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Author Topic: Please help identify these Mystery Motors  (Read 872 times)

Offline Jim Hoffman

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Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« on: July 15, 2018, 11:28:56 AM »
I am trying to identify a few motors that belonged to a friend who passed last year.
Everybody enjoys a mystery.  Follow the link to see photos
Thanks for your help.

Mystery 1      No markings at all.  Cast case.  Rear intake, Rear exhaust, Brass liner      https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ8FJJ2gqYcLm-Fh-l

Mystery 2   Suspect it is a McCoy 29 w/ custom front end .  Cast case, side exhaust, Rear Intake, Veco spinner. 
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ8FNwmCMpzEed9Xbn

Mystery 3   Looks to be 40 size.  No other markings except Fox
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_DnP0ljBKrl-7rWG

Mystery 4    Rear intake, side exhaust   glo
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_DqGuJKBF2EtwW_s

Mystery 5    No markings at all.  Cast and polished case. Appears to be unrun.   Rear intake,  Dual side exhaust,  Dual ring.  Champion glo plug.   
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_Dwk0-BZ9CPtBkOF


Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2018, 11:54:18 AM »
I am trying to identify a few motors that belonged to a friend who passed last year.
Everybody enjoys a mystery.  Follow the link to see photos
Thanks for your help.

Mystery 1      No markings at all.  Cast case.  Rear intake, Rear exhaust, Brass liner      https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ8FJJ2gqYcLm-Fh-l

Mystery 2   Suspect it is a McCoy 29 w/ custom front end .  Cast case, side exhaust, Rear Intake, Veco spinner. 
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ8FNwmCMpzEed9Xbn

Mystery 3   Looks to be 40 size.  No other markings except Fox
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_DnP0ljBKrl-7rWG

Mystery 4    Rear intake, side exhaust   glo
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_DqGuJKBF2EtwW_s

Mystery 5    No markings at all.  Cast and polished case. Appears to be unrun.   Rear intake,  Dual side exhaust,  Dual ring.  Champion glo plug.   
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_Dwk0-BZ9CPtBkOF


    #2 is a McCoy 29 with a custom prop drive. The original had a long aluminum prop drive adapter that was drive with a 1/16 square key about 3/4" long. This was to adapt it to drive a propellor instead of a flywheel and gear for a tether car (Dick McCoy apparently never flew model airplanes). These were often lost, this looks like a replacement. The rest of the engine looks stock (aside from the pressure tap). That one is hacked to death, probably for B TR or Speed.

    #3 Fox 40 Stunt "Large Case", Good runner, not very powerful, and HUGE. Put it next to a Magnum 36, with only 10% less displacement (and WAY more power). There have been several threads on this one recently.

     #4 Ohlsson 60 Sideport (missing most of the parts like the intake) Weak, runs either way easily on glow, flies apart if you try to run it too hard.

    Brett


Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2018, 12:04:26 PM »
#1 is a lovely piece, but doesn't look like a Wisnewski engine. Looks more like a Wiley, but I wouldn't suggest that it is. Where your late friend lived might give a clue...Texas, So.Cal, Bay Area Cal., etc. Any idea about displacement?

#2 Is a McCoy .29 with a customized prop driver/spinner setup.

#3 The Fox is the '70's Fox .40 Stunt that GMA was said to have designed. It's a Schnuerle ported engine, and is said to do a very nice 4-2-4 without a lot of power and quite heavy.

#4 Sideport O&R. Looks like a .60, and in pretty good condition.

#5 For some reason, I keep thinking "Thunderbird .60", but I wouldn't put $ on that. Nice example, tho.

Somebody should have one of the model engine collectors books and be able to straighten out my fubars.  n~ Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Online De Hill

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2018, 12:26:16 PM »
#5 is a 1946 Ignition "Supercharged" Thunderbird manufactured by Scott motors in Phoenix, AZ.  It was made in .604 -.647 displacements.

A racing version was also made.

It had an internal supercharger, but would run faster if the supercharger was removed.
De Hill

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2018, 12:30:04 PM »
#5 is a 1946 Ignition "Supercharged" Thunderbird manufactured by Scott motors in Phoenix, AZ.  It was made in .604 -.647 displacements.

A racing version was also made.

It had an internal supercharger, but would run faster if the supercharger was removed.

   The cylinder looks like an Ohllsson 60. Do you know if that's what they used and built the rest of the engine around it?


    Brett

Online Double Deuce

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2018, 01:18:47 PM »
Number 1 is a DJS. Probably a  29. Dub Jett and John Shannon are responsible.

Double Deuce

Online Jim Kraft

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2018, 01:53:21 PM »
The Thunderbird does appear to have an Ohlsson cylinder, but that is only in appearance. Could be. The rest is definitely Thunderbird with the twin stacks and rear valve.
Jim Kraft

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2018, 02:27:31 PM »
With no head screws, it seems like they (Thunderbird) at least copied the O&R method of retaining the one piece cylinder/head. Unfortunately, that was one of the problematic features of the O&R design. Maintaining the seal is difficult with this flaky system. In those days, designers were obsessed with exhaust flow and not enough with intake flow and porting. There were lots of ideas in this new field, and not all were good.  D>K Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2018, 03:05:54 PM »
Thank you everybody for some speedy and useful input.  My friend has hundreds of motors, many are vintage.  I am cataloging them and will be likely be offering them for sale on Stunt Hanger in the future.  I'd love to find a serious collector to buy them all.

#1 is a lovely piece, but doesn't look like a Wisnewski engine. Looks more like a Wiley, but I wouldn't suggest that it is. Where your late friend lived might give a clue...Texas, So.Cal, Bay Area Cal., etc. Any idea about displacement?



