Plans for Ted Fancher's 2004 WC plane..

[Ted Fancher]

Finally, here is a sort of fuzzy shot looking back into the pipe tunnel from the front (the aft end of the tank compartment with the engine cowl removed.

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

Well, I'm getting carried away now and I really should be packing the van for the Golden State Stunt Champs but, what the heck....

Here are a couple pix of the engine cowl before and after paint (by the way, all the painted shots were made before color sanding and clear coat if they look a little grainy to you).  

It might be of interest to know how all of the inlet and outlet "blisters" were made.  These are the tubular growths that provide the shape for the extended outlets that go beyond the plane of the fuse itself.

These were made by taking a foot long piece of brass tubing of the desired diameter and giving it several coats of a wax mold release to insure that epoxy wouldn't adhere to it.  I then made a sandwich of light weight carbon veil on both sides of a sheet of A grain 1/32" balsa that had been soaked in ammonia and water (then patted dry with a paper towel to remove surface moisture).  30 minute epoxy was the "mayonnaise" holding the sandwich together. The sandwich was carefully cut to size so that when wrapped around the tubing there would be a very small gap ~ 1/64-1/32" to insure they wouldn't overlap. The length of each sandwich was around 10-11" or so so it provided the raw material for several "blisters".  The sandwich was than wrapped around the waxed brass tube and held in place with saran wrap (to protect the) ACE bandage which then secured the sandwich to the tube. 

After the sandwich was cured it was unwrapped, popped carefully off of the brass tube and then the seam was glued together with CA.  It was now a foot long tube that weighed almost nothing but was very strong.

Wherever I wanted a "blister" I would cut out a hole using sharpened brass tubing (slightly smaller than the sandwich tube) at the approximate angle I wanted the "blister" material to exit the cowl.  The size and angle of the cutout was then fine tuned using sandpaper on dowels/brass tubing.  A chunk of sandwich was then cut off with approximations of the final angles and glued in the holes.  A little putty and sandpaper finalized the shape.  The final product ends up making a boring hole in a cowling a lot more exciting!

The first pic is of the cooling air inlet for the hot section of the tuned pipe on the inside of the engine cowl prior to finishing.  The second pic is the engine cowl and the inlet can be seen in the aft half of the left side of the cowl.  The outlets in the pipe tunnel in the previous pix and on the top of the fuse behind the engine are additional examples of the technique.

Ted

[Randy Powell]

That is fine work, Ted. I'm always amazed by your creativity and inventiveness. I really liked that plane a lot. It inspired me to buy the RSM full kit (that is still sitting under my bench). But your work has found it's way into my own stuff more times than I can remember.

Love the pictures.

[Bill Little]

Some awesome stuff, Teddy!

Your stuff sometimes reminds me of F-1 work.    The CF stuff they do and wild shapes are reminiscent of your cowls!

(didn't get close enough to read the Playboy issue !! )

Mongo

[Matt Colan]

Simply awesome pics Ted!!  I just hope mine will turn out half as good as yours when I finish mine.  Now with the cheek cowls, did you add them while you were still carving the cowling?  It's another part of the construction I'm wondering about.

[Jose Javier Rodriguez]

Spectacular and wonderful work. Ted you should build another model to delight us with your artwork.

Thank you for teaching.

Greetings

[Randy Powell]

The prettiest Non-Fancher built Trivial Pursuit I've seen is Claudio Chacon's Voodoo. Has the look of a Ted built unit.

[PJ Rowland]

Always enjoy seeing models in veil.

How did you do the open bays?

[Claudio Chacon]

The prettiest Non-Fancher built Trivial Pursuit I've seen is Claudio Chacon's Voodoo. Has the look of a Ted built unit.

Well Randy, that's quite a compliment! Thank you VERY much! The downside of your kind words is that they unleashed my compulsive necessity for posting pictures in here...so....I CAN'T REFRAINNNNN
So guys....Randy is the culprit!

Mr. Fancher, I salute you!

Kindest regards to you all,
Claudio

[john e. holliday]

Claudio,  you, Randy P., Ted F., Windy U. and all the rest just blow my mind with the work you do on your planes.  I keep trying with each one I do now to have a little more patience when finishing, but then I get the itch to get it in the air.  Thanks for the fantastic photos.

