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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Joe Yau on October 07, 2010, 08:38:15 AM
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Just wondering if the plans are available for Ted Fancher's WC plane that was used in 04?
Thanks in advance.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/JOE91SC/2348935871_6c5fd12d3f_bb-1.jpg)
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The picture is of the Special Edition. That's a pretty recent Trivial Pursuit derivative.
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The picture is of the Special Edition. That's a pretty recent Trivial Pursuit derivative.
Hmmm, are you sure? Would you have a pic of the SE version?
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I saw it live at the NW Regionals a couple of years ago. You can see the scoop on the bottom that says "Special Edition" along the side. I don't have a pic off hand, but I'll look.
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Randy is correct.
I dont know specifics to design date.. however - it was build for the 2004 World champs
You can clearly see the " special edition " underneath.
I heard rumors its no longer flying due to a glue issue. Again not confirmed by anyone.
This photo was taken with the " larger wheels " compared to the one below.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/tytk4.jpg)
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Thanks PJ, Randy. H^^ I just zoomed in on the rudder in the top pic, and I could see "Special Edition" right on it. duh HB~> much appreciated for posting the pic. I guess I should edit the first post a bit.
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The wing folded on Ted at, I think, the Nationals. To bad, too. It was a ridiculously cool plane.
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I beleive RSM kits this model:
http://www.rsmdistribution.com/kit-detail.php?pn=trivs&src=kits-modern.php
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Yeah Randy as I said " I heard rumors its no longer flying due to a glue issue "
Isnt a wing fold due in part to " glue issue" LL~ ( the special edition fancher flop? )
A crashed model is never a laughing matter - could be worse at least it "ended" in the line of duty and not in the line of a reversing car. S?P LL~
That was certainly one of the coolest looking ships Ive seen - I got to inspect it in pretty close detail a few yrs ago and the cowl detail and general detail was superb without a doubt. ( and I told ted that ! )
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I am sure I've seen an account of the various Trivial Pursuit developments (by Ted Fancher himself?). Right now, all I could find was on a few versions of Dave Fitzgerald's "Star Gazer":
http://eduardo.affonso.pagesperso-orange.fr/stargazer-e.htm
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I have video of Ted flying this plane. This is really an expert class ship,(Duh like yeah). Seems like you really have to bring it down fast after engine out.
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I just checked the RSM web-site, the plans are listed in their catalogue for the Trivial Pursuit "Special Edition" for $20. #^
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Hi Joe,
Here you have some other pics of this fantastic ship. A work of art by any standards...
A real shame this plane is no longer flying... :'(
Regards,
Claudio.
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The wing folded on Ted at, I think, the Nationals. To bad, too. It was a ridiculously cool plane.
Thats unfortunate..
I beleive RSM kits this model:
http://www.rsmdistribution.com/kit-detail.php?pn=trivs&src=kits-modern.php
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the link. H^^
Yeah Randy as I said " I heard rumors its no longer flying due to a glue issue "
Isnt a wing fold due in part to " glue issue" LL~ ( the special edition fancher flop? )
A crashed model is never a laughing matter - could be worse at least it "ended" in the line of duty and not in the line of a reversing car. S?P LL~
That was certainly one of the coolest looking ships Ive seen - I got to inspect it in pretty close detail a few yrs ago and the cowl detail and general detail was superb without a doubt. ( and I told ted that ! )
I guess it is either the glue or the wood..? :o yeah, I really like the lines on this ship.
I am sure I've seen an account of the various Trivial Pursuit developments (by Ted Fancher himself?). Right now, all I could find was on a few versions of Dave Fitzgerald's "Star Gazer":
http://eduardo.affonso.pagesperso-orange.fr/stargazer-e.htm
Nice link! Thanks. H^^
I have video of Ted flying this plane. This is really an expert class ship,(Duh like yeah). Seems like you really have to bring it down fast after engine out.
Could you uploaded the video to youtube? :) I would sure like to see it.. #^
I just checked the RSM web-site, the plans are listed in their catalogue for the Trivial Pursuit "Special Edition" for $20. #^
Thats great! thanks. H^^
Hi Joe,
Here you have some other pics of this fantastic ship. A work of art by any standards...
A real shame this plane is no longer flying... :'(
Regards,
Claudio.
Yes, indeed its a work of art! Thanks for the nice pics.. H^^
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I have video of Ted flying this plane. This is really an expert class ship,(Duh like yeah). Seems like you really have to bring it down fast after engine out.
I am not sure what you mean. A good landing happens at just about level flight speed. This airplane landed like any other, nothing unusual about it in that regard.
Brett
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Depending on plane and circumstances a plane will land fast. The last flight on my P-39 at VSC last year was so fast it even surprised me. Rolled for over a lap before stopping. Of course I was well over the 8 minute mark by a bunch. H^^
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MAYBE...
He was just looking at the sharpness of the tailplane - assuming that would yeld a fast landing entry.
Possibly he was saying ted lands poorly and enters too hot ! LL~
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How would we know without seeing the score sheets of all the different judges. H^^
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Thanks All for the replies.. H^^
I just borrowed a set of the original 1994 Trivial Pursuit plans from Keith Varley (just picked up yesterday), It seems that it look quite similar to the SE version. Would anyone know what are the changes between the two versions?
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Get in touch with Teddy Boy his self. He won't bite your head off and is reality a very congenial guy. H^^
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I think the big differences are in the stab and elevator configurations: flat or airfoiled. Maybe also the exact location of the tailplane?
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I think the big differences are in the stab and elevator configurations: flat or airfoiled. Maybe also the exact location of the tailplane?
The stab on the Special Edition was raised about a 3/4". Ted remarked that it grooved much better than the previous versions.
I would like to add that the paint scheme on the Special Edition was the classiest,most elegant schemes I have ever seen.
I was able to sweet-talk Ted out of the templates he used for painting this work of art. I plan to replicate that baby one of these days.
Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
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MAYBE...
He was just looking at the sharpness of the tailplane - assuming that would yeld a fast landing entry.
What in the world does a sharp stab LE have to do with landing speed?
Possibly he was saying ted lands poorly and enters too hot ! LL~
HMMM, how'd you do the last time you guys went head-to-head?
Brett
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Good lord man ( brett... ) doesnt anyone understand sarcasm. I will spell it out.
<quote> What in the world does a sharp stab LE have to do with landing speed?
There was a comment made about landing speed and it seemed so ludicrous ( Adjective: So foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing )
I felt it required further ludicrousness as an explanation! ~>
Stab dimensions have ZERO to do with landing speed - stab thickness or raidii - has ZERO to do with landing speed the colour of the model has ZERO to do with landing speed - I was making a poke at how silly I thought ( and I thought others might think also ) the comment was in the 1st place.
