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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Randy Ryan on March 05, 2013, 04:17:30 PM
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Why when they make military movies do they NOT teach the actors a proper salute??? RRRRRRR
Sorry, had to get that off my chest..
Think I'll go work on a model or something.
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For the same reason that any major event has to be won by the USA even if they didn't take part.
EG: Argo,
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And using totally inaccurate Mk's of aircraft for the period (Or in some cases not even the correct aircraft). Don't get me started on the liberties taken with the basic laws of aerodynamics since CGI became "The In Thing".
TTFN
John.
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Why don't they bother with basic realism at all? The two fields of endeavor that I know, and that seem to show up in movies a lot, are physics and engineering on the one hand, and firefighting and general emergency services on the other (second-hand, through my dad and brother). They rarely get either of those right, in any sense.
I doubt they get anything right, when it comes right down to it.
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And sometimes it's on purpose it seems. In the new movie "Lincoln", they got the vote for the amendment to end slavery incorrect. They have Conneticut voting against it when in fact they voted for it, and it seems that they did it that way on purpose for some reason. I guess the purpose of the people who make the films is to entertain, not teach, but that is where a WAY too large portion of people get their "facts" from these days. And don't get me started on this CGI stuff. Just doesn't do it for me. For example, the movie "Flyboys" was in no way in the same league at "The Blue Max" in my opinion. And it probably cost ten times as much to produce, maybe more.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Why when they make military movies do they NOT teach the actors a proper salute??? RRRRRRR
Sorry, had to get that off my chest..
Think I'll go work on a model or something.
Hell naw...when they make movies about anything; they don't teach them anything about reality. It all started with James Dean, Marlon Brando, and the Hell's Angels...hollywood is the biggest exaggerating entity next to the news media that ever existed! ;D
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+1 on the CGI thing. I would much rather watch a movie from the '30's or '40's where we just KNEW as kids that Buck Rogers space ship was a model, but we appreciated it for what is WAS and what it represented. Today's CGI makes me think I'm watching cartoons, not even good ones. And while we are at it, how come you hear every spell casing hitting the floor when someone shoots? Arrrg!
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Not a big CGI fan but loved "Flyboys"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex2PZv2mTDQ
Marcus
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There IS a proper military salute. However, in my mil experience, I saw just about every perturbation of the mil salute! It was sort of a "personalization thing". Just as young men liked to "customize" their cars, haircuts, etc.
Nobody complained.
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An interesting fact that we were taught in basic training was the history of saluting. It goes back to the days of old when armoured knights would lift their visor so they could be recognised.
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One other thing. I wish that where and when ever our National Anthem is sung the singer would have to pass a singing test to see if they can actually sing,they know the words,are they high or drunk and to be sure they know the song is about our country----not them.
Tempest
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Some of today's movies are made by young members of the generation depicted in the attached picture. What could anyone expect of them?
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Not a big CGI fan but loved "Flyboys"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex2PZv2mTDQ
Marcus
Great movie, but watch the control surfaces on the planes, they're terribly uncoordinated.
RRRRRRRRR
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There IS a proper military salute. However, in my mil experience, I saw just about every perturbation of the mil salute! It was sort of a "personalization thing". Just as young men liked to "customize" their cars, haircuts, etc.
Nobody complained.
Yeah but some are just ridiculous, like in Pearl Harbor where one of the fighter pilots was being sent to Kaliuii (splg?), his salute looked like he was shading his eyes, like when we were kids playing Army.
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How many times have you heard "over and out"? Fact is these are two separate and contradictory communications. Over means over to you to talk to me. Out means I not listening. HB~>
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Hollywood and the actors/actresses that infest that industry are nothing but make-believe. An actors whole life is to portray things that aren't real. Unfortunately, with a few notable exceptions, they bring that same make-believe mindset to the table when it comes to real life, as evidenced by the Hollywood support given to political entities. A world of untruth and make-believe. :(
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Hollywood and the actors/actresses that infest that industry are nothing but make-believe. An actors whole life is to portray things that aren't real. Unfortunately, with a few notable exceptions, they bring that same make-believe mindset to the table when it comes to real life, as evidenced by the Hollywood support given to political entities. A world of untruth and make-believe. :(
Well said, Bill!
Despite being raised in a USAF family, I learned to salute in ROTC. Properly done, it will give a case of tennis elbow if repeated too much! H^^ Steve
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Back in 1958, in Basic Training at Ft. Leonard Wood, MO, if we didn't execute a salute properly, the Platoon Sgt. would've slapped us silly. (Yes, I saw it happen.)
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Back in 1958, in Basic Training at Ft. Leonard Wood, MO, if we didn't execute a salute properly, the Platoon Sgt. would've slapped us silly. (Yes, I saw it happen.)