[Ted Fancher]

Simply awesome pics Ted!!  I just hope mine will turn out half as good as yours when I finish mine.  Now with the cheek cowls, did you add them while you were still carving the cowling?  It's another part of the construction I'm wondering about.

Hi Matt,

Thanx!

I always "shape" the entire fuselage as a single unit.  Yes, including the little "cheeks" on the cowl.  Both of the cowlings and all of their holddown nuts and bolts are installed with everything unshaped.  The upper blocks and turtle decks and aft lower fuselage blocks are "tack glued in place (use model airplane cement like Sig, and place a dot of glue every three or so inches.  Just enough to adhere and still be able to pop the blocks off afterward).  I also like to install the engine with the spinner attached (this will take some work on the inside of the cowl to get it to fit which is just fine because otherwise you may be tempted to "over shape" the outside and then find out the engine won't fit in it!).

The little cheeks are glued in place on the cowl (and some of the aft portion on the main fuselage) again using Sig cement (try not to use CAs or epoxy on joint that will have to be shaped as they make the balsa hard and difficult to fair with the balsa not so affected). 

Now you simply carve and plane and sand to your heart's delight until everything ugly is removed and nothing but "pretty" is left.  Then pop off the tack glued parts and unbolt the cowlings and proceed with assembling the wing and tail the the fuse box that has already been shaped.  You'll find this is about 1000 times easier than trying to shape the fuselage with the wing and tail already glued in place.

Hope this helps.  I wish I had some pix that show the cheeks clearly but all of my (limited) pix of the cowl are already in primer.

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

Always enjoy seeing models in veil.

How did you do the open bays?

P.J.  Attached is a pic that shows the silkspan covering over only the open bays and the veil over pretty much every thing else. 

[Ted Fancher]

Always enjoy seeing models in veil.

How did you do the open bays?

Always enjoy seeing models in veil.

How did you do the open bays?

P.J.  Attached is a pic that shows the silkspan covering over only the open bays and the veil over pretty much every thing else.  I DO NOT SUGGEST ANYONE DO THIS.  IT WAS PART OF THE REASON MY WING FAILED AT THE FUSE IN THE HIGH WINDS.  This is the only airplane on which I've not covered the entire wing from tip to tip with silkspan with an overlap in the middle of the wing.  This is also the only wing I've ever had fail under stress.

The reason I've covered wings that way is to insure uniform resistance to shear from tip to tip.  silkspan provides a surprising amount of strength to a wing (about all such strength an I- beam has other than the spar).  I figured the veil would do the same job and it did cover the entire sheeted parts of the wing.  I think the difference in the characteristics of the very rigid veil and the more giving and flexible silkspan allowed the fuse to act like a big cleaver over a structurally vulnerable rigid surface.  In the future I would still use the veil but would recover the entire wing with silkspan as well to provide that resistance.

Of course, I would probably do a better job of insuring a good glue joint between the wing spars and the spar joiners...something that wasn't achieved on the outer wing lower spar joiner.

Ted

[PJ Rowland]

gday ted,.

So you didnt re-cover the open bays with veil after the silkspan?

[Ted Fancher]

gday ted,.

So you didnt re-cover the open bays with veil after the silkspan?

No, I didn't, P.J.  That never occurred to me.  I used the veil as a substitute for the Silkspan over the balsa because it takes less dope to fill and finish and I thought I'd save weight by doing so.  In retrospect I believe that to have been a mistake as it is more brittle and subject to fracture than the silkspan.  I stress, however, that I've no particular expertise in area and this is only an opinion.

Ted

[john e. holliday]

I think Tom Morris shows covering the wings of his planes by over lapping poly span over the center section.  Some guys worry that hurts the gluing surface of the wing to the fuselage.  But, I myself have not had that problem.   Also I got away from the carbon fiber veil on the solid surfaces.  About 6 to 8 coats of clear on the solid surfaces makes putting the poly span on easier and fills better.   

[Ted Fancher]

Well Randy, that's quite a compliment! Thank you VERY much! The downside of your kind words is that they unleashed my compulsive necessity for posting pictures in here...so....I CAN'T REFRAINNNNN
So guys....Randy is the culprit!