Quote from: PJ Rowland on October 08, 2010, 10:30:17 PM
Possibly he was saying ted lands poorly and enters too hot
-- God lord again... Didnt you see the little guy hitting the floor with laughter ( this would indicate I beleived my comments were also made in jest. - To put it BLUNTLY - Ted is a great flier - noone thinks the model lands fast - noone ( myself included ) think he lands poorly or lands HOT..
I was also trying to think of reasons that were ludicrous ( Adjective: So foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing )
I felt it required further ludicrousness as an explanation! ~>
FAIR ENOUGH - possibly online humor was lost in translation.
<quote>
HMMM, how'd you do the last time you guys went head-to-head?
Does this really require an answer? I dont care much for this style of conversation -
I will however assume ( 1. Suppose to be the case, without proof: ) that this was a "buckanized" attempt at humor and respond with.
Touche'
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The inital thread was askign for information about a design.
I provided a photo and some information to correctly put the person on the right path.
So the answer was given promptly and without sarcasm.
It then drifted toward comments about its flying ,which i felt was able to be made fun of - At no stage did I feel the person who OWNED the model would be offended by such comments as they were intended.
I also made a joke about how it died in the line of duty and not in the line of a car reversing! Which noone found offensive.
If we stop making jokes and having a laugh we loose part of the reason we all come together - to have FUN, at every level be it someone trying to build their first trainer or a 2006 Walker cup winner .
We all want to have fun and smile sometimes. y1
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Hi all,
The Special Edition was a pretty good looking airplane and had the potential to be a very competitive one had it not succumbed to the stunt devils at any early age. It did, in fact, meet its demise due to a poorly glued main spar joiner/bellcrank mount. The failure occurred during the vertical eight during a practice flight in very high winds prior to qualifying rounds at the 2004 Nats which followed immediately after the '04 World Champs at Muncie. The failure was made almost certain by virtue of foolish trim decisions made under time pressure with an airplane that hadn't really had the trim refined prior to its debut. Maybe more about that sometime when it isn't so close to midnight here in Foster City.
The airplane was a refinement of the original Trivial Pursuit that cured a few of the problem associated with the original design, mostly associated with the hunting difficulties David addressed in the article shared earlier in this thread. The major differences (from a performance perspective) were raising the stab/elevator 1/2 inch higher than the original design as published in Stunt News. In addition, as a result of David's tail tests I returned to the airfoiled stab/elevator along with a very sharp leading edge. The result was an airplane that was a "rock" in level and inverted flight. I also added a little additional depth in the fuse including the pipe cowling (more or less a shallow P-51 style "belly blister") and some additional depth from nose to tail in the fuse crutch. I wanted to get a bit of that Brett Buck "Three billboards in close formation" look to the profile (juuuuust kidding Brett...it's really only two billboards in a modified formation).
The modifications must have been successful because even Shareen noticed that the thing actually flew straight and level when it was supposed to be flying...well...uh...straight and level. I'm reasonably convinced the higher stab/elevator was the fix as the wing is very thick and "traditional" spacing between the wing centerline and the stab centerline probably caused some interference in the wing downwash on the tail that made the original designs less than "fall asleep at the handle" capable in inverted flight. I feel compelled to say, however, that those earlier versions had very enviable records in major competition despite the problems the raised tail successfully addressed.
The RSM kit is pretty much an exact copy of the original SE with only some modifications to structure to eliminate the assembly problems I had with the original that resulted in the bad spar joint.
As David suggested, it is a very sound design and does have a certain panache of its own in the appearance department.
Thanks to every one for their kind thoughts.
No sweat PJ. I understood the tongue in cheek references.
Ted,
p.s. re the comments about a "fast landing". I wouldn't be surprised if the video that raised the comment wasn't filmed during a flight in high winds. I (and most of the best competitors) work very hard to control where we touch down in relation to the wind under such conditions. Many (myself included) will fly a shut off loop right down wind and descend at a high rate and speed to touch down on the main gear about three quarters of a lap later so the airplane is traveling downwind and is not likely to bounce up into the wind resulting in a big balloon and loss of landing points. The airplane had no unusual approach and landing characteristics and could easily glide for the one lap required by FAI rules under most conditions.
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<quote>
No sweat PJ. I understood the tongue in cheek references.
*nods*
<quote>
I wanted to get a bit of that Brett Buck "Three billboards in close formation" look to the profile (juuuuust kidding Brett...it's really only two billboards in a modified formation).
Careful.. you might get a serve.. #^
<quote> The modifications must have been successful because even Shareen noticed that the thing....
Is that why it lasted until the Nats ? LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Tell me Ted, what did you build as a replacement ? I have not seen any photo's of anything new.
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Ted...
Lurking this morn. on FlessieFluggglie' I see that your beautiful skyart still has many advocates around the world...and that has always included this old kite-koot.
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I wanted to get a bit of that Brett Buck "Three billboards in close formation" look to the profile (juuuuust kidding Brett...it's really only two billboards in a modified formation).
PJ quote: "Careful.. you might get a serve.."
Not to worry, I'm the Jimmy Conners of stunt when it comes to returning serve! Especially with Brett. The "billboard" jibe has been around so long between us that it's almost as apocryphal as smushed Noblers and Pond Scum paint jobs. Don't worry, I'll poke him around a little on your behalf. He's a good man to have in your corner.
PJ quote: "Tell me Ted, what did you build as a replacement ? I have not seen any photo's of anything new."
Sorry, PJ. Nothing much has happened in my building department for several years. Had a bit of a burnout and got interested in some other stuff that took up the time I used to spend on the airplanes. That plus a year long home expansion remodel that resulted in my garage housed "shop" turning into our living room, kitchen, dining room and entertainment center sort of put the brakes on any thoughts of building. I've got a highly modified Gypsy (was going to be stock for Classic until I realized how good the wing would work with some smaller flaps on it) that has the wing, tail (enlarged to modern proportions) and (stretched) fuselage box all built but the parts are "aging" on top of the Murphy bed in my den. I do hope to get that thing finished up sometime in the not too distant future.
My competitive drive has been pretty much on the back burner for a number of years and, frankly, the WC gig in 2004 was a pleasant surprise for me. Stunt has well and truly morphed from obsession to hobby...not necessarily a bad thing. Still love the people and would rather win than lose at a contest but working hard to achieve such an outcome doesn't fit into my list of priorities.
Ted
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<quote>
Don't worry, I'll poke him around a little on your behalf. He's a good man to have in your corner.
