Pattern Progress -

[Brent Williams]

For fun, I thought I would upload a few videos of my current level of progress with flying the stunt pattern.  These were taken on Sept 3.  At this point, Sept 2017, I have only been flying the complete pattern since Oct 2016 [(11 months (-4 months of winter )].   Every aspect needs plenty of work, but it's coming along.  Lots of good coaching at these flying sessions from Gordan Delaney, Jim Rhoades and Roger Kramar.  Hard to tell from the videos, but I have been trying to implement some of the recent info that Brett Buck posted about pattern shapes. 

Ran out of fuel in the second video.   It felt like it was on a good run, but it's thirsty.  Time for a larger fuel tank.  4oz is too small for this LA46.
Third video was a bit too fast and I was concerned about the possibility of running out of fuel again.

The plane details: 56oz, 600sq.in., LA46 w/ LA25 .257 venturi, OS needle valve, APC 11.5x4, 10% nitro, 24%oil.  63ft .015 lines (60ft eye to eye)

[john e. holliday]

Watch the videos yourself.  You will see where you need to work on the maneuvers.  Also learn to count laps.  Remember the easy maneuvers are where most people like my self give up points.   If you have nothing but grass to fly on, you might consider larger diameter wheels.   By the way you have me beat an I have been trying since the 70's to fly the pattern.   I think Gordo has seen me fly a few times.   

[Target]

Looks like the plane and the engine are working well.
I cannot fly that good either, but if you are looking for feed back, I would say one thing that appears to me is that the third corner of the hourglass isn't tight enough, and the down leg therefore looks a little too vertical... But it's really hard to tell from the video, it could be an illusion.
First turn of one of the square loops was more than 90* it looked like in the second video.
Keep at it! Looks like you are doing well to me.
Is that your own design plane?

Vr,
Target

[Brett Buck]

\
I cannot fly that good either, but if you are looking for feed back, I would say one thing that appears to me is that the third corner of the hourglass isn't tight enough, and the down leg therefore looks a little too vertical..

 
     The problem here is similar to the hourglass thread from a few weeks ago- the climbing leg was not nearly long enough. It needs to go 30% further so the airplane goes overhead instead of at 75 degrees. In this case, the top was a reasonable angle and length, but without the extra space by flying it all the way to the top, there was no way to turn it soon enough to get back to where he started.

    Brett

[Brett Buck]

For fun, I thought I would upload a few videos of my current level of progress with flying the stunt pattern.  These were taken on Sept 3.  At this point, Sept 2017, I have only been flying the complete pattern since Oct 2016 [(11 months (-4 months of winter )].   Every aspect needs plenty of work, but it's coming along.  Lots of good coaching at these flying sessions from Gordan Delaney, Jim Rhoades and Roger Kramar.  Hard to tell from the videos, but I have been trying to implement some of the recent info that Brett Buck posted about pattern shapes.

    You are looking pretty good to me.   One thing I see is that the maneuvers are generally being done off to your right. Your shoulders are maybe 45 degrees to the axis of the maneuver. I would suggest trying to get your hand right in front of you when doing the maneuvers.

      The reason you are having problems with the descending leg of your hourglass is described above.  Neither of them go all the way to the top. I also suspect you might be tilting your head to the right on both the hourglass, and vertical 8, because you are "x"-ing the intersection on the way down in the vertical 8, and not getting the descending leg of the hourglass at the right angle (too vertical).

     Definitely get more tank, because on the slower flight, some of your shapes were excellent, particularly the square 8 on the second flight was very good indeed. On the faster flights, it was clear that it was leaning out towards the end, which suggests that you need to go to uniflow, or if it is supposed to be already, there's an air leak somewhere. Otherwise the engine appears to run very well and seems to be pulling the airplane around nicely, even at that altitude.

    Very well done.

    Brett

[M Spencer]

Thought the Clover on the b one was pretty good , artistic even & well spaced . Homogonous ! rather than joined together .

Can help top ' pick a spot ' like that purple bush downwind center , If you Place your few apart square to it ,
Pre Flight you eye up the place , put arms out sideways for orientation

With the feet a few feet apart , unless youve been run over or something , the natural inclination is ' to center ' .

