, girls, political intrigue... it had it all!
Chris...
Hi Chris;
I most certainly do! The most amazing thing about that weekend was that my wife let me go! Our wedding anniversary was that weekend and my argument was that we would have plenty more anniversaries but who knows when air racing would come back to the midwest again! And it hasn't! No security at the airport at all when we arrived in the middle of the night, and parked in what turned out to be the race pits! If we had wanted, I think we could have gone the whole weekend without paying anything if we never left the pits! I did have my doubts about what the level of competition would be when we found out that it was only a 6 mile course, and then in one of the unlimited heat races on Saturday I think it was Bill Anders was leading for a few laps in a T-28!! Watching Tiger's team tear down his race engine was fun, and watching Matt Nightengale post race the 4360 in the Super Corsair with just one or two open end wrenches to check all the manifold bolts! A quick spark plug check on one of the rear cylinder plugs and all they had to do was pout the crank case heater dip stick in and they were done for the night. All the Merlin teams were really thrashing. I think I set a record for how long I could nurse a beer at the hotel bar! I'm glad I had my Wild Weasel T-shirt on or CJ Stevens might not have given us the benefit of his experience with shooting an F-4 cannon pod so your rounds wouldn't end up behind you! I took pictures that weekend but none from the hotel bar. I'll have to see if I have them in a album or not. I started to do that a few years ago but never finished, but I know I got as far as putting Reno 1999 in albums so maybe I did. If you ever get into town for an extended lay over I'll dig them out. I have all my photos from my film cameras all in one tub or in albums so no too hard to find. That race was on ESPN I think I may have recorded it and may still have the tape. Fun times for sure! And we started out with just a 12 pack of Diet Pepsi, a pound of bologna, a bottle of ketchup, a loaf of bread and a large bag of popcorn! And I got my copy of "Gentleman, You Have A Race" from Howard Pardue himself! Seems like only yesterday!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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They had it down. Tex Johnston was a driven man, his desire to win was strong. That test pilot order of thought brought them the victory, he was a good leader for his crew.
Chris...
You just gotta love a guy who thought it was a good idea to roll a 707 in front of a large crowd and then say he was just trying to sell airplanes!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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[quote
The "Beguine" is my all time favorite. I've always wanted to do one, but there's no way I'd be able to do a creditable job on the fuselage music. It'd come out terrible. But I've always thought it'd be cool to show up at the Regionals with a "Beguine" for scale.
Mark
[/quote]
Mark,
I have a scan from the Hobby Hideaway kit. It could be cleaned up and used for a decal. The .tif is just under 1 Meg. the .jpg is 7.7 Meg. the .pdf is 700K.
Pat
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That's what i was thinking, Pat. The way stencils work today that paint scheme would be no problem for a careful guy.
Chris...
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If anyone wants the files I have for the Beguine decals give me your email address, and I'll send them. y1
Pat
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wasnt there a profile stunt Beguine in flying models or whatever , around the 70s .for a 35 or 40 .
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If anyone wants the files I have for the Beguine decals give me your email address, and I'll send them. y1
Pat
Hi Pat;
I'll take you up on that. I'll PM you my email address. If you send the file to Callie Graphics, and give her a dimension that they need to fit in, she can work wonders on it. Not sure when I would get to the project but having the file somewhere won't hurt.
Thanks a lot,
Dan McEntee
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wasnt there a profile stunt Beguine in flying models or whatever , around the 70s .for a 35 or 40 .
Allen Brickhaus did a kit bash of the Four Pi P-51 R/C fun fly model in the May 2002 Flying Models. I haven't looked at it in a while but IRC it was a pretty extensive article and also covered his rattle can finishing method. There was one or two specific graphics suppliers that he used and that is probably how he addressed that detail issue. I'll have to dig that out and review it. I don't remember any other model of the Beguine being published, either stunt or scale.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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One Rabe Bearcat, one Rabe Mustang, one Rabe Sea Fury and I'd be done... Able Cat, Beguine and Signal Sea Fury!
Chris...
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One Rabe Bearcat, one Rabe Mustang, one Rabe Sea Fury and I'd be done... Able Cat, Beguine and Signal Sea Fury!
Chris...