Yeah brett has always been a great source of information; alas i dont know him well enough to "put in my corner" but its nice hes in someone corner !hehe
<quote>
Sorry, PJ. Nothing much has happened in my building department for several years. Had a bit of a burnout and got interested in some other stuff that took up the time I used to spend on the airplanes
I 100% COMPLETELY understand how this can occur. After the 2004 worlds I also had that feeling a sense of - ive done this for so long. ( i was 8 yrs old when i went to my 1st nats! ) I think it also has something to do with loosing a model - I lost a model shortly after the worlds and had a very empty burnt out feeling. Thats one of the main reasons we went ahead and built the Lancaster stunter, to try to spark some personal intertest again. It worked for a short period of time - eventually all the frustration, effort and personal time takes a toll.
I took from 2006 until this year 2010 off from compeditive stunt and focused on renovating a house which Is my 1st and Ive Just finished. Also playing alot of golf. I took to golf with the same compeditive spirit ( i guess its just IN you.. ) I now have my official handicap down to 4 . Now Ive got a fresh interst in Stunt - what I realised I loved about it wasnt the flying or being judged its about meeting great guys, talking with people, sharing idea's practicing to push yourself to be as good as you can be, spending time with your family ( My father in my case he also plays golf and flies occasionally. )
Will you be flyiung in classic at the US nats? I am bringing a model over for that also.. ( just annoyed its before aerobatics - down under we run it after.. )
Im really looking forward to coming and competing next year but I completly understand - a break is whats needed, you never know once you start building the interst will come back - But im only going on 20 years of stunt flying.. not 40 so im in a midlife stunt crisis ??
Id love to knwo if other top stunt guys have burnout..?? Billboard buck??
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Does anyone have a picture of the first Trivial Pursuit?
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Randy you asked so here it is,Ted's TP
Jose Modesto
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Does anyone know what brand of wheels Ted used on this plane-the 2004 version? Look interesting. ???
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Hi John,
Wish I could help re those cool looking wheels. Somebody actually gave them to me before I left for the Muncie WCs. I put them on but, for some reason, couldn't land worth a darn with them and went back to the Dave Brown ultralights with tread that show in some of the other pictures. They weren't in a package when I got them so I can't help re a manufacturer, etc.
Ted
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For some reason, I thought there was a TP prior to the beige bomber. Guess not. Maybe I'm thinking of a 'tation.
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Randy you asked so here it is,Ted's TP
Jose Modesto
Complete with Playboy "miniature" magazine on the dash!
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Hello, attached photos of the Special Edition on the World Cup USA 2004.
This model is one of my favorites because of its beauty.
I hope that Ted will soon delight us with another work of art like this.
Ted, when do new project Trivial?
A greeting from Spain
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Jose,
Many thanks for posting the great pictures of the Special Edition. I especially like the one with the 3/4 view of the nose which makes it look very aggressive...probably due to the lens that distorted the perspective a bit. I've made the picture of me fueling the ship the desktop background for my computer at work (NASA-ASRS).
Ted Fancher
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Jose,
Many thanks for posting the great pictures of the Special Edition. I especially like the one with the 3/4 view of the nose which makes it look very aggressive...probably due to the lens that distorted the perspective a bit. I've made the picture of me fueling the ship the desktop background for my computer at work (NASA-ASRS).
Ted Fancher
HI Ted,
Which one was the one that I launched a practice flight for you at the '96 NATS? I believe it had a "Playboy" issue on the dashboard. ;D
Bill
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The wheels look like the ones designed for the light-weight electric planes. Really beautiful plane, shame it is gone. H^^
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SUCCESS!!!!!!
I finally found it after months of searching every wheel manufacture that ever existed I found the wheels that were used. ( or so they seem to be )
(http://i51.tinypic.com/291nlo4.jpg)
Dubro Products
Micro Sport
DU-BRO 2.50in Micro Sport Wheels (1 pair per card)
Available usually
ships out in 2 days
These open spoke wheels will add a sporty look to your model. They have been designed with indoor and park flyer models in mind.
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Hello Ted,
This is a S.E. from RSM kit. I build this plane to my friend Rogério Alves (Team Member from Brazil to W.C 2010 in Hungria). Very nice model and very good RSM kit.
Best Regards,
Luiz Dutra -Mococa/São Paulo- Brasil.
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Very nice, good job. ;D ;D
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Nice looking plane, the RSM kit is a good one, it even comes with the belly-scoop pipe enclosure, I have one, going to get to it one of these days. y1
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To answer the original question, I'm not sure where to get plans, but I imagine Eric Rule at RSM has them. I know that Pat Johnston drew some up for him.
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HI Ted,
Which one was the one that I launched a practice flight for you at the '96 NATS? I believe it had a "Playboy" issue on the dashboard. ;D
Bill
Hi Bill,
That would have been the original tan with red and orange trim Trivial Pursuit.
Ted
p.s. It was the Dolly Parton issue...it would barely fit under the canopy!
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SUCCESS!!!!!!
I finally found it after months of searching every wheel manufacture that ever existed I found the wheels that were used. ( or so they seem to be )
(http://i51.tinypic.com/291nlo4.jpg)
Dubro Products
Micro Sport
DU-BRO 2.50in Micro Sport Wheels (1 pair per card)
Available usually
ships out in 2 days
These open spoke wheels will add a sporty look to your model. They have been designed with indoor and park flyer models in mind.
P.J.,
That sure looks like the ones. Again, someone was nice enough to give them to me and, like pretty much everybody, I thought they'd really look cool on an airplane. I"m sure they had nothing to do with the problem but I couldn't grease on a landing to save my soul with them so I went back to the treaded Dave Brown (I believe) skinny tires.
Ted
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Hello Ted,
This is a S.E. from RSM kit. I build this plane to my friend Rogério Alves (Team Member from Brazil to W.C 2010 in Hungria). Very nice model and very good RSM kit.
Best Regards,
Luiz Dutra -Mococa/São Paulo- Brasil.
Beautiful job, Luiz. Thanks for sharing it with us. I had a couple of very nice chats with Rogerio in Gyula. Brazil, as usual, had a fine team of stunt fliers who all flew admirably.
Ted
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Hi Guys,
I thought the interest in the Special Edition was great enough that I'd try to figure out how to post some pix of the more unusual parts of the project. If these come out OK and you're interested in more just say so and I'll post some more.
This one is of the pipe tunnel outlet about ready for finishing. I'll make another post with pix after it was painted. Still learning the restrictions on posting pix.
Ted
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Here are two more of the finished outlets and the entire pipe cowl.
Ted
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Finally, here is a sort of fuzzy shot looking back into the pipe tunnel from the front (the aft end of the tank compartment with the engine cowl removed.