Steve - Both my friend and me are long time Phoenix area residents.  There are some Willy Wiley 40's in the collection.  I shot some photos of both together. 
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_Evv7K3folUsFRpV


Number 1 is a DJS. Probably a  29. Dub Jett and John Shannon are responsible.

Double Deuce

Double Duece - A google search of your input found this page in RCgroups website.  I think you are correct about the DJS origin. Thanks.    Based on the size, I suspect it's bigger than a 29.  Did they make a 40?. 
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1402733-Vintage-Glow-Engines/page565

#5 is a 1946 Ignition "Supercharged" Thunderbird manufactured by Scott motors in Phoenix, AZ.  It was made in .604 -.647 displacements.

A racing version was also made.

It had an internal supercharger, but would run faster if the supercharger was removed.
De - Since both my friend and me are long time Phoenix area residents, I suspect your are correct.  Thanks

Online De Hill

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2018, 03:12:47 PM »

The Ohlsson used spot welds to retain the cylinder.

The Thunderbird used machine screws going up through the crankcase and into the bottom of the cylinders.




With no head screws, it seems like they (Thunderbird) at least copied the O&R method of retaining the one piece cylinder/head. Unfortunately, that was one of the problematic features of the O&R design. Maintaining the seal is difficult with this flaky system. In those days, designers were obsessed with exhaust flow and not enough with intake flow and porting. There were lots of ideas in this new field, and not all were good.  D>K Steve
De Hill

Online Double Deuce

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2018, 04:02:03 PM »
Thank you everybody for some speedy and useful input.  My friend has hundreds of motors, many are vintage.  I am cataloging them and will be likely be offering them for sale on Stunt Hanger in the future.  I'd love to find a serious collector to buy them all.

Steve - Both my friend and me are long time Phoenix area residents.  There are some Willy Wiley 40's in the collection.  I shot some photos of both together. 
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar9Wo0dWSEwZ_Evv7K3folUsFRpV


Double Duece - A google search of your input found this page in RCgroups website.  I think you are correct about the DJS origin. Thanks.    Based on the size, I suspect it's bigger than a 29.  Did they make a 40?. 
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1402733-Vintage-Glow-Engines/page565
De - Since both my friend and me are long time Phoenix area residents, I suspect your are correct.  Thanks

Not sure how this is going to work out but will try to answer.

The DJS 29 fin area finishes at about 1.5 inches in diameter which is about 1/8 in larger than say a K & B 29 R. In your hands they do look big.

I cannot say if they sold any 40's or not. Story best told by them.

My suggestion would be to pull the head and measure the bore. 29 should be .748-.750, about.

My comment, "probably a .29" comes from the 15 case and 29 case castings are very near alike, except for size, and unless you have one of each in a picture, or a size reference in the picture, it is hard to say which is which. 

Hope this helps.

Luke

Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2018, 04:20:00 PM »
Hi Luke (Double Deuce)
Based on the dimensions you provided, Mystery 1 is a 29

Cylinder head OD:         1.507”
Case OD at the fins:   1.535”
Cylinder bore:             0.748”
It weighs 12.00 oz. (341 grams)
Thanks for the help

Online Double Deuce

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 09:45:33 AM »

Glad the mystery is solved. Proud to help.

Now, would someone who knows, please enlighten me as to the engine with the W cast on. For whatever reason, probably too many birthdays, I am drawing an absolute blank on this engine. Tell me who, when, where, please. 

Thanks so much.

Luke

Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2018, 10:31:45 AM »
Hi Luke,
They are Willy Wiley 40’s
Google “Willy Wiley 40 engine” there are some links out there

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2018, 02:35:46 PM »
While I don't doubt De Hill one little bit, I'd love to see a picture of the Thunderbird that shows the cylinder attachment screws. Please, Jim?  y1 Steve

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2018, 03:45:46 PM »
Steve,  here ya go...………..



Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2018, 03:47:57 PM »
While I don't doubt De Hill one little bit, I'd love to see a picture of the Thunderbird that shows the cylinder attachment screws. Please, Jim?  y1 Steve

   It looks like someone took an O&R cylinder and drilled it for mounting screws. If you can build the rest of the engine from scratch, making a slight modification to a pre-existing part would be simple.

   Brett

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2018, 03:55:23 PM »
Thunderbird

Online De Hill

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2018, 04:23:40 PM »
If you look in the exhaust stacks of Garth's Thunderbird pictures, the cylinders have windows cut in them.
(the windows are used in ringed engines)
To my knowledge, O&R did NOT make cylinders with windows.





Thunderbird
De Hill

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2018, 08:53:52 PM »
Thanks for the extra pictures, Jim. Would have been easier with socket head screws and a ball driver, huh?  D>K Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Please help identify these Mystery Motors
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2018, 12:18:00 AM »
If you look in the exhaust stacks of Garth's Thunderbird pictures, the cylinders have windows cut in them.
(the windows are used in ringed engines)
To my knowledge, O&R did NOT make cylinders with windows.

   Not to mine, either, since they were all slug-piston. The windows are to keep rings from spreading out. Still, they are otherwise identical to an Ohlsson 60 on the outside, down to the number of fins on the head and cylinder, the position and shape of the head fins, the cutaway around the glow plug, etc. The one difference I can see other than the bars across the exhaust ports is that the finish is shiny black, rather than the dull black oxide I have always seen on Ohlssons. I also haven't seen any new Ohlssons, so maybe they were shiny until they got hot a few times.

    Brett


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