Later On you can emulate Jim Casselle or a football Fwd if you like .

[Brent Williams]

    You are looking pretty good to me.   One thing I see is that the maneuvers are generally being done off to your right. Your shoulders are maybe 45 degrees to the axis of the maneuver. I would suggest trying to get your hand right in front of you when doing the maneuvers.

      The reason you are having problems with the descending leg of your hourglass is described above.  Neither of them go all the way to the top. I also suspect you might be tilting your head to the right on both the hourglass, and vertical 8, because you are "x"-ing the intersection on the way down in the vertical 8, and not getting the descending leg of the hourglass at the right angle (too vertical).

     Definitely get more tank, because on the slower flight, some of your shapes were excellent, particularly the square 8 on the second flight was very good indeed. On the faster flights, it was clear that it was leaning out towards the end, which suggests that you need to go to uniflow, or if it is supposed to be already, there's an air leak somewhere. Otherwise the engine appears to run very well and seems to be pulling the airplane around nicely, even at that altitude.

    Very well done.

    Brett

Thanks for the good feedback Brett!  I appreciate your evaluation and kind comments.   In reviewing the flights and my style in general, I do believe that I  am not standing square to the maneuvers.  I have been trying to figure out where to place "me" and after your post and some discussion with Gordan, it looks like I have some very specific things to address.   I will try and adjust my body position next time I go fly.   Also, I will work to bring the vertical 8 and hourglass up to 12 o'clock.

- Brent.

[Shug Emery]

Very nice work on The Pattern. I know the work it entails to get it down. Then there is the quest for constant improvement.
Looks like you have some good feedback from some great flyers.
Whoooooo Buddy))))
Shug

[Brent Williams]

Looks like the plane and the engine are working well.
Is that your own design plane?

Vr,
Target

Nope, not my design.   I'm not sure if it was from a kit or just an unnamed original design.  As the story goes, this plane originated from someone down in southern California in the mid 90's or so.  It made its way up to Utah where it has changed hands a few times.  I received the plane as a gift from Gordan to help improve my flying.  It had been cut into several times for trim adjustments, so the fuselage needed painting and I had to redrill the mounts for the LA46.   I simply fogged it with satin black rustolem+activator.  The maple engine beams were quite oil soaked and after several flights the brass inserts+JB weld would just spin.  The beams cracked during this repair, so I took the easy route and attacked it with my sharp japanese hand saw... so the plane now sports a very un-lovely, lopped off nose with a plastic RC engine mount mounted out in the breeze and some stunt-rated rubber bands holding the remaining cowl on the plane.  Though it is now very utilitarian looking, the engine run quality improved quite significantly after this engine mount change.

It's certainly a unique, albeit unconventional looking design with the twin rudders and no rudder.  It flies well enough for me at this stage, and has helped me improve greatly this year.  As far as the design, it has a sheeted foam wing with a good, modern looking, forward high point airfoil and a nicely blunt leading edge.  The rib areas are cut out and capstripped.  The twin rudders and high aspect ratio tail (6.2:1) probably are its saving graces, as the tail volume of 17.5% (105 sq.in.) is really quite low for the wing area (~600+ sq.in.), Tail Volume Coefficient ends up quite low at only around .33 TVC or less. 

10.75" nose length, (rear of prop to wing leading edge)
Stab/Elevator - 3" tip, 5.25" root, 25.5 width. 50/50 split. 105 sq.
Wing: 12.375 root chord total, (9.75" + 2.625" flap)  9.625 tip (8" + 1.625" flap)
~ approx. 19% flaps average (17% tip flap, 21% root flap)
55" span -- 5.04:1 aspect ratio -- 600 sq.
16" hingeline to hingeline
~21" tail moment arm
.33 TVC 'ish

I fly it with one of my hardpoint handle kits and a pretty narrow, 3" line spacing as the controls in the plane are quite fast.

[Brent Williams]

Very nice work on The Pattern. I know the work it entails to get it down. Then there is the quest for constant improvement.
Looks like you have some good feedback from some great flyers.
Whoooooo Buddy))))
Shug

Thanks Shug!

- Brent.

[john e. holliday]

At least you have a plane that is working for you.