Well Mike they were still doing that at Ft Lost-in-the-Woods in 1961 when I was there. Sometimes the slapping was done with a closed fist. Not kidding...and furthermore nobody even considered complaining!
Times change.
Randy Cuberly
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Yeah, well, you should have seen our punishment in Rotcorps! LL~ LL~ LL~ Steve
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Are you guys saying that Lincoln wasn't a real vampire killer! Oh mannnn!! H^^
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The salutes are so sloppy they're not even salutes at all.
When we had mission timing at 12:30 AM or 0030 in military time it was always pronounced;
"Oh dark thirty", never "Zero dark thirty". One purpose of the slang was to confirm that they really meant the middle of the night and not 30 minutes after noon.
Those Hollywood weenies never flew a night mission.
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Since we are all ranting about Hollywood, let me have a go.
Why is it that I can watch a 1940s black & white movie on TCM and understand every word that's said but when I watch a TV program today, I can only understand about 1/2 of what they are saying. The actors mumble like their mouths are full of marbles and speak so fast that if I didn't have a DVR which allows me to roll the show back and listen again and again, I'd miss most of the story. Whole sentences sound like one long mumbled word and to make things worse, the sound engineers include so much background noise that speech is unintelligible.
Is it like all kinds of other education shortfalls, have they eliminated speech, elocution and diction classes from acting school curriculum? Do actors these days even take acting classes?
Orv.
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Well said, Bill!
Despite being raised in a USAF family, I learned to salute in ROTC. Properly done, it will give a case of tennis elbow if repeated too much! H^^ Steve
True, very true Mike.
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I took Army basic and artillery training at Ft. Chaffee, Arkansas, 1957-58. At that time a sargent would neither slap, hit, or curse a trainee. Our basic training Company Sargent cursed one of the trainees and was transferred to Alaska in about a weeks time. We were told not to say sir to a sargent. I was fortunate in that all my sargents, other than the one mentioned, were highly professional.
In Basic, RA, US, NG, and AR were all in the same platoon. In the second eight, we AR and NG were segregated, which was a good thing because there were problems in the other platoons. We would have inspection and the company would be confined to base. Our platoon sargent would go over and get our passes and we would go to town.
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Some of today's movies are made by young members of the generation depicted in the attached picture. What could anyone expect of them?
That's Funny!! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Since we are all ranting about Hollywood, let me have a go.
Why is it that I can watch a 1940s black & white movie on TCM and understand every word that's said but when I watch a TV program today, I can only understand about 1/2 of what they are saying. The actors mumble like their mouths are full of marbles and speak so fast that if I didn't have a DVR which allows me to roll the show back and listen again and again, I'd miss most of the story. Whole sentences sound like one long mumbled word and to make things worse, the sound engineers include so much background noise that speech is unintelligible.
Is it like all kinds of other education shortfalls, have they eliminated speech, elocution and diction classes from acting school curriculum? Do actors these days even take acting classes?
Orv.
Today's actors have never been "Stage" trained like they were in the 40's-50's. With that said, movies today are not intended to be seen on TV, but on large indoor theaters. Dolby sound is used in all applications and the compression of Dolby to fit a TV screen muddles the sound. Actors and singers today do not have the talent to project their voices to fill a theater, thus by using a mike stuffed up their noses and amplified they can be heard. In many cases the singers are only "lip syncing" the sound is coming from backstage. All this is the result of Hollywood loosing its "Contract" fleet of stage trained actors that were then fine tuned and trained on site.
Joe
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Now I know why I can't watch any of these stupid shows on TV. Someone says a word or two and then there is laughter. Another person says something and then laughter. It goes like this fr the whole show and I look around at the family to ask what is so funny. I would say 99.9% of these shows would never make it with a live audience and no laugh track. My channels are Speed, the ESPN's, National Geographic and History. I almost forgot the channels that carry the professional so called wrestling.
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After a couple of deaths in marine basic training due to overzealous drill sargents, they are no longer allowed to touch a recruit. But verbal abuse is still permitted.
Also, most people would not see an AM-62 "Zero" in the movies and recognize it as a "tricked-out" North American AT-6. (the dihedral break and wheel wells can't be disguised)
Floyd
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Well they are just movies and not documentaries. Although some documentaries I've seen are pretty absurd. H^^
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I totally agree with most of the comments everyone has in here. However, there are some directors that go to the extreme to capture the history. "Saving Private Ryan" comes to mind. The director hired soldiers survivors from "D" day to give some experience in the filming. When the beach landing parts were shown to them, they walked out crying. The sounds and depiction was too much from them. Another realistic to history director is Ron Howard. But yes, most movies are just that, movies for entertainment. If anyone wants to know history, don't go to a movie!!! HB~> HB~> HB~> n~ n~ READ A BOOK!!! And for that, read several to get a solid recount.