Ted
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Well, I'm getting carried away now and I really should be packing the van for the Golden State Stunt Champs but, what the heck....
Here are a couple pix of the engine cowl before and after paint (by the way, all the painted shots were made before color sanding and clear coat if they look a little grainy to you).
It might be of interest to know how all of the inlet and outlet "blisters" were made. These are the tubular growths that provide the shape for the extended outlets that go beyond the plane of the fuse itself.
These were made by taking a foot long piece of brass tubing of the desired diameter and giving it several coats of a wax mold release to insure that epoxy wouldn't adhere to it. I then made a sandwich of light weight carbon veil on both sides of a sheet of A grain 1/32" balsa that had been soaked in ammonia and water (then patted dry with a paper towel to remove surface moisture). 30 minute epoxy was the "mayonnaise" holding the sandwich together. The sandwich was carefully cut to size so that when wrapped around the tubing there would be a very small gap ~ 1/64-1/32" to insure they wouldn't overlap. The length of each sandwich was around 10-11" or so so it provided the raw material for several "blisters". The sandwich was than wrapped around the waxed brass tube and held in place with saran wrap (to protect the) ACE bandage which then secured the sandwich to the tube.
After the sandwich was cured it was unwrapped, popped carefully off of the brass tube and then the seam was glued together with CA. It was now a foot long tube that weighed almost nothing but was very strong.
Wherever I wanted a "blister" I would cut out a hole using sharpened brass tubing (slightly smaller than the sandwich tube) at the approximate angle I wanted the "blister" material to exit the cowl. The size and angle of the cutout was then fine tuned using sandpaper on dowels/brass tubing. A chunk of sandwich was then cut off with approximations of the final angles and glued in the holes. A little putty and sandpaper finalized the shape. The final product ends up making a boring hole in a cowling a lot more exciting!
The first pic is of the cooling air inlet for the hot section of the tuned pipe on the inside of the engine cowl prior to finishing. The second pic is the engine cowl and the inlet can be seen in the aft half of the left side of the cowl. The outlets in the pipe tunnel in the previous pix and on the top of the fuse behind the engine are additional examples of the technique.
Ted
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That is fine work, Ted. I'm always amazed by your creativity and inventiveness. I really liked that plane a lot. It inspired me to buy the RSM full kit (that is still sitting under my bench). But your work has found it's way into my own stuff more times than I can remember.
Love the pictures.
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Some awesome stuff, Teddy!
Your stuff sometimes reminds me of F-1 work. ;D The CF stuff they do and wild shapes are reminiscent of your cowls!
(didn't get close enough to read the Playboy issue !! LL~ LL~ )
Mongo
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Simply awesome pics Ted!! I just hope mine will turn out half as good as yours when I finish mine. Now with the cheek cowls, did you add them while you were still carving the cowling? It's another part of the construction I'm wondering about.
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Spectacular and wonderful work. Ted you should build another model to delight us with your artwork.
Thank you for teaching.
Greetings
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The prettiest Non-Fancher built Trivial Pursuit I've seen is Claudio Chacon's Voodoo. Has the look of a Ted built unit.
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Always enjoy seeing models in veil.
How did you do the open bays?
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The prettiest Non-Fancher built Trivial Pursuit I've seen is Claudio Chacon's Voodoo. Has the look of a Ted built unit.
Well Randy, that's quite a compliment! Thank you VERY much! The downside of your kind words is that they unleashed my compulsive necessity for posting pictures in here...so....I CAN'T REFRAINNNNN HB~>
So guys....Randy is the culprit! ;D
Mr. Fancher, I salute you!
Kindest regards to you all,
Claudio H^^
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Claudio, you, Randy P., Ted F., Windy U. and all the rest just blow my mind with the work you do on your planes. I keep trying with each one I do now to have a little more patience when finishing, but then I get the itch to get it in the air. Thanks for the fantastic photos. H^^
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Simply awesome pics Ted!! I just hope mine will turn out half as good as yours when I finish mine. Now with the cheek cowls, did you add them while you were still carving the cowling? It's another part of the construction I'm wondering about.
Hi Matt,
Thanx!
I always "shape" the entire fuselage as a single unit. Yes, including the little "cheeks" on the cowl. Both of the cowlings and all of their holddown nuts and bolts are installed with everything unshaped. The upper blocks and turtle decks and aft lower fuselage blocks are "tack glued in place (use model airplane cement like Sig, and place a dot of glue every three or so inches. Just enough to adhere and still be able to pop the blocks off afterward). I also like to install the engine with the spinner attached (this will take some work on the inside of the cowl to get it to fit which is just fine because otherwise you may be tempted to "over shape" the outside and then find out the engine won't fit in it!).
The little cheeks are glued in place on the cowl (and some of the aft portion on the main fuselage) again using Sig cement (try not to use CAs or epoxy on joint that will have to be shaped as they make the balsa hard and difficult to fair with the balsa not so affected).
Now you simply carve and plane and sand to your heart's delight until everything ugly is removed and nothing but "pretty" is left. Then pop off the tack glued parts and unbolt the cowlings and proceed with assembling the wing and tail the the fuse box that has already been shaped. You'll find this is about 1000 times easier than trying to shape the fuselage with the wing and tail already glued in place.
Hope this helps. I wish I had some pix that show the cheeks clearly but all of my (limited) pix of the cowl are already in primer.
Ted
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Always enjoy seeing models in veil.
How did you do the open bays?
P.J. Attached is a pic that shows the silkspan covering over only the open bays and the veil over pretty much every thing else.
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Always enjoy seeing models in veil.
How did you do the open bays?
Always enjoy seeing models in veil.
How did you do the open bays?
P.J. Attached is a pic that shows the silkspan covering over only the open bays and the veil over pretty much every thing else. I DO NOT SUGGEST ANYONE DO THIS. IT WAS PART OF THE REASON MY WING FAILED AT THE FUSE IN THE HIGH WINDS. This is the only airplane on which I've not covered the entire wing from tip to tip with silkspan with an overlap in the middle of the wing. This is also the only wing I've ever had fail under stress.
The reason I've covered wings that way is to insure uniform resistance to shear from tip to tip. silkspan provides a surprising amount of strength to a wing (about all such strength an I- beam has other than the spar). I figured the veil would do the same job and it did cover the entire sheeted parts of the wing. I think the difference in the characteristics of the very rigid veil and the more giving and flexible silkspan allowed the fuse to act like a big cleaver over a structurally vulnerable rigid surface. In the future I would still use the veil but would recover the entire wing with silkspan as well to provide that resistance.
Of course, I would probably do a better job of insuring a good glue joint between the wing spars and the spar joiners...something that wasn't achieved on the outer wing lower spar joiner.
