Brett Buck, easier to reference your name than punch out the quotes. There’s no question that people are going to try it. We know for sure that at least one; Doug Moon is definitely going to try them, and maybe at least, a half a dozen more. Doug Moon stated quite eloquently, as to why he felt they would work AND not only that, but had the capability to improve existing planes as well.
My statements go to the issue as to the predicted outcome. That is to say, I don’t think they will. If I am wrong it will not kill me. But as Doug endeavored to state why he thinks they will work, I think it only fair to state WHY I think we haven’t seen them prior, AND why I don’t think they will.
We know where VG’s DO work. But are they universal in full-scale aviation? The answer is no. The closest scenario I could come to, as to what we do, is full-scale aerobatics. I know-I know, planes don’t scale, Reynolds numbers etc. But that is as close as I come for my argument.
Full-scale aerobatic planes do violent maneuvers at relatively slow speed, under a comprehensive set of rules. Control line stunt ships do violent maneuvers at relatively slow speed, under a comprehensive set of rules. Both events allow for a degree of freedom in airframe design. Yet like us, they have butted up against their rules and flight regime and consequently, you see the same CAPS, Sukhoi’s, EXTRA’s etc.
In neither event do you see VG’s being used to any extent. I made a point to examine the planes at the most recent FAI World Championships, and I still didn’t see them. VG’s, or boundary layer devices appear to like certain parameters, to see effectiveness. What we do and, what they do, is analogous to air molecules doing “hard time”. That is, from the time we go into the reverse wingover, what we are doing is “dirty deeds done dirt cheap”. The violent nature of the maneuvers, AND the relative lack of letup, (that is important) tears the crap out of most boundary layer equation.
Consequently, what we do, and what they do is similar. That is, they try to develop wing sections that maintain lift at as high an alpha, for as long as possible before it dies. What they do past that point, is the same thing we do-brute power!! Doug Moon may be right, but I strongly believe that VG’s can’t hang in this environment. Moreover, it is not necessary for them to do so.
Like our full-scale aerobatic counterparts, we don’t need high speed. Consequently, them and us, can use relatively thick sections to get that lift. And then, use that brute power MP14, Merlin 75 on pipe, to take over when the lift decides it’s time to bounce. That is what we have ACTUALLY been doing. The issue of boundary layer and lift gets exed out with shear muscle.
Lets make the scenario worse-much worse. We have a typical stunt contest, but now we have a very windy day. The air molecules are no longer doing hard time. Now, we are talking capitol punishment. We have violent maneuvers, kicking the crap out of the air molecules, AND we have strong wind blowing all over the wing and bouncing the plane around. The Orientals with the Fox 35’s start to fall away, and the big guns start firing. Sophisticated boundary layer devices in my belief, will not help you here. We are deep into the world of heavy lift and very powerful motors. 650-700 sq’s, big muscle in the nose of one sort or another, time after time, seems to get it.
As to the personal attacks, there is ONLY one person on this forum that knows me well and that is Jose Modesto. He has known me since early childhood. Suffice to say, most if not all the people on this forum would not take the risks with their life to pursue this hobby that I have.
Mr. Buck, close your eyes and try to imagine the worst nightmare health-wise you would think of, and you wouldn’t get close. Let me put it this way, hopefully, you and I will meet face to face in competition, but, if and when we do, you will have no conception as to the sacrifice it took on my part, for us to be going head to head.