Author Topic: Please Help Me Identify This Nice Old Plane (Read 1707 times)

Skip Chernoff · « **on:** March 27, 2019, 08:35:11 PM »

As part of an estate buy out I ended up with this very well built vintage plane. The engine is a Bunch and turns over with good spark. What plane is it? Thanks,PhillySkip

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2019, 08:42:39 PM »

I wouldn't have a clue even if you did post the wingspan, but -- post the wingspan, please!

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2019, 08:52:47 PM »

Wing Span is approx. 38" I'm wondering if it was an old Berkeley kit?.....Is it a scale model of something?

Tony Drago · « **Reply #3 on:** March 27, 2019, 09:20:16 PM »

It looks like the old Falcon kit. The Sportsman or the Cadet

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #4 on:** March 27, 2019, 09:36:55 PM »

Tony thanks, What would be the time frame for that kit? Cheers,Skip

Tony Drago · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2019, 10:07:46 PM »

Most likely late 40's to very early 50's

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2019, 10:23:25 PM »

I'm going to put some transparent Monokote on the wing,turtle deck,and cockpit area.I also need to make a rudder. Can't wait to fly it .I'm new to these sparker engines. I'm wondering if I go to one of the plan services if a plan still exists for the Sportsman or Cadet?

Tony Drago · « **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2019, 10:31:14 PM »

Some kits do show up on eBay as well as the plans. Sometimes a seller will make a copy of the plans from the kit and sell them to you.

Peter in Fairfax, VA · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2019, 01:46:25 AM »

Nice find. Not one you see all the time. Monokote? Not sure that matches the period, but the clear part would work to show the structure.

It's a lot of work for an eBay seller to copy plans. Another strategy is to buy a kit, copy the plans yourself, then sell the kit.

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2019, 05:16:01 AM »

Peter, tissue or silkspan doesn't work well at the field where it will be flown. I could use silk or even Coverite......but I'm real good with Monokote, so I'll stick with that. I'll paint the fuse and tail group with clear butyrate dope. It will look fine, I promise.

So far the closest plan I could find was the Falcon Cadet on Outerzone.....but THIS model has a double taper wing and the plan shows a constant chord wing. It also kind of looks like a plane Messerschmidt made as some kind of trainer for the Me109???....or a Globe Swift. Cheers,Skip

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2019, 11:58:34 AM »

The Bunch engine is a ,45 cuin displacement and is also a sideport. These engines work OK going round and round, but the induction method doesn't work well for stunting, especially when mounted upright. You will have a devil of a time getting it to run the same both upright and inverted.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2019, 02:32:13 PM »

The fuse and canopy resemble the Tethered Trainer. So it looks like someone may have started with that and built a tapered wing. Floyd has one with the straight standard wing.

Ara Dedekian · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2019, 03:06:08 PM »

Quote from: Skip Chernoff on March 27, 2019, 08:52:47 PM

Wing Span is approx. 38" I'm wondering if it was an old Berkeley kit?.....Is it a scale model of something?

An Me 108 Taifun?

Ara

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2019, 03:28:45 PM »

Sure does resemble the Taifun!

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2019, 03:38:40 PM »

Floyd, the venturi is located on the rear of the engine slightly to the right of center. Does that make it a side port? It has the stock fuel tank back there so inverted flight would be interesting. I'll just fly it around and get a feel for these "sparkers". If it works ok I've got a Super Zilch with a large tank compartment. I could mount it there for some more spirited flying. I'd have to find a place to put the coil,condenser,switch and batteries. What is your opinion of the Bunch engine? Thanks,Skip

PS. would the Bunch I have work better side mounted or inverted?

Trostle · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2019, 05:05:51 PM »

I have Aeromodeller Plansbooks that show the control line models published by Aeromodeller from before 1950 thought the 60's. There is nothing there that closely resembles the model shown in the photos above. There is a Globe Swift shown for CL scale, 40" span, with tapered wings and more rounded wing tips. The fuselage is fully planked (as in no stringers) and is wider that the model shown. The engine would either be side mounted or inverted, published in September, 1952, so probably was not for ignition. I could find nothing else in the Aeromodeller material I have that comes close to this model.

I also have a listing of all of the British Model Builder magazine that was published from the late 40's to the early 60's. There is nothing there from the "ignition era" that suggests the model pictured came from these early Model Builder magazines.

There are some design cues to this airplane that suggests it might have been "inspired" by a Miles Aircraft design. I have a book that shows all Miles aircraft and none really show the appearance that this model has.

I have had access over the years of all the Air Trails, Model Airplane News, Flying Models and other magazines that published model airplane plans from the mid-40's through the "spark ignition" era and have never seen a model that resembles this one. I suspect it is a one-of-a-kind model, designed to somewhat resemble a full size aircraft, but still retain the fuselage mounted wire gear. Because of the ignition engine installed, I do not think there would be any question that this would be deemed OTS legal by the OTS officialdom (PAMPA and/or whoever else). Maybe it could be reverse engineered to generate plans that could be considered by such "officialdom". Would be an interesting project.