Ted
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gday ted,.
So you didnt re-cover the open bays with veil after the silkspan?
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gday ted,.
So you didnt re-cover the open bays with veil after the silkspan?
No, I didn't, P.J. That never occurred to me. I used the veil as a substitute for the Silkspan over the balsa because it takes less dope to fill and finish and I thought I'd save weight by doing so. In retrospect I believe that to have been a mistake as it is more brittle and subject to fracture than the silkspan. I stress, however, that I've no particular expertise in area and this is only an opinion.
Ted
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I think Tom Morris shows covering the wings of his planes by over lapping poly span over the center section. Some guys worry that hurts the gluing surface of the wing to the fuselage. But, I myself have not had that problem. Also I got away from the carbon fiber veil on the solid surfaces. About 6 to 8 coats of clear on the solid surfaces makes putting the poly span on easier and fills better. H^^
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Well Randy, that's quite a compliment! Thank you VERY much! The downside of your kind words is that they unleashed my compulsive necessity for posting pictures in here...so....I CAN'T REFRAINNNNN HB~>
So guys....Randy is the culprit! ;D
Mr. Fancher, I salute you!
Kindest regards to you all,
Claudio H^^
Claudio,
Beautiful work. I especially like the "layered" look of the pipe tunnel. The tunnel appearing to be a separate part rather than faired into the basic fuselage. Looks very "functional" while fulfilling its aesthetic function. A nice variation on the belly scoop!
YOu can build my planes any time.
Ted Fancher
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Claudio,
Beautiful work. I especially like the "layered" look of the pipe tunnel. The tunnel appearing to be a separate part rather than faired into the basic fuselage. Looks very "functional" while fulfilling its aesthetic function. A nice variation on the belly scoop!
YOu can build my planes any time.
Ted Fancher
Hello Ted,
Yes indeed, the pipe tunnel "hood" is a separate part from the rest of the fuse. I had to build it that way because
this is a take apart plane. And, besides the TEN (!) 2-56 socket head screws that I have to remove to detach that pipe cowl at every flying session, yes, it is functional... ;D
Anyway, the Voodoo is still giving me service since 2003. More than 600 flights and counting...
By the way, I'm sure that everyone here in stuntland would love to see another of your masterpieces airborne again...
Indulge us!
Many Thanks and best regards,
Claudio.
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Hey, anyone who can land a DC-8 (And that's one of the planes that Ted flew for United for a long time...) can land anything I'm told... :-*
Bob Hunt
Bob,
That's right. A DC-8 is hard to land softly. Only us Supermen can do it! 8) 8) 8)
Ted
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Ted, by Sig cement, I suppose you are referring to "Sig-Ment", rather than their alphatic glue, am I right here? Thanks, John Lindberg. Got any pics on how you bolt the pipe enclosure on the plane? Very interesting! ~>
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Ted, by Sig cement, I suppose you are referring to "Sig-Ment", rather than their alphatic glue, am I right here? Thanks, John Lindberg. Got any pics on how you bolt the pipe enclosure on the plane? Very interesting! ~>
Absolutely John. I should have made that distinction. Plain old fashioned model airplane cement (although I don't recommend Ambroid for external seams unless the finish will be something other than dope).
I'd love to take some pix of the pipe securing mechanisms but, alas, the subject matter was buried somewhere in a Muncie sanitation facility. The system was very much like Claudio's except I believe I only used eight 2-57 bolts and "T-nuts".
Ted
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I could not land a DC8 without using both hands on the yoke....I'm referring to the -71s. I was told that enough engineers left Boeing and went to Douglas so that by the time the DC10 came out, it was easy to handle, even little old ladies could one-hand it. But Boeing, under Howard's leadership, got it right with the Triple Seven, which required only a pinkie and the pointer finger of the left hand...much the way some fellows fly a stunt ship....
What in the world has this got to do with carving a cowling??
dg :)
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A dumpster at Food Lion got the remains of the well flown Magnum after a puff of wind blew the stooge line over the down elevator cable upon release. I think CA is impossible to sand, I'll try some Sig-ment, Sig has good stuff. D>K
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I could not land a DC8 without using both hands on the yoke....I'm referring to the -71s. I was told that enough engineers left Boeing and went to Douglas so that by the time the DC10 came out, it was easy to handle, even little old ladies could one-hand it. But Boeing, under Howard's leadership, got it right with the Triple Seven, which required only a pinkie and the pointer finger of the left hand...much the way some fellows fly a stunt ship....
What in the world has this got to do with carving a cowling??
dg :)
Hi Cap'n Dale.
Hardest part of flying the -71 was getting the darn thing to descend with those big CFM engines at idle! Had to descend from altitude early because at 250K below 10,000 it wanted to stay airborne for miles further than the same airplane with the JT-8s (the DC8-61s). Reversing the inboards to descend/slow (no flight spoilers on the DC-8s) was like hitting a brick wall. You were required to seat the flight attendants and tell people what was going to happen. As a result, we just didn't do it!
Anyhow...
A canopy is almost a cowling so I thought I'd post a couple of pictures of the S.E. canopy and the Ace Pilot therein. The culinary delights are a pepperoni pizza (with a slice missing and the pizza cutter on hand for the next slice) and a tall cool one to wash it down with. For reading material we've got a Chronicle (from crazy S.F.) and a life magazine. Feels just like being back in the cockpit at UAL, right!
Happy Holloween.
Ted
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Here's the other picture of the front view of the canopy. Couldn't get them both in the first post.
Ted
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And, finally, just for the heck of it here's one last picture of the ship in veil before filleting and finishing. Thanks to everyone for your interest.
Ted
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Hi Ted,
The air scoops and the fins on the bottom just seem to add a whole bunch of character to the already great looking airplane! Here's where I'm at now with mine, I hope you guys approve after seeing Class A workmanship H^^
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I apologise for the torpedoing of such a great thread on such a great design, but I just cannot avoid a trip down memory lane when it comes to large tubes with silvery wings.
Better keep those wings level landing the 71 in a x-wind....oops, there I go again! Sorry.
dg :)
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Maybe you have already mentioned this, Ted, but what did you use for paint? Thanks for the pics, looking forward to seeing more of Matt's building pics. D>K
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Ted,
It's a shame that this plane is no longer around. I know it's a pain, but you really should build another. 8)
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I apologise for the torpedoing of such a great thread on such a great design, but I just cannot avoid a trip down memory lane when it comes to large tubes with silvery wings.