H^^
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Now I know why I can't watch any of these stupid shows on TV. Someone says a word or two and then there is laughter. Another person says something and then laughter. It goes like this fr the whole show and I look around at the family to ask what is so funny. I would say 99.9% of these shows would never make it with a live audience and no laugh track. My channels are Speed, the ESPN's, National Geographic and History. I almost forgot the channels that carry the professional so called wrestling.
That's me too Doc....they called me a party pooper for so long, I thought it was my real name. One time my wife, kids, myself, and her parents went out to a movie theater.....something I never do.....and I laughed my butt clean off, and the funny part was; nobody in the whole theater was laughing except me. When they did laugh, my wife claimed they were laughing at me. I never went again! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Couldn't resist...
Mig 28 "F5"...LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUZxSf_P2r0
Marcus
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Although I enjoyed the movie very much, one scene in Battleship got me. When five guys were moving a 16" shell. The movie mentioned that it weighed over a thousand pounds. Well it does...WAY over, as in about 2700 pounds. But then, it added a lot to the sci-fi movie and, as I said before, I liked it.
George
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After a couple of deaths in marine basic training due to overzealous drill sargents, they are no longer allowed to touch a recruit. But verbal abuse is still permitted.
Also, most people would not see an AM-62 "Zero" in the movies and recognize it as a "tricked-out" North American AT-6. (the dihedral break and wheel wells can't be disguised)
Floyd
Hi Floyd,
That would be an A6-M2 Zero (an early version, the later ones were the A6-M5).
Bill
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Although I enjoyed the movie very much, one scene in Battleship got me. When five guys were moving a 16" shell. The movie mentioned that it weighed over a thousand pounds. Well it does...WAY over, as in about 2700 pounds. But then, it added a lot to the sci-fi movie and, as I said before, I liked it.
George
A 16" shell? Or a 16" projectile? I remember certain 16 inchers, but they had no shell, only the projectile, and several silk bags of powder. When it fired, and the breech block re-opened, there was nothing in the barrel that even resembled an empty shell ;D ;D ;D :##
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One other thing. I wish that where and when ever our National Anthem is sung the singer would have to pass a singing test to see if they can actually sing,they know the words,are they high or drunk and to be sure they know the song is about our country----not them.
Tempest
I'm with you on that one, Bart. They have no idea what an anthem is. I cannot for the life of me see how anyone could believe that representing one's country with respect involves whining in put-on agony and swooping into notes as though there is no such thing as pitch. I cringe every time they introduce an "award winning", platinum-record singer at a NASCAR race, although Tony George apparently has the worst taste of all. While I'm at it, I'd register a vote for using real musicians on screen. Some lead-role characters really damage their impact by looking so bogus and ineffectual, when old movies demonstrate ways around that, and why the heck can't background musicians be real? . Once in a while, you get the real thing in a talented actor. But yes, the lack of theater work really limits some. Oh, yeah, and playing background music LOUDER than the voices, especially on TV, really hurts the enjoyment - 'hate to caption it. Whew!
Some really old movies had real pilots in real planes, at least one classic even with actors who they taught to fly and were filmed piloting (with "safety pilots" tucked under behind). 'loved "The Blue Max" too.
In answer to Randy's original comment, I really don't think some producers and directors know what is important. I'll never forget a TV episode in which the plot hinged on a character having gone to a music store to have a guitar string installed! I wonder how many TV/film-industry guitar playing friends the writers and producers had to ignore to come up with that one.
SK
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Sad thing about the movies, our children and grandchildren except it as truth. n1
Just my two cents worth.
Blessings
Allen
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Sad thing about the movies, our children and grandchildren except it as truth. n1
Just my two cents worth.BlessingsAllen
Allen,
You left out the "NEWS!" That's every day!
Well, at least on some channels. ;D
Blessings,
Charles
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I took Army basic and artillery training at Ft. Chaffee, Arkansas, 1957-58. At that time a sargent would neither slap, hit, or curse a trainee. Our basic training Company Sargent cursed one of the trainees and was transferred to Alaska in about a weeks time. We were told not to say sir to a sargent. I was fortunate in that all my sargents, other than the one mentioned, were highly professional.
In Basic, RA, US, NG, and AR were all in the same platoon. In the second eight, we AR and NG were segregated, which was a good thing because there were problems in the other platoons. We would have inspection and the company would be confined to base. Our platoon sargent would go over and get our passes and we would go to town.
Jim:
I don't know what time period you were talking about, but it was a little different in the Marine Corps in 1960. We had a PFC in our outfit that was a real screw up. I don't know what he did, but our Gunnery Seargent stood him up in front of the Company and cut his stripes off with a double edge razor blade. He took sleeves and all and, yes, he cut his arms in the process. Blood running down both arms. I kinda admired the Gunny for how he handled the razor blade. Ah, the good old days.
