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Author Topic: Plane for OS 15 LA  (Read 1061 times)

Offline Motorman

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Plane for OS 15 LA
« on: October 05, 2018, 06:30:09 PM »
What's a good sport/stunt plane with a built up wing for an LA 15. I'm looking at the PDQ Flying Clown but I think it will pull more so, maybe something about 300 Sq. In?

Thanks,
Motorman 8)

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Online Larry Renger

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 07:23:19 PM »
Junior Flite Streak.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan

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Offline Ron Santia

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 08:47:44 PM »
Magician 15
AMA# 1004982

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 06:14:08 AM »
Don't forget the Shark .15.

Offline frank mccune

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 09:00:05 AM »
       Hello Walt:

        I have the following nib that you may like:

        Shark 15 270 sq, inches

         Flitestreak Jr.

        Ringmaster Flash 230" ?

        Magician 15
     
        I always liked the Shark 15! I flew them to death with an ST G15 and an old Fox .15 slant plug.  As ammater of fact, I have one ready to fly and one ready to cover hanging in my attic. 

        If interested, drop me a line.


                                                                                                                                                Be well.

                                                                                                                                                Frank McCune

       

Online Gary Dowler

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 09:34:19 AM »
Profanity is the crutch of the illiterate mind

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 01:49:30 PM »
Hi MM,
A Skyray 35 does really well the the LA 15 size engine if you shorten the lines to about 52í.  I suspect the modern 15ís have more power than the older 29ís and can handle models this size with ease. 

Later,
Mikey

Offline Dwayne Donnelly

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 05:02:22 PM »
Akromaster!!! y1 y1
My purpose in life is to serve as warning to others

 maac 44334

Online peabody

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 05:41:40 PM »
Brodak CUB is mifty

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2018, 05:53:47 PM »
Gaah, I hate to quote others on this, but:

Consider a Ringmaster.  A 20FP is too much for a Ringmaster, really (I have one, it was delightful when it had the 20FP on it, it makes a fine plane for carrier with a 40FP, but the 20FP really was too much for stunt - and with the 40FP you just stick to level flight and everything is OK).  I've seen Brett Buck suggest that a 15LA would be ideal for a Ringmaster if it was built with attention to weight.  However -- I have not tried it, or seen one done, so I can't say for sure.  You'd be a trailblazer in your local community if you tried it.
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2018, 06:30:05 PM »
Gaah, I hate to quote others on this, but:

Consider a Ringmaster.  A 20FP is too much for a Ringmaster, really (I have one, it was delightful when it had the 20FP on it, it makes a fine plane for carrier with a 40FP, but the 20FP really was too much for stunt - and with the 40FP you just stick to level flight and everything is OK).  I've seen Brett Buck suggest that a 15LA would be ideal for a Ringmaster if it was built with attention to weight.  However -- I have not tried it, or seen one done, so I can't say for sure.  You'd be a trailblazer in your local community if you tried it.

If memory serves me, I'd think he'd say the 15FP would work in a very light one.
I don't like to be a neigh sayer, but I'm not too impressed with the 15LA vs the 15FP. I've flown then back to back in an Akromaster. With a 15LA, I'd stay around that range of plane. But that's my unqualified opinion.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2018, 06:44:08 PM »
If memory serves me, I'd think he'd say the 15FP would work in a very light one.
I don't like to be a neigh sayer, but I'm not too impressed with the 15LA vs the 15FP. I've flown then back to back in an Akromaster. With a 15LA, I'd stay around that range of plane. But that's my unqualified opinion.

Well, that's why I hate quoting others!  Thanks for jumping in.
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 07:36:37 PM »
Well, that's why I hate quoting others!  Thanks for jumping in.

By the by, I'm currently flying my ringmaster with a veco 19. And I'm loving it!
Sorry for the thread drift

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2018, 07:48:02 PM »
Dane,
One if the first prototype Skyray 35 I built was powered by an older Max III 15 and it flew just fine on shorter lines mainly because the LA 15 werenít around then and thatís what I had.

Mikey

Online Dane Martin

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 08:08:25 PM »
Dane,
One if the first prototype Skyray 35 I built was powered by an older Max III 15 and it flew just fine on shorter lines mainly because the LA 15 werenít around then and thatís what I had.