Better keep those wings level landing the 71 in a x-wind....oops, there I go again! Sorry.
dg :)
Naw, you don't have to worry, Dale. The nice thing about the CFMs was that they made great tip skids! n~
Ted
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Maybe you have already mentioned this, Ted, but what did you use for paint? Thanks for the pics, looking forward to seeing more of Matt's building pics. D>K
Hi John,
It was all dope. Mostly Brodak as I recall. The gold was clear with gold powder added to it. The R, W and B were pretty much stock colors, I believe although I might have added black to the blue since I'm not a fan of "bright" blues.
Ted
p.s. Speaking of paint. I've often referred to the "pond scum" Trivial Pursuit--so named by Bob Hunt for reasons known only to the Bronze Dog man his own self. This was initially the R, W and B Great Expectations that I took to the WCs in Shanghai in 1994. Strangely, I've got no pictures that I can recall of that airplane in that paint job. It also won the 1995 Nats in that color scheme. I later refinished it in the infamous pond scum colors and it won the nats again--IIRC--in 2000. Here's a picture of the Pond Scum version.
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I loved the bug plane. Brilliant inverted landing, by the way.
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Ted,
When I asked Steve Wooley what shade of green he called his original Argus, he called it Pond Slime green, so you're in great company - and well deservedly so.
Blessings,
Will
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Hi Ted,
The air scoops and the fins on the bottom just seem to add a whole bunch of character to the already great looking airplane! Here's where I'm at now with mine, I hope you guys approve after seeing Class A workmanship H^^
Matt, looking at that picture makes me think you have nothing to be ashamed of in construction. Seems like it has been a while since I seen a post from you. Are you getting ready for the team trials? H^^
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I have the video, done by Bruce Hunt, of the "pond scum" version landing upside down at the Albany contest. Later it was discovered that a bee had landed in the venturi and choked off the engine. Probably worse than having one crawl inside your unattended pop can and the taking a drink from the can, said bee exacting revenge for disturbing it's sugar craving by stinging the mouth of the true owner of the can of pop. Just looking for a hand-out, I guess. HB~>
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Matt, looking at that picture makes me think you have nothing to be ashamed of in construction. Seems like it has been a while since I seen a post from you. Are you getting ready for the team trials? H^^
DOC, I don't have anything to be ashamed of anything either in the construction so far. I'm waiting until I get further into the construction to post pics of the plane. I'm not sure about the Team Trials even though I still REALLY want to attend, because I might be too old to fly in Junior during the WC. I'll be 17 during the Team Trials, and depending on the dates of the worlds, I could be 17 or 18, and I'm not sure what the maximum age is in FAI for junior. But we are going to be going to the NATS, and am getting ready for that.
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I have the video, done by Bruce Hunt, of the "pond scum" version landing upside down at the Albany contest. Later it was discovered that a bee had landed in the venturi and choked off the engine. Probably worse than having one crawl inside your unattended pop can and the taking a drink from the can, said bee exacting revenge for disturbing it's sugar craving by stinging the mouth of the true owner of the can of pop. Just looking for a hand-out, I guess. HB~>
Wow, John. I didn't know there was a video of the "Great Bee in the Bonnet" landing. Can it be posted on U-tube? I'd love to see it. It all happened so fast for me I didn't really have time to "admire" the beauty of it all! 8) 8) 8)
Ted
Can't help myself. Here's a pic of my old "Temptation" whose paint job was the inspiration for the Special Edition. This airplane met its demise the morning of the Walker Flyoff at one Nats or another. First needle flight was a bit fast so I refueled, cranked it up and richened the mixture a bit. Took off and the speed seemed perfect. Pulled up into the wingover and about the time it got vertical the engine quit like someone flipped a light switch. Crashed straight in putting a hole in the concrete with the spinner nut. The three blade CF prop was good as new. Coujldn't say the same for the plane it was attached to. Alas :-[ :-[ :-[ Probably needless to say, the gentleman checking it out is the Bear himself; Bob Gieseke.
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Ted,
When I asked Steve Wooley what shade of green he called his original Argus, he called it Pond Slime green, so you're in great company - and well deservedly so.
Blessings,
Will
Will,
I'll take that comparison any day! Pretty classy company.
Ted
Picture here is for Matt. I found some other construction pix in a different folder. I think this will show you how the cowl was assembled and shaped. Hope it helps. Your wing looks awesome, by the way.
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How great you are Ted, these photographs demonstrate the artist you are, continue to teach, thanks. H^^ H^^
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Pond scum is actually Green tho. So i I never understood that reference. !
Its more of a Spider bite Puss purple.. !!!
(http://i55.tinypic.com/xktbnq.jpg)
y1
HHAHA
Ted about your cowl, the photo doesnt show clearly how you shaped it, As in, I can see blocks but it simply looks like you spent alot of time getting the shape of the inlet just so?
Perhaps a short Article about the cowl - how its fitted, how it was shaped would benifit?
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Ted
This was initially the R, W and B Great Expectations that I took to the WCs in Shanghai in 1994. Strangely, I've got no pictures that I can recall of that airplane in that paint job. It also won the 1995 Nats in that color scheme.
I leave a photo of Great Expectations and Trivial P. original. VD~ VD~
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Will,
I'll take that comparison any day! Pretty classy company.
Ted
Picture here is for Matt. I found some other construction pix in a different folder. I think this will show you how the cowl was assembled and shaped. Hope it helps. Your wing looks awesome, by the way.
Thanks Ted! All these pictures, and these little notes about building the Trivial Pursuit have really helped! I'm hoping to get some more work done on it tomorrow!
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New question for you guys. I'm going to be using a 14" prop on the RO-Jett 76 I'm going to be putting in the motor, so would a Rabe rudder be neccessary to put on the plane because of the extra GP?
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Hi Matt, I can't see a real down side to making provisions for a Rabe rudder. I use one on my Legacy with a 12 ich prop, and wouldn't not use it. H^^
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New question for you guys. I'm going to be using a 14" prop on the RO-Jett 76 I'm going to be putting in the motor, so would a Rabe rudder be neccessary to put on the plane because of the extra GP?
Matt,
It can't hurt to have the means available for the Rabe rudder. The one thing I'd encourage you not to do is to plan in advance what prop you'll be using. Motor's (especially big ones) can swing a variety of props without breaking a sweat. The bottom line for a stunt flier is what prop flies the airplane so well everybody else hopes you'll stay home!
David's been pretty successful with a .75 running a 12.5 X 4.1 or so prop on his WC airplane and no Rabe rudder. The T.P. isn't a great big airplane and there is no guarantee a big prop will be the best match. Ryan Young just won the Junior World Champs with one of David's .75 in an airplane with a T.P. wing and a 12.5 prop.