Mr. Fancher, I salute you!

Kindest regards to you all,
Claudio

Claudio,

Beautiful work.  I especially like the "layered" look of the pipe tunnel.  The tunnel appearing to be a separate part rather than faired into the basic fuselage.  Looks very "functional" while fulfilling its aesthetic function.  A nice variation on the belly scoop!

YOu can build my planes any time.

Ted Fancher

[Claudio Chacon]

Claudio,

Beautiful work.  I especially like the "layered" look of the pipe tunnel.  The tunnel appearing to be a separate part rather than faired into the basic fuselage.  Looks very "functional" while fulfilling its aesthetic function.  A nice variation on the belly scoop!

YOu can build my planes any time.

Ted Fancher

Hello Ted,
Yes indeed, the pipe tunnel "hood" is a separate part from the rest of the fuse. I had to build it that way because
this is a take apart plane. And, besides the TEN (!) 2-56 socket head screws that I have to remove to detach that pipe cowl at every flying session, yes, it is functional...
Anyway, the Voodoo is still giving me service since 2003. More than 600 flights and counting...

By the way, I'm sure that everyone here in stuntland would love to see another of your masterpieces airborne again...
Indulge us!

Many Thanks and best regards,
Claudio.

[Ted Fancher]

Hey, anyone who can land a DC-8 (And that's one of the planes that Ted flew for United for a long time...) can land anything I'm told... 

Bob Hunt

Bob,

That's right.  A DC-8 is hard to land softly.  Only us Supermen can do it! 

Ted

[John Lindberg]

Ted, by Sig cement, I suppose you are referring to "Sig-Ment", rather than their alphatic glue, am I right here? Thanks, John Lindberg. Got any pics on how you bolt the pipe enclosure on the plane? Very interesting! 

[Ted Fancher]

Ted, by Sig cement, I suppose you are referring to "Sig-Ment", rather than their alphatic glue, am I right here? Thanks, John Lindberg. Got any pics on how you bolt the pipe enclosure on the plane? Very interesting! 

Absolutely John.  I should have made that distinction.  Plain old fashioned model airplane cement (although I don't recommend Ambroid for external seams unless the finish will be something other than dope).

I'd love to take some pix of the pipe securing mechanisms but, alas, the subject matter was buried somewhere in a Muncie  sanitation facility.  The system was very much like Claudio's except I believe I only used eight 2-57 bolts and "T-nuts".

Ted

[dale gleason]

I could not land a DC8 without using both hands on the yoke....I'm referring to the -71s. I was told that enough engineers left Boeing and went to Douglas so that by the time the DC10 came out, it was easy to handle, even little old ladies could one-hand it. But Boeing, under Howard's leadership, got it right with the Triple Seven, which required only a pinkie and the pointer finger of the left hand...much the way some fellows fly a stunt ship....

What in the world has this got to do with carving a cowling??

dg 

[John Lindberg]

A dumpster at Food Lion got the remains of the well flown Magnum after a puff of wind blew the stooge line over the down elevator cable upon release. I think CA is impossible to sand, I'll try some Sig-ment, Sig has good stuff.

[Ted Fancher]

I could not land a DC8 without using both hands on the yoke....I'm referring to the -71s. I was told that enough engineers left Boeing and went to Douglas so that by the time the DC10 came out, it was easy to handle, even little old ladies could one-hand it. But Boeing, under Howard's leadership, got it right with the Triple Seven, which required only a pinkie and the pointer finger of the left hand...much the way some fellows fly a stunt ship....

What in the world has this got to do with carving a cowling??

dg 

Hi Cap'n Dale.

Hardest part of flying the -71 was getting the darn thing to descend with those big CFM engines at idle!  Had to descend from altitude early because at 250K below 10,000 it wanted to stay airborne for miles further than the same airplane with the JT-8s (the DC8-61s).  Reversing the inboards to descend/slow (no flight spoilers on the DC-8s) was like hitting a brick wall.  You were required to seat the flight attendants and tell people what was going to happen.  As a result, we just didn't do it!

Anyhow...

