News:


  • April 24, 2024, 10:00:38 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Plane trimming  (Read 1814 times)

Offline Matt Piatkowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Plane trimming
« on: July 22, 2017, 11:03:39 AM »
Hello,
Please see the attached and comment.

Thank you,
M

"Learning never stops and when it does you are most certainly dead"


Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2017, 11:37:30 AM »
Hello,
Please see the attached and comment.


   Just post your question conventionally, like:

Quote
EParrot has the theoretical trust line, wings and the horizontal stabilizer on the same level. Level flights in perfect weather revealed that the plane flies with its nose a bit down. Inverted flights look and feel perfect.
Which way to shim the motor and how much?
Matt



    My suggestion is to put 1/2 turn of "up" in the elevator. If you insist on the thrust line, put in down thrust.

    Brett

Offline John McFayden

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 139
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 11:39:31 AM »
If the pushrod is adjustable perhaps pulling the elevator down in relation to the flaps may raise the nose if the flaps are just a touch up in level flight .                                                                            John McFayden

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 11:50:12 AM »
If the pushrod is adjustable perhaps pulling the elevator down in relation to the flaps may raise the nose if the flaps are just a touch up in level flight .                                                                            John McFayden

   That is likely to have the opposite effect. The elevator will still wind up near 0. If you put in down elevator, the flaps will end up deflected down in level flight, with means the airplane as a whole will have to be slightly nosed down to develop the necessary lift (the weight of the airplane).   Up elevator, on the other hand, will result in the flaps being up slightly in level flight, meaning the AoA will have to be more positive, which will nose the airplane up.

    Downthrust is not an effective way of achieving this, but if anything, downthrust will require more angle of attack since you are increasing the nose-down torque (or reducing the nose-up torque), and the elevator will have to apply some "up" to correct it, AND, you will be getting some tiny amount more lift to compensate for the prop vectoring some thrust down. The problem is that it is a very weak effect in level flight.

     "In-line" airplanes almost always have some funny trim issues because of it, mostly because there is still nose-up precession to deal with. That's *probably* the cause of Matt's issue, however, even a tiny misalignment in eh stab would cause the same thing. In-line airplanes are not remotely "symmetrical", until you have contra-rotating props.

    Brett

   

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2326
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 12:12:29 PM »
It isn't clear to me that the airplane has flaps.  None are "obvious" from the picture and it would be important to know if there are any and, if so, how Matt would characterize their "state" at neutral ("neutral" being fungible if there are flaps).

Ted

Also noted the leadouts appear to be pretty far aft.  Is the power train electric and are they positioned based on the new Paul Walker amps and ohms norm?

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 12:25:51 PM »
It isn't clear to me that the airplane has flaps.  None are "obvious" from the picture and it would be important to know if there are any and, if so, how Matt would characterize their "state" at neutral ("neutral" being fungible if there are flaps).
   
     If you blow it up, I think I see the hinge line right below the black "dot"/smudge on the fuse side.

     Brett

Offline Matt Piatkowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2017, 01:23:39 PM »
Hello and thank you for your thoughts.

Brett,
I will put 1/2 turn of "up" in the elevator, fly tomorrow or Monday and report the status.

Ted,
EParrot has flaps. The wings to flaps hingeline is completely sealed with the stabilized nylon (kite nylon).
To answer your question about "neutral", I will introduce the right hand Cartesian Coordinate System. This CS has the 0/0/0 at the spinner tip, the X axis points AFT, Y axis - towards the outside wing tip and the Z axis points UP. The flaps are at neutral where their middle plane is in the X-Y plane of this CS.

Your comment about leadouts being pretty far aft has been noted. For the last two weeks, I was forced to fly in gusty conditions and L.O. moved aft helped, at least in my case. I am at the intermediate pattern level now and still need more "mileage" to fly with the higher level of confidence.

Today's morning conditions were ideal - no wind, no wind gusts, very little thermal convection from the circle because the clouds shaded the sun completely and I flew without dark glasses. Next time when I fly in such conditions, I will keep incrementally moving the L.O. FWD to feel the difference.

EParrot is powered by Cobra 2820/12, using 4S 3000 mAh and 4S 2200 mAh batteries and turning 11x5.5 EP Multi APC prop. ESC: Cobra 40+. Timers: KR governors set for 5 and 4 minutes respectively. Please provide the link to the new Paul Walker amps and ohms norm.