Mikey

I honestly think the max III 15 is a better engine than the LA. I still have one on a biplane for the kids. Out of the LA series, it's my least favorite and I have all of them. I don't doubt at all a good 15 could fly a Skyray. Maybe the 2 la15's I've had just sucked and are not indicative of their normal performance

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 08:23:36 PM »
I honestly think the max III 15 is a better engine than the LA. I still have one on a biplane for the kids. Out of the LA series, it's my least favorite and I have all of them. I don't doubt at all a good 15 could fly a Skyray. Maybe the 2 la15's I've had just sucked and are not indicative of their normal performance

   Either one is asking an awful lot. I have flown my Skyray (both the original parts version at about 35 ounces, and the rebuild at about 30 ounces) with a lot of vintage engines, and a 15FP. It flew *OK* with the 15FP, better than with a Fox 35, but not nearly the miraculous improvement like the 20FP/"new" 25LA.

     All the others required significant accommodation (as Mikey notes, short lines, and also good conditions) with almost all the vintage baffle-piston engines like the OS 20S, McCoy 19 front-rotor, and the McCoy 19RR (rebuilt by GMA himself to original standards) and it wasn't great. I also tried the mighty Supertigre G20/15, but it wasn't a match for the 15FP. It did save me a lot of time, because I didn't bother trying to figure out how to mount a Cox Olympic 15 on it.

The best of rest was the 19RR. I tried it on the stand, APC 9-4, 11,500, seemed great, this is going to really work. Then I tried flying it, it rolls about 5 feet, and quits lean! Not enough fuel suction to get through the takeoff roll. I ended up flying it (and winning A Stunt at some WAM contest at the Nut Tree airport) but that was with an 8-6 and Cox Racing Fuel, and it was just good enough. 

   The Veco 19BB and the STG20/23 are really the only vintage engines in the range we are talking about that seems up to the task. Neither is quite a match for the 20FP in terms of in-flight performance, but they are viable.

    I didn't have a 15LA at the time, but that seems pretty optimistic to me. A Max-III seems even more improbable (bring the nitro and some spare parts...)  but YMMV.

     Brett

Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2018, 09:41:22 PM »




Simplified , tho .
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 10:02:22 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2018, 10:04:01 PM »
This ones really freaky, about 40 in span .



https://freercplans.com/plan1238.search.htm

Online Guy B Jr

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2018, 10:31:54 PM »
A UKEY 15 (if you can find one) will fly the pattern with a LA15, 8/3 wood prop, 52' lines. There is a picture of mine somewhere around here.
Guy Blankinship

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2018, 11:03:25 PM »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline James Holford

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2018, 03:12:58 PM »
Brodak CUB is mifty
Was going to be my suggestion as well. Seems like a fun little build!

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Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2018, 06:16:24 PM »
Why not try something different?
The Red Hot Angel is the best flying 15 powered plane I've ever flown.

Bob Z.

Offline Motorman

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2018, 08:45:50 PM »
Do you think the LA 15 @5.4 oz. would be too heavy for a Wee Duper Zilch?
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2018, 09:12:25 PM »
The problem with "15-sized" airplanes is that you have to know which 15 you are talking about. There is a *huge* range of power in "15" engines, maybe the biggest range of any particular size. A Flite Streak Jr, Junior Nobler, or Ringmaster Jr. is good with a Max III or Fox 15 (where legally permitted...), but it's entirely crazy to fly them with a 15FP, and even crazier to try it with a 2.5cc combat engine.   I haven't run the 15LA but would expect much more power than a Max III/Fox and less than a 15FP, which puts you in an odd range between the "junior" models and the smaller 35-sized airplanes.

   15LA, I would look at a lightly-built airplane in the range of about 320-350 square inches, and shoot for a flying weight of around 20-24 ounces.

     Brett

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2018, 08:58:04 AM »
... is good with a Max III or Fox 15 (where legally permitted...), but it's entirely crazy to fly them with a 15FP ...

Hey Brett!