Keith

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2019, 06:12:57 PM »

Thanks all for jumping into this thread.

Tony Drago · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2019, 10:15:28 PM »

Plans are available on eBay. The seller is hollans. The item number 233162762236 . The plan is of the falcon Sportster looks like the plane that you have. But the plan shows a flat bottom airfoil

Peter in Fairfax, VA · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2019, 06:13:19 AM »

Interesting that it is set up for anti-clockwise. Not sure what year that switched. Maybe 1953, roughly, slowly phased in?

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2019, 11:17:28 AM »

Even just flying round and round, that stock plastic tank is for free flight. Might feed fuel for a few laps, but centrifugal force will uncover the fuel pick up tube. Even with a separate stunt tank, the venturi will always be too far above the tank for reliable inverted flight.

The Bunch (Tiger, probably) is a ringed engine and fairly strong for its design era (pre WWII).

The line of Bunch .45 engines have small variations in design; (Tiger, Gwinn Aero, etc.) but all are sdeport induction.

This picture shows a Bunch Tiger running. It has the factory metal tank bolted to the rear of the engine.

paw080 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2019, 02:59:23 PM »

Quote from: Tony Drago on March 28, 2019, 10:15:28 PM

Plans are available on eBay. The seller is hollans. The item number 233162762236 . The plan is of the falcon Sportster looks like the plane that you have. But the plan shows a flat bottom airfoil

You're right Tony; except that the airfoil is a semi symmetrical, not a flat bottom.

Look here; https://www.ebay.com/itm/Falcon-SPORTSTER-PLAN-PARTS-PATTERNS-to-Build-37-Old-Time-UC-Model-Airplane-/233162762236?hash=item36499567fc

Tony G

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2019, 04:16:12 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on March 28, 2019, 05:05:51 PM

I have Aeromodeller Plansbooks that show the control line models published by Aeromodeller from before 1950 thought the 60's. There is nothing there that closely resembles the model shown in the photos above. There is a Globe Swift shown for CL scale, 40" span, with tapered wings and more rounded wing tips. The fuselage is fully planked (as in no stringers) and is wider that the model shown. The engine would either be side mounted or inverted, published in September, 1952, so probably was not for ignition. I could find nothing else in the Aeromodeller material I have that comes close to this model.

Him Keith.
Yes, it does resemble the Swift.
I have been interested in building a semi-scale stunt version of my Swift (see photo) and I was wondering if I could get a copy of your plans - or at least, an address where I could by the Plansbook.
Are the plans available from any website?
Bob Z.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #22 on:** March 29, 2019, 06:22:13 PM »

Sorry for high-jacking the topic

but this is the first time I've ever seen mention of plans for a Swift.

Bob Z.

Trostle · « **Reply #23 on:** March 29, 2019, 07:11:10 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on March 29, 2019, 04:16:12 PM

Quote from: Trostle on March 28, 2019, 05:05:51 PM
I have Aeromodeller Plansbooks that show the control line models published by Aeromodeller from before 1950 thought the 60's. There is nothing there that closely resembles the model shown in the photos above. There is a Globe Swift shown for CL scale, 40" span, with tapered wings and more rounded wing tips. The fuselage is fully planked (as in no stringers) and is wider that the model shown. The engine would either be side mounted or inverted, published in September, 1952, so probably was not for ignition. I could find nothing else in the Aeromodeller material I have that comes close to this model.

Him Keith.
Yes, it does resemble the Swift.
I have been interested in building a semi-scale stunt version of my Swift (see photo) and I was wondering if I could get a copy of your plans - or at least, an address where I could by the Plansbook.
Are the plans available from any website?
Bob Z.

Hi Bob,

As I mentioned above, I have several issues of the Aeromodeller Plansbooks. These show a small photo of the model by Ian Buxton of the Globe Swift in the Control Line Scale section. One issue does not have a date but was probably printed in the mid to late '50's. It has the caption under the photo: "A scale stunt model that really will stunt!. 40 inches span and suited to 5 c.c.engines, model features, a "drop-out undercarriage and planked fuselage. Published September, 1952. CL/484"

I do not know if you have ever used Aero Fred Model Plans. They have 10's of thousands of model plans.

https://aerofred.com

I did a search there and they have several plans for the Globe Swift, including an RC model, several FF models and behold, the Aeromodeller plan CL/484.

https://aerofred.com/details.php?image_id=81473&mode=search

Hope this comes through for you.

I think you can down load plans from their site. I have received several plans from this group. Prices are "reasonable" but postage is a bit steep. I think they are in Portugal.

Let me know if this works out.

Keith

Tony Drago · « **Reply #24 on:** March 29, 2019, 09:56:14 PM »

Quote from: paw080 on March 29, 2019, 02:59:23 PM

You're right Tony; except that the airfoil is a semi symmetrical, not a flat bottom.

Look here; https://www.ebay.com/itm/Falcon-SPORTSTER-PLAN-PARTS-PATTERNS-to-Build-37-Old-Time-UC-Model-Airplane-/233162762236?hash=item36499567fc

Tony G

Tony thanks for the correction, that's what I meant