I'm with you there, but the Sea Fury would have to be reduced size. I don't know if I could hang onto the full sized beast! I have plans for the Bearcat and Mustang, but nothing on the Sea Fury.
One little side note on Air Racers. While standing in line for dinner at Moya Lear's house at Reno in 1999, I heard two gentleman talking behind me about Bearcats and Sea Furies. One gentleman was saying that he wasn't sure which was which. I turned around to give them the benefit of my years of experience in aircraft identification and found myself facing the Lead and Opposing Solo pilots ( numbers 6 and 7) of the Thunderbirds! I asked if I could clarify that for them, and after wards they thanked me and I just had to ask the question, "How did you get to be an F-16 pilot and a member of the Thunderbirds with out knowing the difference between those two?" He just chuckled and told me he only had about 7 hours in propeller driven airplanes. I jokingly asked if they didn't have to take some kind of aircraft knowledge test before getting the T-Birds interview and he said no. He didn't even have much interest in aviation until he got into college. It was fun joking with them for a bit, said good evening and be careful up there. That was quite a night!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Ah, Moya's Thursday night parties.
I always was impressed by the Reubens over the divan and Collier Trophy in the hall!
Chris...
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Not a pitts?
One Rabe Bearcat, one Rabe Mustang, one Rabe Sea Fury and I'd be done... Able Cat, Beguine and Signal Sea Fury!
Chris...
I would have to build something like this. Its kind of family thing.
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Hi Steve,
The Hawks Miller? Oh yeah, so nice. Frank Hawks asked Pete Miller to design it to replace the Travel Air Mystery Ship after the Granville Bros closed shop. Pete Miller helped design the Staggerwing Beech too, and also piloted the first 17R Beech flight.
The HM-1 was redone as a military hopeful, raced at the Thompson to 4th with Leigh Wade, I think, and Earl Ortman bailed out after structural failure during a demonstration.
Chris...
Yep, that's the one. It seems to me that a lot of Granville Bros. airplanes suffered structural failure while airborne. That's not cool!
To complete the story, the USAAC guys were instructed to dial in full right rudder trim prior to takeoff, because rudder authority was not enough to control the torque. Seems bizarre to me, but I'm not a pilot. Dad did fly it, and told me that it flew ok, with less visibility and bigger engine than the P-26. He didn't mention the retracting LG to me. Apparently, one of the next USAAC guys failed to remember the rudder trim trick and "rolled it up in a ball", ending the demonstration. Maybe a ground loop? The Haffke book has nothing about this. '' Steve
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I'm with you there, but the Sea Fury would have to be reduced size. I don't know if I could hang onto the full sized beast! I have plans for the Bearcat and Mustang, but nothing on the Sea Fury.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Hawker_Sea_Fury_FB.11_N878M_LGB_17.10.70.jpg)
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(https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=45265.0;attach=298853;image)
(https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=45265.0;attach=298855;image)
Thats a scale planform 60 odd inch Hawker TEMPEST wing . as the fuse is at 80 % ish , the loss'd be a bit more than the gap between flaps ,
for a SCALE planfom sea fury . :P Say 4 inch less center section . As a Tempest joined at fuse sides , Sea Fury on center line .
Then youd have to Clip the TIPS ! .
Wot Tripe . Think Id use as is , with squarer tips , maybe a mite in . Got the Fuse plug for molding the ( Tempest / Typhoon ) sides
almost ready to use . Sea Fury'd come of it too , sectored . Cockpits a foot higher , tail plane 6 inch . Otherwise V similar . :P
Little Cosmic wind canopy on that & Greenameyers Bearcat . Peridically takes the fancy .
Someone used the paint job on a Beriger derived sea fury . said it looked like No Nose, in the air . So resprayed it all yellow . :(
(http://www.pylon1.org/articles/uploads/missmerced/1970/miss_merced_70m_jtc01_tn.jpg)
info ere . http://www.pylon1.org/articles/publish/article_61.shtml
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Hi Dan,
It was just a .60 ship. There are no plans for the Sea Fury but I have a short kit, some drawings and a DVD of the construction of another later one by Al. Together they can create a good replica of the original according to Al. John Callentine did one in electric and flew it in Super Seventies at VSC a few years back.
Chris...