John,
Both pushrod ends and the B-crank wire end are fully accessible for easy adjustment.
I will write about it, between other interesting things, in the article for the MAAC Magazine we have discussed recently.

Best Regards and Happy Flying,
M



Online Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6866
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2017, 02:10:41 PM »
     If you are sure that the thrust line/ wing/ stab-elevator are all on "0", and the airplane does not hunt  and tracks well, then everything else is just going along for the ride. It may just be an optical illusion, as you say it "looks fine" inverted. I think if you go cranking things around to make the fuselage "look" like it's level, you may be inducing other problems and affect inside and outside rounds, and corners. I would fly it as is until you finish other trimming processes.It may not be as bad as it looks, and if it performs to your satisfaction, that is the real pay off. You may not have the "0" line straight through the fuselage where it would "appear" to be flying level.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Steve Helmick

  • AMA Member and supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 9937
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2017, 04:53:02 PM »
All this PDF stuff is a hassle, and I hope Matt will start doing conventional posts. Maybe type in Word or Wordpad and copy/paste text into your post?

First thing I'd try would be a slightly shorter clip on the "up" line. Second thing I'd try would be adjusting the elevator...probably "up"....or whatever Brett says.

I'm curious about this "kite nylon" stuff. Per your post, it sounds like it's only on the flaps? Is it 100% air tight? How thick is it? Why use this stuff instead of clear 3M tape? For sure, you need to seal the elevators, if they are not currently.  D>K Steve 
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Matt Piatkowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2017, 05:26:50 PM »
Hi Steve,
Why is the PDF format a "hassle"?
It is one of the formats that is widely accepted across the computerized world.

Talking "one of the formats"....When the Attach-Browse button is clicked there are many allowed file types. One of them is PDF.

Please ask somebody who manages this entire site to remove the PDF from the list and you will not see another PDF from me again.

Re: nylon seal: only flaps-wings hinge line is sealed. I will seal the elevator hinge line next time I fly with tape and compare the feel.
No, this stabilized nylon is not 100% air tight like tape and I do not know what this percentage is. I do not know the thickness of it either but it is comparable to the thickness of scotch tape.

Best Regards,
M
 

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2017, 06:03:03 PM »
Hi Steve,
Why is the PDF format a "hassle"?
It is one of the formats that is widely accepted across the computerized world.

   Instead of "click on thread and see the information", you have to "hit "download", find the file in your download folder, open it in Preview or Acrobat Reader, and see the information". This for a 4-line message with one picture. That's why I did all that myself, then reposted it the normal way, so other people could see it easily. Yes, it is not insurmountable, but everyone else manages to post it normally and then other people can easily read it. It would have been far easier to say "screw it, there are a lot of other threads to read" and move on.

   Certainly the forum software permits it, and no one is going to ban the format just to force you to post your stuff normally, but consider the reader's time. It's *your* problem *you* want to solve, taking 45 seconds to type in the text and attach a picture the normal way will save everybody else from having to do it themselves.


    Brett

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2017, 06:17:31 PM »
To answer your question about "neutral", I will introduce the right hand Cartesian Coordinate System. This CS has the 0/0/0 at the spinner tip, the X axis points AFT, Y axis - towards the outside wing tip and the Z axis points UP. The flaps are at neutral where their middle plane is in the X-Y plane of this CS.

    Not to pile on, but, you don't need to re-invent the wheel -  use the conventional aircraft axes, which are rotated 180 degrees around your Y axis. This coordinate definition has been around since before the Wright brothers. +X/Roll/phi is out the nose, in the direction of flight, +Y/Pitch/theta is out the right wing (as you have it), and the Z/Yaw/psi axis is down. Positive roll is a roll to the right, positive pitch is nose-up, and positive yaw is to the right, as is required for a right-handed coordinate system.

   Brett

Offline Steve Helmick

  • AMA Member and supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 9937
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2017, 11:19:28 PM »
I downloaded the pdf and for some reason, Firefox seemed to think it should be the program to open it. I knew better, but it took me at least 10 minutes to circumvent Firefox's desires. Between Firefox and myself, guess which wasn't happy, and which didn't give a rat's rump?  LL~ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Matt Piatkowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2017, 04:22:58 AM »
Brett,

I cannot copy-paste the screen dumps HERE. I am forced to use Attach - Browse.

I am using Windows7 and Firefox. ????

Regarding coordinate system: no problem. RH Cartesian with the X axis pointing FWD is fine.