A canopy is almost a cowling so I thought I'd post a couple of pictures of the S.E. canopy and the Ace Pilot therein.  The culinary delights are a pepperoni pizza (with a slice missing and the pizza cutter on hand for the next slice) and a tall cool one to wash it down with.  For reading material we've got a Chronicle (from crazy S.F.) and a life magazine.  Feels just like being back in the cockpit at UAL, right!

Happy Holloween.

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

Here's the other picture of the front view of the canopy.  Couldn't get them both in the first post.

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

And, finally, just for the heck of it here's one last picture of the ship in veil before filleting and finishing.  Thanks to everyone for your interest.

Ted

[Matt Colan]

Hi Ted,

The air scoops and the fins on the bottom just seem to add a whole bunch of character to the already great looking airplane!  Here's where I'm at now with mine, I hope you guys approve after seeing Class A workmanship 

[dale gleason]

I apologise for the torpedoing of such a great thread on such a great design, but I just cannot avoid a trip down memory lane when it comes to large tubes with silvery wings.

 Better keep those wings level landing the 71 in a x-wind....oops, there I go again! Sorry.

dg 

[John Lindberg]

Maybe you have already mentioned this, Ted, but what did you use for paint? Thanks for the pics, looking forward to seeing more of Matt's building pics. 

[Randy Powell]

Ted,

It's a shame that this plane is no longer around. I know it's a pain, but you really should build another.   

[Ted Fancher]

I apologise for the torpedoing of such a great thread on such a great design, but I just cannot avoid a trip down memory lane when it comes to large tubes with silvery wings.

 Better keep those wings level landing the 71 in a x-wind....oops, there I go again! Sorry.

dg 

Naw, you don't have to worry, Dale.  The nice thing about the CFMs was that they made great tip skids!

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

Maybe you have already mentioned this, Ted, but what did you use for paint? Thanks for the pics, looking forward to seeing more of Matt's building pics. 

Hi John,

It was all dope.  Mostly Brodak as I recall.  The gold was clear with gold powder added to it. The R, W and B were pretty much stock colors, I believe although I might have added black to the blue since I'm not a fan of "bright" blues.

Ted

p.s.  Speaking of paint.  I've often referred to the "pond scum" Trivial Pursuit--so named by Bob Hunt for reasons known only to the Bronze Dog man his own self.  This was initially the R, W and B Great Expectations that I took to the WCs in Shanghai in 1994.  Strangely, I've got no pictures that I can recall of that airplane in that paint job.  It also won the 1995 Nats in that color scheme.  I later refinished it in the infamous pond scum colors and it won the nats again--IIRC--in 2000.  Here's a picture of the Pond Scum version.

[Randy Powell]

I loved the bug plane. Brilliant inverted landing, by the way.

[Will Hinton]

Ted,
When I asked Steve Wooley what shade of green he called his original Argus, he called it Pond Slime green, so you're in great company - and well deservedly so.
Blessings,
Will

[john e. holliday]

Hi Ted,

The air scoops and the fins on the bottom just seem to add a whole bunch of character to the already great looking airplane!  Here's where I'm at now with mine, I hope you guys approve after seeing Class A workmanship 

Matt, looking at that picture makes me think you have nothing to be ashamed of in construction.  Seems like it has been a while since I seen a post from you.   Are you getting ready for the team trials?

[John Lindberg]

I have the video, done by Bruce Hunt, of the "pond scum" version landing upside down at the Albany contest. Later it was discovered that a bee had landed in the venturi and choked off the engine. Probably worse than having one crawl inside your unattended pop can and the taking a drink from the can, said bee exacting revenge for disturbing it's sugar craving by stinging the mouth of the true owner of the can of pop. Just looking for a hand-out, I guess. 

[Matt Colan]

Matt, looking at that picture makes me think you have nothing to be ashamed of in construction.  Seems like it has been a while since I seen a post from you.   Are you getting ready for the team trials?

DOC, I don't have anything to be ashamed of anything either in the construction so far.  I'm waiting until I get further into the construction to post pics of the plane.  I'm not sure about the Team Trials even though I still REALLY want to attend, because I might be too old to fly in Junior during the WC.  I'll be 17 during the Team Trials, and depending on the dates of the worlds, I could be 17 or 18, and I'm not sure what the maximum age is in FAI for junior.  But we are going to be going to the NATS, and am getting ready for that.