[Brent Williams]

At least you have a plane that is working for you.

Indeed.

[Cody bishop]

What kind of plane is that

[Dan McEntee]

What kind of plane is that

    The airplane resembles Allen Brickhaus' Scimitar, but with a full fuselage. It was published in 1984 in M.A.N. and I think it was the last control line model that M.A.N. published. It was kitted by an outfit in Texas that Allen worked with on a few designs, Custom Models, I think? I have a kit and it had foam wings, so I think some one just added a full fuselage with the R/C engine mount, which was made popular by Ted Fancher and his Imitation, about the same time, I think??
   If you like this airplane, I would suggest sticking with it. If you can confirm what design it is, one of the guys that cuts foam wings can cut you cores, and just build another just like it. I think you can still get the plans from M.A.N. and even though the plan shows a built up wing, a foam cutter can make cores from those plans, also.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Tim Wescott]

Thanks for the good feedback Brett!  I appreciate your evaluation and kind comments.   In reviewing the flights and my style in general, I do believe that I  am not standing square to the maneuvers.  I have been trying to figure out where to place "me" and after your post and some discussion with Gordan, it looks like I have some very specific things to address.   I will try and adjust my body position next time I go fly.   Also, I will work to bring the vertical 8 and hourglass up to 12 o'clock.

For this issue, you can probably make the change and immediately do better -- but don't be surprised if the first few flights aren't as good.  Sometimes, if you've been doing something wrong for a good long time, correcting it can throw the rest of the pattern out of whack.  That's not an argument for not making necessary changes -- just for biting the bullet and powering through when you do make 'em.

[M Spencer]

Yea , enjoying the flying might come into it somewhere .

Good looking plane I think , Schafferish , and a GEO had simlar rear quaters . Id think worth staying with / evolving , if thats what you like .

You could even get a ' lost foam ' cradle set up . Though people did once build wings , in the air .Or over a plan - Lift , sight along And Wrack each way before the glue kicked off
so as the things sitting aligned with  the stresses neutral . Not leaving the wood for the trailing edge in differant places might get it so its not pulling curved .
And Pre Block Sanding sheeting  & Pre Dope a coat or two & fine ( 320 ) block it , aint a bad idea . Pre Curve L. E. taped to a 4 in down pipe . Er where were we .

The Flying is pretty good overall .

[Cody bishop]

    The airplane resembles Allen Brickhaus' Scimitar, but with a full fuselage. It was published in 1984 in M.A.N. and I think it was the last control line model that M.A.N. published. It was kitted by an outfit in Texas that Allen worked with on a few designs, Custom Models, I think? I have a kit and it had foam wings, so I think some one just added a full fuselage with the R/C engine mount, which was made popular by Ted Fancher and his Imitation, about the same time, I think??
   If you like this airplane, I would suggest sticking with it. If you can confirm what design it is, one of the guys that cuts foam wings can cut you cores, and just build another just like it. I think you can still get the plans from M.A.N. and even though the plan shows a built up wing, a foam cutter can make cores from those plans, also.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee


Thanks for the info

[Brent Williams]

The Scimitar was my first guess also, but it's not a Scimitar.  Allen's profile Scimitar is smaller overall at 560sq and has a much thinner and differently shaped airfoil, no wingtips and completely different nose length and hinge to hinge measurements.  I have the plans for both of Allen's Scimitars, the 1984 profile 560 and the full body 520 from 2006.  This plane is neither.  It also resembles Gene Schaefer's stunt machine, but that isn't this plane either. 

I would presume that this plane was probably a benchtop creation inspired by many planes.  I see some serious 70's groupthink with the high aspect ratio wide/thin stab/elevator.  Overall, it is a pretty good flying plane, but it isn't the next world beater to be cloned, renamed and/or refined.  Categorically, I can confirm that it does not fly better than either of Gordan's Pathfinders, both the profile and the L.E.  (But all of his planes are light, trimmed for serious competition and are spectacular to fly, so it's really not a fair comparison.)  I do think there is some merit in the the rudderlets on the tail, though.  Those might make it onto my next plane.

If the weather is good tomorrow, I'll see if I can get out and implement all the advice and report back.