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2326
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2017, 11:05:29 AM »
     If you are sure that the thrust line/ wing/ stab-elevator are all on "0", and the airplane does not hunt  and tracks well, then everything else is just going along for the ride. It may just be an optical illusion, as you say it "looks fine" inverted. I think if you go cranking things around to make the fuselage "look" like it's level, you may be inducing other problems and affect inside and outside rounds, and corners. I would fly it as is until you finish other trimming processes.It may not be as bad as it looks, and if it performs to your satisfaction, that is the real pay off. You may not have the "0" line straight through the fuselage where it would "appear" to be flying level.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

I really like Dan's analysis.  A closer look at the shadows of the picture revealed the not immediately obvious lowered belly of the fuse forward roughly of the wing trailing edge to the nose.  That forward belly bulge accented by the rounded rudder atop a narrowed aft fuselage gives the profile an amorphous "tadpole" sort of look to it that appears almost designed to distort the shape's relationship to its direction of motion.

Ultimately, as Dan points out, it is the direction the object moves during maneuvers that is the sole determinant of "success" in flying the pattern.That, along with ease of construction, is a significant part of the reason for the classic, mostly straight line, profiles for most successful stunt designs  (Al Rabe amazing semi-scales are an obvious departure but their uniqueness and undisputed capabilities almost help make the point of the general "pack" of straightedge stunters).

Matt's opening description of the polywog's flight performance makes a pretty good case for this tadpole doing a pretty darn good imitation of those fundamental requirements for a reasonably sound aerodynamic package.

Ted

p.s. Brett, I'll go look for the flaps now.

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2326
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 11:19:00 AM »
   
     If you blow it up, I think I see the hinge line right below the black "dot"/smudge on the fuse side.

     Brett

Good catch, as usual, Brett.  My impression of the image before blowing it up was that it was a direct side view and the wingtip was all that was visible of the wing...the thought supported by the dead on view of the stab/elevator.  I was thinking what turned out to be the narrow view of the top of the wing was some sort of fillet.  My assessment in support of Dan McEntee's post is toward the end of the thread right now.  Sort of an "if it ain't broke...etc." shrug.

Online Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6866
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2017, 12:22:40 PM »
  The way I assemble my airplanes to try and assure the alignment I want, I use three Robart incidence meters. I think I have 5 all together and watch for them at swap meets to pick them up cheap. Even at full price, they are a good tool. I set one up to attach to the engine/power plant to check thrust line against the center line. I put another one in the wing at the root. I take the third one apart to set it on top of the stab. I generally favor flat stabs, so this is easy, but if you have airfoil shaped stabs, you need to install it the regular way. I have a couple of old Black and Decker small Bench Mate vises with rubber jaws. I set up the fuselage in one of these. If I have a good, visible center line on the fuselage side still I carefully measure from the bench to the center line at the nose and tail and adjust until it's level. The table need to be level for this purpose also. . Then add all the Robart meters and check one against the other. If you are building a model that is 0-0-0, this is all pretty easy to do and measure, and gets you pretty darn close to a perfect alignment. You can eyeball the side view of the airplane at this time to see how it looks because in theory, it should look the same way in flight. I recheck all of this until I have everything assembled, adjusted and glued securely in place, them proceed to finish the airplane. I have been setting up any new models I have built following Bob Whitely's suggestions in his article about "things that always work" in Stunt News several years ago and that is usually 1 degree down thrust, wing at 0 to the center line, and 1/2 to 1 degree positive incidence on the stab. I have found that this works very well for me in that the airplanes track very well right off the board, and helps put a model very close to desired trim right off the board. Using the three Robart meters makes this pretty easy to do also.  However you do it and how ever you prefer to set up your airplanes, attention to small details at this point pays off in the final result. I try to do this the same way on every airplane as I feel this breeds consistency. I think that changing style and designs of models, especially when you are climbing the skill level ladder, is counter productive in that you never get used to anything or have a chance to really decide what you like and are comfortable with. David Fitzgerald just won the NATS again and I doubt that it was with an airplane that was even a small departure from what has been successful for him in the past. ( still with the Thundergazer, I presume?) That doesn't mean that you will have the same success with the same design right off the bat. An accurately built SIG Chipmunk may fit your needs or one of the hundreds of designs that are out there. If you are at the intermediate level, Matt, I would really look hard at some simpler designs of a smaller size and at control geometry and throws that you find comfortable. You can make the airplanes look like anything you want, but always use the same "numbers" to help you get the same feel for each airplane you build. Build, fly and repeat until you reach those "Aha!" moments where things fall into place for you and you can see, hear and feel subtle differences and build confidence and consistency. It won't happen over night or even one summer. I spent about 17 years from my first beginner contest until I won my first local contest in the expert class against some pretty good flyers whose names most would recognize. But I enjoyed every minute of the 17 years, met a lot of great people and learned more than I have been able to retain probably.  Chart yourself a course and plan for how you want to proceed and stick to it. When you do get to make the trip to Brodaks and other contests. Spend as much time just watching others fly, what they are using for equipment and gather information to refer back to later. Yogi Berra said it best that you can observe a lot just by watching! Others have made all the mistakes that you are about to make and anything that you can do to avoid that and straighten out the learning curve as much as you can will be very beneficial to you in your situation with not having much local help to fly and practice with. Keep an open mind about what you see, read and hear and common sense will help you sort out what is BS and what to apply to your program.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Fredvon4