[Ted Fancher]

I have the video, done by Bruce Hunt, of the "pond scum" version landing upside down at the Albany contest. Later it was discovered that a bee had landed in the venturi and choked off the engine. Probably worse than having one crawl inside your unattended pop can and the taking a drink from the can, said bee exacting revenge for disturbing it's sugar craving by stinging the mouth of the true owner of the can of pop. Just looking for a hand-out, I guess. 

Wow, John.  I didn't know there was a video of the "Great Bee in the Bonnet" landing.  Can it be posted on U-tube?  I'd love to see it.  It all happened so fast for me I didn't really have time to "admire" the beauty of it all! 

Ted

Can't help myself.  Here's a pic of my old "Temptation" whose paint job was the inspiration for the Special Edition.  This airplane met its demise the morning of the Walker Flyoff at one Nats or another.  First needle flight was a bit fast so I refueled, cranked it up and richened the mixture a bit.  Took off and the speed seemed perfect.  Pulled up into the wingover and about the time it got vertical the engine quit like someone flipped a light switch.  Crashed straight in putting a hole in the concrete with the spinner nut.  The three blade CF prop was good as new.  Coujldn't say the same for the plane it was attached to.  Alas   Probably needless to say, the gentleman checking it out is the Bear himself; Bob Gieseke.

[Ted Fancher]

Ted,
When I asked Steve Wooley what shade of green he called his original Argus, he called it Pond Slime green, so you're in great company - and well deservedly so.
Blessings,
Will

Will,

I'll take that comparison any day!  Pretty classy company.

Ted

Picture here is for Matt.  I found some other construction pix in a different folder.  I think this will show you how the cowl was assembled and shaped.  Hope it helps.  Your wing looks awesome, by the way.

[Jose Javier Rodriguez]

How great you are Ted, these photographs demonstrate the artist you are, continue to teach, thanks.

[PJ Rowland]

Pond scum is actually Green tho. So i I never understood that reference. !

Its more of a Spider bite Puss purple.. !!!



 

HHAHA

Ted about your cowl, the photo doesnt show clearly how you shaped it, As in, I can see blocks but it simply looks like you spent alot of time getting the shape of the inlet just so?

Perhaps a short Article about the cowl - how its fitted, how it was shaped would benifit?

[Jose Javier Rodriguez]

Ted

  This was initially the R, W and B Great Expectations that I took to the WCs in Shanghai in 1994.  Strangely, I've got no pictures that I can recall of that airplane in that paint job.  It also won the 1995 Nats in that color scheme.

I leave a photo of Great Expectations and Trivial P. original. 

[Matt Colan]

Will,

I'll take that comparison any day!  Pretty classy company.

Ted

Picture here is for Matt.  I found some other construction pix in a different folder.  I think this will show you how the cowl was assembled and shaped.  Hope it helps.  Your wing looks awesome, by the way.

Thanks Ted!  All these pictures, and these little notes about building the Trivial Pursuit have really helped!  I'm hoping to get some more work done on it tomorrow!

[Matt Colan]

New question for you guys.  I'm going to be using a 14" prop on the RO-Jett 76 I'm going to be putting in the motor, so would a Rabe rudder be neccessary to put on the plane because of the extra GP?

[John Miller]

Hi Matt, I can't see a real down side to making provisions for a Rabe rudder. I use one on my Legacy with a 12 ich prop, and wouldn't not use it.

[Ted Fancher]

New question for you guys.  I'm going to be using a 14" prop on the RO-Jett 76 I'm going to be putting in the motor, so would a Rabe rudder be neccessary to put on the plane because of the extra GP?

Matt,

It can't hurt to have the means available for the Rabe rudder.  The one thing I'd encourage you not to do is to plan in advance what prop you'll be using.  Motor's (especially big ones) can swing a variety of props without breaking a sweat.  The bottom line for a stunt flier is what prop flies the airplane so well everybody else hopes you'll stay home!

David's been pretty successful with a .75 running a 12.5 X 4.1 or so prop on his WC airplane and no Rabe rudder.  The T.P. isn't a great big airplane and there is no guarantee a big prop will be the best match.  Ryan Young just won the Junior World Champs with one of David's .75 in an airplane with a T.P. wing and a 12.5 prop.

