Why not let Beginners fly 2nd or 3rd at Contests?

[Joejust]

After watching beginners try to find the proper position to launch their planes, fly their maneuvers in the proper portion of the circle,learn what the maneuvers should look like etc. I am wondering why the beginners portion of flying at a contest has to be first up. Would it not be better to have the Intermediate flyers go first? Or even the Advanced flyers be the first up?  If this were done then the pressure would decrease for the beginner, particularly the first beginner flyer of the day. He or she could then learn by observation the correct way to launch, fly the maneuvers in the right portion of the cuircle and would even give him or her a preview of what the maneuvers should look like. Doing the class rotation in this manner would not take anymore time that usual. It would not increase the number judges or paper work.  All it might do is give the beginner more help in his or her progression upward. So, what do you think?

Joe Just

[Jim Kraft]

Very good idea Joe. Here in the Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas area, the wind is generally the overiding factor. It is mostly calm early, and comes up a little later in the day. And when I say comes up, I mean COMES UP!

[Randy Powell]

Joe,

As a general rule, at least around here, the weather is better earlier in the day than later. We have often had the beginners and intermediates go first because they get the best conditions. There have been a couple of contests where this made a huge difference. The experts were flying in high wind and turbulence, but the beginners had the early flights in light winds.

That's been the contention, anyway. I suppose it's sometimes a crapshoot, but it's generally true.

[Paul Taylor]

I think if a beginner is at a contest he or she has had a little coaching and should have an idea of what pattern to fly and be aware of the wind to know where to put the plane. I am still a beginner and would perfer to go first flying in little to no wind. If you put them in the middle of the day, more planes may be lost as well as new pilots.

Make it easy on the new guys.

Paul

[Wynn Robins]

best way to learn is by doing.  Going first allows people to learn where to launch, how to find the correct downwind and position the judges.......all part of the process.

the other benefit of them going first is that the number of people at the comp will stay higher for longer - by this I mean, if the advnaced guys go first - they are hardly likely to hang around just to watch the beginners -  however - it is more likely that the beginners will hang around to watch the advanced guys - and they will learn more by doing so

[Leo Mehl]

I often wonder why people always want to change things. I feel that the reasons for setting things up this way is already been planned for the better of the flyer. I don't see any advantage to changing things. Just my obsevations.

[Mike Foley]

 

Don't fix what aint's broken.  The main event always goes last.

 

[Joejust]

Mike, my original suggestion does not change the Advancd or the Expert position at all. Those flyers would still fly at the same time they always have. Nothing would change for you at all. Advanced flyers would still fly just before the expert flyers. I guess one would have to poll the beginners to see how they feel. I realize that nothing will change, but it has been interesting to speculate.
Joe

[Tom Taylor]

I fly in the beginner classs, and would like to be able to see an advanced flyers direction as to "where to fly the maneuvers".  Of the contests that I've flown in, 4, it is helpful to have a zone the aim for.  Just my opinion.

[john e. holliday]

This is something that should be left up to the contest director.  I have been to several contests in which one ciecle is Int/Adv and Beg/Exp.  Have also seen Beg/Adv and Int/Exp.  At each one it leveling out the number of contestants on each circle as there was only two circles.  Of course I have been to contests in which there was more than two circles.  Nothing like running from circle one to circle four when helping or flying more than one event.  Of course I really appreciate the CD's that try to accomadate some of us that are in that fix.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

[Eric Viglione]

I don't think we would be doing the begginer any favors. The wind will not only get worse, but will also probably change direction by the time they get up. Best they learn to read the wind on their own. Teach a man to fish kinda thing... Besides, I've NEVER been to a contest where people aren't cranking in patterns practicing long before the first official, so there's pleanty of action to watch before their round starts.

My .02
EricV

[Paul Smith]

There isn't any set procedure for scheduling events, the local czar can do it any way he wants.

If there is only one circle and one set of judges, I'd just mix all four classes together and fly by rounds.  That way everybody in every class would have a fair share of the changing weather.

Another good way is to combine Expert and Beginner, and combine Intermediate and Advanced.  So experts can judge Int/Adv, and Advanced can judge Exp/Beg.  By "combine" I mean fly together, not compete against the other class.

[Bill Little]

Our "Local" contests (at Huntersville, NC) are run on 4 circles.  One grass, two paved, and one that is added to the end of the R/C runway.  Beginners on grass, Adv, and Expert on the two paved "dedicated" circles, and the Int. on the lower end of the runway.  It has been sorta "L" shaped to get in a fully paved area.  OTS usually is on the grass, Classic on the paved and Profile on the runway. 

One of the "dedicated" circles is used for Scale and Racing on Saturday while OTS, Classic and Profile are being flown.

All classes are going on at the same time on Sunday.

I went to Flushing Meadows back in '97 for the final contest that Joe Ortiz put on there.  ALL the classes were flown on ONE DAY!  And it was not a problem.  Plenty of flyers, too!

[James Lee]

As has been pointed out, the local weather conditions favor the earlier flyers.
Another option for the less experienced flyers, is for them to maybe ask a more experienced flyer for some advice?  It may seem daunting to a beginner to ask, but most of the 'experts' will be more than willing to share their thoughts.   They will probably get more opinions than they want!!
but watching and learning is part of the experience.
Jim 

[Crist Rigotti]

I remember my first contest in Omaha.  It was very windy and if it weren't for some great unsolicited advice from Jim, I would have crashed that day. Thanks Jim.

[Charlie Pate]

I think beginners first is best for the wind reason,But, What about One warm up flight by an advanced flyer
doing the beginner pattern to warm up the beg. contestants.
One single flight wouldn,t take long and might be the"best of both worlds".

[Bob Reeves]

I think beginners first is best for the wind reason,But, What about One warm up flight by an advanced flyer
doing the beginner pattern to warm up the beg. contestants.
One single flight wouldn,t take long and might be the"best of both worlds".

As long as you have someone fairly young that can mix patterns and still be able to remember what he is doing.. Some of us old codgers can't remember where we are much less what comes next 

[taildragger-j3]

My first STUNT competition was last spring at the Ringmaster Roundup in Houston. I had an incomplete on my first flight (about 10:00) because I pulled out of my 3rd loop right at ground level and broke my prop and bent my LG. About noon I went to a practice circle to try to do a complete pattern before my 2nd attempt, and lost my plane when the wind blew it in on me in an overhead 8. Several of the REALLY good pilots wound up getting caught in the wind that day as it continued to build. Our CD didn't segregate us by class, so I got to watch some great flights before I attempted mine. We just had to tell the judges what they were scoring before we began. I didn't see any problem with that approach.