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Central Texas
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 12:36:05 PM »
Matt

Just some perspective, and not because I have ANY experienced or advise to offer for your frequent well done questions

As a LONG time Forum guy, I loath when I have to DOWN LOAD a PDF ---or other photo or attachment ---to my desktop to later open with one of my apps...MS Photo editor or Adobe

Many Many of us, are rural and even in the 23rd century, we are ISP bandwidth challenged (768 kbps up and 256 Kbps down) and the simple act of clicking the attachment now has US waiting for 3 to 23 min for the down load ...then security scan and then open...a true RPITA (ok brother--- that is a ROYAL pain in the back side)

While I personally do NOT like this forums photo hosting method, (no true preview) IT does work for about 23 different file types--- and allows the users like me to instantly see the image photo or file without the lag of a local down load

Your current method of query, usually demands some kind soul to take the time to DOWN LOAD, wait, Open, and try to bounce from the file on a desk top, to the forum question and offer some advice...

Sorry Matt if this sounds harsh ---but what a few of the guys are saying -----is they would like to help -----BUT YOU make it hard and that is selfish or inconsiderate....IMO
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12808
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2017, 02:01:11 PM »
I cannot copy-paste the screen dumps HERE. I am forced to use Attach - Browse.

Screen dumps?  Type in your text, attach your photos using the same attach-browse action you need to do with PDFs.  Just like -- well, just like absolutely everyone else, including the Linux (and, I have no doubt) Mac users.

People who know me will enthusiastically agree that I'm the last one to be found going with the herd just because that's the direction the herd is going.  But if the herd is going somewhere sensible, then it makes sense to follow.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2017, 03:23:08 PM »
I cannot copy-paste the screen dumps HERE. I am forced to use Attach - Browse.

   "Screen dump"?  What "screen dump" are you talking about?  You have some text and a picture. Type in the text just like all the other responses. Format the picture to fit (I recommend 72 DPI and 14" along the longest dimension, and JPG). That, you do have to "attach". However, you have to do it once. Doing it your way, *everybody else* has to do something.

    If you already have a PDF, use "select text", and select the text, copy it, and paste it. That's what I did for your posted PDF. I did a screen capture only because it was really fast, then attached that. If I had the original picture, it would have been much easier and there are no "Screen dumps" required.

   Brett

Offline Matt Piatkowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 10:59:58 AM »
Gentlemen,
Because the thread was initially about plane trimming, I will comment regarding plane trimming first.
Brett's suggestion to modify the elevator position w/r to 0.0 deg. flaps worked. EParrot tracks a little better in the normal flight and the fuselage X axis seems to be horizontal now. Inverted flight stayed good and I am not modifying anything else at the moment.

Before I comment on the *.PDF thing, I would like to kindly ask Brett to cool down. No offense intended, Brett, but I am under the impression that you are in the perpetual fighting mode responding to all my messages. Perhaps this is the way you normally communicate but this is not the way I communicate.
Thank you for your understanding.

Please see the test message below. Text in brackets are my comments:

[Please imagine that X, V and Z below represent the body of the message]
XXXXXXXXX
VVVVVVVVV
ZZZZZZZZZ

[Here comes an interesting part. I am trying to follow Brett's directions: "....That, you do have to "attach". However, you have to do it once." Sorry, Brett, but I do not understand the meaning of "once" in the context of the sentence..". Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate.
I am attempting to attach *.JPG now].

Ooops! The JPG image does not appear directly below XXXX...,VVV....and ZZZ...

To attach it I am (like I wrote before) forced to use the Browse button and the effect is no different than in *PDF file case.