Jim Fruit
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Yep, nothing like a little brutality and public humiliation to make a person want to conform. H^^
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Jim:
I don't know what time period you were talking about, but it was a little different in the Marine Corps in 1960. We had a PFC in our outfit that was a real screw up. I don't know what he did, but our Gunnery Seargent stood him up in front of the Company and cut his stripes off with a double edge razor blade. He took sleeves and all and, yes, he cut his arms in the process. Blood running down both arms. I kinda admired the Gunny for how he handled the razor blade. Ah, the good old days.
Jim Fruit
Not many people left these days that can relate to the critical need to ingrain strict discipline into the soldiers that would be heading out for Nam. I hear all the time how brutal "torture was used" on terrorist POWS recently. Well I got news for everybody...we went through some pretty serious torture ourselves, including waterboarding....in TRAINING! The hardcore special forces guys that trained us also beat the crap out of us to try and get more than our name rank and serial number. I learned that escaping POW training came with a reward...no; it was not an orange and a tuna fish samwich...it was more torture. But we were trained to escape at all cost. When that Huey flew over the POW camp and had the spotlights on, and there was an American flag on it's belly....I truly felt as though I'd been rescued from the enemy. Am I supposed to be telling these things? probly not! ROFLMBO ;D
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My time period was 1957-58 as I stated.
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So then the modern soldiers that don't go through this are inferior to your oldschool soldiers?
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My time period was 1957-58 as I stated.
I am sorry I missed that Jim. At my advanced age, I seem to only pick up on about half of the details any more. Semper Fi.
JHF
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Mr. Byles. Yes, A6-M2... sort of like this one.
RO-Jett 76 stunter with retract gear.
Floyd
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WOW!
I love it!
You got machine guns too!!
Charles
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So then the modern soldiers that don't go through this are inferior to your oldschool soldiers?
Probably the reason there is so much PTSD in today's military. In the old days, they got over it during training, through training. D>K Steve
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Yes, Charles. And I would advise you to stand a little off to one side.
F.C.
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So then the modern soldiers that don't go through this are inferior to your oldschool soldiers?
Left-wing Social Workers wouldn't have a clue, since they most likely never served in the military and thus have no clue.
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Amazed where this has gone. My intial statement was, in part, supposed to be ironic humor. It amazes my the detail they will go to in making bomb blasts just so, uniforms reasonably correct, scenary detail perfect, recreation of battles to the letter and many other details yet miss some other things that are so plainly visible to those that were in the military.
On the other side of the coin there were Hollywood pranks perpetrated on the public as well. In the movie "Wake Island" is one I wonder how many people caught. Willian Bendix is a mud Marine and Robert Preston is his buddy. Bendix is Pvt Aloysius K Randall and he has a little dog named Skipper (supposedly the only dog on the island). After an attach Skipper is nowhere to be found. Finally one of his buddies comes and tells him to close his eyes and leads him to a pile of debris where, wonder of wonders, there is Skipper with puppies!!!! Pvt Randall pulls her out and a couple of puppies and holding the dog under its front legs turns toward the camera and says something like "Skipper, how did this happen?" Indeed, Skipper is Skip, undoubtedly a fully mature male dog and Bendix even semi-smirks at the camera. In this movie they also painted Aeronca L's as Zeros, weird.
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I know how to salute! I will prove it next time I see you! H^^
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I know how to salute! I will prove it next time I see you! H^^
Gotta be in a movie John!!! Hey, how you doing man??
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Gotta be in a movie John!!! Hey, how you doing man??
Very well and thanks for asking! And I could not agree more...@#$% poor representation of military life in general. You better know how to salute an officer properly in short order or forget the rest....
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Funny this subject should come up when I'm in the middle of a JAG marathon. Over the last couple weeks (with a little help from the wife) I've managed to acquire all 10 seasons of JAG on CD. Being an old Navy Airedale I really liked the show when it was running and am presently enjoying watching the whole series from start to finish, Just started season 7.
I could really tear it apart on several issues, Carrier operations, uniforms etc. It is just entertainment and even some of the mistakes add to the entertainment value because some are kinda funny. One thing I really like is no durn commercials.
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Well, I'd guess that at least half the Hollywood Stars are in Venezuela this week for Hugo's funeral. Wish they'd stay there. **) Steve
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Well, I'd guess that at least half the Hollywood Stars are in Venezuela this week for Hugo's funeral. Wish they'd stay there. **) Steve
I'll second that Steve!
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Improper salutes in a movie just might be realistict. I was in for 2 years and saw my share of improper salutes.
John