Not discouraging the Rabe rudder.  Just trying to keep you aware that you need to keep your options open.  Remember, the original T.P. flew competitively with a variety of props and engines from a .40VF to several different kinds of .60s.  The props on the various engines have had more in common than they did in differences.  The bottom line with powertrains is that the propeller is the interface between the airplane and its environment.  It is more important that the prop suit the airplane than that the propeller meet some predetermined set-up that proved successful in another combination.  There is something to be said for a prop that allows the engine to do its job without straining. 

I'm very impressed with your approach to the event, Matt.  Hope someday we get to spend some time together.

Ted Fancher

[Matt Colan]

Matt,

It can't hurt to have the means available for the Rabe rudder.  The one thing I'd encourage you not to do is to plan in advance what prop you'll be using.  Motor's (especially big ones) can swing a variety of props without breaking a sweat.  The bottom line for a stunt flier is what prop flies the airplane so well everybody else hopes you'll stay home!

David's been pretty successful with a .75 running a 12.5 X 4.1 or so prop on his WC airplane and no Rabe rudder.  The T.P. isn't a great big airplane and there is no guarantee a big prop will be the best match.  Ryan Young just won the Junior World Champs with one of David's .75 in an airplane with a T.P. wing and a 12.5 prop.

Not discouraging the Rabe rudder.  Just trying to keep you aware that you need to keep your options open.  Remember, the original T.P. flew competitively with a variety of props and engines from a .40VF to several different kinds of .60s.  The props on the various engines have had more in common than they did in differences.  The bottom line with powertrains is that the propeller is the interface between the airplane and its environment.  It is more important that the prop suit the airplane than that the propeller meet some predetermined set-up that proved successful in another combination.  There is something to be said for a prop that allows the engine to do its job without straining. 

I'm very impressed with your approach to the event, Matt.  Hope someday we get to spend some time together.

Ted Fancher

Hi Ted,

I'm going to be starting out with the setup Windy uses on his RO-Jett 76, and he sent me 5 or so Rev-Up 14-5s, and according to him, I won't ever need to fiddle with anything in terms of having a better motor run.

This is our first motor bigger than a Super Tigre 60, and it's a 76, so we don't have any props any bigger than a 13-6 unless it's a prop for RC planes.  I want to get some other props to try out, but I just don't have enough money to buy anything besides my AMA and PAMPA renewal and fiberglass wheelpants.

Are you going to the NATS next year Ted?  I also would like to meet you in person and spend some time around you and the other guys on the west coast.

[Brett Buck]

I'm going to be starting out with the setup Windy uses on his RO-Jett 76, and he sent me 5 or so Rev-Up 14-5s, and according to him, I won't ever need to fiddle with anything in terms of having a better motor run.

  Hmm, maybe it will be OK, but I haven't seen a lot of people have much success with those, including Windy. Could be he got it worked out since the last time I saw it, though. I sure don't like the idea of the giant props, Rabe Rudder or not. One of the keys to our success (and by our, I mean Ted, David, and I, and Paul when he was running the VF) has been running about as small a prop as we can get away with. There's nothing unusual about a Trivial Pursuit that makes it less suitable for larger props, but there's a very good chance that the kind of corner it is known for will be lost.

      The underlying principle of the Rabe Rudder is sound. But for goodness sake, make sure you can defeat the rudder motion, and just lock it in place. In fact, lock it in place *dead straight ahead*. Do all your trimming, all the way to the end. Then and only then add rudder motion, in very small amounts, and just enough to take out any residual untrimmable yaw motion. The required motion will be *tiny*. Most people who use them fixate on the rudder, and almost universally end up with far, far too much motion.


    Brett

[Randy Powell]

I've had a couple of planes I used a Rabe Rudder on, but it was usually in response to a trim problem I couldn't fix any other way. My buddy Pat Johnston uses one on every plane, but I couldn't say it he really needs it.

[jim ivey]

So ya flew th wings off it! I always thought that was just a saying.  Seriously looks like that was a beautiful airplane Ted, a shame you lost it.    jim I