Is your advise on the Max III based on experience?  I got some on eBay (silly impulse buy, for smallish old-time planes), then found out that they were a Really Hot engine in their day.  As you point out, the variation from 15 to 15 is tremendous, I'm wondering where the Max III stacks up.
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Offline Dan Berry

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2018, 09:04:29 AM »
The problem with "15-sized" airplanes is that you have to know which 15 you are talking about. There is a *huge* range of power in "15" engines, maybe the biggest range of any particular size. A Flite Streak Jr, Junior Nobler, or Ringmaster Jr. is good with a Max III or Fox 15 (where legally permitted...), but it's entirely crazy to fly them with a 15FP, and even crazier to try it with a 2.5cc combat engine.   I haven't run the 15LA but would expect much more power than a Max III/Fox and less than a 15FP, which puts you in an odd range between the "junior" models and the smaller 35-sized airplanes.

   15LA, I would look at a lightly-built airplane in the range of about 320-350 square inches, and shoot for a flying weight of around 20-24 ounces.

     Brett

Take a rib bay off either side of Jr Flight Dtreak, cover it with parachute nylon and bolt on a Super Tigre 40.

Online Dennis Moritz

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Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2018, 10:18:44 AM »
Bob Zambelli¬ís plane is sized right for an La/Fp 15. I loved flying a jr flite streak with an Fp15. Wips around at slow combat speed. Also needs tail weight even with a tongue muffler. No stunt ship. Far from it. Tho a sorta pattern is possible. I suspect Aldridge¬íís Peacemaker would be interesting. The profile version in particular. I¬ím not sure if there¬ís a kit. Modern schnurle 15s (1975 and above) put out way more power than typical baffle piston engines. They¬íre also timed to run fast.

Perhaps a lite (lite!) Super Clown would hit a sweet spot with that engine. The typical Old Time baffle piston 35 sized planes work well with LA/Fp 25s. An Fp 20 will work if plane isn’t porky. Zambelli’s option is one of the few planes I’ve seen that look designed for a schnurle 15.


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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2018, 10:50:27 AM »
Hey Brett!

Is your advise on the Max III based on experience?  I got some on eBay (silly impulse buy, for smallish old-time planes), then found out that they were a Really Hot engine in their day.  As you point out, the variation from 15 to 15 is tremendous, I'm wondering where the Max III stacks up.

   They weren't a particularly hot engine in their day. Hot engines in their day were the SuperTigre G20/15 and Rossi 15, and depending on how you define "their day" either the Cox Special 15 or the Conquest 15 (which was a copy of the Rossi down to interchangable parts, along with some other copies that apparently exist). The Max III was a nice enough engine by the standards of the day, but that's the sort of engine the "Jr" versions of stunters were designed for. Lew McFarland used to fly his Shark 15 with a Max II or III 15, for instance, and you wouldn't consider putting an 15FP on a 270 square inch airplane, at least for stunt flying purposes - since it will fly regular old 35-size full-bodied stunt planes twice that size fairly well.    A Shark 15 does fine with a Fox 15 Slantplug, back before people realized its true purpose. A Max III is in the same ballpark.

   Now that everyone is lining up the lynch mobs for me, none of this means that anything is "bad", it just means you need to choose the application appropriately. I flew as many of these "Jr." models as anyone back in the day, the Ringmaster Jr., for example, being my first ever "big" airplane. I had only a G20/.23, it went something like 90 mph, couldn't be balanced properly, and shed parts on almost every flight.  If I was building one today, I would use an Enya 09, Hornet 09, etc. 

Most of my successful flights with the "Jr" models were with either a Max III 15, OS 20S, or 25S, the 25S being overkill for something like a Jr. Nobler (which, if I recall correctly, showed a Cox Sportsman 15 as one of the alternate engines).

   As noted, I haven't ever run my 15LA, much less flown it, so if it is much weaker than a 15FP, then maybe you can be OK with <300 square inches. But I know for sure that this would be a disaster with a 15FP. I would be concerned about creating an uncontrollable "bomb" airplane that would then lead people to want to modify the engine, thus ruining it, simply to make it work like a 60's 15.

   Cut and try is a perfectly acceptable engineering method, so trying it and seeing what works and what doesn't would seem to be the way to go, you just need a starting point - 350 square inches and lightly constructed (because it won't have to handle inordinate vibration) is where I would start

      Brett

Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2018, 11:48:00 AM »
You might want to contact Phil Cartier, ask him about a foamie. The combat guys use la 15s. Some of those foamies look big enough to fly at reasonable sport plane speeds when powered by la15s. When run full out the combat guys Iíve spoke to say la15s and fp15s have similar power. Slight edge to FPs.


