Pearl Harbor Day

[Bill Morell]

Never forget, never forgive.

[Gary Dowler]

Not to be critical, but this is an honest question.  Given that every last person who was involved with any aspect of the ordering, planning or enactment of the attack is, like Imperial Japan herself, dead and gone, Who would you presume to withhold forgiveness from?

Gary

II have no intention of arguing about anything, I am simply curious.

[Bill Morell]

I guess by your reasoning since the Trade Center guys are dead we should forgive them too? Not while I'm alive.

[Randy Cuberly]

I think the Idea of never forget, never forgive is simply directed at the potential for something similar to occur again.  Not that I believe  we have anything to fear from Japan.  Japan is currently one of our best and most worthy allies.

However we should never forget that we as a nation still have many enemies that would do the same or worse if given the opportunity.

Not all of these enemies are outside of our borders.  We even have politicians that wish to do away with our constitution and change our form of government to be some form of  Totalitarianism.

I think the words "Never forget, Never forgive" have a broader meaning and more importance than ever before! 

I do not think that they apply  to the Japanese people directly but to the simple evil in the attack itself. 

We should never forget and be always vigilant that such a thing can happen and never forgive the inherent evil in such an act!

Randy Cuberly

[Bill Morell]

Thank you  Randy! As always, very well written.

[Ken Culbertson]

I think the Idea of never forget, never forgive is simply directed at the potential for something similar to occur again.  Not that I believe  we have anything to fear from Japan.  Japan is currently one of our best and most worthy allies.

However we should never forget that we as a nation still have many enemies that would do the same or worse if given the opportunity.

Not all of these enemies are outside of our borders.  We even have politicians that wish to do away with our constitution and change our form of government to be some form of  Totalitarianism.

I think the words "Never forget, Never forgive" have a broader meaning and more importance than ever before! 

I do not think that they apply  to the Japanese people directly but to the simple evil in the attack itself. 

We should never forget and be always vigilant that such a thing can happen and never forgive the inherent evil in such an act!

Randy Cuberly

Well stated - I have had the privilege to know some of the decedents of the planners of the Pearl Harbor attack.  Many of them were very much opposed to both the war and the way it was started but, to openly oppose your leaders is simply something a Japanese soldier, regardless of rank,  would not have even considered in 1941.

Ken

[Gary Dowler]

Bill, sounds like all we have is a minor difference in our terminology.  In that case, I am very happy to see that another patriotic individual made the effort to post a reminder of this day!!  Thank you!    (though you were 18 minutes late to the party.....LOL!!!)

Gary

[Brett Buck]

I guess by your reasoning since the Trade Center guys are dead we should forgive them too? Not while I'm alive.

    Gary's right, there is no one left to forgive, in either case. The people that planned or supported 9/11 are another story, they are still around and still deserve what is coming to them.

     I can only speak for myself, but I can only hold grudges against people who actually did something to me, or someone or something I love and care about. I don't believe in cultural guilt.

   The current people of Japan are fine and honorable, and our staunch allies, they are no more responsible for Pearl Harbor or anything associated with it than I am for slavery.

     Brett

[Bill Morell]

Bill, sounds like all we have is a minor difference in our terminology.  In that case, I am very happy to see that another patriotic individual made the effort to post a reminder of this day!!  Thank you!    (though you were 18 minutes late to the party.....LOL!!!)

Gary

Works for me. Since my Dad was a Pearl Harbor Survivor this date always  engraved in my mind.

[Mike Griffin]

I have had the honor and privilege to get to know several of the few surviving WW2 veterans.  Because of the Civil Air Patrol connection with the WW2 Museum located here in New Orleans, I have had the chance to become involved with Gary Sinise and his foundation who bring WW2 Veterans to the museum to honor them. 

Two in particular that I have talked with personally, made me realize that these men literally saved the world from evil.  One is the sole surviving member who flew with Jimmy Doolittle and the other flew the hump in Burma.  When you sit and talk with them about what they went through, it will make your blood run cold and send chills up your spine.  The sacrifice that these men and millions more like them made, is unimaginable. 

We owe them a debt that can never be repaid. 

As a Vet myself, I knew where Bill was coming from and how he meant it. 

Lets just hope that if evil like that ever shows itself again, that we will respond as these men did.  They are the benchmark.

Mike

[Larry Wong]

I agree with Brett, it's not the cultural  of the people in general. I knew several that we honor that Was in the 442 they were great Americans as the wind talkers and the Taskee airman ..

[Steve Helmick]

Well said, Randy Cuberly. We need to remember Pearl Harbor and the Twin Towers and all the other attacks.