I'm with you there, but the Sea Fury would have to be reduced size. I don't know if I could hang onto the full sized beast! I have plans for the Bearcat and Mustang, but nothing on the Sea Fury.
One little side note on Air Racers. While standing in line for dinner at Moya Lear's house at Reno in 1999, I heard two gentleman talking behind me about Bearcats and Sea Furies. One gentleman was saying that he wasn't sure which was which. I turned around to give them the benefit of my years of experience in aircraft identification and found myself facing the Lead and Opposing Solo pilots ( numbers 6 and 7) of the Thunderbirds! I asked if I could clarify that for them, and after wards they thanked me and I just had to ask the question, "How did you get to be an F-16 pilot and a member of the Thunderbirds with out knowing the difference between those two?" He just chuckled and told me he only had about 7 hours in propeller driven airplanes. I jokingly asked if they didn't have to take some kind of aircraft knowledge test before getting the T-Birds interview and he said no. He didn't even have much interest in aviation until he got into college. It was fun joking with them for a bit, said good evening and be careful up there. That was quite a night!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Sorry to intervene, but I'm a fan of PRE-War air racers...when small groups of guys built nasty machines from spruce and tubing. I really don't see the point of racing vintage WWII fighters with engines designed in the 1930's-1940's. I also am concerned about how the pilots are qualified to fly such machines, how well their planes are inspected, and putting such stresses on these old airframes.
A friend and his wife were spectators when the big crash happened at Reno (about 8 years ago?) and narrowly escaped with their lives. I've personally seen a fatal USAF Thunderbird crash, and have been in the area when other fatal airshow crashes happened. I was in 5th grade when I saw the T-bird crash, and remember it well. Maybe that's why I'm not a fan of airshows. I like to go see them parked on the ramp and doing fly-overs. I well remember seeing an F-104 doing a minimum radius 360 deg. turn during an airshow at Edwards when I was 15, and I really enjoyed seeing the white Bardahl P-51 taxi by and then do a VERY high speed low pass at Sand Point NAS, when I was 17. Mira Slovak was the pilot.
You know what Chuck Yeager said about old pilots and bold pilots! IMO, Getting off the ground in an airplane is serious business, and I don't think it's wise to push your luck anymore than you absolutely have to. Yes, the airplanes are cool, but damned dangerous. I'd prefer to see them do solo trips through a speed trap just to see which one is fastest, call it good, and award the trophies. D>K Steve
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Scuse .
(https://www.airplanesandrockets.com/airplanes/images2/sea-fury-al-rabe-aam-march-1973-17.jpg)
Al Rabes CRITICAL MASS Sea Fury Derivative , was in the BRODAK Control Line Mag . Same wing'n all .
Theres a DRAWING OR TWO of the actual SEA FURY , nowadays . will dig out and photograph , youll aveta trackit yourself .
Thisn is from where his canopies are gottable .
(https://parkflyerplastics.com/cart/bmz_cache/1/113jpg.image.266x200.JPG)
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I ave meown hawker Typhoon , Tempest, sea Fury , ditto sabre, Ditto Miss Merced & blind mans bluff on paper , all correct shapes , & a semi scale 'urricane .
Out with the camera .
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My favorite current Unlimited Racer is Precious Metal P-51 with a RR Griffon and contra-rotating prop. It is based in Kissimmee FL near Stallion-51 center. Unfortunately it caught fire on the ferry flight to Reno 2 yrs ago, and Thom Richards is slowly working to get it back in the air. He would work faster, but $$$ needs means he has to keep flying the T-6s w/tourists to generate income.
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I'd love to find out the real color of Chuck Tucker's #30 P-63. Easter egg blue or Robin's egg blue.
There was an article back in one of the warbird mags about a P-63 that was owned by three or four young fellas. In the article it appeared to be black. Anyways, in the story they recounted the various props used and the different air intake scoops developed by NACA. One of which looks suspiciously familiar to the one out in my garage. One of these fellows went on to work in the space program.
I saw the photo of the P-40Q. It look's like it was Merlin powered.
I'm sorry about how vague my post seems but, I no longer keep old magazines around. They take up too much floor space.
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Traa Daahhh .
I think the first two , would be Kyle Tankersley . Perhaps . thats how its spelt .