Not discouraging the Rabe rudder. Just trying to keep you aware that you need to keep your options open. Remember, the original T.P. flew competitively with a variety of props and engines from a .40VF to several different kinds of .60s. The props on the various engines have had more in common than they did in differences. The bottom line with powertrains is that the propeller is the interface between the airplane and its environment. It is more important that the prop suit the airplane than that the propeller meet some predetermined set-up that proved successful in another combination. There is something to be said for a prop that allows the engine to do its job without straining.
I'm very impressed with your approach to the event, Matt. Hope someday we get to spend some time together.
Ted Fancher
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Matt,
It can't hurt to have the means available for the Rabe rudder. The one thing I'd encourage you not to do is to plan in advance what prop you'll be using. Motor's (especially big ones) can swing a variety of props without breaking a sweat. The bottom line for a stunt flier is what prop flies the airplane so well everybody else hopes you'll stay home!
David's been pretty successful with a .75 running a 12.5 X 4.1 or so prop on his WC airplane and no Rabe rudder. The T.P. isn't a great big airplane and there is no guarantee a big prop will be the best match. Ryan Young just won the Junior World Champs with one of David's .75 in an airplane with a T.P. wing and a 12.5 prop.
Not discouraging the Rabe rudder. Just trying to keep you aware that you need to keep your options open. Remember, the original T.P. flew competitively with a variety of props and engines from a .40VF to several different kinds of .60s. The props on the various engines have had more in common than they did in differences. The bottom line with powertrains is that the propeller is the interface between the airplane and its environment. It is more important that the prop suit the airplane than that the propeller meet some predetermined set-up that proved successful in another combination. There is something to be said for a prop that allows the engine to do its job without straining.
I'm very impressed with your approach to the event, Matt. Hope someday we get to spend some time together.
Ted Fancher
Hi Ted,
I'm going to be starting out with the setup Windy uses on his RO-Jett 76, and he sent me 5 or so Rev-Up 14-5s, and according to him, I won't ever need to fiddle with anything in terms of having a better motor run.
This is our first motor bigger than a Super Tigre 60, and it's a 76, so we don't have any props any bigger than a 13-6 unless it's a prop for RC planes. I want to get some other props to try out, but I just don't have enough money to buy anything besides my AMA and PAMPA renewal and fiberglass wheelpants.
Are you going to the NATS next year Ted? I also would like to meet you in person and spend some time around you and the other guys on the west coast.
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I'm going to be starting out with the setup Windy uses on his RO-Jett 76, and he sent me 5 or so Rev-Up 14-5s, and according to him, I won't ever need to fiddle with anything in terms of having a better motor run.
Hmm, maybe it will be OK, but I haven't seen a lot of people have much success with those, including Windy. Could be he got it worked out since the last time I saw it, though. I sure don't like the idea of the giant props, Rabe Rudder or not. One of the keys to our success (and by our, I mean Ted, David, and I, and Paul when he was running the VF) has been running about as small a prop as we can get away with. There's nothing unusual about a Trivial Pursuit that makes it less suitable for larger props, but there's a very good chance that the kind of corner it is known for will be lost.
The underlying principle of the Rabe Rudder is sound. But for goodness sake, make sure you can defeat the rudder motion, and just lock it in place. In fact, lock it in place *dead straight ahead*. Do all your trimming, all the way to the end. Then and only then add rudder motion, in very small amounts, and just enough to take out any residual untrimmable yaw motion. The required motion will be *tiny*. Most people who use them fixate on the rudder, and almost universally end up with far, far too much motion.
Brett
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I've had a couple of planes I used a Rabe Rudder on, but it was usually in response to a trim problem I couldn't fix any other way. My buddy Pat Johnston uses one on every plane, but I couldn't say it he really needs it.
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So ya flew th wings off it! I always thought that was just a saying. Seriously looks like that was a beautiful airplane Ted, a shame you lost it. :'( jim I
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Hi Ted and company, I present my project on construction of Trivial Pursuit, the contruccion going very slowly because of my short time.
I hope you enjoy it.
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Hi Ted and company, I present my project on construction of Trivial Pursuit, the contruccion going very slowly because of my short time.
I hope you enjoy it.
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+++pictures... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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****** VD~ VD~ VD~ VD~
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Nice pictures, Jose, keep them coming, I'm sure everyone enjoys them. y1
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To add to this, I was at Dad's today which is where my stuff stays and we work, I found my set of Trivial Pursuit plans, I had Ted sign them when I bought them and here is what he wrote:
"Aaron build one and kick some serious butt! Ted Fancher"
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f378/waaronl/IMG00145.jpg)
Blurry part comes from some water damage :(
Still haven't built one, still haven't kicked some serious butt, maybe there is a correlation? ???
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Access hatch Taped in place?
Surely im reading this wrong....
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Access hatch Taped in place?
Surely im reading this wrong....
Maybe Teddy will answer but that is what the plans say.
I must also say to anyone if you do not own these plans get them.
They are Steve Buso plans and ALL of his stuff are works of art.
We have a LOT of plans and the Buso ones are my favorite to look at, honestly some are even frame-able.
Windy's BIG Cardinal were Buso plans and man they are just fantastic.
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Taping....... hmm not good in my opinion, fuel residue can lift that tape...
This is the version that Teddy lost due to wing failure correct??
Can we confirm or deny that the plan says
" wings to be taped to fuse "
LL~
Ive always secured the hatch with a 2.56 into small maple block with a slider hatch assembly, lsat thing you want it jettison.
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It (the video, vhs) shows the engine quitting just as it passes inverted in front of Bruce Hunt, it kinda startled him, I guess, he pointed the video camera at the ground and did not record the landing. He does show the bee stuck in the venturi, and a ding on the back fuse under the second "A" in "AMA" on the vertical fin. I guess the bee entering te venturi is on there somewhere, maybe one of the people on one of the CSI shows has a device that can isolate it! Bruce Hunt probably has the video, it's from the 2003 Northwest Championship in Albany, Oregon. I have no idea how to put it on U-tube, there is a reason I'm called "dino", short for dinosaur.>
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Access hatch Taped in place?
Surely im reading this wrong....
I am not sure why you say that. I tape my hatch on, save the space of having to put in a screw and nut, and it's essentially invisible.
Brett
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Brett..
Im saying it becasue ive never heard of taping a hatch..
Im not saying for a moment that it wouldnt work ( obviously it does ) but surely you can admit over time that fuel, cleaning products lifting the tape on and off for trim adjustments, that all this would in all probability reduce the adhesion of said tape.
If your re-applying tape, then fine.. But it just jumped out as strange, with all the engineering talk that goes on over stunters.. That simple tape seemed a little too "simplistic"
Hey im not knocking it, I can rebuff my own argument by saying i seal my hingelines with tape and have 2000+ flights without having it lift off. The only change I make is that im not pulling it off and resticking it to make adjustments.