Personally, I think every calendar should have a red line or string starting at December 7, leading over to August 6 and August 9. "Mess with the bull, you get the horn" sort of implication. The wimps have already removed the August dates from our calendars as being not very PC, and that is total BS. Learn from history, and never forget it.  Steve

[Scott Richlen]

Never Forget,

but also never forget Matthew 6:14

[john e. holliday]

How can some of us ever forget and then try to forgive when some just keep on trying to ruin the world or have it their way.   I wasn't here yet when Pearl Harbor happened yet.  But what I have seen lately some of our politicians would do like has been done in the past in some countries, burn all the history books and photos.   The border conflict right now is putting money in some bodies pocket and the politicians that don't want the wall built needs all the illegal caravaners delivered to their door for safe keeping.  As was being pointed out on one of the talks show there are people being killed,  robbed and raped by illegals and all they get is a little jail time if any and maybe a slap on the hands.  I still believe if a person is killed intentionally or raped their assailant life should end right then and there.  No plea bargaining.  I lost a great friend because he was shot point blank in the face.  The murderer only got 4 years because the individual didn't tell him he had a small revolver on his person.   So I ay never get past the so called pearly gates because of my beleifs.   Why is it cheaper to keep a murderer n prison for life instead of using a piece of rope or an injection.   


Administrator if this is too harsh you may remove it.  But I guess if certain people can steal, cheat and get people eliminated to continue their political ambition what can I say.

[Fredvon4]

Randy C save me a lot of typing... exactly my take

This world is still very dangerous

Iran is a very profound MORTAL enemy
N Korea has the potential, but right now I think Don  T has let little rocket man know we WILL DESTROY the entire regime
China is very keenly paying attention to this as is Putin and Russia....

So Yes ---Never again, Never forgive ---and Never Forget !!!  are absolutely part of my personal awareness and mantra....

[Bill Morell]

Randy C save me a lot of typing... exactly my take

This world is still very dangerous

Iran is a very profound MORTAL enemy
N Korea has the potential, but right now I think Don  T has let little rocket man know we WILL DESTROY the entire regime
China is very keenly paying attention to this as is Putin and Russia....

So Yes ---Never again, Never forgive ---and Never Forget !!!  are absolutely part of my personal awareness and mantra....

So good to have people on here that understand my point.

[Brett Buck]

So good to have people on here that understand my point.

     Could someone please explain it, then? What does a lack of forgiveness mean to the people today? Who is it that you don't want to forgive? Does that mean you hold a grudge against, say, the people of Japan? None of whom have done anything to us at all?
 
    You don't need to tell me, of all people, that we still have enemies and still have very real, very clearly defined enemies, who should be opposed and defeated with all necessary effort. I as at least a contributor to the defeat of another even more implacable enemy, and we ground them into the dirt because they just couldn't hope to counter us.

 I don't see how that applies to Pearl Harbor, out forefathers did identify the enemies, and worked hard at extraordinary heroic effort to defeat them, and succeeded at extraordinary cost. Virtually everyone involved with it is dead, and depending on your religious beliefs, other entities are judging their actions now.

    Brett

[Mike Griffin]

Brett is making a very important point here.  In my previous post I related that I have had personal conversations with two WW2 veterans who flew bombers during WW2.  I can tell you without a doubt, that they do not hold any grudges or hate toward the people of Japan today.  They did what they had to do when they were called on and if you could have listened in on what they were telling me during some of their missions you would know what extreme prejudice really meant. 

Brett used the example, or made reference ,  earlier about blacks and liberals (blacks and liberals are my words, not Brett's)  trying to hold us (white people alive today) accountable for slavery.  I don't know of a white man alive today that had a damn thing to do with slavery and I don't feel guilty about it all.  It was wrong and it was ended, in this country but still practiced in many places in the world.


The distinction between fighting Japan in WW2 and fighting terroist who are still very active are two different things. 


New Orleans is full of Vietnamese that came here to escape the tyrnany of Communism.  I do not hold them accountable or hold grudges against them for when I was involved in that war. 


Ok,... I am done.

Mike

[Bill Morell]

Me too, have a good day everyone.

[Brett Buck]

Brett used the example, or made reference ,  earlier about blacks and liberals (blacks and liberals are my words, not Brett's)  trying to hold us (white people alive today) accountable for slavery. 

    To be entirely clear, feeling like it was a terrible injustice and condemned by both God and by the founding principles of the United States, is different from feeling personally accountable for it. I would note that the abolitionist movement was started by fundamentalist Christians and largely politically supported by constitutional conservatives on moral and founding principles of republic. Slavery was intrinsically incompatible with the moral underpinnings of this country - and resulted in the deaths of 650,000 people when the issue came to a head.

No one today either supported it, nor fought to eliminate it, either. There is no one left to either forgive or blame for doing it in the first place, nor is there anyone left that can claim they fought it, either. More-or-less the same with World War II, a few are still alive on both sides, and it's fair to hold an opinion on their actions, good or bad. Every once in a while, someone digs up a concentration camp guard - and it sure doesn't seem like anyone has forgiven them, nor should they.

   We must recall and learn from our history, and we should have learned a lot from both Pearl Harbor and 9/11, and for the most part, we did.

    But even more important is noting that we are supposed to, at a very fundamental level, believe in *personal independence* with the *personal responsiblity* that comes with it. What an *individual* says or does is *their* business - not their "culture", their "race", not their "gender", not their "religious affiliation". Thinking otherwise has led to the worst and most heinous injustices humanity has ever committed.

      Brett