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" All of the XP-40Q aircraft were powered by two-stage supercharged Allison V-1710 engines and a four-blade propeller. "
(https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/curtiss-xp-40q-1-front.jpg)
' borrowed ' from - https://oldmachinepress.com/2015/08/18/curtiss-xp-40q/
(https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/curtiss-xp-40q-2a-race-82.jpg)
Cor , wonders never cease. And on a Saturday, too . :-X
(http://www.airrace.com/images/30%20P-63,%20King%20%20Tucker%20-01.jpg)
(http://www.airrace.com/images/30%20King%20Tucker%2002.jpg)
Via google pitchers : http://www.airrace.com/1949%20NAR%20.htm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/LZBH22VSHnDxpD7cyTgeensIr8R6YvA2SHtNxAAzh566kbYRD9sBJYerF2uWqZjL4ntX5GMvJYi6k-BAypOwyDu1koMWfU_vraR63Unczk_W)
Oops. Not to wullie . :-\
Been scribling the Cobras to . Mostly ' crazy horse ' Hard one to get right as a ' super scale ( ish ) stunter . As has flat underside , almost.
Between / thru wing intakes . My Hurricane was stable etc in wind , so figure that wing . ( Once or twice ive almost lifted the framed up one )
The NOSE is the ' character ' piece - to my mind . Inverted'd lower mass ( thinking of the Wing / Vert. C. G. ) But side mount'd be cleaner .
ELECTRIC you could hook up the scale wing intakes and Rad. Outllets . S?P Ducts wouldnt even get Fuel soaked , so real clean .
In more ways than one .
Funny photos / lenses emphisise the spinner & make it look symetrical - which provides a lower thrust line & a brader ' engine bay ' if I C e ,
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/P-39Q_Airacobra.png/880px-P-39Q_Airacobra.png)
Theres actually a fairly tubby overweight sorta stunt fairly scale English Aircobra M.a.P. plan . But id like it a lot more athleteic . >:( mw~ H^^
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Theres DECALE DOWNLOADS for most of these, HHERE ; http://www.geocities.ws/na73xkeith/post-war.htm . ive just now found . !@
(http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17573&d=1318180864)
1-3. P-63C #30 "Easter Egg" (NX63231 / AAF 44-4126) - Owned & raced by Charles Tucker. For 1949- Tucker qualified 5th-fastest @ 393.328-mph & placed 3rd in the 7-lap Sohio @ 381.529-av/mph & finished 5th in the 15-lap Thompson Trophy @ 378.340-av/mph to win $2000.00 prize money. Tucker first raced #30 to 7th-place in the '46 Bendix (racing his other P-63 #28 that year in the pylon events) w/an average speed of 367.149 (5:34:46) f/the 2048.5 miles run fm Van Nuys to Cleveland. Tucker returned w/it in '47 to qualify 15th @ 360.986-mph- which got him into the 7-lap Tinnerman Trophy (an all P-63 affair that year) to finish 2nd @ 347.168-av/mph.
http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?9479-Lockheed-Bob-s-1949-Cleveland-Air-Races-Pics&s=d2d160b7a801b8e8fcadf4f3bab9e8cb
(http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17600&d=1318380507)
(http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17601&d=1318380516)
(http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17599&d=1318380496)
More . http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?7845-Postwar-Kingcobra-questions
Looks like its poipill.
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/b0/c7/16/b0c716878333b38d4fe407f592e1d4ff--easter-eggs-lavender.jpg)
Can be got B I G out of pintrest , via google pics. ////// " Chuck Tucker's #30 P-63 " /////// if youre ' signed in ' . :P
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My favorite current Unlimited Racer is Precious Metal P-51 with a RR Griffon and contra-rotating prop. It is based in Kissimmee FL near Stallion-51 center. Unfortunately it caught fire on the ferry flight to Reno 2 yrs ago, and Thom Richards is slowly working to get it back in the air. He would work faster, but $$$ needs means he has to keep flying the T-6s w/tourists to generate income.
Rough n ready Paul winter ' Strega ? ' work over .
(http://flystunt.com/images/22/008616-R1-22A.jpg)
RIGHT , i'll shut up , for now . ;D LL~
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As a retired race pilot I can tell you these arguments are as old as aviation. Considering how long the Reno event has gone on, it is a pretty good safety record.