You can not 100% guarentee that this "tape" will not fail and fly off - heavens knows you would regret it if murphy's law struck and that happened final round of the walker cup. - I just think a proper secure blind nut, or 2/56 thred would be a fail safe solution.
Im not the king of everything, if you say it works, then im not going to doubt that - just ive never heard of this system on a "pro" stunter.
To me it sounds as strange - thats all.
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Steve Buso's plans are the best, I have his Jaquar and Hercules plans, very detailed and easy to understand. /DV
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Brett..
Hey im not knocking it, I can rebuff my own argument by saying i seal my hingelines with tape and have 2000+ flights without having it lift off. The only change I make is that im not pulling it off and resticking it to make adjustments.
You can not 100% guarentee that this "tape" will not fail and fly off - heavens knows you would regret it if murphy's law struck and that happened final round of the walker cup. - I just think a proper secure blind nut, or 2/56 thred would be a fail safe solution.
Hi P.J.,
IMHO "pro" doesn't necessarily mean most difficult or "done for effect". It ultimately means doing things so as to be effective as possible. I used to go to great measures to do clever things for things that could be done more efficiently by simpler means. Although small, there is weight associated with "hardware" almost as far aft as it can be mounted on an airplane that already lends itself to being tail heavy (long tail, short nose and so on). Ergo, why do it??? Also, I've had lots of screws "unscrew themselves" in my modeling career but can't really recall a "tape" failure (especially the Crystal Clear variety that I’ve used for years on hingelines. The stuff is nearly indestructible and adheres aggressively. If applied over an oil free surface it won't come off until you take it off).
In addition, access to the elevator horn is required on a very limited number of occasions. It’s not like the cap on your tank overflow that is “manipulated” every time you fly the airplane. As Brett commented, it also eliminates the need to make an even bigger hole in the tail in order to install the “pro” screw and nut set.
It is a very functional and essentially invisible way to secure a functional structure that has very little need for hard point “failsafe” attachment. My hatches, for example, do nothing to retain the pushrod in the horn. That is accomplished on the pushrod/horn connection itself.
No big deal. It just works great and lasts a long time!
Ted
A
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I use a screw in hatch. The whole hatch rotates on. No hardware needed. Works and it's light.
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AND very cool I might add,,
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Brett..
Im saying it becasue ive never heard of taping a hatch..
Im not saying for a moment that it wouldnt work ( obviously it does ) but surely you can admit over time that fuel, cleaning products lifting the tape on and off for trim adjustments, that all this would in all probability reduce the adhesion of said tape.
If your re-applying tape, then fine.. But it just jumped out as strange, with all the engineering talk that goes on over stunters.. That simple tape seemed a little too "simplistic"
In engineering, there is a concept called "elegance".
Brett
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Yeah, and don't forget "over technical under practical"......Grins
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Ok ok.
I conceed.. I did say in my inital diatribe that
"Hey im not knocking it, I can rebuff my own argument by saying i seal my hingelines with tape and have 2000+ flights without having it lift off."
So I can perfectly see your point, I can also atest to screws "unscrewing" and why add extra weight where not needed.
Once again you defile me with logic and common sense.
I will never forget words along the lines of During the space race one country spent millions of dollars in R&D to develop a pen that wrote in zero gravity, another country used a pencil.
<quote>
IMHO "pro" doesn't necessarily mean most difficult or "done for effect". It ultimately means doing things so as to be effective as possible. I used to go to great measures to do clever things for things that could be done more efficiently by simpler means.
What I meant by " pro " was A: extremely competent in a job, etc. and B :Having or showing great skill; expert:
Then again amongst my group of friends we will use the expression " thats pro " to talk about a range of things.. from hitting a great golf shot, or tennis shot, or smoking a landing - we say " thats pro " or.. " thats pure " Or we might even just throw down "pure" and give a high 5..
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Once again you defile me with logic and common sense.
P.J. I WOULD NEVER "DEFILE" YOU. I'LL GLADLY KEEP YOU IN MY FILES FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. ;D ;D
I will never forget words along the lines of During the space race one country spent millions of dollars in R&D to develop a pen that wrote in zero gravity, another country used a pencil.
NOW THAT IS ELEGANT...AND DARN FUNNY!
<quote>
Then again amongst my group of friends we will use the expression " thats pro " to talk about a range of things.. from hitting a great golf shot...
YEAH, BUT...ULTIMATELY IT'S WHO GETS IN IN THE HOLE IN THE FEWEST WHACKS THAT WINS!
TED
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YEAH, BUT...ULTIMATELY IT'S WHO GETS IN IN THE HOLE IN THE FEWEST WHACKS THAT WINS!
TED
NO that sounds like my flying,, rof HB~>
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YEAH, BUT...ULTIMATELY IT'S WHO GETS IN IN THE HOLE IN THE FEWEST WHACKS THAT WINS!
TED
You know, Ted, PGA Tour Golf is like the top CLPA pilots........ their misses are a lot less than the hacker's and they know how to recover better! (from the man who has shaken hands several times with Arnold! LOL!!)
Big Bear
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Hmm, maybe it will be OK, but I haven't seen a lot of people have much success with those, including Windy. Could be he got it worked out since the last time I saw it, though. I sure don't like the idea of the giant props, Rabe Rudder or not. One of the keys to our success (and by our, I mean Ted, David, and I, and Paul when he was running the VF) has been running about as small a prop as we can get away with. There's nothing unusual about a Trivial Pursuit that makes it less suitable for larger props, but there's a very good chance that the kind of corner it is known for will be lost.
The underlying principle of the Rabe Rudder is sound. But for goodness sake, make sure you can defeat the rudder motion, and just lock it in place. In fact, lock it in place *dead straight ahead*. Do all your trimming, all the way to the end. Then and only then add rudder motion, in very small amounts, and just enough to take out any residual untrimmable yaw motion. The required motion will be *tiny*. Most people who use them fixate on the rudder, and almost universally end up with far, far too much motion.
Brett
Brett,
I'm going to be starting with Windy's setup, and then will try experimenting once I get this thing trimmed. Obviously this wouldn't happen until next year, and I don't want to keep doing what I've been doing, "it seems to work ok, but this is the only prop I've tried" sort of thing. Since I'm going to the NATS, I want this thing trimmed as good as I can get it to be trimmed for any *flyable* weather condition. I am hoping to get a couple of Dorin's 3 bladed props for the 76, once he starts making them again, and Kent Tysor told me he would send me a couple of Brian Eather's props he's been using to try out.
All of this trimming discussion is getting me all excited for next year. ;D