Everybody's comments and further suggestions are, like always, appreciated.
Thank you,
Matt











Offline Matt Piatkowski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2017, 12:06:28 PM »
Hi Motorman,
I am trying to satisfy the requests regarding the way in which I post my messages containing images that were usually saved as PDF.
Steve Helmick did not like the PDF file and Brett Buck and Tim Wescott did not like my individualism either. The argument was used that "everybody does this one way and I should follow".
I have nothing against following therefore I am trying to follow.

Regards,
M

"Learning never stops even when you follow the crowd"




Offline Kim Doherty

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2017, 12:25:13 PM »


[Please imagine that X, V and Z below represent the body of the message]
XXXXXXXXX
VVVVVVVVV
ZZZZZZZZZ

[Here comes an interesting part. I am trying to follow Brett's directions: "....That, you do have to "attach". However, you have to do it once." Sorry, Brett, but I do not understand the meaning of "once" in the context of the sentence..". Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate.
I am attempting to attach *.JPG now].

I am attempting to attach *.JPG now].
Ooops! The JPG image does not appear directly below XXXX...,VVV....and ZZZ...
Matt

Matt,

With respect to Brett saying the image had to be attached "once", this picture of your cowl illustrates this principle. I did not "attach" your image of the cowl to this post. Rather, I created a "reference or link" to it. The reference is directed to the place YOU "attached" it to when you made the post. I could not have done this if you had not already stored/attached the image. Once it is stored in some WWW accessible device it has an address. So, store it once (i.e. "attach it")  at a given address and then you can use it anywhere on the web millions of times. 

You could use the following code snipit to place your picture in the body of your text:

<img src="https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47349.0;attach=273390;image" alt="https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47349.0;attach=273390;image" class="shrinkToFit" height="339" width="451">

You will need to remove the "&lt;" and the "&gt;" and replace them with "<" and ">"

[img width= height= alt=https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47349.0;attach=273390;image" class="shrinkToFit" height="339" width="451]https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47349.0;attach=273390;image[/img]

Just hit "modify" and insert the code where you want the picture. ( I think this will work)

Kim
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 09:05:55 AM by Kim Doherty »

Offline Dane Martin

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
  • heli pilot BHOR
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2017, 12:52:24 PM »
I haven't posted anything in a long time until recently, and I may regret doing so now.... lol
I find myself bored thinking this is a great expense for someone who is an intermediate pilot (I believe that's what you said Matt. I apologize if that's not correct). For example, I'm probably going to fly at the Knights joust. I'll enter advanced and profile, and just use the same plane. It's a box stock twister, with a dirt cheap OS engine, that's starts and runs the same, all day every day.
I had a Strega with a Ro-Jett all set up and ready. I even put up some reasonable patterns with it. But, I'm usually cool with setting up engines and pipes. Also, I got my parts from Randy, all the pipe measurements from Randy, and just copied what Brett had his set up as. His set up won the Nats, so it's more than good enough for me.

What I guess I'm saying is, I would enter a stunt contest with one of my F2D planes if someone would launch and catch it for me. I spent all my time flying, not setting up engines. I bought known good set up's and ran with it. You obviously have nice stuff. The higher end stuff requires more experienced set up, I believe.

I'm only saying this because I feel you want to compete in stunt. You said something about Brodak as a first contest. If you're more into the building and experimenting side, then disregard what I've said as the ramblings of someone bored and looking for something to do! Any way, I hope you find your niche of this hobby and enjoy it whole heartedly.

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 01:05:07 PM »
Hi Motorman,
I am trying to satisfy the requests regarding the way in which I post my messages containing images that were usually saved as PDF.
Steve Helmick did not like the PDF file and Brett Buck and Tim Wescott did not like my individualism either. The argument was used that "everybody does this one way and I should follow".

   You are reading far more into this and jumping to the wrong conclusion. You want people to assist you, but then requiring them to take additional steps to even see what you are talking about. If you want assistance, it makes sense for *you* to do the up-front work once to make it easier for the reader, rather than require the reader to take those additional steps themselves. Most people see your PDF file, and just skip past it.

   It's not about mindlessly doing it the same way as everyone else because that what we always do.  And it says nothing about your individuality being affronted. Just do slightly more on your side to reduce the effort required on the side of the reader.

     Brett

Offline Steve Helmick

  • AMA Member and supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 9937
Re: Plane trimming
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2017, 02:45:34 PM »
Bingo!  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here