Chris...
Sorry to intervene, but I'm a fan of PRE-War air racers...when small groups of guys built nasty machines from spruce and tubing. I really don't see the point of racing vintage WWII fighters with engines designed in the 1930's-1940's. I also am concerned about how the pilots are qualified to fly such machines, how well their planes are inspected, and putting such stresses on these old airframes.
A friend and his wife were spectators when the big crash happened at Reno (about 8 years ago?) and narrowly escaped with their lives. I've personally seen a fatal USAF Thunderbird crash, and have been in the area when other fatal airshow crashes happened. I was in 5th grade when I saw the T-bird crash, and remember it well. Maybe that's why I'm not a fan of airshows. I like to go see them parked on the ramp and doing fly-overs. I well remember seeing an F-104 doing a minimum radius 360 deg. turn during an airshow at Edwards when I was 15, and I really enjoyed seeing the white Bardahl P-51 taxi by and then do a VERY high speed low pass at Sand Point NAS, when I was 17. Mira Slovak was the pilot.
You know what Chuck Yeager said about old pilots and bold pilots! IMO, Getting off the ground in an airplane is serious business, and I don't think it's wise to push your luck anymore than you absolutely have to. Yes, the airplanes are cool, but damned dangerous. I'd prefer to see them do solo trips through a speed trap just to see which one is fastest, call it good, and award the trophies. D>K Steve
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The wing on Tucker’s purple Easter Egg #30 is the same wing as N9009 of 1970 to 1972.
Chris...
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I have the top and center photo drawings I’m pretty sure the bottom one too. From Al about 10 years ago.
Chris...
Traa Daahhh .
I think the first two , would be Kyle Tankersley . Perhaps . thats how its spelt .
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Am I the only one infatuated with the immediate post war race airplanes? I just love these things. The King Cobras, Airacobras, and P-51s. I really like Jackie Cochran's Begin the Bequine and King Cobras, Race 28 and Race 30. How about the XP-40*?
I love to read about them. Even the pre WWII races were interesting- would anybody finish the race? I love the lines of the P-39. To me it's just pretty, like a Spitfire. The Goodyear racers were fascinating back than and still are. Amazing how fast the same basic engine can pull the new designs.
Some of the newer Unlimited formula racers are really fast and elegant, but the variety from WW-II has so many different looks! The Rare Bear and the Sea Fury fast and gutsy.
F4U-G came from the factory with the 4 row engine. Only a few hundred were made, so they were sort of the first of the really unlimited racers.
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I'm always amazed at how fast aviation progressed in the first half of the 20th century. Two worlds had more than a little to do with that I'm sure. Just from 1935 to 1940 is startling. So, that being said is the P-51 faster than a Spitfire and is the wing that makes the difference.
I'm color blind so I don't see that Turner's Race is purple. To me it's light blue. Is it actually purple?
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Anybody remember the races at Cape May in '71? Ed.
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F4U-G came from the factory with the 4 row engine. Only a few hundred were made, so they were sort of the first of the really unlimited racers.
The "4 row" 4360 powered Corsairs were actually known as the F2G "Super Corsair". They only built fifteen of them, five "X" model prototypes and five each of the two "production" variants.
From Google: Only fifteen F2Gs were built: five pre-production XF2Gs (BuNos 14691 - 14695), five F2G-1s (BuNos 88454 - 88458), and five F2G-2s (BuNos 88459 - 88463). F2G-1s were intended to operate from land bases, not aircraft carriers. They had a manually operated wing fold mechanism and no tail hook. They were equipped with a fourteen-foot diameter propeller. F2G-2s were built with hydraulically powered wing fold mechanisms and tail hooks for carrier operations. Their propellers were thirteen feet in diameter.
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My wife describes it as lavender or light lilac.
Chris...
I'm always amazed at how fast aviation progressed in the first half of the 20th century. Two worlds had more than a little to do with that I'm sure. Just from 1935 to 1940 is startling. So, that being said is the P-51 faster than a Spitfire and is the wing that makes the difference.
I'm color blind so I don't see that Turner's Race is purple. To me it's light blue. Is it actually purple?