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Online Dane Martin

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2018, 11:52:52 AM »
You might want to contact Phil Cartier, ask him about a foamie. The combat guys use la 15s. Some of those foamies look big enough to fly at reasonable sport plane speeds when powered by la15s. When run full out the combat guys Iíve spoke to say la15s and fp15s have similar power. Slight edge to FPs.


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Agreed, but I'll point out, if you're running pressure like a bladder or crankcase, then the LA 15 seems to do ok. Especially when running no muffler and high fuel pressure. But in my opinion, running on suction with the stock muffler, they're weak compared to other 15's I've used.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 12:46:12 PM by Dane Martin »

Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2018, 11:55:02 AM »
Not much of a vibration issue with la/Fp 15s. We set them to run pretty hard. Conventionally built jrStreaks are no problem with engine run. Theyíre just too small for all that power. Unless you want to fly at slow combat speeds.


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Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2018, 11:59:43 AM »
Yep. Combat guys run on bladder. Even pull out the Venturi.

Phil might be able to cut a profile kit that works with this engine. Regular tank then a possibility.


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Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2018, 12:57:28 PM »
Yes. We run LA15s with free flowing tongue mufflers. Power is near fp15 level.


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Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2018, 12:58:21 PM »
Two ounce chicken hoppers feed well.


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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2018, 01:00:04 PM »
We had a local guy (Emil Kovak) who built a series of Ringmasters for OTS competition. Some have bought those, and reported that a 16 oz Ringmaster with a .15FP was amazing in a light breeze, but got hairy when the wind picked up. He built some 18 or 20 oz Ringmasters for .25FP's, and the story was that they were a better compromise. This was before anybody knew about the .21FP, apparently.

I'd suggest the SIG Akromaster, but stretching the wing, lengthening the fuselage rear and larger horizontal tail... a "Fancherized" Akromaster, if you will. You'll probably want to use 3" pitch props. Which APC has, if you're willing to special order them.   D>K Steve

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Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2018, 02:14:48 PM »
A stretched Akromaster might be sweet. Easy to do. Straight wing. Moveable flaps might also calm airplane down, some. Upping stab/elevator size could also help. Aside from Bobby Z's model, every other hot rod old school fifteen flies way fast. Fun, but. This includes an la 15 powered Magician 15.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2018, 02:33:59 PM »
Hi Brett,
When I designed the Skyray 35 I built at least about dozen and tried a number of different engines.  Some were set up for slow combat, slow rat, sport and training, and stunt.  The FP 20 & 25 are great combinations for stunt and we all thank you for this simple set up.

The Skyray 35 that I built with the OS .15 III was not what I would call a perfect stunt model, but it was more than just for flying a flat lapping model, in calm condition it would do all the stunts when flown carefully.  I'm sure if you cut the wing down one rib bay and reset the wing rib spacing it would allow the LA .15 to do pretty well.

Later,
Mikey

Online Dennis Moritz

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2018, 05:55:34 PM »
If weíre talking baffle piston 15s, why not an old Enya. Ones Iíve seen run well. Theyíre cheap and plentiful. Thereís two common models. One marked III, one marked IV. The mark IV is a bigger casting.


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Offline paw080

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Re: Plane for OS 15 LA
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2018, 06:20:44 PM »
What's a good sport/stunt plane with a built up wing for an LA 15. I'm looking at the PDQ Flying Clown but I think it will pull more so, maybe something about 300 Sq. In?

Thanks,
Motorman 8)

Hi Motorman, why not go for the Gusto....Build a full sized Flite Streak for your LA .15.

We have flown several Streaks powered with .15's. There is simply no better flying Stunt

Trainer than the Streak.  When the Streak first was introduced in the middle fifties; Aldrich

suggested powering the Streak with a K&B .15 glow engine for an excellent Stunt Trainer. Your OS LA .15 should produce

quite a bit more power than the suggested Torp green head .15.    You may have to fly on 55-57' lines,

and you get to play with the CG to trim the model to be stable yet, out turn anything but a

Combat ship.  You also will find that the model can yield different kinds of performance, depending

upon propeller diameter and pitch. Seriously, give the Streak a try, and good luck.  :D


Tony G


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